ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: JaimeC on January 07, 2019, 08:18:55 AM
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https://electrek.co/2019/01/01/tesla-pickup-truck-drivers-supercharger-protest/
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It takes all kinds and apparently all kinds drive pickup trucks. Once or twice a year I have someone driving a pickup truck try to pass me on the inside of the lane and then try to push me into oncoming traffic. :o
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People feel threatened by EV's, just like they're threatened by all change.
You driving an EV may be your own personal choice and you may not be pushing it on anybody else.
But to them, without you ever saying anything, you're CHALLENGING their decision to get a gas guzzler. You're the "good guy" saving the planet with your ev and they're a "bad person" because they have their truck. EV's existence challenges their own life choices and priorities, and like any toddler, they lash out.
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People feel threatened by EV's, just like they're threatened by all change.
You driving an EV may be your own personal choice and you may not be pushing it on anybody else.
But to them, without you ever saying anything, you're CHALLENGING their decision to get a gas guzzler. You're the "good guy" saving the planet with your ev and they're a "bad person" because they have their truck. EV's existence challenges their own life choices and priorities, and like any toddler, they lash out.
So what is space tourism good guy or bad guy?
The comment section of that article linked in post 1 seem to answer the question in the title here to the point I will not type. Perhaps it (the article) is a divide the population type of thing. I have a F150 2013 v8 variable valve timing, traier brake controler integrated into the traction controll, towing for 9900lbs, can carry legally a ton, just the base model with crank windows.
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Call a local tow company and tell them the charge station owner has a lucrative offer for them
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Part of it, I think, is that the charging stations are generally in prime parking areas. I wish they'd put them at the far end of the parking lot, so people wouldn't be motivated to want to use them. I'll gladly walk a little farther if it helps ensure I can charge when I need to.
But I suspect what these guys are mostly saying is something along the lines of "you're not going to take MY toy away". Just like the rabid gun-nuts (and I own a handgun, so I'm not disparaging most people who own guns), they think if you're not one of them, you're the enemy.
Is "rolling coal" still a thing? Seems like it came and went pretty fast, once they realized it was just an expensive way of hurting nobody but themselves. Once a few of these guys get towed, I'm guessing it will come to an end pretty soon.
Unfortunately, that may not happen very often. Most of the parking lots with charging stations in them are privately owned, and the owners may not want to tow customers away.
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Rolling Coal is still a thing, the outrage died down but it is still going on.
Most of the reason that charging stations are close is due to electrical circuits already being present nearby.
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Most of the reason that charging stations are close is due to electrical circuits already being present nearby.
I thought about that, too, but many shopping centers have lighted signage at the far end of the parking lot, on the street. Perhaps it isn't wired for enough juice for EV charging stations, but the underground conduit is obviously in place, so it shouldn't be too difficult to pull heavier wiring. Oftentimes there's even a "free-floating" building for a bank or restaurant out in the parking lot, separate from the main concourse. I realize moving the chargers AWAY from the center of active is a subtlety that's non-obvious to the shopping center that wants to install charging stations, but it's a learning process and I think it would work out better.
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Most of the reason that charging stations are close is due to electrical circuits already being present nearby.
I thought about that, too, but many shopping centers have lighted signage at the far end of the parking lot, on the street. Perhaps it isn't wired for enough juice for EV charging stations, but the underground conduit is obviously in place, so it shouldn't be too difficult to pull heavier wiring. Oftentimes there's even a "free-floating" building for a bank or restaurant out in the parking lot, separate from the main concourse. I realize moving the chargers AWAY from the center of active is a subtlety that's non-obvious to the shopping center that wants to install charging stations, but it's a learning process and I think it would work out better.
I think that you will find that most city Planning Commissions like the idea of having EV charging parking near the store in order to encourage EV driving. It makes them feel "green". Most of the new stores that I have seen lately seem to have an EV charging station or two in their parking lot - that are not used very often and usually are ICE'ed. The Sprouts grocery store that I frequent used to have two EV charging stations near the front door of the store. They regularly got ICE'ed and a few months ago they were removed and returned to regular parking spaces.
About a year ago a free Level 2 station was installed at my former workplace, next to the motorcycle parking area. I asked one of the building inspectors if it gets used much. He said that it was only used once, by the City Attorney. Since then it has just been gathering dust.
And so it goes. ???
