ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: ZeroPointZero on November 13, 2016, 12:23:06 AM
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I can use this QC in combination with a power tank right? How does this thing compare to a diginow or OEM quick charger?
https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/elcon-quick-charger/
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Elcon 2500 Pro and Con.
Pro: It's a reliable way to add 2.5kW charging; no thermal problems just co nect to accessory charger port and it is working.
Con: Bulky shape and needs several $100 worth of adapters to be as useful as can be.
Where are you planning to mount it?
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I have two of them in side cases that have quick change mounts. Easy to take off and put on when I need the chargers and can charge a 2016 SR w/PT in two hours.
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I want to get one but hundreds of dollars more to connect it to something other than a 110 outlet. Can you even get 2500w from the 110v it comes with?
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I want to get one but hundreds of dollars more to connect it to something other than a 110 outlet. Can you even get 2500w from the 110v it comes with?
Nope, because math.
VAC * Amps * 0.707 = Watts
110 * A * 0.707 = 2500
A = 32.15
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I bought one but didn't buy the J1772 adapter from them. Has anyone made their own to fit the Elcon charger? I'd really love some information on it.
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I bought one but didn't buy the J1772 adapter from them. Has anyone made their own to fit the Elcon charger? I'd really love some information on it.
I have. It's not complex; I assume you've already consulted google image search or some such for 'j1772 circuit'. The only caveat to the [diode, two resistors, and a switch] minimum setup is that you need to be semi-aware enough to not draw more current than the station can supply. This would rarely be a problem if you only are using one elcon and the onboard charger together; the vast majority of stations can supply current higher than this.
If you wanted to really idiot-proof your setup you could more closely follow the j1772 spec and read in the pulse train that tells you what current to draw and have a microcontroller and some relays remove any current-draw decision complexities from the user.
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I bought one but didn't buy the J1772 adapter from them. Has anyone made their own to fit the Elcon charger? I'd really love some information on it.
I have. It's not complex; I assume you've already consulted google image search or some such for 'j1772 circuit'. The only caveat to the [diode, two resistors, and a switch] minimum setup is that you need to be semi-aware enough to not draw more current than the station can supply. This would rarely be a problem if you only are using one elcon and the onboard charger together; the vast majority of stations can supply current higher than this.
If you wanted to really idiot-proof your setup you could more closely follow the j1772 spec and read in the pulse train that tells you what current to draw and have a microcontroller and some relays remove any current-draw decision complexities from the user.
Wow. I just noticed the Elcon charger's plug had three horizontal male prongs. I just want to know where to find and buy the female counterpart to make the J1772 adapter. Beautiful setup btw.
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Elcon 2500 Pro and Con.
Pro: It's a reliable way to add 2.5kW charging; no thermal problems just co nect to accessory charger port and it is working.
Con: Bulky shape and needs several $100 worth of adapters to be as useful as can be.
Where are you planning to mount it?
Probably in side case. Gotta save up for the PT before I can spring for the quick charger.
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The Elcon Chargers are what Terry Hershner and I have used to cross the country multiple times. It is incredibly reliable and the customer support from Hollywood electrics is incredible.
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Yup what Ben said.
And if you are used to making cables and have proven to do it reliably without making crimping mistakes or shorts than go ahead and make your own cable, but you know who you are.
The rest of you I would recommend getting the cable from Hollywood Electrics. You get what you pay for and trust me Hollywood Electrics puts the quality of components and quality of workmanship into it to make sure it doesn't short out. Making your own with cheap Chinese components can prove to be unreliable and short right when you need them most and are hundreds of miles from home. I've had cheap J plugs fail quite a few times. Not worth it. Get the right cable for the chargers.
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Wow. I just noticed the Elcon charger's plug had three horizontal male prongs. I just want to know where to find and buy the female counterpart to make the J1772 adapter. Beautiful setup btw.
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Google C19 and C20 connectors. You hereby stand accused of never having worked in a datacenter ;D
edit: I also well-support the statements of the others in this thread, though. Harlan and Hollywood Electrics are basically this forum's favorite store in the world, despite paying California prices for high quality labor and parts.
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Wow. I just noticed the Elcon charger's plug had three horizontal male prongs. I just want to know where to find and buy the female counterpart to make the J1772 adapter. Beautiful setup btw.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Google C19 and C20 connectors. You hereby stand accused of never having worked in a datacenter ;D
edit: I also well-support the statements of the others in this thread, though. Harlan and Hollywood Electrics are basically this forum's favorite store in the world, despite paying California prices for high quality labor and parts.
