ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Tony on August 28, 2017, 08:14:34 AM
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Recently the clock on my 2016 DSR started acting weird. The time sometimes just stops. Everything else on the display works fine though.
Is this a known issue that can be solved somehow? Hopefully I wont have to replace the entire circuit board...
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Recently the clock on my 2016 DSR started acting weird. The time sometimes just stops. Everything else on the display works fine though.
Is this a known issue that can be solved somehow? Hopefully I wont have to replace the entire circuit board...
That is not normal, nor a problem I've ever heard of so it is uncommon at least. I've got a 2016 DSR and its display clock runs fast (confirmed by others) otherwise no issues with a lack of functionality for timekeeping. Dealer time and get that figured out under warranty! Good luck.
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Recently the clock on my 2016 DSR started acting weird. The time sometimes just stops. Everything else on the display works fine though.
Is this a known issue that can be solved somehow? Hopefully I wont have to replace the entire circuit board...
That is the first time I have heard of this issue. The clock on my 2014S still works just fine - but it does gain about two minutes a month. :(
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Does anyone know if the clock is in the MBB or the Kozo?
One thing that surprises me is that the clock on the bike even needs to be set. I mean, I connect with a phone, and the phone gets really accurate time. You'd think the Zero App would set the time on the bike every time it connected.
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Recently the clock on my 2016 DSR started acting weird. The time sometimes just stops. Everything else on the display works fine though.
Is this a known issue that can be solved somehow? Hopefully I wont have to replace the entire circuit board...
I've never set nor paid too much attention to the clock. That said, I think it runs fast. Clock on my Honda Element runs slow (a minute or two every week or two). Digital clocks are decades old technology; why don't (some) keep proper time. Without syncing? Hm, now I'm interested in how they work ...
That said, if you're under warranty, insist that Zero fixes it. Not because the clock's important, but because the malfunction may be indicative of other, more serious, problems in the hardware/software.
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Digital clocks are decades old technology; why don't (some) keep proper time. Without syncing? Hm, now I'm interested in how they work ...
So a electronics manufacturer takes this little tiny piece of quartz crystal and put a voltage to it or near it. This distorts the crystal slightly. The crystal is piezoelectric, meaning when you stress it by bending it, it makes an electrical charge. So it pops this charge out, and straightens out. It then repeats. The output of these little pulses is a frequency, based on the crystal, its shape, impurities, etc. they shave it with a laser to make it as precise as possible for whatever frequency they're trying to make. common watches usually use 32,768 Hz.
The clock counts these little pluses like the tick of a clock.. the clock counts 32,768 of them then adds 1 second to the output. super simple, based on the crystal oscillator.
Of course, when you're counting this TINY time between little ticks, the smallest of errors add up over time, and thats why cheap watches and clocks drift off.
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Yes the quartz crystals are more or less sorted by precision (error thereof) at the manufacturing plant. And the selling price depends on the precision class. This means, if you want to purchase the very cheapest component, it will surely run fast or slow, due to this sorting process.
Furthermore, at board level, the crystal is usually mounted like a bridge with 2 tiny capacitors (10 -50 pF). The capacitor's value has a slight influence on the resonnating frequency. They can help adjust the precision, but they can also increase the unprecision!
However, this does not explain why the clock actually stops!
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Just to close the topic: After the clock failed, the entire panel started to malfunction gradually until I could not even read the speed. I had the entire panel replaced today, and now everything is working well again. I am guessing moisture killed the circuits in the old panel as just before it started to malfunction I was ambushed by a rainstorm which soaked both me and the motorcycle thoroughly.
Anyway, the panel was fixed for free while I was waiting. Great service and follow up from local dealer / Zero. :)
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Digital clocks are decades old technology; why don't (some) keep proper time. Without syncing? Hm, now I'm interested in how they work ...
