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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Curt on November 07, 2016, 02:30:50 PM
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Hi all,
I got a new 2016 FX one week ago and am thrilled with it. It's my new commuter toy, and I can't stop going for rides! The technology is incredible.
There are a couple issues I'll need to fix, both having to do with the front wheel.
The main one is that the spokes break ridiculously easily. One broke while I was riding a demo. On mine, two spokes have broken in a week. I've never had a spoke break on any bike, not even during a decade of hard dirt biking in places like Moab. This bike breaks spokes easily during moderate braking on the street, always at the nipple threads. One broke coming up to a stop light, and another at the bottom of a parking garage ramp. I have a dealer appointment Tuesday and will see what they can do apart from point fixes. It's pretty clearly a major manufacturing defect at Zero or their supplier.
The other is the front brake that sounds like a train horn and terrifies women and small children. I have been working around this (and the spoke problem) by rear-braking as much as possible, but that's obviously unacceptable. I see posts here with some suggestions, including getting new pads, or trying to true up the calipers or float the rotor.
A possible third issue is the whine of the motor. It seems much louder than the demo bike, as if the bearings might be out of tolerance. That's disappointing because it makes people turn around when they hear me coming. But if it's normal I'm prepared to live with it. Maybe it'll be fixed by the time I upgrade to a 2018!
Cheers.
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The motor squeal might be because the rear wheel isn't positioned properly.
Maybe it's also realated to the spokes breaking.
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Before you ride the bike again, I'd lift the front wheel and roughly check spoke tension with the 'tap test' on each spoke. When I'm finished adjusting my spokes they all make a 'ting' sound in roughly the same pitch range, while a loose one makes a 'tak' noise that's hard to miss. My guess is your wheel will be all over the place. I would then adjust them all to roughly the same pitch if possible, but make sure the spoke you're adjusting is actually tightening and not just twisting in place, which will happen if the nipple bottoms on the spoke threads before full tension is achieved. Obviously replace the broken ones ASAP, if you can.
Re the brakes - it appears others have had some success with simple solutions, but I did not. I'm still trying new pads for more braking power (OEM Kawasaki's are on there now), but no squealing remains at all.
I've broken three spokes so far. I'll be having my '14 wheel set relaced w/stainless spokes when the new rims go on, now I'm thinking about doing the same with my '16 wheels too. :(
Ray
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Sounds like your belt is too tight.
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Sounds like your belt is too tight.
@Curt belt or chain drive?
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Thanks guys.
Ray, I did strum the spokes and found they were not uniform like my other bikes. But I didn't dare adjust them and assume the risk of being faulted for it.
For the bearing noise I'll check the wheel location and belt tension. A Gates 91107 tool is on its way from Amazon. But I have to wait for the bike to come back from the shop.
I dropped it off today. They now have thee bikes in the queue for broken spokes. It turns out the entire wheel must be returned because spokes aren't sold individually. I don't have much confidence that a replacement wheel would be any better, but this will get sorted out one way or another. As I see it, there are five possibilities--
- The new wheel is fine
- The -- ummm -- new new wheel is fine
- The new new new wheel is fine
- I find an expert who can re-lace with stainless steel
- I find a KTM or other replacement wheel (but I really like these flat black wheels)
For now I'm back to commuting on the 500 EXC... not the end of the world. :)
Cheers,
Curt
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Thanks guys.
Ray, I did strum the spokes and found they were not uniform like my other bikes. But I didn't dare adjust them and assume the risk of being faulted for it.
For the bearing noise I'll check the wheel location and belt tension. A Gates 91107 tool is on its way from Amazon. But I have to wait for the bike to come back from the shop.
I dropped it off today. They now have thee bikes in the queue for broken spokes. It turns out the entire wheel must be returned because spokes aren't sold individually. I don't have much confidence that a replacement wheel would be any better, but this will get sorted out one way or another. As I see it, there are five possibilities--
- The new wheel is fine
- The -- ummm -- new new wheel is fine
- The new new new wheel is fine
- I find an expert who can re-lace with stainless steel
- I find a KTM or other replacement wheel (but I really like these flat black wheels)
For now I'm back to commuting on the 500 EXC... not the end of the world. :)
Cheers,
Curt
uh oh. I hope they didnt have a batch run out the door with the spokes not set.
As far as I have read (I dont have an FX) I have not heard of anyone having spoke issues.
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I've had two broken spokes on my 2016 FX. They gave me a new wheel under warranty. The spoke heads were badly stripped on the original wheel, probably way over torqued and then adjusted. No problem with the new wheel. Looks like a supplier issue but I'd like heavier spokes for my off road use.
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When I picked mine out at the dealer (one-year used 2015) it had a broken spoke. They already had a new wheel for it and mounted before delivery. Spokes on the new wheel look like stainless, shinier than the other one.
