ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: scorpion32 on January 04, 2017, 06:07:58 PM
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So, finally my lovely wife agreed (at least temporarily) that i have to buy a bike. 8)
Now i have to decide between a brand new 2017 DS or a used (500km) DSR 2016.
I would for sure go for the DSR, but there is this litte cable (break cable) making me mad blocking the cockpit display.
Cannot understand why the 2016 S and SR do not having this cable, but the 2016 DS and DSR have it. Looks really annoying.
What do you think? Is the cable annoying on the long run? Can this be fixed somehow?
Thanks for your comments. I attached 2 pics showing the view on the display with the cable (from DS 2016) and without cable (DS 2017).
Also : Has anybody experience with the new DS 2017. I wonder how the 19% plus torque feels compared to the 144NM of the DSR.
Happy new year to all of you.
Greetings
Scorpion
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Well first I think there was something about rerouting the cable in the unofficial manual but beyond that do you plan on much off road use? The 2017 has a wider (should be stronger) belt and a splined motor shaft replacing the "keyed" shaft of older models. The 17's ability to upgrade the firmware from the app saves on dealer trips. So its kind of down to higher torque and less or same price for a 16 DSR.
You know if the ummph is a must for you or not.
Good luck and welcome aboard.
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Thx for the reply NEW2elec,
to be honest i don´t plan to drive off-road at all. It´s just the more comfy riding position that lets me go for a DS or DSR.
And probably the 144 NM torque on a 2016 model is more fun than the "just" 110NM on a 2017 DS.
The firmware update is a good point to mention. How many updates can be expected in a year and how much time does the dealer need to update?
I don´t worry to drive to the dealer, but would worry if the update would take a few days or costs a lot. Any numbers on that?
I will study the unofficial manual for the rerouting of the beak cable - thx for the hint.
Best
Scorpion
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I have had the 2015 DS with the cable 'blocking' the display.
While riding, i found it no issue at all, because it only blocks your sight towards the ignition.
Sometimes the cable annoyed me a bit while fidling with the key and ignition. Actually it was a minor detail.
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Thx for sharing your experience with this issue, buutvrij for life.
Good to know that it does not disturb while driving and looking at the display.
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The updates on mine were all under warranty so I don't know what the cost would be. The time to install the update is less than an hour I'm sure but it depends on when they "get to the bike" as to when that hour starts.
I went for the DS for the more comfortable ride too.
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I don't have the DSR, but the FXS. This also has the brake cable in the way. In my case, it blocked part of the display also and ended up really annoying me. Fortunately, it was pretty easy for me to adjust the cable so that it was no longer in the way.
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I don't have the DSR, but the FXS. This also has the brake cable in the way. In my case, it blocked part of the display also and ended up really annoying me. Fortunately, it was pretty easy for me to adjust the cable so that it was no longer in the way.
How did you manage to do this? Do you have a picture or something? Did you have to take out the break fluid? Want to change that on my FXS, too.
Thanks.
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I think we need someone with a 2017 to take some pictures and figure out just what Zero changed and maybe some of us with older bikes can retrofit them.
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
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I don't have the DSR, but the FXS. This also has the brake cable in the way. In my case, it blocked part of the display also and ended up really annoying me. Fortunately, it was pretty easy for me to adjust the cable so that it was no longer in the way.
How did you manage to do this? Do you have a picture or something? Did you have to take out the break fluid? Want to change that on my FXS, too.
Thanks.
I have very little in the way of tools or mechanical ability, and it was pretty easy. Details here. http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6144.msg48273#msg48273 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6144.msg48273#msg48273) No need to remove brake fluid.
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I'll forewarn you ahead of time . . . If you ride a 2017 DSR or SR, you'll be ruined for life, there is no turning back - the power and torque compared to a 2016 is like another bike all together.
I bought my 17 DSR only because it was electric and really not for the speed - however I wanted the latest refinements, i.e. Battery - New Motor - Big Ass Controller, etc. Rule of thumb on any electrics be it cars or bikes, you always want to get the latest technology!
The speed on my DSR is unbelievable, my friend has a Augusta Dragster RR and my Zero takes him out. While my racing days are pretty much over - lately I found a new enjoyment with this bike since it will out-run possibly 90% of the hot ICE rocket street bikes. I live 20 minutes from Suches, Ga, so this is bike country around here. When you pull up alone side them, most of the time they start snickering and smiling like most Harley guys do to other bikes. One smart ass even asked me where were my mufflers? What's funny is when the light turns green, or in the twisties here in Georgia, they never see it coming . . . while their grabbing gears, clutching and shifting and looking for me in their mirrors, my DSR rips right by them. LOL
Here's a few images of my "Sleeper" Good luck on your new venture!
Mike
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z1.jpg)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z2.jpg)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z3.jpg)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z4.jpg)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z5.jpg)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z6.jpg)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z7.jpg)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z8.jpg)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z9.jpg)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z10.jpg)
(http://www.com-pany.com/zero/z11.jpg)
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Ok guys, just about to order the "DSR Anniversary Edition 2016".
