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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: MajorMajor on October 15, 2016, 02:02:00 AM
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I have a Zero FXS.
I usually ride daily and charge the bike all night.
For the next 13 days I won't be riding.
I can think of three options:
1. This isn't a big deal. Keep it plugged in throughout the entire time and keep the bike covered (maybe throw an extra chain on it).
2. It would be better for the battery life to drop the charge to 60% for the 11 days and leave it unplugged.
3. Charge it to 100% and leave it unplugged because it might be a fire hazard.
Is there any reason not to go with option 1?
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Can't think of any to be honest! For two weeks option one seems perfectly reasonable to me.
If you were storing it for a couple months or shipping it. Maybe option two. And options three is you are plugged into a sketchy outlet.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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I think it's safest to go with #1 if the circuit breaker and smoke detectors are in good working order. The bike must be put on charger within 24 hours if fully discharged and within 90 days even if fully charged. My interpretation of the way Zero specifies battery capacity is that the difference between maximum and nominal provides a buffer to prevent overcharging.
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It seems that it's recommended to store Li-Ion batteries at about 40% charge rather than fully charged. How does that equate to the usual practice of keeping a Zero fully charged when not in use? Is it just that leaving your bike at 40â„… would be a pain?
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I've been asking myself the same question... Some chemistries suffer more than others when left or kept fully charged, but I don't know under which category does Zero fall and whether the factory recommendation to keep plugged-in is to ensure cell balancing takes place and to prevent accidental discharge at the expense of battery life, or if it truly does not affect the battery that much and is OK to do it and to have access to the full range every time...
Oh, but for the 13 days unused, if this was my bike, I'd definitely keep it unplugged, especially if in a public space. Maybe even take the 2 batteries out of the bike. 2 weeks is nothing - the battery should barely lose any charge over that period of time.
It seems that it's recommended to store Li-Ion batteries at about 40% charge rather than fully charged. How does that equate to the usual practice of keeping a Zero fully charged when not in use? Is it just that leaving your bike at 40â„… would be a pain?
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I believe manual says keep it plugged in.... even if fully charged... just bought one, and actually read some of the manual LOL
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leave it with some 40-ish% charge. Li-ion of any chemistry type don't like to be 100% charged and/or be in hot condition for a long time.
The manual only tells you to keep the bike plugged for practical reasons. Zero don't want you to spread the word that you forgot to charge, and can't go anywhere.
I left my bike for 2,5 months with 30% and got home and it still said 30% charge (unplugged)
Read batteryuniversity.com for some knowledge about the most expensive part of you bike.
Greetings from the Netherlands..
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Not sure about the newest models, but my 2012 XU and 2013 FX both said on the first page of the manual
to place on charger as soon as removed from crate. Then to keep plugged in whenever not being ridden.
Warning that failure to do so would void the warranty. Just read the opening of the 2016 FX FXs manual
Says the same thing. Keep plugged in even if fully charged.
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Option 1 and don't worry about it. If you were storing for a couple of months or so, my answer would be different.
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Allright...
Then search for 'notes from a Farasis engineer' on this forum,
And read all about why li-ions do NOT like to be 100% Soc all the time, and in particular about our bikes.
Keep in mind that it is advice from one of the "designers' of our batteries...
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Allright...
Then search for 'notes from a Farasis engineer' on this forum,
And read all about why li-ions do NOT like to be 100% Soc all the time, and in particular about our bikes.
Keep in mind that it is advice from one of the "designers' of our batteries...
Do we know that Zeros are charged to 100% SOC? Nominal/Maximum capacity = about 88% across the line-up. Maybe not optimal but enough to balance risks and rewards?
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two options.
1. plug it in and dont worry about it. Nothing bad will happen.
2. stress about it not being at the ideal voltage for battery storage. stress about the BMS discharge rate. stress about if it should be plugged in or not. come to some odd conclusions, maybe something like a timer scheduled plug or similar... stress about it more. end up with the exact same battery life as #1 guy, but your hair is grayer (or missing)
(btw do NOT use a normal timer for charging.. they're not rated for continuous high current usage, even if they say 1500w.. thats something you SHOULD stress about if you do it.)
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Park it. Walk away. Enjoy not having an oil spot under it when you come back. 😁
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Allright...