So a electronics manufacturer takes this little tiny piece of quartz crystal and put a voltage to it or near it. This distorts the crystal slightly. The crystal is piezoelectric, meaning when you stress it by bending it, it makes an electrical charge. So it pops this charge out, and straightens out. It then repeats. The output of these little pulses is a frequency, based on the crystal, its shape, impurities, etc. they shave it with a laser to make it as precise as possible for whatever frequency they're trying to make. common watches usually use 32,768 Hz.
The clock counts these little pluses like the tick of a clock.. the clock counts 32,768 of them then adds 1 second to the output. super simple, based on the crystal oscillator.
Of course, when you're counting this TINY time between little ticks, the smallest of errors add up over time, and thats why cheap watches and clocks drift off.
Great explanation; thanks! (I'm always asking people I work with: can you explain this to me *without* writing mathematical equations on the white board? -- because I'm CS, not Math. Almost no one can.)
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You didn't get much math in Computer Science?
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OP has found their solution is a replacement of the display.
Since there's a question about how quartz is used for electronic timekeeping you may find the following video useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b--FKHCFjOMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b--FKHCFjOM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b--FKHCFjOM) "Crystals Go to War (1943)"
Of course that video is older and some of the information about the manufacturing processes is obsolete, however the base information is still valid and may help the viewer to understand the history of quartz wafer production and how it can possibly relate to timekeeping.
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I don't understand why they don't sync the clock when the smartphone connects though. Should be easy, and time on the smartphone is pretty accurate.
I've had my bike for a couple of months, and the clock is all ready almost 5 minutes fast.
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I don't understand why they don't sync the clock when the smartphone connects though. Should be easy, and time on the smartphone is pretty accurate.
I've had my bike for a couple of months, and the clock is all ready almost 5 minutes fast.
At least it is nice to know that nothing has changed since I bought my 2014S. ::)
And the dealers can always tell you that: "They all do that, Sir." - with a "straight face". ;)
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I don't understand why they don't sync the clock when the smartphone connects though. Should be easy, and time on the smartphone is pretty accurate.
I've had my bike for a couple of months, and the clock is all ready almost 5 minutes fast.
actually your smartphone is horribly inaccurate... but its corrected regularly by the cell towers that you never notice.need
The dash doesnt update from the smartphone because the dash software cant be updated over CAN.
To update the time via smartphone, it would require the dash to have commands to update the time over CAN, and then the main board would have to have software to send that command and to query the smartphone, and the smartphone app would need to be updated to send it from that query. Thats 3 devices needing updated softwared to work, with one of them unable to be flashed outside of the factory or a lab bench.
I think its a low enough priority that it wont happen until a new custom dash is designed.
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Digital clocks are decades old technology; why don't (some) keep proper time. Without syncing? Hm, now I'm interested in how they work ...
So a electronics manufacturer takes this little tiny piece of quartz crystal and put a voltage to it or near it. This distorts the crystal slightly. The crystal is piezoelectric, meaning when you stress it by bending it, it makes an electrical charge. So it pops this charge out, and straightens out. It then repeats. The output of these little pulses is a frequency, based on the crystal, its shape, impurities, etc. they shave it with a laser to make it as precise as possible for whatever frequency they're trying to make. common watches usually use 32,768 Hz.
The clock counts these little pluses like the tick of a clock.. the clock counts 32,768 of them then adds 1 second to the output. super simple, based on the crystal oscillator.
Of course, when you're counting this TINY time between little ticks, the smallest of errors add up over time, and thats why cheap watches and clocks drift off.
Great explanation; thanks! (I'm always asking people I work with: can you explain this to me *without* writing mathematical equations on the white board? -- because I'm CS, not Math. Almost no one can.)
you're welcome. I swiped it from an old email I wrote to my nephew that asked the same question... lol.
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> Does anyone know if the clock is in the MBB or the Kozo?
It's in the Kozo (dash).
Daniel Montero posted a nice PDF of how to change the battery on f-book in the Zero Motorcycles Owners Group.
He tried to post it on EMF as well, but message attachments are limited to 600K.