ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Perseverius on March 09, 2017, 05:33:25 PM
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Hi, just thought I'd try my luck and ask if anyone has used the Gates tension app to check their belt. I've recently changed my bike to the higher speed gearing option and I see the Gates app only makes suggestions for what the frequency should be for mountain bicycles. Nothing on the unofficial service manual either.
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Loving the "100% Electric" lettering... neat! I haven't got the Gates belt tension app to work for me...
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There are numerous "spectrum analyser" apps available, or even guitar tuners which are merely the same thing. If someone knowledgeable recommended the "right frequency range" for our belts, we would be able to quickly check them anytime without needing an extra tool.
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Oh, FYI, I noticed that Zero's 2017 manual was updated since January and now lists the Gates Carbon Drive app and has a general procedure for using it! So that's some kind of endorsement.
I tried to use it and cannot get a proper pluck to happen, so I don't have a reading yet or a good thing to write down on the wiki.
Presumably, one has to find the exact center of free play along the lower belt pass and really twang it with something stiff.
I'm still proficient using the Krikit gauge, so I'm still relying on that for now. And my belt is still well in spec at 18k miles, but I do check more frequently now, maybe twice a month since I rack up 1600 miles per month just commuting.
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I like the "100% electric" also.
I look for something similar. Probably something that can be attached on the back of the bike.
Maybe we should come up with a slogan, since zero seems not to have one.
I like "enjoy the silence - 100% electric", but this might be puzzling for some people.
Haha, sombody already had the same idea (see the pic).
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Riding these days on wet roads, rainy weather. The zero is not exactly silent. The belt is making horrible screatching noises when accelerating, supposed to be "normal" when wet as read in another thread. Somehow I feel uncomfortable when passing by pedestrians who can hear that. What do they think? Can't tell them while riding "oh, don't care, it's just humidity...". Maybe some will think "electric vehicles and rain are just a dangerous combination...".
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Thanks for all the replies. The 100% electric sticker was put on the bike by the dealer effectively making my bike a riding billboard for these bikes. It doesn't look bad so I don't mind. As for the Gates app, I've tightened the belt a bit and as you can see, plucking the belt gives consistent results. So I guess this could be a quick and easy way to check.
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The 100% electric sticker was put on the bike by the dealer effectively making my bike a riding billboard for these bikes.
Ah, that makes sense. I like it too, but it's mostly covered by your leg when you're riding. But not in the showroom or when it's parked somewhere!
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Riding these days on wet roads, rainy weather. The zero is not exactly silent. The belt is making horrible screatching noises when accelerating, supposed to be "normal" when wet as read in another thread. Somehow I feel uncomfortable when passing by pedestrians who can hear that. What do they think? Can't tell them while riding "oh, don't care, it's just humidity...". Maybe some will think "electric vehicles and rain are just a dangerous combination...".
Belt groan is a known issue with some remedies:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Problems#Groan_Sound
I don't know about screeching (try cleaning the sprocket teeth with a brush), but if it's just a low groan, I wouldn't feel too self-conscious.
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Ahhh, I'm not so familiar with the english words "groaning" and "screetching", in fact, don't know how to describe that noise which may be "normal" under wet conditions!
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Hello, I tried the carbon drive app and could reproduce consistently a frequency of 43 to 44Hz. Nice to be reproducible. But what does it mean? Which is the correct "frequency range" for a '14 S belt?
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Here are the relevant pages from the newest owner's manual. The 8mm frequency range is applicable to all 2013 and newer motorcycles that have that belt.
8 mm --> 96.3 to 125 Hz
11 mm --> 42.5 to 73.6 Hz
Regards,
aaronzeromo
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Hello Aaron,
Strange, just checked the 2017 manual, it says:
Zero S ZF13 pitch 8 20-30kg
All other pitch 11 25-76.5kg
This looks like an odd copy-paste between krikit spec and frequency measurement spec...
Furthermore, where do you come to the point that ZF6.5 has 8mm pitch and ZF13.0 has 11mm?
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You can see in the specs that it's a different belt between 6.5 and 13
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/specs.php (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/specs.php)
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Hello Aaron,
Strange, just checked the 2017 manual, it says:
Zero S ZF13 pitch 8 20-30kg
All other pitch 11 25-76.5kg
This looks like an odd copy-paste between krikit spec and frequency measurement spec...
Furthermore, where do you come to the point that ZF6.5 has 8mm pitch and ZF13.0 has 11mm?
Yes, these are typos that are getting corrected in the current manual. And you are right that the ZF6.5 does not have an 8mm pitch belt. Ignore the model designation and only look at the belt size. The frequencies apply to the relevant belt.
Sorry for the confusion.
aaronzeromoto
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Does a Tension Tester (an example of the type is shown here) come with the bike? I'm sure it doesn't but thought I'd check . . . .
(http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/images/large/10-04627.jpg)
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Does a Tension Tester (an example of the type is shown here) come with the bike? I'm sure it doesn't but thought I'd check . . . .