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It takes all kinds and apparently all kinds drive pickup trucks. Once or twice a year I have someone driving a pickup truck try to pass me on the inside of the lane and then try to push me into oncoming traffic. :o
That has happened to me too, on Hwy 101 in Belmont. Was deliberate for sure with the driver and his passenger laughing.
People like that are always young and showing off to buddies how "kool" they are. IMO, "Kool" is just another word for "stupid".
AFAIK, that BS mainly only happens in the SF Bay Area. I am glad to be out of that area.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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It takes all kinds and apparently all kinds drive pickup trucks. Once or twice a year I have someone driving a pickup truck try to pass me on the inside of the lane and then try to push me into oncoming traffic. :o
That has happened to me too, on Hwy 101 in Belmont. Was deliberate for sure with the driver and his passenger laughing.
People like that are always young and showing off to buddies how "kool" they are. IMO, "Kool" is just another word for "stupid".
AFAIK, that BS mainly only happens in the SF Bay Area. I am glad to be out of that area.
-Don- Auburn, CA
If you had a helmet cam and was able to record that you could easily charge the son of a bitch with "Attempted Murder" because that is EXACTLY what it was.
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It takes all kinds and apparently all kinds drive pickup trucks. Once or twice a year I have someone driving a pickup truck try to pass me on the inside of the lane and then try to push me into oncoming traffic. :o
That has happened to me too, on Hwy 101 in Belmont. Was deliberate for sure with the driver and his passenger laughing.
People like that are always young and showing off to buddies how "kool" they are. IMO, "Kool" is just another word for "stupid".
AFAIK, that BS mainly only happens in the SF Bay Area. I am glad to be out of that area.
-Don- Auburn, CA
If you had a helmet cam and was able to record that you could easily charge the son of a bitch with "Attempted Murder" because that is EXACTLY what it was.
No helmet cam, but I once I did have another pickup driver get behind me and block the other pickup driver from trying to tailgate me, which I did appreciate. I agree with your comment, but unless you actually are killed in a traffic accident, the cops don't seem to care all that much about "road rage" incidents, as they happen all the time around here. Almost as much as "distracted driving" and cell phone usage. >:(
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If you had a helmet cam and was able to record that you could easily charge the son of a bitch with "Attempted Murder" because that is EXACTLY what it was.
Well, when it happened to me, it was before the helmet cams existed. Besides that, I think Richard has it right unless there is an actual crash.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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If someone pulls a gun on you, that is "Assault with a deadly weapon" whether they pull the trigger or not. The same applies if someone intentionally uses a four ton vehicle to force you off the road or into oncoming traffic whether you crashed or not.
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If someone pulls a gun on you, that is "Assault with a deadly weapon" whether they pull the trigger or not. The same applies if someone intentionally uses a four ton vehicle to force you off the road or into oncoming traffic whether you crashed or not.
Sure, but that doesn't mean all laws are enforced. But if I did have a camera and could prove what happened, I would have went straight to the cops.
BTW, this happened near one of my houses (https://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Motorcycle-Crash-Closed-NB-395-at-Cold-Springs-313864671.html) near Reno. A mile from my house in Cold Springs Valley. What gets me is many are calling it an "accident" when it was an rather obvious murder (of a corrections officer) according to a couple of witnesses.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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They regularly got ICE'ed and a few months ago they were removed and returned to regular parking spaces.
EVs, especially the Tesla Model 3 are selling like hotcakes. (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/08/tesla-model-3-completely-crushing-us-luxury-car-competition-10-cleantechnica-charts/) I am hoping that they will soon have laws against those who ICE us as the EV's get more popular. I am hoping they will get tickets as large as for parking in a handicap zone.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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They regularly got ICE'ed and a few months ago they were removed and returned to regular parking spaces.
EVs, especially the Tesla Model 3 are selling like hotcakes. (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/08/tesla-model-3-completely-crushing-us-luxury-car-competition-10-cleantechnica-charts/) I am hoping that they will soon have laws against those who ICE us as the EV's get more popular. I am hoping they will get tickets as large as for parking in a handicap zone.
-Don- Auburn, CA
The problem is that many of these business-adjacent charging stations are located on private property and can only be enforced by the property or store owner and their only option is to have the vehicle towed. I have never heard of that happening as the business does not want to do anything that might offend one or more of their customers.
Of course there are also many charging stations located on public property, but those would require the state or local government to pass laws making ICE'ing illegal and subject to fines. I don't know if there are any state-wide EV parking space laws. If there are, I haven't heard about them.
