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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Richard230 on October 24, 2018, 08:25:28 PM
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Motorcycle Consumer News has performed another DSR test, which is published in their November 2019 issue - complete with a full-page cover photo. Unfortunately, I was not too impressed with their evaluation of the Zero. They mention that their 14.4 kWh test bike had the "Charge Tank", but really didn't mention using it during their testing. Apparently they performed all of their recharging using the 120V charger. ???
They were disappointed with the range of their DSR and stated that it only traveled 130 miles in ECO mode while slowly "tooling around town". ??? And they complained several times about the battery overheating and shutting down the power. They said that when the battery went over 280 degrees they started receiving temperature warnings and when the battery hit "300 degrees the bike went into limp mode and shut off all throttle response". They also said that "Once hot, the air-cooled battery simply doesn't cool down fast enough."
They complained that the DSR was not acceptable for technical off-road riding, since it was too heavy for that use, saying that: "It's not built to be dirt bike-nimble, so getting stuck on a hill, horsing it out of the mud, or picking it up all require exhaustive effort."
They thought the brakes were OK, but they would have preferred to have the option to shut down the ABS. Stops were a bit long, taking 132 feet to stop from 60 mph. They liked the riding position and the instruments and controls, although they felt the seat was a bit too high.
The testers complained that they were unable to connect to the bike's computer using the Bluetooth paring process and they were never able to change performance parameters, which would "always default back to stock." ???
They commented that: " Zero is constantly tweaking and updated the firmware to optimize performance, and users should now be able to update the software directly via the app, but the execution leaves something to be desired. This type of advanced configuration is welcomed and if marketed to consumers should be both simple and functional, but was neither."
MCN liked the bike's performance which they said compared favorably with the Ducati Desert Sled, which was also reviewed in that issue of their magazine. They complained about the high price ($18, 290 as tested), but liked the long-term low maintenance cost.
Unfortunately, unlike previous Zero tests that MCN has published, there was no dyno curve for the bike. The bike's weight is stated as being 450 pounds. Routine service is estimated as being $72.50 and belt replacement would total $180, according to the magazine. 0-60 time was measured at 4.1 seconds and the 1/4 mile was covered in 13.15 seconds at 101 mph. When the speedometer was showing 65 mph, the actual speed was 62 mph. Their "Evaluation" section gave the DSR high marks (4 or 5 "dots"), except in the area of "Attention to Detail".
The magazine liked the "Crazy launch" the "Low operating cost" and the "Near-zero noise". They didn't like that the DSR was "Heavy", "Not really a dual-sport" and its "Range and charge time" (again no mention of them using the installed Charge Tank. ??? ).
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How the hell did they run the temperatures up that high??? I've been in 95+ in stalled traffic and NEVER saw temperatures anywhere near that on my S.
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How the hell did they run the temperatures up that high??? I've been in 95+ in stalled traffic and NEVER saw temperatures anywhere near that on my S.
Probably they don't drive normal.
They test it untill the breakpoint of the bikes.
Only this way it's possible to notice any flaws of a bike in a short time.
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They said they rode it very hard.
Single front rotor is not really enough for a moto that fast and heavy. The tires may have contributed.
Weighed 450 lbs. Zero doesn’t publish the charge tank weight, but it must be pretty porky.
They never got the blue tooth to work, so no custom mode, which is a shame because that’s a great thing to play around with.
MCN was revised not too long ago, decontented, more tabloid, much less thorough testing, weaker editing. MCN lite. I’m close to letting my subscription go.
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What I didn't understand is that they said that they couldn't pair the Bluetooth with their bike and then went on to mention that the custom setting reverted back to stock. If they couldn't pair the Zero app to their bike, how did they know that the custom setting reverted back to stock (presumably after they set it to something other than "stock")? ???
I have to agree that MCN is not what it used to be. The editors seem to be getting sloppy and just don't have the dedication of the previous editors. However my subscription runs for several more years, so I guess I will stick with the magazine and hope that new editors come along some day.
