ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Rugby4life on April 13, 2018, 09:21:10 AM
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So I was thinking how much I'm enjoying my 2017 SR but it's basically a $16k occasional use toy. I have to charge for 8.5 hrs to get 1.5 hrs of fun. Well, my SR just got an extreme makeover with a 9.9kw belly pan charging system from Diginow. I now have 7.5 times the charging capacity without sacrificing any luggage space. I no longer have an occasional use toy but a full blown road trip machine.
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Two benefits of this double J-plug install is that the inlets mount to the inside of the saddlebag racks so they are well protected yet easily accessible. Also, I have the flexibility to buddy charge another bike at the same time. So if you have a friend (or significant other) who only has the stock charger, you can still road trip together.
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So what’s your charge time now? I was looking at configuration or the one below it. How long did the install take?
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One of the positives with purchasing from Diginow is the option of having the founder of the company fly across the country to do the install and then spend the next few days touring with me, teaching me the ins and outs of fast charging. The only gremlin we had to troubleshoot had nothing to do with the chargers. I had very old firmware for my BMS and MBB and the two decided to stop talking to each other. Brandon Stayed an extra day until the dealership opened and did the firmware update himself while on the phone with a Zero engineer. This also rid me of the occasional "zombie charger" bug where the charging light stayed on long after unplugging.
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After the firmware upgrade, we had no further issues. I treated him to some true southern cuisine and made a couple of other charging stops while making new friends. We got our best performance at a public station (full 240v) in Hendersonville, NC and a Tesla station in Greenville SC. We toured over 300 miles and spent $0.00 for charging.
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So what’s your charge time now? I was looking at configuration or the one below it. How long did the install take?
We did a lot of partial charges at different station brands. The closest I've come to a full charge is a 20%-90% on a 208v station in 45 minutes. The Tesla and Hendersonville stations would have shaved about 10 minutes off that time.
I can't believe I got spoiled so quickly, I now view 8.5kw charging (208v) as slow charging.
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That is really great information and I am sure it will be very helpful to many other Zero owners. But what really got my attention was your mention of the "zombie charger" light bug. I have the same issue, but it happens all of the time. Do you have any idea how it was solved? I have contacted Zero about the bug but so far I have received no response and my dealer says that they have never heard of such a thing ever happening to the Zeros that they service. I was getting worried that my bug was unique and that there was no fix for the problem.
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My layman's understanding is that a certain capacitor gets juiced during charging and after the charger is unplugged, the capacitor leak into the system until it burns off its excess. Older versions of the firmware see this as a signal that charging is still taking place. My understanding is that newer firmware weeds out the stray signal. Again, this is a layman's understanding but after my upflash, I haven't had the issue again.
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My layman's understanding is that a certain capacitor gets juiced during charging and after the charger is unplugged, the capacitor leak into the system until it burns off its excess. Older versions of the firmware see this as a signal that charging is still taking place. My understanding is that newer firmware weeds out the stray signal. Again, this is a layman's understanding but after my upflash, I haven't had the issue again.
I have the latest MMB and BMS firmware installed in my 2018 S and the light still will not go off. It will stay on for at least 3 days, draining the battery pack the entire time. After 3 days the voltage will have dropped from 116 volts to 113 volts. The only way to turn the charging light off and disconnect the contactor switch is to turn the ignition switch on and then off. Once that is done, the contactor switch clicks off and so does the charging light. So that is what I do after every recharge. :(
Sorry for hijacking your thread subject. :-[ I'll be quiet now. I just had to blow off a little steam. ;)
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No problem, we're all just seeking knowledge to run our bikes better.
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My layman's understanding is that a certain capacitor gets juiced during charging and after the charger is unplugged, the capacitor leak into the system until it burns off its excess. Older versions of the firmware see this as a signal that charging is still taking place. My understanding is that newer firmware weeds out the stray signal. Again, this is a layman's understanding but after my upflash, I haven't had the issue again.
That's a good explanation; I'll try to work this into the unofficial manual (somehow; the manual is large enough that the main question is where to put information so people can find it!).
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Two benefits of this double J-plug install is that the inlets mount to the inside of the saddlebag racks so they are well protected yet easily accessible. Also, I have the flexibility to buddy charge another bike at the same time. So if you have a friend (or significant other) who only has the stock charger, you can still road trip together.
That's a new install position and does look convenient.
However, it seems a little less protected from the weather than a tank plug mount (especially a tank with a large windscreen above it). Maybe a cover like a tool tube or the like might provide a little more protection without sacrificing ease of use.
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So I was thinking how much I'm enjoying my 2017 SR but it's basically a $16k occasional use toy. I have to charge for 8.5 hrs to get 1.5 hrs of fun. Well, my SR just got an extreme makeover with a 9.9kw belly pan charging system from Diginow. I now have 7.5 times the charging capacity without sacrificing any luggage space. I no longer have an occasional use toy but a full blown road trip machine.
So what’s your charge time now? I was looking at configuration or the one below it. How long did the install take?
We did a lot of partial charges at different station brands. The closest I've come to a full charge is a 20%-90% on a 208v station in 45 minutes. The Tesla and Hendersonville stations would have shaved about 10 minutes off that time.
I can't believe I got spoiled so quickly, I now view 8.5kw charging (208v) as slow charging.
It's really hard to convey how much fast charging is a game-changer for electric motorcycling, so I really appreciate you writing this up and expressing its effect on your riding.