Then search for 'notes from a Farasis engineer' on this forum,
And read all about why li-ions do NOT like to be 100% Soc all the time, and in particular about our bikes.
Keep in mind that it is advice from one of the "designers' of our batteries...
Do we know that Zeros are charged to 100% SOC? Nominal/Maximum capacity = about 88% across the line-up. Maybe not optimal but enough to balance risks and rewards?
0-100% on Zero indicated SoC is 20-80% actual SoC. FYI I have met that engineer and many others. Do not worry about this. The Battery article on the wiki captures all of these concerns and more:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Battery
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Great. That guide explains really well why leaving the bike plugged in all the time might not be perfect in theory but is nothing to worry about.
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When going out of town I park mine at my parent's house - my dad or one of my brothers takes it from there, or my sister-in-law.
Or another rider I know.
(I've had a couple co-workers turn it down.
(I presume because a good mid-westerner declines anything when first offered.))
By loaning it out I build an unofficial plugshare network of my own, I've got a mental map of half a couple stops in the area I could leave my bike overnight to charge and possibly leave on an ICE to get home. (not that I have yet)
But when I can't find anyone - I leave it plugged in. Though I wouldn't hesitate to leave it unplugged at anything over 50%.
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I'd be hesitant to leave it plugged-in for extended periods of time when unused, especially in a public place. I'm more worried about someone doing something silly with the electric cord, or some spike on the grid frying the bike's electronics, or the charger failing and causing a circuit breaker to trip and disrupt other users while the owner is away for 2 weeks. While I have not seen reports of fires with the Zeros while charging due to some failure, I've seen them for some other electric bikes. Why increase your chances of any of that happening if you don't have to??? There is simply no justification for risking these things when the bike is perfectly capable of spending a few weeks unplugged, given a sufficient initial charge. Other than convenience, I have not seen 1 reason that plugging the bike all the time is better than keeping it unplugged and charging only when needed (of course, proper care near low SoC and high SoC applies, and if what's that is unclear to the user, then by all means, keep it plugged in to be on the safe side). For those citing the user manual as the gospel - I'm pretty sure what's in there is adequate advice for the average Joe who does not need to be bothered to think about the bike's SoC or could forget it unplugged for months and kill the battery from over-discharging. Not necessarily the best advice for any one given situation though...
EDIT: I got some regulated power supplies at home, mainly for use with computers and other home electronics. They have relays to control spikes in the circuit that the filtering can't handle, so when they work I can hear them. I quite often hear them kick-in, so the grid power is less than perfect and could potentially damage sensitive electronics, including the Zero. I certainly would not want to have the Zero plugged-in during a lightning storm nearby. And keeping the bike plugged in at all times greatly increases the chance that it will be plugged in when the electricity cuts off or spikes back on during a storm, stressing the power supply on the bike unnecessarily...
Great. That guide explains really well why leaving the bike plugged in all the time might not be perfect in theory but is nothing to worry about.
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There is far too much anxiety around this whole subject. When I was obsessing about buying a Zero, I did a fair bit of research into batteries and wrote a long article on this forum. My motivation was to reduce that anxiety and sate my curiosity.
Did I succeed? I'm not so sure because the debate keeps rumbling along. I can add one new thought I've had though:
Remember that the charging circuit is only active for as long as it needs to be. Once the battery is charged and balanced, the contactor opens which isolates the battery. The charger is switched off and there is no current draw, with the exception of the display on the dash. I don't know what that consumes, but it's likely to be very close to nothing. About the same as a bedside alarm clock? Probably less because those have brighter displays.
I think that should help put minds to rest about leaving the bike plugged in. Most of the time, most of the electronics are switched off. It's like leaving a television on standby. I don't worry about spikes in the power supply with my telly and many other pieces of equipment that are left plugged in all the time. They last for decades that way without any surge protection.
If you need to store your bike for months, then by all means follow the advice about leaving it at 40-50 SoC. Otherwise, just don't worry about it. Please. Life is too short and this isn't something you need to worry about.
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There is far too much anxiety around this whole subject.
I couldn't agree more. Eleven days? Pfft. Plug it in, don't plug it in, have a great trip.
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All I care about is that my bike is fully charged when I am ready to ride. Since I ride it several times a week, I put it on the charger for a couple of days until it shows 100%, then pull the plug and it will be ready to go on the next ride whenever I am. :)