At the local level you could probably be ticketed by a parking enforcement officer for violating a parking restriction sign if you have ICE'ed the space. That happened to my daughter once when she parked her SUV next to (but not at) a charging station and was given a ticket for parking in a charging station stall. It took her a few days, but she was able to get that ticket tossed out by showing the cops that there was no sign prohibiting anyone parking in the space.
Right now my feeling is that the public still isn't really all that sympathetic to EV owners who many perceive as being too wealthy and are already receiving more than their share of benefits, such as purchase rebates and access to HOV lanes for single-occupant vehicles. In fact, in California some older EVs are being kicked out of HOV lanes. Also, rebates are being reduced or eliminated, depending upon the owner's income, proof of which needs to be supplied to the agency who is issuing EV rebates.
Finally, how many other states besides California, have laws that encourage owning an electric vehicle? My guess is not too many and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Federal EV income-tax credit start fading away soon. ???
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The problem is that many of these business-adjacent charging stations are located on private property and can only be enforced by the property or store owner and their only option is to have the vehicle towed. I have never heard of that happening as the business does not want to do anything that might offend one or more of their customers.
Many years ago (at least 30 years ago) a law (in CA) was passed that so-called private property available for public use is not to be considered as private property to law enforcement and parking laws and such can be enforced on such property without anybody's permission. Such as in shopping malls, etc., where they have handicapped parking.
With the number of EV's selling lately (especially the Tesla Model 3), I don't think it will be long before there is a law on EV parking--espcally if the misuse continues.
Perhaps for now, the more we get ICEd the better so we can get such a law even faster. The more it's an issue the faster it will be solved, IMO.
Of course there are also many charging stations located on public property, but those would require the state or local government to pass laws making ICE'ing illegal and subject to fines. I don't know if there are any state-wide EV parking space laws. If there are, I haven't heard about them.
Neither have I, and I am hoping that soon gets changed.Right now my feeling is that the public still isn't really all that sympathetic to EV owners who many perceive as being too wealthy and are already receiving more than their share of benefits, such as purchase rebates and access to HOV lanes for single-occupant vehicles. In fact, in California some older EVs are being kicked out of HOV lanes. Also, rebates are being reduced or eliminated, depending upon the owner's income, proof of which needs to be supplied to the agency who is issuing EV rebates.
I think the rebates are less because now enough people will buy EV's without any rebate. If we have too many EVs in HOV lanes then it will defeat the purpose of having HOV lanes and they will be just as if they did not exist at all. In some areas, it is already getting like that and the non-HOV lanes can sometimes be faster than the HOV lane. And for the rebates, we only get back a small percentage of what we pay. For an example, I paid CA around 5K$ sales tax and also add in the CA registration fees. I get back less than half of what I paid to CA. So CA comes out way ahead. They would not have got anything from me if I didn't buy my Tesla and Zero SR in CA.
Finally, how many other states besides California, have laws that encourage owning an electric vehicle? My guess is not too many and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Federal EV income-tax credit start fading away soon. ???
Yep. In NV, where I bought my ZERO DS, I felt like I was being harassed by NOT buying an ICE vehicle. For an example, when I buy new ICE vehicles in NV, I can register them on-line. But with an EV, I must go to a "full service NV DMV" (which are always packed) and waste about a day to just get them registered for the first time. I do not know why, but in NV it's a different procedure to register an EV. They make it as difficult as possible, while ICE vehicles are made as easy as possible to register.
It's as if the State of NV DMV wants to harass EV owners.
So from now on, I will buy all my new EVs in CA. I doubt if I will buy another ICE vehicle for the rest of my life.
My Zero SR and Tesla Model 3 were both bought here in CA.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Regarding HOV lanes, what irritates me is that in California they are being turned into toll lanes for anyone who wants to drive a single-occupant vehicle in the lane and is willing to pay for it. The funds generated by that scheme go to fund the area-wide transportation agency bureaucracy. In fact, some of the recent increase in gas taxes and vehicle registration fees will be going into changing HOV lanes into toll lanes. Fortunately, motorcycles are not being charged for using these lanes, but only if they purchase a special device that will signal the toll equipment that a motorcycle is in the lane. >:(
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You don't have to put the fastrak on your motorcycle. You just need to register it.
I ride in the "Express lane" on 680 with no fastrak on my Zero regularly and I am not billed for it.