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
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Had a broken spoke on the rear wheel on my 2013 XU and my Zero Dealer had to order one, so I ordered two since sometimes other spokes break on centering the wheel. After a week I got two 8mm to short, then I rode for 2 month with a broken spoke and my dealer said, there are no new spokes for the 2013 available anymore, so he managed to get some used ones.
Replacing the spoke my mechanician said all spokes where mounted with a too high tension. So my question is,
How to adjust the right tension of spokes and how to control/measure this to prevent a further spoke broke ?
Getting a "ting" sound is not sufficient information, so maybe it can be estimated by a rough pitch could help.
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How to adjust the right tension of spokes
Just one example of an MC spoke torque wrench (http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/201513831176?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true). Obviously this won't help much if the wheel is made wrong.
Getting a "ting" sound is not sufficient information, so maybe it can be estimated by a rough pitch could help.
My replacement '16 FX F/R wheels - which are both true and assembled correctly - have spoke pitches in the E4 to C5 range as delivered.
Ray
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My '15 SR also makes what I think is more wine at between 15-20mph than it should. The dealer acknowledged that, but said the bikes all make different sounds and mine did not sound worrisome to him. But it does turn heads, and not in a good way at those low speeds due to the whine. It is almost as loud as my Vectrix was. At least it is quiet at lower and higher speeds...
I'll get it checked next year before the warranty expires in case the noise will have increased.
I have no easy way to check alignment of the belt, wheel, front sprocket. The belt in the rear is in the middle of the teeth, a half mm away from the edge and not all the way touching it as it was initially. I can't see the front, but that whining noise is not from the belt, it is clearly from the motor. The belt makes different noises that vary depending on how hard I accelerate, while this whine is constant and only depends on the speed.
A possible third issue is the whine of the motor. It seems much louder than the demo bike, as if the bearings might be out of tolerance. That's disappointing because it makes people turn around when they hear me coming. But if it's normal I'm prepared to live with it. Maybe it'll be fixed by the time I upgrade to a 2018!
Cheers.
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I got my FX back with a new front wheel. I'm crossing my fingers -- so far, so good.
As to the motor whine, I measured my belt tension to be so high as to be out of range of the measurement tool (>150KG). After lowering it, the motor is far quieter. The belt adjusters are extremely sensitive; I don't know if it took even a single turn to bring it in range.
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I got my FX back with a new front wheel. I'm crossing my fingers -- so far, so good.
As to the motor whine, I measured my belt tension to be so high as to be out of range of the measurement tool (>150KG). After lowering it, the motor is far quieter. The belt adjusters are extremely sensitive; I don't know if it took even a single turn to bring it in range.
Glad you sorted it. When the motor sounds like a "Wookiee", the belt is too tight. Check out my thread on making the Krikit easier to use.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6180.msg47269#msg47269 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6180.msg47269#msg47269)
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My belt is currently a little on the loose side, closer to 20. The motor whine is still there and is not related to the belt tension. Changing the belt tension does change the sounds that come from the belt, but not the motor whine in my case. The belt noises do vary with the amount of acceleration (and speed), while the motor noise is there even if I'm just coasting and only depends on speed.
I got my FX back with a new front wheel. I'm crossing my fingers -- so far, so good.
As to the motor whine, I measured my belt tension to be so high as to be out of range of the measurement tool (>150KG). After lowering it, the motor is far quieter. The belt adjusters are extremely sensitive; I don't know if it took even a single turn to bring it in range.
Glad you sorted it. When the motor sounds like a "Wookiee", the belt is too tight. Check out my thread on making the Krikit easier to use.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6180.msg47269#msg47269 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6180.msg47269#msg47269)
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seriously take it back to the dealer and have them true the wheel. do not fool yourself and attempt yourself. once properly trued the wheel will no longer suffer broken spokes and brake squeal will be dramatically reduced if not resolved.
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I have a 2016 FX with 1,500 relatively easy on and off road miles. Really frustrated with the extremely loud front brake squeal at very low speeds. New pads and rotor did not help at all. I lubed the backs of the pads, something the dealer for some reason did not do, but it has only made a small improvement.
I also broke 2 spokes in two days! The first one I intended to ignore, but the second, exactly opposite the first, made me question the integrity of the whole wheel and I parked the bike until I could get it to the dealer. Ended up buying a new wheel since it was cheaper than fixing the old one and I was out of warranty. Now can’t find spokes to rebuild the old one in my spare time. To be fair to Zero, the replacement wheel was around $300 with bearings and pre-balanced which is not as ridiculous as some other motorcycle wheels.
Also very frustrated the rear brake has gone out twice. First time the master cylinder needed to be rebuilt (still under warranty). Second time required re-bleeding the line which makes no sense with such few miles.