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What I didn't understand is that they said that they couldn't pair the Bluetooth with their bike and then went on to mention that the custom setting reverted back to stock. If they couldn't pair the Zero app to their bike, how did they know that the custom setting reverted back to stock (presumably after they set it to something other than "stock")? ???
I have to agree that MCN is not what it used to be. The editors seem to be getting sloppy and just don't have the dedication of the previous editors. However my subscription runs for several more years, so I guess I will stick with the magazine and hope that new editors come along some day.
The "demo mode" in App is likely a source of confusion. Also there's a sometimes-bug where values set by the App for custom mode (when it is in fact paired) will get corrupted on their way to the bike's saved settings... I've observed this personally but the mechanism is just speculation.
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Did they mention how they read battery temps? 300F sounds ridiculous
Even if they messed up and meant motor temperature readings on the instrument cluster, my summer AZ ride got to almost 160F during some freeway stretch, and I thought that was getting hot - bike did fine without temp warnings.
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Did they mention how they read battery temps? 300F sounds ridiculous
Even if they messed up and meant motor temperature readings on the instrument cluster, my summer AZ ride got to almost 160F during some freeway stretch, and I thought that was getting hot - bike did fine without temp warnings.
Thank you. That is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make. This review is SERIOUSLY flawed.
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Did they mention how they read battery temps? 300F sounds ridiculous
Even if they messed up and meant motor temperature readings on the instrument cluster, my summer AZ ride got to almost 160F during some freeway stretch, and I thought that was getting hot - bike did fine without temp warnings.
I kind of wondered about that too. ??? But apparently there is a version of the Zero app that I don't have that will measure battery temperature, as high battery temperatures have been discussed several times in posts during the past month. I would think that if the motor hit 300 degrees it would practically melt down ::). I know that the DSR has the high temperature magnets in the motor, but the standard S starts blinking red when the motor temperature hits 212 degrees, if I recall correctly. Maybe someone else knows more about high battery and motor temperatures than I do and can comment regarding when warning lights first start to come on and when they shut down the fun for the "R" models. ???
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Current version of the Android app is capable of showing all three temps, though it doesn't on the default screen. I have my riding screen customized to show me all three.
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Current version of the Android app is capable of showing all three temps, though it doesn't on the default screen. I have my riding screen customized to show me all three.
That's exactly what I have on mine and like I said, I've never seen temperatures getting anywhere NEAR 300F. I've never even seen 200F. Where did they test, Death Valley in August???
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Current version of the Android app is capable of showing all three temps, though it doesn't on the default screen. I have my riding screen customized to show me all three.
That's exactly what I have on mine and like I said, I've never seen temperatures getting anywhere NEAR 300F. I've never even seen 200F. Where did they test, Death Valley in August???
More likely LA in August. I hear that Global Warming has been pretty active there lately. ;) Either that, or their Zero had a sensor glitch. ??? You know how those "glitches" can be. ::)
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I don't have access to the article, but Richard mentioned that they complained they couldn't connect via bluetooth. If that's the case, then they wouldn't be able to read the battery temperature. It's a lot of assuming, but I assume they meant motor temperature, since that's the only one that you can read on the dash. At least for 2016, the motor temperature warning light would come on at 212F, not 283. The battery was protected at 140F.
One of the most effective ways to heat up the motor is to do repeated sprints - like 0-60, stop, repeat. The reports I've read of battery heating comes from fast charging and cruising at fast speed.
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Current version of the Android app is capable of showing all three temps, though it doesn't on the default screen. I have my riding screen customized to show me all three.
That's exactly what I have on mine and like I said, I've never seen temperatures getting anywhere NEAR 300F. I've never even seen 200F. Where did they test, Death Valley in August???