I actually never even registered the bike with Fastrak. My Volt was registered and I have the device in that car, but the first time they tried to ticket me on the bike, they realized I had an account and automatically added the Zero to the account.
The bike shows up on my statements but there are no charges unless I go through a toll plaza.
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You don't have to put the fastrak on your motorcycle. You just need to register it.
I ride in the "Express lane" on 680 with no fastrak on my Zero regularly and I am not billed for it.
I actually never even registered the bike with Fastrak. My Volt was registered and I have the device in that car, but the first time they tried to ticket me on the bike, they realized I had an account and automatically added the Zero to the account.
The bike shows up on my statements but there are no charges unless I go through a toll plaza.
I thought any motorcycle was allowed in the HOV lanes nationwide. Has that changed?
If there has been a change, how come I have not yet been busted for using such lanes?
And how are the bikes detected? How does it show up on your Fastrak statement if the Fastrack is not even on the bike?
And automatically add? Something else new? I do have a few FastTrack accounts as when I got mine they were only good for four vehicles each and I have always been over that. Of course, only one is needed if it can be moved between vehicles and be detected every time, but I only had mine for the bridge tolls. But I have not been over any SF Bay Area bridges for a couple of years.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Yall need to start a WTF is wrong with CA thread. ;D
The one nice thing was they allowed lane splitting so just make your own lane.
They had to go to court and vote out a few people here in GA to get them to shut down a toll operation after it had paid for the road but they liked the money and kept it going. We have a HOV lane for 2 or more people, motorcycles and any EV with an EV plate. There is a pay for use lane in sections but EVs are free for that too.
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Yall need to start a WTF is wrong with CA thread. ;D
It would be a much shorter thread if it were a thread for what is NOT wrong with CA. :)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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You don't have to put the fastrak on your motorcycle. You just need to register it.
I ride in the "Express lane" on 680 with no fastrak on my Zero regularly and I am not billed for it.
I actually never even registered the bike with Fastrak. My Volt was registered and I have the device in that car, but the first time they tried to ticket me on the bike, they realized I had an account and automatically added the Zero to the account.
The bike shows up on my statements but there are no charges unless I go through a toll plaza.
I thought any motorcycle was allowed in the HOV lanes nationwide. Has that changed?
If there has been a change, how come I have not yet been busted for using such lanes?
And how are the bikes detected? How does it show up on your Fastrak statement if the Fastrack is not even on the bike?
And automatically add? Something else new? I do have a few FastTrack accounts as when I got mine they were only good for four vehicles each and I have always been over that. Of course, only one is needed if it can be moved between vehicles and be detected every time, but I only had mine for the bridge tolls. But I have not been over any SF Bay Area bridges for a couple of years.
-Don- Auburn, CA
That was true until some HOV lanes were converted to toll (AKA Lexus) lanes. I recently turned in my FastTrack responder for a new
FastTrack "Flex" pass device. It has a switch that if you are riding a motorcycle you need to switch to #3. When you do that you will not be billed for riding in the HOV/toll lane. But if you do not have a "Flex" pass, or set the switch to #1 or #2, you will be sent a bill for riding in the HOV lane, just as if you were a single occupant of a car driving in the lane. >:(
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I thought any motorcycle was allowed in the HOV lanes nationwide. Has that changed?
If there has been a change, how come I have not yet been busted for using such lanes?
And how are the bikes detected? How does it show up on your Fastrak statement if the Fastrack is not even on the bike?
And automatically add? Something else new? I do have a few FastTrack accounts as when I got mine they were only good for four vehicles each and I have always been over that. Of course, only one is needed if it can be moved between vehicles and be detected every time, but I only had mine for the bridge tolls. But I have not been over any SF Bay Area bridges for a couple of years.
-Don- Auburn, CA
These express lanes have cameras in order to catch cars trying to cheat the system. So with no fastrak they take a picture of your vehicle, read the license plate, and attempt to ticket you. I got an email from fastrak saying a new vehicle had been automatically added to my account, showing me the license plate and asking me to contact them if this was incorrect.
I've continued to ride in the express lanes with no issues on the bike.
Before this I only had 1 car registered on my fastrak account, my volt, which has the described transponder on it set to 3. I was unaware 4 was the max # of vehicles.
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According to published news reports regarding the "express" lanes, motorcycles will be sent a bill for riding the the lane if they do not have a Flex pass set to #3. So far I haven't heard for sure if this is true or not. If it is true, there are going to be some unhappy out-of-state riders who have never heard of "express" lanes when they get a bill for riding in an HOV lane that they thought was free for motorcycle riders. ???