(http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/images/large/10-04627.jpg)
Nope. Belt tension measurement (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#Belt_tension_measurement) (zeromanual dot com)
It's not the most reliable thing but a more accurate gauge will be $100's.
Belt tension seems to vary widely with temperature and initial break-in so be sure to have some kind of gauge and prevent having an over-tightened belt.
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OK, thanks.
My current bikes are belt driven so I have some experience. In fact, I can pretty much "feel" the tightness pretty correctly by just pushing on the belt halfway between the sprockets. I also have an OEM belt gauge to make sure.
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My Zero FXS 2016 ZF6.5 has a drive belt with 14mm width, 8mm pitch, 54.5 cm between the axes of the sprockets.
The bike has made 1613 kms.
I have measured the tension using the Gates 91107 Belt Tension Tester (Krikit tool), and the frequency of the belt vibrations using the Gates' Carbon Drive mobile app.
I have made several measurements for each tension setting, with different positions of the wheel, and I give here the average taken from the most stable results.
From factory, the Krikit tool gives a tension greater than 70 kgs, and the frequency is 102 Hz.
Turning the bolts by 1/4 of a turn, the Krikit tool gives 60 kgs, and the frequency is 79 Hz.
Turning the bolts by 1/2 of a turn, the Krikit tool gives 20 kgs, and the frequency is not measurable.
Turning the bolts by 2/6 of a turn, the Krikit tool gives 25 kgs, and the frequency is 44 Hz.
Next setting: the Krikit tool gives 40 kgs, and the frequency is 72 Hz.
Next setting: the Krikit tool gives 30 to 32 kgs depending on the measurements, and the frequency is 58 Hz.
I have kept this last setting.
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Ahhh, I'm not so familiar with the english words "groaning" and "screetching", in fact, don't know how to describe that noise which may be "normal" under wet conditions!
The words are onomatopoeic in English. Screech is high higher, closer to a squeal, while groan is lower. Monkeys screech but a man with a stomach ache would groan. But obviously, both are approximations and the sound may differ even when the cause is similar.
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Ahhh, I'm not so familiar with the english words "groaning" and "screetching", in fact, don't know how to describe that noise which may be "normal" under wet conditions!
The words are onomatopoeic in English. Screech is high higher, closer to a squeal, while groan is lower. Monkeys screech but a man with a stomach ache woudld groan. But obviously, both are approximations and the sound may differ even when the cause is similar.
Wet belt = wounded wookie
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
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Setting my belt with the Gates Krikit tool to 20 kg (or 30 depending on the wheel rotation position) the belt seems loose. Using the android carbon drive app I get a very consistent 44 /45 (at 30kg) no matter how I strum the belt. When I set the belt to 96 using the app it is very tight, only moves up and down 2 - 3 mm when I push on it with my fingers. Makes me think the 96 - 124 is wrong. It is also more noisy now.
I am wondering if it should be around 60 for the app.
I also think my Gates gage is wrong or I am using it wrong.
The app is a more accurate way to measure.
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Both are pretty hard to use correctly.
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Both are pretty hard to use correctly.
I found the app really easy to use and very consistent. I just think the values in the manual are wrong.
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grmarks, when you set the belt to 96Hz with the app, what's the value shown by the krikit?
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Note that the correspondence between the frequency and the tension involves also the nature of the belt and the distance between the ends of the free part of the belt (same as in a guitar ;) ).
Since the belts differ among our bikes, and probably the distance also, data from one bike are not necessarily good for another bike.
By the way, I have measured again today for my bike (Zero FXS 2016 ZF6.5 11kW, which has a drive belt with 14mm width, 8mm pitch, 54.5 cm between the axes of the sprockets).
Previous measurement, April 4th 2017, bike had 1613 kms, the Krikit tool gave 30 to 32 kgs depending on the measurements, and the frequency was 58 Hz.
Today measurement, Sept. 1st 2017, bike has 3502 kms, the Krikit tool gives 36 to 38 kgs depending on the measurements, and the frequency 69 or 70 Hz.
Note that I have not changed anything on my bike between the two measurements. So, in that case, the tension has increased with time...
Finally, I noticed that if the belt is vibrated by tapping it with a tool, the frequency is not reliable.
On the other hand, by stretching the belt by hand and releasing it, the frequency is quite reproducible.
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I tried to use it and cannot get a proper pluck to happen, so I don't have a reading yet or a good thing to write down on the wiki.
Presumably, one has to find the exact center of free play along the lower belt pass and really twang it with something stiff.
I have used the Gates Carbon Drive app. twice. Once to confirm correct tension as delivered. The second time after I had removed and reinstalled the rear wheel. I find it very user friendly and consistent as long as the environment is fairly quiet. It is much better than the guitar tuners I've used to tension the cam drive belts on my Ducati.
As far as plucking the belt, it doesn't seem that critical to find the exact center. An inch or two off one way or the other seems to get the same reading. My finger gets sore from plucking, so I use the rubber coated handle of a telescoping magnet. Plucking upward, downward, or lightly thumping yield equally good results. :)