I expect better from Zero as the bike, which I normally really, really love, was pretty expensive. Service often takes a long time as the dealers are a bit far for me and not within the bike’s range so I have to hook up my trailer, etc. Contacting the manufacturer has been even more frustrating (rep said the sound was because the bike was quiet and I was not used to that — I OWN 6 motorcycles, have owned my Zero for 5 years, and know noisy brakes!).
I am tempted to try non—sintered pads to help with the noise given my relatively light riding. However, with the unreliable rear brake and my occasional off-road use, I am less sure. Any advice on that? And, on where to find a spokes kit for the 21 x 1.85 front rim?
Ride safe!
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If you had the master cylinder replaced, then the line having to be re-bled over time would be the fault of whoever did the warranty repair. Miles wouldn't have mattered; that would have been pure time. A microfracture somewhere along the line would do it, too, but again, that would just slowly take time to show itself.
There was a discussion this last year where some of the other guys found a less squeaky brake pad. I wouldn't know how to find that thread... But there is a solution out there. Maybe in the unofficial manual?
-Crissa
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I replaced the stock front brake pads on my 2018 S with H-H sintered EBC brand pads and that completely solved the loud squealing that I was hearing from the stock pads. You will have to research the internet, or ask your dealer to check for a compatible EBC (or other aftermarket brand) pad set for your bike, as your brakes might be different than mine.
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I have a 2016 FX with 1,500 relatively easy on and off road miles. Really frustrated with the extremely loud front brake squeal at very low speeds. New pads and rotor did not help at all. I lubed the backs of the pads, something the dealer for some reason did not do, but it has only made a small improvement.
That was me originally posting about the banshee squeal 4 years ago. I still use only stock pads, but long ago figured out how to stop the squeal! I posted a thread about it, but other people got mixed results. I noticed that it never squealed in the rainy season, which led me to find that a good splash of water over the rotor prevents any squeal whatsoever for about a week! Splash it after arriving home, and the next day it should be good. I keep a bottle of water in the garage for the weekly splashing (in the hot, dry months).
Regarding the broken spokes, you might easily have had a wheel from the bad batch. However, my spokes broke within the first couple hundred miles during mild braking. The same for an FX loaner they provided me.
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That sounds just like you washed off the brake dust a bit though, no? (or whatever other dust it might have been)
Cas :)
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That sounds just like you washed off the brake dust a bit though, no? (or whatever other dust it might have been)
I tried to test that theory by blowing it out with compressed air, but that doesn't work at all! I think there is either moisture penetration into the pad material, or corrosion on the rotor. The latter theory may be supported by me having to replace the rotor at the same time as the pads.
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Rotors tend to have replace in time rather than miles, whereas pads tend to be mile, not years. Electrics just tend to not ise the miles on the pads so they catch up to the rotors.
The inverse of someone who lives in the mountains driving an ICE and ends up glazing the rotors with how hard they use the pads when they do use them.
I don't have anything to offer to the squeaking. I'm just told give them a good stop each ride to rub off any oxidation.
-Crissa
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Rotors tend to have replace in time rather than miles, whereas pads tend to be mile, not years.
That would explain it (3.5 years to replacement).
I'm just told give them a good stop each ride to rub off any oxidation.
I tried running the throttle hard against the brakes for half a mile or so to get them really hot. They stop shrieking when they begin to fade. But then the squeal comes right back.
Rainy season looks to be over but I have yet to get any squeal. It's coming though!
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I switched to Brembo HSS https://www.google.be/search?q=brembo+07BB03SA&ie=UTF-8&oe= (https://www.google.be/search?q=brembo+07BB03SA&ie=UTF-8&oe=) pads today. Noise only happens when braking gradually and adding a bit more brake on the last meters to come to stop, only the last moment a quick shriek sounds. It's definitely better than stock pads (which would make a noise sooner and a bit longer) but it's not eliminated. The Brembo pads are installed without anti squeal shims as they do not come with any.
I also tried kapton tape between the stock pads and the shims before with rather good results.
Anyway, I would love to get rid of the noise completely but I still haven't found the final fix.
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Switch to EBC pads. Bed them in carefully and you’re set, no squeal all feel. The ‘15+ FX front is FA181R if I remember correctly. These are the semi sintered. They also make carbon, organic and such which will be even quieter but won’t last as long. I also broke several front spokes but I was jumping over speed humps at 50 mph. They snapped right at the nipples so I think they were overnighted?! I removed the wheel, tire and rim strip. Ordered new spokes and nipples plus extras as I could not get the broken spokes out. Trued up the rim and put zip ties where the spokes cross over. Not sure if this helps but I figured it would prevent a broken spoke from jamming the front wheel. I have since swapped over to FXS wheels so no longer an issue.