That's exactly what I needed. Thanks. I tried googling three pronged horizontal plug and came up with a bunch of wrong answers.
I don't refute Hollywood Electrics ability. But when you already have cables but just lack the c19 plug end and want to customize your sidecase installation then doing it yourself is the only way.
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For those that have one or even two quick charger, do you leave the Anderson connector plugged in all the time so you can just plug in to a level 2 or do you keep everything unplugged until you need to connect it all up?
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For those that have one or even two quick charger, do you leave the Anderson connector plugged in all the time so you can just plug in to a level 2 or do you keep everything unplugged until you need to connect it all up?
I have one Elcon (as an assist for a Supercharger) and plug it in only when it's hooked up. There are a number of factors:
- Weathering: You do not want these cables to get damaged and then have an electrical fault under load. So, leaving them plugged in should mean leaving them protected and held securely, i.e. away from the passenger peg, probably sheathed, and routed maybe up and in to the tail or something.
- Using chargers is best done by only connecting up the output after the charger has turned on, and making sure that the contactor is closed before connecting or turning on the charger.
- Combining more than one charger adds the extra complication of making sure not to make a connection between chargers with one energized and one de-energized to avoid a power rush. For two Elcons, have a cable harness that powers both up simultaneously.
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Awesome info, thanks! For those that installed a quick charger in your hard bag(s), do you leave your case open when charging or did you modify your case so only the cord sticks out?
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I leave the lids open on my side cases when charging.
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I leave the lids open on my side cases when charging.
Did you drill air holes in the bottom or sides of your bags? My Elcon should be here any day and I was wondering if i need ed to drill holes for better air circulation, for example holes on the side where the elcon's fan is
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dukecola,
I have my Elcons mounted in the 37 liter SW-MOTECH side cases with quick release mounts. Have never drilled any kind of holes in them for air circulation. I live in North Carolina and have charged in temps from mid 90's down to about mid 20's or so. If it is warm the lids are fully open. If it is raining out I will have the lids partially closed just to keep the rain out. Have never noticed any issues. There is room enough in the side cases to carry other power adaptors and such. Something to keep in mind is that the charging algorithms on the 2016 SR have changed compared to the 2014 that I had. Charging at the very end slows down a lot! I understand sometimes you really do need your battery at 100% before you take off. But that last 1-2% can take 15-20 minutes to get. When I see the light on the Elcons turn green I wait about 5 minutes and then unplug. That will put you at 98-99% SOC. The dash may be showing 90% or so when the green lights shows on your Elcons but when you unplug everything and turn your bike on you will see 98-99% SOC. Just know that your Elcons are a better indicator of when your bike is fully charged than what your dash may show.
Vinny
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Thanks Vinny, good info. I wont get a chance to use mine before April, just got them for calendar year tax credit
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Not before April? :o Oh no!
Get yourself some heated gear and ride year round if you can!
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Hello,
I would like to buy an Elcon 2.5KW for my '15 SR. In the website they mentioned that you can use one of the 10 charging curve. Do you know which one is the right one for Zero battery? Also, the voltage should be set to 116V correct?
Thanks,
Giacomo
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Hello,
I would like to buy an Elcon 2.5KW for my '15 SR. In the website they mentioned that you can use one of the 10 charging curve. Do you know which one is the right one for Zero battery? Also, the voltage should be set to 116V correct?
Thanks,
Giacomo
It will all be set up for you when you get it. Hollywood Electrics programs the CC/CV algorithms specifically for the Zero, upgrades the input and output connectors for the high current to increase reliability, adds a BMS controlled enable to control the charger which prevents over voltage or over temp of the cells, and has a J1772 harness solution that has the mating end of the higher current connectors and also an onboard charger pigtail. They really did a good job at this.
https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/elcon-quick-charger/
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Not before April? :o Oh no!
Get yourself some heated gear and ride year round if you can!
haha, it's not the cold it's all the salt and sand on the roads, and of course snow!
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Can elcon 'charger works without the onboard' charger connected?
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Can elcon 'charger works without the onboard' charger connected?
Not exactly, but if you buy Hollywood Electrics' version with their cabling, you wind up using the Elcon in parallel with the onboard charger, so that you can turn the bike off and keep charging at 3.8kW.
Ref. https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/elcon-quick-charger/
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Can elcon 'charger works without the onboard' charger connected?