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From Fastrak's FAQ:
Do I need a FasTrak toll tag if I'm a carpool, vanpool, motorcycle or other toll-exempt vehicle?
The requirement for carpools, vanpools, motorcycles, and other toll-exempt vehicles to have a FasTrak toll tag is set by the express lane operator.
SR-237 and I-680 Sunol express lanes
A FasTrak toll tag is not required. If you have a FasTrak toll tag, put it in the Mylar bag that it came with to avoid the roadside equipment from reading it and charging you a toll. It is important to make sure that after your toll-free trip, you properly re-install your toll tag onto your windshield. If you have a FasTrak Flex toll tag, set it in the proper 2 or 3+ position prior to starting your trip.
I-580 and I-680 Contra Costa express lanes
A special FasTrak toll tag is required to qualify for toll-free travel. This toll tag, called the FasTrak Flex toll tag, has a switch on the face of the tag that must be set in the 2 or 3+ position for the roadside equipment to register the vehicle as a toll-free vehicle. Use the 2 position if there are 2 people in the vehicle. Use the 3+ position if there are 3 or more people in the vehicle. Vanpools, motorcycles and eligible clean air vehicles should also use the 3+ position.
So it seems that as soon as I cross into Contra Costa on the same freeway, I do need the tag, but in Sunol I do not. What a simple and user-friendly system!
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According to published news reports regarding the "express" lanes, motorcycles will be sent a bill for riding the the lane if they do not have a Flex pass set to #3. So far I haven't heard for sure if this is true or not. If it is true, there are going to be some unhappy out-of-state riders who have never heard of "express" lanes when they get a bill for riding in an HOV lane that they thought was free for motorcycle riders. ???
Sounds like CA had a decent system and now they changed it so they can make more money to fund more nonsense or whatever.
So what are the diamond lanes just east of Sacramento on I-80? I ride them all the time with my bikes, all but one with a NV plate and none have a tie to any of my fast-tracts, which I have not used in years.
So far, I have received no notices. Or do they ignore out of state plates? Is it only CA that has these rather complicated lanes where they sometimes change the rules? If so, how do they deal with out of state drivers who won't know this stuff?
Do the cameras pick up motorcycle license plates all that well?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Last year when heading down to Daytona Beach for Bike Week I noticed that there were EZ-Pass readers along the HOV lanes around Washington, DC. I didn't see any charges on my bill the next month but I suspect they are doing something similar to California.
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According to published news reports regarding the "express" lanes, motorcycles will be sent a bill for riding the the lane if they do not have a Flex pass set to #3. So far I haven't heard for sure if this is true or not. If it is true, there are going to be some unhappy out-of-state riders who have never heard of "express" lanes when they get a bill for riding in an HOV lane that they thought was free for motorcycle riders. ???
Sounds like CA had a decent system and now they changed it so they can make more money to fund more nonsense or whatever.
So what are the diamond lanes just east of Sacramento on I-80? I ride them all the time with my bikes, all but one with a NV plate and none have a tie to any of my fast-tracts, which I have not used in years.
So far, I have received no notices. Or do they ignore out of state plates? Is it only CA that has these rather complicated lanes where they sometimes change the rules? If so, how do they deal with out of state drivers who won't know this stuff?
Do the cameras pick up motorcycle license plates all that well?
-Don- Auburn, CA
Most diamond lanes have not yet been changed to toll lanes. However, you will find them on some Bay Area freeways, like I-580, near Livermore, that have heavy commutes. And more are planned. They give you plenty of warning when you are in a toll lane. There are lots of signs, extra striping and large overhead signs that will tell you the price at the time for traveling in the lanes. This price changes all the time, depending upon the amount of traffic on the freeway, but it is never free, except during weekends and maybe holidays.
The cameras have no problem picking up motorcycle license plates, but apparently they just read the plate and automatically send out a bill without being able to differentiate between a car and a motorcycle. (Or maybe they just don't care. :( )
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Most diamond lanes have not yet been changed to toll lanes. However, you will find them on some Bay Area freeways, like I-580, near Livermore, that have heavy commutes.
Thanks for the info. I will be passing through Livermore this Saturday, So I will then be able to see it for myself.
I will be headed to San Jose via Livermore from here.
And how long have the toll lanes been there? It's been years since I was in that area.
