ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: potboiler on October 05, 2018, 05:20:12 PM
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I have never ridden an electric bike but can see myself getting one very soon. I am wondering what is happening when you stop on a hill - can you hold the bike by giving a just little power to the motor -like when you slip the clutch on an ICE? Is there a danger of burning out the motor by not applying enough throttle to take up drive to move the bike forward?
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I suppose you can, but to me, the point of clutch holding when stopped on a hill was to avoid the risk of interim backroll when making the transition from brakes to clutch+gas. Given that, on an electric, you just release the brake as you twist the throttle, I don't see a useful benefit of using this tactic. It would seem more about just continuing a riding habit rather than doing so out of need.
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What ashnazg said, you can just keep your rear break engaged a little to prevent you from rolling back while you ease the throttle open.
Also I clearly remember reading somewhere (in my Zero's manual or somewhere on this forum??) that a powered stop like you've suggested can be damaging to the electric motor in the long run.
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TheGap is right Zero says don't do that.
But you never need to. Potboiler that's the beauty of electric, no stalls ever! Your left foot is free to do whatever.
On steep hill stops I put my left foot down, pivot the bike with my right foot on the peg and toe the rear brake. You have all your torque at 0 RPMs so there is no reving up or clutch needed.
You should set up a test ride, it really is a whole new ride.
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Thanks, that makes sense. I think what I am hoping for is the extra stability that you get by putting both feet on the ground on a hill stop. A left hand brake lever would offer this - like on most scooters and some Honda DCT bikes. I see zero offer a parking handbrake - I wonder if this is strong enough for hillstart assistance?
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+1, you shouldn't do that (not sure why, but I go with the factory on this matter), but you don't need to either.
That "full torque at all times, even 0 rpm" thing is really remarkable, and as NEW2elec says, it's a total game changer. If you ever trailer the bike, just a tiny bit of throttle will allow you to walk the bike up the ramp without any effort at all, under total control. The more you ride, the more you appreciate it, and the more you realize how much we've compromised all these years because ICE's have such a narrow torque band.
P.S. apparently you posted just before I did. I don't use the rear brake in situations like that, I just hold the front brake with a couple of fingers as I start to rotate the throttle. The throttle response is so smooth and linear it's no problem at all. Starts are difficult with an ICE, much less so with an EV.
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I don't use the rear brake in situations like that, I just hold the front brake with a couple of fingers as I start to rotate the throttle. The throttle response is so smooth and linear it's no problem at all. Starts are difficult with an ICE, much less so with an EV.
This is what I do now too. While getting comfortable with having an electric motor, use the rear brake to hold the bike and practice rolling tiny amounts of throttle until you feel the slack taken up in the belt. Ease off the rear brake and SLOWLY add more throttle until the rear is hooked up and rolling. Keep on launching this way until you're comfortable with applying the throttle. Eventually you can use the front brake instead of the rear to do everything with one hand.
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While getting used to this, remember to practice on Eco rather than Sport mode. In fact you can always use the app to set up a Custom profile that has Throttle Limit to, say, 30% (instead of Eco's 40%) so that you can get used to slow speed maneuvering and then go back to Eco once you have got the hang of it.
I have a DS 11kW and spent a little while practicing hill starts on a modest slope, initially on the rear brake too.
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Holding the throttle open at a stop puts current and heat into the motor while it's not moving, so it heats everything up inside the motor quickly.
It's very easy to just roll from the brake lever to the throttle nearly continuously, so I've never had a problem with this method even on San Francisco's famously steepest hills.
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On hills I always two finger the brake with both feet down. Then I simply roll throttle and I'm off. Never a stalling problem or shaky start. Electric instant torque rules!
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One of the WORST habits I've seen is people stopping with both feet flat on the ground. I think this is the reason so many people (and I'll exclude novice riders here) look for bikes they can flatfoot. This is NOT the way to stop and remain stopped on a motorcycle!
PLEASE practice coming to a stop leaving your right foot on the brake and your left foot SOLIDLY on the ground. Unless you are a short person riding a tall adventure bike, this should be pretty easy for just about anybody. Practice on flat, level ground first. Then practice on inclines.
This is even easier on a Zero because you don't have to worry about slipping a clutch to get moving again... just roll the throttle as you ease off the brake pedal. This is even easier because your right hand is ONLY rolling the throttle and NOT also trying to hold the bike in place with the front brake.
PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE and it will become second nature.
BTW, holding the bike on a hill by using the motor is a good way to burn out your motor in record time. The owner's manual even specifically tells you NOT to do that.
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Potboiler, I suspect by "extra stability", you mean you would like to eliminate that awkward moment of footwork/handwork/balance required to start a gas bike on a hill without stalling or falling over. The e-bike largely removes that problem, as well as the couple of foot swaps required if the gas bike is taken out of gear.
That said, use your rear brake to hold the bike on an uphill and front brake to hold it on a downhill. Just as the front wheel is often quoted at 70% of the traction for stopping forward motion, the back wheel has most of the traction for stopping backward motion. Stopping with the front brake on a steep uphill is a slippery prospect, especially when wet or sandy.
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One of the WORST habits I've seen is people stopping with both feet flat on the ground. I think this is the reason so many people (and I'll exclude novice riders here) look for bikes they can flatfoot. This is NOT the way to stop and remain stopped on a motorcycle!
Exactly.
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When I stop at traffic lights, I will often put the bike in neutral and put both feet down, as it is more comfortable than sitting with one leg up. There are a LOT of traffic lights in London!
Also it means if a sudden gust of wind happens I don't get pushed over. I am also a proponent of the "Hendon Shuffle".
This is a good read.....
http://www.survivalskills.co.uk/riding_skills_43.htm
Edit. DSA is Driving Standards Agency (government department)
IAM is Institute of Advanced Motorcyclist
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That can't be so difficult... After 33 years not driving a motorcycle (last ride was the successful license exam) I just sat on the Zero and rode. No practice or whatever...
Edit: Stopping like this: Left foot on ground, right foot presses rear break. Hands are free for whatever.
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Potboiler, I suspect by "extra stability", you mean you would like to eliminate that awkward moment of footwork/handwork/balance required to start a gas bike on a hill without stalling or falling over. The e-bike largely removes that problem, as well as the couple of foot swaps required if the gas bike is taken out of gear.
That said, use your rear brake to hold the bike on an uphill and front brake to hold it on a downhill. Just as the front wheel is often quoted at 70% of the traction for stopping forward motion, the back wheel has most of the traction for stopping backward motion. Stopping with the front brake on a steep uphill is a slippery prospect, especially when wet or sandy.
One reason I installed a rear brake left-hand lever. There is a 30-40 degree grassy slope leading up to my back gate and if I have to stop using the front brake it just slides backwards (really scary!) Also, I can stop with either foot down at an intersection, depending on which is more stable (5'8" with short legs on an FX). The rear brake is much more effective and I have finer control using hand rather than foot. My foot pedal mechanism is completely removed now and I am much happier riding it like this. I suppose it helps that my previous bike was a Honda Silverwing scooter.