It already has the "hidden break wire" feature and comes with a charge tank. Looks very nicely at the dealers shop.
Does anybody know if the body parts of the anniversary edition are "just painted" or molded in?
On the internet the only info about this is "premium metallic paint". Whatever that means.
The dealer had no answer to that question.
Thanks
Scorpion
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Sounds like it has the 2017 paint. But, wouldn't you rather get a 2017 DSR and add a DigiNow Supercharger to it? Cheaper and faster than the built in one on the 2016 Special Edition.
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Sounds like it has the 2017 paint. But, wouldn't you rather get a 2017 DSR and add a DigiNow Supercharger to it? Cheaper and faster than the built in one on the 2016 Special Edition.
Yes, good point. I was considering this in sleepless nights also. However i live in Germany and so far the DigiNow Charger is not available here (or anywhere ?) and it´s also unclear if the zero warranty is still valid if one is using such a charger. Did not find a statement from Zero about this. Not to mention the german law: not sure if the DigiNow charger gets CE approval. So there are still some uncertainties. I would like to see that the 2018 Zeros are equipped with the DigiNow charger or at least with its capabilities. In the meantime i can live with the 2.9 hours until 95% is charged. But i will report about my charging experience with the charge tank. Cannot wait until the bike is in my garage and that snow is melting away.
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When I bought my Zero I was deciding about a cheaper ex demo 2014 S or a new 2015 SR. In the end I wanted the extra power for those occasions at the lights. Also my wife rides with me (on the back) so the extra power and higher temp tolerance for hot weather was a tick for the RS. I don't often ride over 100km/h but I know I can do this and more on a 40 degree C day no problem.
I bought the SR and absolutely love it. In hind sight the 2015 was much more reliable than a 2014. 2016 is even better to the point where I don't think reliability comes into the equation any more.
For me I would go the DSR...power!
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it´s also unclear if the zero warranty is still valid if one is using such a charger. Did not find a statement from Zero about this.
FYI, technically charging with any third-party device will void Zero's warranty. However, so far they have honored their warranty for people using their own charging devices.
If you blow up your bike with a fast charger, it's not their fault, but if that isn't what is causing an issue, then they will help you out.
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FYI, technically charging with any third-party device will void Zero's warranty.
I had no idea! Is this documented anywhere?
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FYI, technically charging with any third-party device will void Zero's warranty.
I had no idea! Is this documented anywhere?
In the US you could make an argument under the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions.
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
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Here's the thing, since 2013, Zero's battery pack will protect itself no matter what you do.
Trouble is if the charger isn't of high quality and tested, it can cause other problems which will cause damage to other things. And so this isn't Zero's fault. Just one example, if you connect a cheap charger to the accessory port that has large inrush capacitors it will instantly blow your charge fuse, which is built into the wiring harness itself and quite expensive and labor intensive to replace. This obviously is not Zero's fault. And if this fuse blows, your onboard charger will not work either. And I've seen this happen quite a few times.
That is one example and there are others as far as causing the contactor to open at high current loads because it wasn't listening to voltage, C rate, or temperature signals from the BMS, and this abrupt disconnect can cause voltage spikes over a thousand volts that destroy the main bike board, BMS, or controller itself.
So best is to use an official Zero charger, or one that has been tested and approved by Hollywood Electrics.
Oh and Scorpion, make sure you test ride the 2017 SR and DSR before you decide. The 2017 S and DS are about half way to a 2016 SR DSR anyway, so the more refined components and firmware are worth it. There are lots of little things that occurred in 2017 that aren't visible but make sensing current and reporting more reliable and therefore SOC even more accurate, the battery pack even more robust and safe as well as things you can see like the brake line routing. I would get a 2017 DS first, and the 2016 DSR next. Unless you can justify the 2017 DSR in which case I would choose that as it will be even stronger acceleration than the previous two.
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FYI, technically charging with any third-party device will void Zero's warranty.
I had no idea! Is this documented anywhere?
Yes, it is in the warranty.
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FYI, technically charging with any third-party device will void Zero's warranty.
I had no idea! Is this documented anywhere?
Yes, it is in the warranty.
Doesn't matter, law trumps warranty. They can refuse to cover damage caused by the third party device but not void the entire warranty just because you used it.
That law is the same reason we don't have Ford brand motor oil and use whatever brand RAM we want in our PCs. As soon as Keurig's patent ran out, everyone started making K-cups.
Just stating that using third party parts and supplies would void the warranty, would be a violation of the law.
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
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Right, but if the charger causes damage to components on the bike, this is not covered under warranty, only if its a Zero charger, which is tested and designed not to do this. That's why either you should get a Zero brand charger, or one that has been tested and designed to work with the Zero and proven not to cause damage like the ones from Hollywood Electrics.