To contrast, 4-wheeled EV owners have such a higher power draw that they accept whatever the manufacturer has installed as given, and their trip possibilities are far less flexible.
Every electric motorcycle can travel reasonably with the ability to take in ~100A DC from 220V AC single-phase ports (a single Tesla destination charger or 2 J plugs or 1 NEMA 14-50 RV park plug with an aux plug). A fairing makes it more comfortable and less stressful to connect trip legs, so we're now just a few relatively incremental steps from these bikes being accessible travel machines.
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Nice photos of the belly mount beta test.
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Every electric motorcycle can travel reasonably with the ability to take in ~100A DC from 220V AC single-phase ports (a single Tesla destination charger or 2 J plugs or 1 NEMA 14-50 RV park plug with an aux plug). A fairing makes it more comfortable and less stressful to connect trip legs, so we're now just a few relatively incremental steps from these bikes being accessible travel machines.
how are you connecting the single Tesla plug into the 2 Jplugs? straight Y cable? how is the pilot signal wired?
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@Electric Cowboy is building the adapter cables for me. I have easy access to the Anderson connectors leading to the J-plug inlets. So instead of making adapters with expensive J-plugs, I'll connect straight into the Andersons. For our testing sessions we used his personal development unit. which Ys from the tesla inlet to the Andersons. As far as signaling, you'll have to ask him. That's beyond my limited knowledge at the moment.
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Oops, popped my first circuit breaker today. I should have guessed it was a shared station with 3.3kw per side based on how skinny the cords were. Ran for about 2 minutes before it shut down. The other plug that was feeding the single Diginow kept running, so like an idiot, I switched it to the other side and 2 minutes later... silence. I'm learning something new each day and in the 500 miles of fast charging, I still haven't paid for a single electron. Saving time and saving money, that's how I roll.
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Oops, popped my first circuit breaker today. I should have guessed it was a shared station with 3.3kw per side based on how skinny the cords were. Ran for about 2 minutes before it shut down. The other plug that was feeding the single Diginow kept running, so like an idiot, I switched it to the other side and 2 minutes later... silence. I'm learning something new each day and in the 500 miles of fast charging, I still haven't paid for a single electron. Saving time and saving money, that's how I roll.
Where are you charging that it’s not costing you anything?
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Where are you charging that it’s not costing you anything?
A lot of places don't bill you for J Plug charging. This is where apps like PlugShare come in really handy so you can a.) scope out what costs around you and b.) route planning for free.
Here's a screen shot from PlugShare of the free stations within a 50 mile radius of my house. I've also mapped out all of my favorite rides within a 5 state radius without having to stop at a single pay station. Considering I didn't pay any more for the Zero (with Diginow charge pan) than I have for any of my recent BMW and Ducatis, and factoring in the greatly reduced maintenance costs and ZERO fuel costs, the economics swing in my favor quite quickly.
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Selling the stock charger from my '17 SR. Just over 1k miles of charges on it. I live near GSP airport in upstate SC. Will meet you within 150 miles. $500 with free pick up (or meet up) or actual shipping costs. Also posted in the marketplace.
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Very nice review Rugby4life
I also work with 3 SCV2 and have a 2017 SR.
I also got the famous more and more known what you call "Zombie charger" problem.
For what i know is that once i reconnected the stock GW 1.3kW charger the green light now remain OFF and i can key ON and key OFF the bike without that problem of green light or 0:00 charge time displayed.
It seem that the GW charger have the circuit or bypass that is used to bleed any residual energy stored in a caps in the BMS or MBB.
Since i reconnected temporarely that GW cahrger problem never reapearred. However i will have to test if charging again with the SCV2 re-activathe the problem...
My firmware version is 16 i think.
Also... I have one of the few frankenstein 2017 Zero that are made of 4 bricks and that does not have the long bricks...... kinda badluck but still unacceptable as it is clarely advertized that it now have the long bricks (2x 28s2p)technology...
Doc
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DB, I read about a trick to get past the zombie charger error. Instead of sitting and waiting for the excess energy to bleed off, put the bike in run mode with the kickstand up just like you are going to ride away. With the throttle closed, roll forward a few feet, the zombie disappears and the run light comes on. Then you ride away like normal. It has worked for me for the last 1k miles. In my layman's mind I think the forward motion (doesn't work rolling backwards) tricks the bike into thinking the excess charge is coming from regen.
As far as the battery construction goes, it doesn't really bother me. I've worked in a BMW factory for 24 years now and know how many rolling changes are made to a car's design throughout a model year. Now, if Zero gets twinges of guilt over giving me a 2016 runout battery, I'll gladly let them substitute a 2018 14.4kw battery as penitence. ;D
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My firmware version is 16 i think.
Also... I have one of the few frankenstein 2017 Zero that are made of 4 bricks and that does not have the long bricks...... kinda badluck but still unacceptable as it is clarely advertized that it now have the long bricks (2x 28s2p)technology...
Doc
I think I experienced the zombie charging bug once as well, rolling forward did fix it in the past. Version 22
How did you check for # of bricks?
Running the BMS command on MY17 DSR
- Model Year : 2017
- Pack Capacity : 104 AH
- Pack Capacity Remaining : 89 AH
- Total Energy Used : 182 KWH
- Number Of Bricks : 4
I do see 28 battery voltages