I take it that motorcycles are still allowed free in the diamond lanes everywhere.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Most diamond lanes have not yet been changed to toll lanes. However, you will find them on some Bay Area freeways, like I-580, near Livermore, that have heavy commutes.
Thanks for the info. I will be passing through Livermore this Saturday, So I will then be able to see it for myself.
I will be headed to San Jose via Livermore from here.
And how long have the toll lanes been there? It's been years since I was in that area.
I take it that motorcycles are still allowed free in the diamond lanes everywhere.
-Don- Auburn, CA
The toll lanes started appearing in the Bay Area a couple of years ago. They turned out to be a big money-maker for the Regional Transportation Authority bureaucracy, that they are rushing to build more. The voters just approved a large gas tax and vehicle registration increase to repair highways and part of that money is going to convert HOV lanes to toll lanes. In San Mateo County a 1% sales tax was approved (the third one since 2003) to fund road and transportation improvements. A good portion of those funds will be going to help the local bus company pay back BART for building a transit station in Millbrae and to also build an HOV/toll lane from Mountain View to I-380 in San Bruno. Our gas taxes at work. >:(
Motorcycles are allowed to use all marked HOV lanes for free and at any time (just check the posted signs in the median island along the left of the HOV lanes for proof of this (watch out behind you for up and coming "fast movers" who think the HOV lanes are a race track). However, if you come across an HOV toll lane, then you need a new Flex pass set to #3 to ride in that lane for free. So when riding in an HOV lane that turns into a toll lane and you don't have a pass, move over into the poor peoples' lanes, unless the toll lane's big sign says that the toll is free that day.
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Again, you don't need to have the fastrak flex on the carpool lane closer to sunol. The lane right after Walnut Creek is going to need a flex, but the sunol one doesn't require it.
Be careful in these lanes. Like Richard said, there are fast drivers here. The "normal" speed for these lanes is often 80+mph and there are typically people moving at 90+mph weaving their way through.
Also be aware that if you're splitting between 1 and 2 on 680 there is a large section of it with a huge crack right on the lane divider. The mix of that and 680 drivers not being particularly motorcycle friendly can make splitting tricky. In general 680 is not a very well paved highway and the road condition varies a lot.
My commute typically takes me on 24 then over the bay bridge and on 680 to san jose and it's a night and day difference, 24 is much friendlier.
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You're the "good guy" saving the planet with your ev and they're a "bad person" because they have their truck.
This environmental narrative has to die in order for the movement to take hold. We need to take a "it makes you resilient and able to stand alone" route, up and down the board. They're cheaper (long term, anyone whose dropped $1k at 80-100k miles on a timing belt or $5k for a used engine because it snapped is an easy sale), faster (bring it, Suzuki squid), and better in driving dynamics. Of all the things I talk about when discussing my fleet of 4 EVs (2 person household), air pollution is never mentioned because it turns most people off (and I'm tired of explaining how lithium desalination is less harmful than strip mining cat litter or copper).
I'm not buying gas, I don't deal with oil changes or a clutch (in case of the moto), and the solar array on the roof sticks the finger to the electric company. NO motorized vehicle is actually good for the environment. Nothing in our modern life is, really (at least in the US).
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kcfoxie I totally agree, the environmental narrative isn't helpful, it creates conflict where there doesn't need to be any.
Selling the EV lifestyle on cost and convenience is much more effective long term, though with the current high entry prices the cost part takes a lot of convincing.
I brought it up in my post because it's how a lot of people think, not because I think it myself.
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Be careful in these lanes. Like Richard said, there are fast drivers here. The "normal" speed for these lanes is often 80+mph and there are typically people moving at 90+mph weaving their way through.
Are speed limit laws enforced in these lanes?
Anyway, I saw the toll lanes near Tracy last week. First time I have seen such. I have not been in that area for years.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Be careful in these lanes. Like Richard said, there are fast drivers here. The "normal" speed for these lanes is often 80+mph and there are typically people moving at 90+mph weaving their way through.
Are speed limit laws enforced in these lanes?
Anyway, I saw the toll lanes near Tracy last week. First time I have seen such. I have not been in that area for years.
-Don- Reno, NV
Yes, speed limits are enforced in the toll lanes. However, there are a lot more speeders than there are cops to pull them over.
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Now to get back on subject . . .
I recently discovered some of the reasons why there are so many EV haters by the ICEers.
