ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: Richard230 on July 15, 2018, 04:50:26 AM
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I think you will find a number of items in this interview with Sam Paschel, Zero's new CEO, to be interesting. It sounds like Mr. Paschel is doing everything he can to promote electric motorcycles and to move Zero into a stable future:
https://thevintagent.com/2018/07/13/the-current-exclusive-interview-with-zero-ceo-sam-paschel/
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Richard, thanks!
I find the interview disappointing in the sense that it doesn't talk about product directions at all.
All the rest is pretty much expected: They need to focus on dealers, and fleets are not a huge factor.
They'll continue to work on drivetrain, but no word on fairings or solving the big charging issue (and no, no offense to DigiNow, spending $4K on a 3d-party solution by a 2-person startup to get 10kW isn't a solution). Also no mention of their quality or customer communications issues.
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I think all of Zero's CEOs have been more focused on politics and the big EV picture and less on the design of their future models. I believe that they leave that kind of stuff to their engineering management staff. Plus, as a company, Zero has always seemed to be reluctant to give any hint of the direction (or lack thereof) that they might take in the future when it comes to their product designs.
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Electric motorcycle companies with existing products have stuck with the strategy of secrecy until imminent product announcements to avoid undermining their sales, since the vehicle changes always depreciate their inventory instantly or nearly so.
And for the public at large, these companies fight for the industry to survive often enough, facing regulations and incentive structures that make growth difficult. So he's not wrong to talk about that.
But they should start speaking to quality or communications soon. I think they mean to.
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the big charging issue (and no, no offense to DigiNow, spending $4K on a 3d-party solution by a 2-person startup to get 10kW isn't a solution).
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That's the point they are missing at Zero.
If 2 persons can make something almost any current owner will like to have on their Zero.
Why not make it at least available, or join/take over Diginow even better?
The new solution instead of standard bellypan 3,3 or 6,6 or 9,9kW is.... GREAT !
Just should be made by Zero for service and so on :o 8)
I will gladly pay even more for it If Zero would supply (even tho I now ordered 6,6kW from Diginow, so too late ! 8) )
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the big charging issue (and no, no offense to DigiNow, spending $4K on a 3d-party solution by a 2-person startup to get 10kW isn't a solution).
...
That's the point they are missing at Zero.
If 2 persons can make something almost any current owner will like to have on their Zero.
Why not make it at least available, or join/take over Diginow even better?
The new solution instead of standard bellypan 3,3 or 6,6 or 9,9kW is.... GREAT !
Just should be made by Zero for service and so on :o 8)
I will gladly pay even more for it If Zero would supply (even tho I now ordered 6,6kW from Diginow, so too late ! 8) )
I think Zero is all about taking "baby steps" and the company is not about to take any financial risks or make any bold moves that are going to require big investments. I really think they are focused on the commuter and day-trip market, along with government agencies, where charging is typically accomplished overnight using a 120V home wall outlet and not so much on the long-distance rider. It is all about sales numbers for them and those are larger markets than customers looking for fast charging. I believe that they are happy to leave that segment of the market to Diginow to satisfy as it is just too small for them to invest in right now.
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I think Zero is all about taking "baby steps" and the company is not about to take any financial risks or make any bold moves that are going to require big investments. I really think they are focused on the commuter and day-trip market, along with government agencies, where charging is typically accomplished overnight using a 120V home wall outlet and not so much on the long-distance rider. It is all about sales numbers for them and those are larger markets than customers looking for fast charging. I believe that they are happy to leave that segment of the market to Diginow to satisfy as it is just too small for them to invest in right now.
Agreed. Most people who want to take long trips don't want to deal with the hassles of charging, no matter how fast. As I've stated before... a five minute stop at a gas station on my K1200LT is good for nearly 300 miles at a steady highway speed. Only when electrics become THAT convenient will they be truly viable for all-purpose touring duty. In the meantime they are PERFECT as-is for daily urban and suburban commuting duty, as well as day rides of less than 100 miles. I don't know about anyone else here, but that describes 95% of my riding.
I am grateful for people like BrianTRice and ElectricTerry for taking the time and expense to "push the envelope" but I don't have the need or desire to match their accomplishments.
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My problem is that I just don't have any patience when stopping, even at rest stops, much less gas stations. I just want to take as little time as possible to refuel or to hit the bathroom and then start riding again. I just couldn't take standing around watching my battery capacity numbers slowly increase. But that is just me. I am sure that other people are more relaxed about traveling than I am.