More likely LA in August. I hear that Global Warming has been pretty active there lately. ;) Either that, or their Zero had a sensor glitch. ??? You know how those "glitches" can be. ::)
Maybe they rode directly into those wildfires that are happening out there...
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For their December 2018 issue, Motorcycle Consumer News tossed their 2018 Zero SR with Charge Tank to Moshe K. Levy, who lives in New Jersey and commutes every day to work a round trip distance of 107 miles.
The article is three pages long, so I will make a quick summary of his comments regarding the Zero as a long-distance daily commuter. Mr. Levy normally rides a 2015 BMW R1200RT to work and back and he says that the his cost to do so runs $7.89 per day ($3.49 a gallon and 37.4 MPG) for fuel, while the Zero ended up costing $1.36 per day (@ $0.09 kWh) in electrical charges. The Zero used 15.12 kWh each day during his commute. While his calculations are very simplified, he figures that during 12K miles of riding he could be saving $1,271.75 in both energy and servicing costs, compared with riding his BMW over the same distance and servicing both bikes at a dealership in accordance with their manufacturer's recommendations.
But rest of the article goes into depth regarding "thermal management". He complains about the motor overheating when riding continuously at high speeds and the battery also overheating during his usage in hot weather. He says that his battery temperature typically ranged between 114 to 118 degrees F. He goes on to say that when the battery temperature hits 122 degrees F, the pack will not accept a charge until the temperature of the cells drops to 118 degrees F. He states that: "On one 89-degree day, I arrived at work with 119 F battery temperature, parked in the shade and proceeded to charge on 120VAC. The battery hit the 122 F threshold within a few hours, and wouldn't accept a charge for about three hours afterward, when the battery cooled off."
The author goes on to say: "This Zero is quite a comfortable and capable machine, but until this issue is rectified, it's surely better suited to more urban assignments than the prolonged highway speed conditions tested here. We have high hopes that this thermal management issue will be addressed."
The article concludes with this statement: "Zero has made great strides in both range and features in the last decade, and we'd like to see the SR battery's thermal management brought up to snuff, at which point it could revolutionize mega-commuting!"
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Just a little troubling to hear about battery over heating from a few people now.
BenSwing had issues with his big summer tour fast charging with an already hot battery.
I never did see a post saying if it got fixed or not.
New types of cells not handling heat?
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Just a little troubling to hear about battery over heating from a few people now.
BenSwing had issues with his big summer tour fast charging with an already hot battery.
I never did see a post saying if it got fixed or not.
New types of cells not handling heat?
The article commented that the BMW C-Evolution that they tested never suffered overheating, even when traveling continuously at its top speed of 80 mph and presumably charging using its 240V system. Then they mentioned that the scooter battery pack has a channel running down the middle and a fan that would stay on while the pack was charging and even afterward until its batteries cooled off below a certain temperature. So it sounds like you can still deal with battery temperature without having to resort to a liquid cooling system. ;)
Kind of reminds me of my friend's Buell when he turns it off after a ride. ;)
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Someday we e-moto fans will look back on this as a nail in the coffin or a wake up call to Zero. Maybe Zero is emphasizing light weight and small volume so much that the battery overheating problem is inevitable, or maybe just needs some more engineering.
BMW reversed engineered their scooter from their e cars. They knew overheating had to be dealt with so they use liquid cooling, IIRC.
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Well I wish Ben would have posted if he found the reason for the high heating, but I'm not going to join FB to talk about it.
He had made long trips with Elcon chargers and his MY14 battery so there were two differences to his last trip. The 14.4 kWh battery and his chargers going dub J1772.
I looked for a while today but couldn't find a picture of the old Mission battery front which had a
"t" set of air channels through the bricks to at least get air moving around all sides of the battery while riding. Not perfect but better than a closed case.
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In addition to the air channel, fins on the electronics cases, and cooling fan for the battery pack, the motor and power electronics are liquid cooled on the BMW C Evolution. I wonder if the drive components themselves are contributing to the heat build up in the Zero battery packs.