One reason is that roads are funded by gasoline tax and us in EVs do not contribute to fixing the roads regardless of the weight of our EVs and etc. We do not pay our fair share towards the roads.
Another is the rebates we often get. That is taking away money from those who own ICE vehicles and giving it to us EV owners.
Another is that we may have access to HOV lanes as a single driver, yet we pay less for the roads than others who cannot get such access.
So what are some of the other reasons for hating us EV owners?
And should anything be done about it?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Don, California, and I believe Oregon and Washington, have adopted fees meant to recoup road maintenance costs from EV owners. In California, starting this year, EV owners will be paying an additional flat $100 each year on top of their usual expensive vehicle registration fee each year. Needless to say I am not happy about that as someone who owns a low-mileage electric motorcycle ends up paying the same fee per year as someone who owns a Tesla and drives 10 or 20 times the mileage each year as I do. Plus, their vehicle weighs about 15 times the weight of my Zero.
Apparently, Zero did not try to convince our legislators to give electric motorcycles a break because there are so few of us, our impact on public roads is pretty much zero, here are so few of us using the highways - and we don't make noise while riding through their neighborhoods. Unfortunately, that is how fees work when it comes to motorcycles. As an obvious example we tend to pay the same fees as cars and light trucks when crossing toll bridges. And so it goes in the halls of government. :(
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Richard Ga has you beat. I get to pay $213 for each of my Zeros and I called and complained to my state senator who agreed it shouldn't be the same for motorcycles as cars but I guess since I didn't say I'd like to give a donation he never did do anything.
I did the math and if it had been a gas bike I would have paid $32 in GA gas tax based on my mileage.
So WTF is wrong with government? :)
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Richard Ga has you beat. I get to pay $213 for each of my Zeros and I called and complained to my state senator who agreed it shouldn't be the same for motorcycles as cars but I guess since I didn't say I'd like to give a donation he never did do anything.
I did the math and if it had been a gas bike I would have paid $32 in GA gas tax based on my mileage.
So WTF is wrong with government? :)
What is wrong? Not enough money to buy the best government. ::)
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Don, California, and I believe Oregon and Washington, have adopted fees meant to recoup road maintenance costs from EV owners. In California, starting this year, EV owners will be paying an additional flat $100 each year on top of their usual expensive vehicle registration fee each year. Needless to say I am not happy about that as someone who owns a low-mileage electric motorcycle ends up paying the same fee per year as someone who owns a Tesla and drives 10 or 20 times the mileage each year as I do. Plus, their vehicle weighs about 15 times the weight of my Zero.
NV has a bill in now to do the same, so I guess that will be the norm across the country as EVs get more popular.
Yeah, ICE motorcycles use less gas than ICE cars, but also weight a lot less. IMO, likewise, the EV tax should be less on motorcycles than on heavier vehicles.
Other than that, I have no real problem with the road tax on EVs. The money to repair roads must come from somewhere, espcally when most vehicles on the road could be EVs in the future.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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We're a bit off topic for this thread but it's interesting so I'm rolling with it.
I had been thinking of some other factors tied into the gas tax. Besides the road wear and tear for ICE cars there is the extra wear from the big super heavy rigs that bring the gas to the station. I see parts of the road like stop lights and signs where cars sit and drip oil and other fluids and it brakes down the tar in the road resulting in more pot holes.
I wonder how long would a road last if all cars were EV with no fluids to drip.
Money saved.
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We don't have to worry about backlash in Alberta, since most of our electricity is powered by dirty coal anyway. So I tend to stress the fact that the bike is a blast to ride. And apparently there's a Tesla in the province with a license plate that says "coalpwr"
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I was just in Your Fine Country, but at the other end, British Columbia, to pick up a Trail Tail.
No need to regale you with tales of high cold mountain passes, so cold they hit zero on the Old F Scale.
But what's on topic, your topic, quixotic, is power.
Rest areas and downtowns had 48A J1772 plugs and Chademo and CCS!
Free!
All branded BC Hydro and some Greenlots. (I actually tried to sign in to greenlots, which I'd never actually used, to activate a station, only to find that the vehicle was already charging)
(By the way, shamefully to say that I actually used an enclosed vehicle for this trip, but it was like 2000 miles to be accomplished in 4 days, and the first six weeks of the year have been slow on carshare, so the of.net/RED3 tesla was available.)
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> ... And apparently there's a Tesla in the province with a license plate that says "coalpwr"
Haha. CLEANISH was taken?