If instead of Ford motor oil you used 5 quarts of cooking oil and your engine seized, ford would not cover it.
If you bought RAM from ebay that was a brand you never heard of, and it shorted your mother board it would not be covered
An example is about 8 years ago with Verizon flip phones, people would buy cheap wall replacement chargers, and the batteries would over 4 months swell, pop the case off the back, and the battery would get scorching hot and lose all talk time capacity.
The cheap Chinese charge cords would charge the battery too fast, overheat and damage it. Verizon did not warranty the batteries, instead they included notes to only use Verizon brand chargers.
If no damage occurs, you can use what ever charger you want, but if you make your own and you blow up al the boards from a voltage spike, this is not Zero's fault. Unless you are a power electronics technician, I would only use chargers from Zero or Hollywood Electrics for now until even more fail safes are put in place like the phone manufacturers use today. There are too many ways a simple mistake with a common server meanwell powersupply like I've seen on some DIY threads here can cause damage to the bike if the connection procedure isn't done properly each time and that would be to precharge the capacitors before connecting to the bike if the bike is on, or only connecting if the bike is off and the onboard charger is NOT plugged in, and then letting the Sevcon slowly precharge the caps in the accessory charger. The charge fuse was designed to protect the bike in a strange emergency, but never intended to be needed, so its location and design is built into the harness and the whole bike harness has to be replaced, or the harness has to be hacked with a knife and then for sure the warranty is invalid and it is no longer factory sealed. And with testing the Supercharger V1 over a year ago, one of the things that took so long was figuring out the conditions that caused the contactor to open, because when it did, the high voltage spike killed BMS's, Main Bike Boards, and we even killed Brandon's sevcon and he had to buy another and have Hollywood commission and program it for his motor offset. These are all things that took a lot of testing to figure out and build protections for.
Ask Doug S on this forum, if a charger isn't connected properly to the bike, it will in fact break the bike! His bike had to get shipped back to the factory last year for component replacement because of a 3rd party charger that had an error getting hooked up. It does happen and Doug is an Electrical Engineer with 30 years experience. But he wasn't privilege to the Zero systems and their tolerances, and to be honest, no one on this forum is, so it is advised against unless you are ok making a very expensive mistake.
Bottom line stick to the Zero or Hollywood Electrics tested chargers for now. Some may say 'I can do it cheaper myself or from somewhere else', but remember, the Hollywood Electrics name being attached to something means its been designed and tested many times to work with a Zero. There is a very important quality, assurance and peace of mind that comes with that.
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Today is Friday 13th, but i am happy like a kid. Why?
Today my new DSR 2016 10th Anniversary Edition was delivered.
She looks like an angel. Few minutes later i was driving her 2 km around my place. Wow, this feels really good. ;D
(The pic shows me millisecond prior to take off 8))
Hope that winter is going to be over soon. Could drive her only 2 km, due to missing license plates....., they will come on monday.
Thank you all here for giving me these valuable hints helping me in my buying decision.
Beside: Does anybody know if the anniversary edition, equipped with a charge tank, also comes with a Typ 2 cord?
My dealer told me there was no Typ 2 cord in the package. Odd or?
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Beside: Does anybody know if the anniversary edition, equipped with a charge tank, also comes with a Typ 2 cord?
My dealer told me there was no Typ 2 cord in the package. Odd or?
It does not come with a cord. In the US all the stations have their own cords so there is no need for you to carry one. In Europe you bring your own, I believe.
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Beside: Does anybody know if the anniversary edition, equipped with a charge tank, also comes with a Typ 2 cord?
My dealer told me there was no Typ 2 cord in the package. Odd or?
It does not come with a cord. In the US all the stations have their own cords so there is no need for you to carry one. In Europe you bring your own, I believe.
Thats a good solution, so one does not need to carry around the cable. However here in europe its another story. On the zero website they say that the european version of the charge tank comes along with a typ2 cable. It´s expensive. 250€ - 400€. So i hope they will deliver it, else this is really not fair. The charge tank should work out of the box and its advertised that it comes with the cable. Just wrote zero an e-mail, i will report what the outcome is.
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Congrats Scorpion! You're gonna love it!! I hope they get you the charge cord and it was just an oversight. Let us know when you hit 1000 km!
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Happy End!
Today i received a package with the charging cord for the charge tank from the dealer. He found it and send it to me.
So the anniversary edition comes with the charge cord too.
Now i am ready to try out the charging experience with the charge tank. At the end of the week it should be sunny. Still 21.2 F (-6 C), but if the roads are clear of snow i will do a test-drive.
If someone is interested i can post some pictures of that Type2 -> Type1 charging cable.
Today i also have registered the Zero to get a license plate. They obviously had some problems to categorize the zero in their database. Q:"Is it really completely electric?" A:"Yes it is". Q:"Really?". Good thing i had the CoC papers with me ;-).