You can use Elcon chargers either with the onboard charger or without the onboard charger. To use an Elcon charger without the onboard charger you just need to start the charging process with the bike powered on.
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Hello,
I would like to buy an Elcon 2.5KW for my '15 SR. In the website they mentioned that you can use one of the 10 charging curve. Do you know which one is the right one for Zero battery? Also, the voltage should be set to 116V correct?
Thanks,
Giacomo
It will all be set up for you when you get it. Hollywood Electrics programs the CC/CV algorithms specifically for the Zero, upgrades the input and output connectors for the high current to increase reliability, adds a BMS controlled enable to control the charger which prevents over voltage or over temp of the cells, and has a J1772 harness solution that has the mating end of the higher current connectors and also an onboard charger pigtail. They really did a good job at this.
https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/elcon-quick-charger/ (https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/elcon-quick-charger/)
Terry, while I bet the Hollywoodelectrics Elcon is the best at $1300. Yet are there any DYI people making buying the $675 Elcon http://www.elconchargers.com/catalog/item/7344653/7638094.htm (http://www.elconchargers.com/catalog/item/7344653/7638094.htm), have Elcon program it for Zero, and then updating the cables to what is best? Seems like the only hard part would be the BMS control. Sound like Elcon programs them to the customer spec for free.
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Thanks Brian and Benswing,
Another question : Benswing, must have the bike powered on all the time during charging process when i have only elcon charger ?
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must have the bike powered on all the time during charging process when i have only elcon charger ?
No, you don't need to keep the bike powered on. The Elcon sends a signal through the accessory port that keeps the bike in charge mode, but it can't initiate charge mode through the accessory port.
The Charge Tank works the same way.
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Thanks Brian.
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must have the bike powered on all the time during charging process when i have only elcon charger ?
No, you don't need to keep the bike powered on. The Elcon sends a signal through the accessory port that keeps the bike in charge mode, but it can't initiate charge mode through the accessory port.
Right, on the Elcon it's the part that Hollywood Electrics adds that allows it to do this, otherwise you need to leave the key in the bike and in the "on" position while charging with the Elcon alone.
Killroy, you can definitely get the actual Elcon less expensive in other places, but the time one would spend to figure out, do and make everything that Hollywood Electrics does to make this work with the Zero and all the testing and refinement, is well worth the time most people on this forum would spend and in the end still not have something as quality is my guess. The other thing is if you do something wrong, you could mess up the bike by blowing the charge fuse, or not adhering to the BMS signal while the bike is on and overcharge causing damage to the batteries. If you feel comfortable doing all this on your own and know the risks and accept them then go for it sure! But I'm definitely recommending most people on this forum just buy the plug and play kit from Hollywood and have peace of mind it isn't going to malfunction and leave you stranded.
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I agree with you Electric Terry , i am sure Hollywood Electrics is the best.
But i think if you use always the onboard charger first and after you plug one or 2 Elcons without bms ' connection, you will have the battery' bms proctection . If you have overvoltage or overheating ' problems , the bms will open the contactor. The risk is low.
It is my opinion, i am not a specialist.
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Got my elcon last week. Won't be using it till spring though but have a hookup question since it came with no instructions. There are 2 connectors on the output side,one for the aux port and a round one. Where does the small round connector go? TKS.
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must have the bike powered on all the time during charging process when i have only elcon charger ?
No, you don't need to keep the bike powered on. The Elcon sends a signal through the accessory port that keeps the bike in charge mode, but it can't initiate charge mode through the accessory port.
Right, on the Elcon it's the part that Hollywood Electrics adds that allows it to do this, otherwise you need to leave the key in the bike and in the "on" position while charging with the Elcon alone.
Killroy, you can definitely get the actual Elcon less expensive in other places, but the time one would spend to figure out, do and make everything that Hollywood Electrics does to make this work with the Zero and all the testing and refinement, is well worth the time most people on this forum would spend and in the end still not have something as quality is my guess. The other thing is if you do something wrong, you could mess up the bike by blowing the charge fuse, or not adhering to the BMS signal while the bike is on and overcharge causing damage to the batteries. If you feel comfortable doing all this on your own and know the risks and accept them then go for it sure! But I'm definitely recommending most people on this forum just buy the plug and play kit from Hollywood and have peace of mind it isn't going to malfunction and leave you stranded.
I get the risk vs reward of the Hollywood Electric Elcon, but for the good of Zero owners, I think we should have a better value option.
The Hollywood Electric Elcon with J1772 adapter is $1700 plus tax and shipping. For that price, I would rather have the clean looking, easy to use Zero Charge Tank.