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My problem is that I just don't have any patience when stopping, even at rest stops, much less gas stations. I just want to take as little time as possible to refuel or to hit the bathroom and then start riding again. I just couldn't take standing around watching my battery capacity numbers slowly increase. But that is just me. I am sure that other people are more relaxed about traveling than I am.
I like touring, used to do 900km a day for the fun of it.
Fast charging gives me the opportunity to do at least modest touring.
Plus: on <160km trips I now will have it possible to charge like 15 minutes to get another 25km if I was having too much fun.... instead of fearing pushing.... 8)
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Please, do not dismiss Zero's offerings as borne out of ignorance or incompetence.
Zero, as a vehicle manufacturer, cannot produce and ship products or accessories that do not pass regulations in the major markets it addresses, mainly the EU/ECE and the USA.
DigiNow does not have to comply with those same regulations, and can sell products that Zero is not legally permitted to sell.
Zero sold the 2.5kW version of the Charge Tank for a couple of years because that's what they could ship, out of everything they tried. They sold the newer more powerful model as soon as they could. They'll sell a bellypan charger that's better than the admittedly-lackluster Calex 1200 when they can.
I don't have any insider information, but I connect the dots from hearing what their people sometimes say after the fact or just from interviews like this over time.
My point is that this aftermarket is a valid tier, and while both Zero and DigiNow could be doing a better job, they both deserve credit for working hard at what they make, and for pricing their products fairly (even if neither explains their value quite as well as I'd like).
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My problem is that I just don't have any patience when stopping, even at rest stops, much less gas stations. I just want to take as little time as possible to refuel or to hit the bathroom and then start riding again. I just couldn't take standing around watching my battery capacity numbers slowly increase. But that is just me. I am sure that other people are more relaxed about traveling than I am.
I like touring, used to do 900km a day for the fun of it.
Fast charging gives me the opportunity to do at least modest touring.
Plus: on <160km trips I now will have it possible to charge like 15 minutes to get another 25km if I was having too much fun.... instead of fearing pushing.... 8)
We're not that far off now, though:
With a 2018 Zero SR with Power Tank, 18kWh max capacity at 100 Wh/mile means that a 15 minute stop at 1C (~16kW) would recover 40 miles of range.
(16kW * 0.25h = 4kWh) / 100Wh/mi = 40mi
The question at this point is how to get drag down so that the 15 minute stop lets you cover more like 70 miles per stop.
15 minutes is enough to stretch your legs, use a public restroom, and look around. Most stops don't need to be that long, but plenty are longer, and it's probably fine to take this as an amortized stop length.
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My problem is that I just don't have any patience when stopping, even at rest stops, much less gas stations. I just want to take as little time as possible to refuel or to hit the bathroom and then start riding again. I just couldn't take standing around watching my battery capacity numbers slowly increase. But that is just me. I am sure that other people are more relaxed about traveling than I am.
I like touring, used to do 900km a day for the fun of it.
Fast charging gives me the opportunity to do at least modest touring.
Plus: on <160km trips I now will have it possible to charge like 15 minutes to get another 25km if I was having too much fun.... instead of fearing pushing.... 8)
Believe me, I've done several +800km trips this summer and it is very doable thanks to fast chargers like Fastned. It is amazing to ride these distances on a single day.
Please, do not dismiss Zero's offerings as borne out of ignorance or incompetence.
Zero, as a vehicle manufacturer, cannot produce and ship products or accessories that do not pass regulations in the major markets it addresses, mainly the EU/ECE and the USA.
DigiNow does not have to comply with those same regulations, and can sell products that Zero is not legally permitted to sell.
Zero sold the 2.5kW version of the Charge Tank for a couple of years because that's what they could ship, out of everything they tried. They sold the newer more powerful model as soon as they could. They'll sell a bellypan charger that's better than the admittedly-lackluster Calex 1200 when they can.
I don't have any insider information, but I connect the dots from hearing what their people sometimes say after the fact or just from interviews like this over time.
My point is that this aftermarket is a valid tier, and while both Zero and DigiNow could be doing a better job, they both deserve credit for working hard at what they make, and for pricing their products fairly (even if neither explains their value quite as well as I'd like).