A 1 hr Fast Charger like the Diginow would be great, but I still think $3000 is steep and that whole effort has stalled out for Version 2 to come out. Also, the one person that I know that has the Diginow will not let go of his Elcons because of Diginow issues.
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I get the risk vs reward of the Hollywood Electric Elcon, but for the good of Zero owners, I think we should have a better value option.
All of these options have tradeoffs. Even the Eltek Flatpack builds exist within this space of tradeoffs - sure, they're inexpensive and can be made reliable if you have the skills, but hardened for vehicle travel they're not!
The Hollywood Electric Elcon with J1772 adapter is $1700 plus tax and shipping. For that price, I would rather have the clean looking, easy to use Zero Charge Tank.
The Zero Charge Tank is not available for that price - it's available for $1000 more (possibly not including dealer installation). But I'm not criticizing your preferences - they're absolutely valid. The Elcon 2500 packaging was created before the Charge Tank and has less investment put into it. In exchange, you get a simpler product that works for a different (less convenient) use case. It's just market differentiation.
A 1 hr Fast Charger like the Diginow would be great, but I still think $3000 is steep and that whole effort has stalled out for Version 2 to come out. Also, the one person that I know that has the Diginow will not let go of his Elcons because of Diginow issues.
The effort stalled because the V1 arrangement did not scale, more or less, which explains both issues. It's not a coincidence that Elcon was chosen for the newer effort - Elcon seems to manage quality in a very reasonable way because they target forklifts and light trucks. I think V2 will have a different story even if the price point doesn't change.
I, too, am keeping my Elcon 2500 until I have a reliable replacement, which is very likely one or two of DigiNow's V2 chargers; this is partly to have a backup and partly to use two J-plugs at the same time.
And I think the price point per power density / convenience relationship will not change for a while. It's just very expensive to get engineer person-years dedicated to make these products and get them fully tested and built right to last on vehicles, and to ensure that the manufacturing run is large enough to spread out the risk (again, a very good reason that the best parts of a Zero get tested first on the forklift and light industrial truck market).
For what it's worth, I decided to start elaborating on these options on the wiki. Eventually it should be a straightforward product comparison:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#Level_2_AC (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#Level_2_AC)
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Is it possible to plug 2 differents chargers in the auxiliary port at the same time with Y adaptor, like 1 elcon 2500 and 1 delta quick charger ?
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Is it possible to plug 2 differents chargers in the auxiliary port at the same time with Y adaptor, like 1 elcon 2500 and 1 delta quick charger ?
Yes, I have been using 2 Elcons connected via a Y-adapter for 3 years now.
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thanks, but can i plug 2 chargers with different KW , one 1000Watts and one with 2500 watts with y-adaptor in the aux. port ?
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I agree with you Electric Terry , i am sure Hollywood Electrics is the best.
But i think if you use always the onboard charger first and after you plug one or 2 Elcons without bms ' connection, you will have the battery' bms proctection . If you have overvoltage or overheating ' problems , the bms will open the contactor. The risk is low.
It is my opinion, i am not a specialist.
As far as I know there is no "real" communication possible in between external chargers and the BMS. The only thing which can be done with the additional ports on the auxiliary charge port, is to send a 5V signal relative to B- to it, to get the contactor closed to establish the connection to the battery.
So even if you are connecting something which the BMS considers as not suitable, it should be able to open the contactor at any time to protect the battery.
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I've done it with two dissimilar sized homemade chargers, one at 1200 watts and the other at 2000 watts, no issues after a year of use
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I've done it with two dissimilar sized homemade chargers, one at 1200 watts and the other at 2000 watts, no issues after a year of use
Ok Thanks
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The Zero Charge Tank is not available for that price - it's available for $1000 more (possibly not including dealer installation). But I'm not criticizing your preferences - they're absolutely valid.
I checked with Zero/BMW and they said that the Charge Tank installation is $200 and the advertised price is $2000, so if someone likes the clean, OEM look that is a good value.
Now if Zero would double the charge rate, now we are talking!
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The Zero Charge Tank is not available for that price - it's available for $1000 more (possibly not including dealer installation). But I'm not criticizing your preferences - they're absolutely valid.
I checked with Zero/BMW and they said that the Charge Tank installation is $200 and the advertised price is $2000, so if someone likes the clean, OEM look that is a good value.
Oops, I thought of the Power Tank cost, not Charge Tank. My bad.