I agree that Zero has to adhere to higher standards since they are the OEM after all, but to be honest I have the idea that even with the old fashioned onboard the bikes are selling like hot cakes anyway because they are perfect for commuting and general faffing around on a bike. A lot of owners still have an ICE standing by for the longer rides or take a car.
They did drop the ball on some fronts though imho.
- Scrapping Chademo because some Cali stations didn't adhere to the Chademo standard. I've seen hunderds of fast chargers on my rides and not a single one didn't offer the full voltage range. They had fast charging worked out and took it away again, making it a whole level of extra sour for riders who could have used it.
- Offering the charge tank in Europe with a J1772 plug, like wtf most of the world uses Mennekes anyway :o The communication protocol behind it is the same, all they have to do is wire in another inlet.
- The onboard; in 2018 it isn't viable anymore, there are so much more smaller, lighter and proven chargers these days. I'm not talking Diginow fast but for half the weight you can have double the power of OEM quality chargers than what they use now.
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There is an advantage in fast charging during 30-45 minutes, vs. refueling in 5 minutes. Not only can you take your time at the restroom, but also you may find an occasion to chat relaxed with other people/riders who are curious about a bike hanging at a charger. You may not need to close the discussion with "sorry, I would have liked to talk longer but the charge is already finished so I must go...". :-)
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So the solution is more charging stations at microbreweries and wineries?
(And in Colorado, there may be additional options.)
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Please, do not dismiss Zero's offerings as borne out of ignorance or incompetence.
Zero, as a vehicle manufacturer, cannot produce and ship products or accessories that do not pass regulations in the major markets it addresses, mainly the EU/ECE and the USA.
DigiNow does not have to comply with those same regulations, and can sell products that Zero is not legally permitted to sell.
Don't know about the US (I seem to recall that small vehicle manufacturers are less constrained than large ones by Federal regulations, and perhaps that applies to 3d-party accessory vendors); but this isn't true generally for Europe AFAIK, and not for several other countries: Who the vendor is doesn't matter. In fact, here, no accessory that ties in to a major vehicle system can be legally imported or sold unless the vehicle's official importer formally endorses the accessory in writing.
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Agreed. Most people who want to take long trips don't want to deal with the hassles of charging, no matter how fast. As I've stated before... a five minute stop at a gas station on my K1200LT is good for nearly 300 miles at a steady highway speed. Only when electrics become THAT convenient will they be truly viable for all-purpose touring duty. In the meantime they are PERFECT as-is for daily urban and suburban commuting duty, as well as day rides of less than 100 miles. I don't know about anyone else here, but that describes 95% of my riding.
I am grateful for people like BrianTRice and ElectricTerry for taking the time and expense to "push the envelope" but I don't have the need or desire to match their accomplishments.
I agree with you 100% on this Jaime - describes my use model exactly. ICE bike (or car) for long distances, EV for most everything else.
Courtney in Seattle
BMW R1200GSA
BMW C Evolution
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Commuting 150km a day and doing 120-130km/h mainly. So my use now is never stop anymore for refill because I charge at home and at work.
In weekend doing 160km cruising 60-80km/h without refill.
So I don't need ICE anymore and love it.
Better battery and faster charging(soon!) will allow me longer cruising, and after 110-130km I would normaly also stop on a ICE bike for 30-60min.
So also not a problem charging on tour.
Sold my ICE last year and hope it was the last I ever owned, drivetrain and maintenance so much better on EV.
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I fall into the ICE for long distances camp. When I go riding to a motorcycle rally (as I will next weekend), I need to ride on the freeway at 80 mph for a couple hundred miles just to keep up with traffic. While doing so I end up having to pass many big rig tractor trailer trucks, motor homes and large pickups pulling big trailers that clog the roads in California. Passing this type of vehicle is a real pain that I don't want to repeat again if I have to stop for any length of time to refuel. So every 200 miles I pull into a convenient gas station, fill up with fuel in under 5 minutes, and jump back on the freeway again trying to stay ahead of all of those roadblocks that I had passed before.
Once I reach a mountain back road where I can take my time and enjoy the ride, I will calm down and am willing to spend more time off the bike. But you have to get there first and once there you find out that electrical charging stations (or cell phone signals for that matter) are not available out in the boondocks where I like to ride. So for me, I use my Zero for local trips within a 50-mile radius during a single day and use one of my other ICE motorcycles to take me on longer multi-day trips.