ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: turbojet on May 03, 2016, 10:54:28 AM
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Anyone have one of these yet. I keep getting different shipping dates from my dealer. :'(
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Hello turbo, have you considered the Diginow supercharger that's coming to market imminently?
It'll fit in the same space the charge tank takes up.
Hypothetically, if you could charge a zero in UNDER 1 hour
http://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5040
I've not seen anyone with a charge tank yet. It sounds like they aren't ready.
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My dealer is also being a bit vague about the shipping dates for the Charge Tank. The last information I received was "early to mid-May". Which would be any day now.
As soon as I hear from my dealer, I'll pop back in here and post.
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I am thoroughly convinced at this point that QA for any compact high-powered charger is Not Easy. Kudos to both the known and anonymous engineers out there testing and refining these things.
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I talked to the parts guy at Zero yesterday (as I am expecting my new DSR in the next few days) and he thought they could be out in a week or two. ;)
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I am thoroughly convinced at this point that QA for any compact high-powered charger is Not Easy. Kudos to both the known and anonymous engineers out there testing and refining these things.
Brian +1
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I am thoroughly convinced at this point that QA for any compact high-powered charger is Not Easy. Kudos to both the known and anonymous engineers out there testing and refining these things.
yeah. its insane the amount of work for a non-compact, non-vibration proof at home DC charger... its just a switched power supply but at these power levels everything is harder... My first design had thermal issues and it was no where near compact.
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The dealer reports that my Charge Tank has shipped and may be in their hands by tomorrow. If so, I'm going to stay at friends' house Friday night and ride the rest of the way & have 'em install it on Saturday. It's going to be a trip of very careful, low-speed riding.
Well... low-ish. ;D
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The charge tank is $2000, but you also have to add the dealer's charge for installation. It will be interesting to see what dealers will be charging to install the "tank". ???
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In the US, the cost of the charge tank plus installation gets you a 30% refund from the IRS when you file your taxes for 2016. Keep that in mind.
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How fast is the Charge Tank?
The website says 2.9 hours for a ZERO SR ZF13.0, 95% charged.
Is charge rate fastest up to ~80% charge like the Tesla Supercharger in good conditions?
So what is that time up to 80%?
It would be really nice to have the capability of the Diginow charger, but the Diginow is $3000 instead of $2000.
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There's a reason it's cheaper - it charges at under 4,000 watts. Supercharger is 10,000. If you plug into a typical L2 charger, you'll charge 50% faster (6kW), and not be capped at the lower rate. Better yet, if you find an RV park along your route, you can charge at 10kW, only with the DigiNow.
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There's a reason it's cheaper - it charges at under 4,000 watts. Supercharger is 10,000. If you plug into a typical L2 charger, you'll charge 50% faster (6kW), and not be capped at the lower rate. Better yet, if you find an RV park along your route, you can charge at 10kW, only with the DigiNow.
When you say Supercharger, you mean DigiNow right?
Tesla kinda took Supercharger -there are already 3,700 Tesla supercharger- so its confusing.
I did not think that $2000 to 3000 was crazy expensive, until I had a conversation with my Mom. She asked me what I paid for the bike and I said $12,000. She said that the charge tank is a large percentage of the cost of the bike (17% for me). So with the new way of looking at that, I thought wow, 17% is a lot of a accessory charger.
A DigiNow is 25% of the cost of my bike and that is not including installation.
I hope these are prices for early adopters and the price will drop, just like Zero dropped the MSRP of its bikes.
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It will take time for the prices to drop. And summer is here now! [emoji6]. Also, it is unlikely anyone will come up with a better charging system in the next few years. The DigiNow supercharger costs the same as it did when it was in a bigger housing made for cars. It is made in collaboration with emotowerks.
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Yes, it's 25% of the bike's cost, but it enables the bike to be so much more. Stock, the bike is great for riding to work and back, plus goofing off over weekends. Toss a supercharger and a grand worth of Givi accessories on the bike, and you have a touring vehicle. "Gas up" in an hour or two while hanging out at a museum, library, mall, park, etc., usually for free, and ride for an hour or two. Rinse and repeat. Strap a tent and a sleeping bag on there and take a month of vacation off during Summer. Man I wish I didn't have a family right now. :)
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Also, no install costs. Basic tools and basic skills, and you're charging at nearly 1C. Zero solution has you parked for a nearly 3 hour break every 70-90 miles traveled, and doesn't work at 50 amp outlets.
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There's a reason it's cheaper - it charges at under 4,000 watts. Supercharger is 10,000. If you plug into a typical L2 charger, you'll charge 50% faster (6kW), and not be capped at the lower rate. Better yet, if you find an RV park along your route, you can charge at 10kW, only with the DigiNow.
Yeah, I want one, but it sound like there are some bugs and orders to be filled. What will it look like on the bike? The charge tank looks well integrated.
What kind of plug do you find at a RV park? Its above and beyond a dryer plug, right?
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Yeah, I want one, but it sound like there are some bugs and orders to be filled. What will it look like on the bike? The charge tank looks well integrated.
What kind of plug do you find at a RV park? Its above and beyond a dryer plug, right?
RV Parks often have NEMA 14-50 plugs that can supply 10kW of power and look like the plug in the lower left of this photo:
(http://www.title-3.com/images/P0002283.JPG)
The DigiNow Supercharger will fit in the "gas tank" area of a Zero S/DS/SR/DSR if you don't have the power tank making it equally well integrated as the charge tank. If you do have the power tank then you'll need to figure out a way to carry it. Mine will reside in my top box.
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I have seen the pictures of the DigiNow charger as a sheet metal box sticking out of the 'tank area'.
(http://motorcycle.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/12166603_10205089202770665_1621962269_n_feature1-633x388.jpg)
That is where I would put it.
Is there going to be a j1772 receiver there with a cosmetic cover just like the Charge Tank?
Adaptors for NEMA 14-50 plugs and dryer plugs?
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what would be really great would be a cord that was about 3' long, wound up in a loop for compact storage, with a connector that could be torqued to switch it between having the contacts for a receiver for J-1772 paddle and NEMA 14-50, sort of like how one torques an adjustable shower head to get different spray patterns.
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what would be really great would be a cord that was about 3' long, wound up in a loop for compact storage, with a connector that could be torqued to switch it between having the contacts for a receiver for J-1772 paddle and NEMA 14-50.
J-1772 stations typically have a cable to run to your receptacle, so it's probably a better idea to have a longer cable (15'?) for 220 AC input and then a couple of plug adapters. Plus, power connections should have stationary contacts just for safety and to avoid wear and tear.
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I spent the weekend at a BMW rally at the Mariposa (CA) County Fairgrounds and noticed this sign above an electrical outlet. Seems kind of pricey to me. ???
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I spent the weekend at a BMW rally at the Mariposa (CA) County Fairgrounds and noticed this sign above an electrical outlet. Seems kind of pricey to me. ???
It is pricey because they are likely registering a RV 14-50 outlet to you ... would this be correct? And is it for the entire rally / event? And it is mutli-day?
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I spent the weekend at a BMW rally at the Mariposa (CA) County Fairgrounds and noticed this sign above an electrical outlet. Seems kind of pricey to me. ???
It is pricey because they are likely registering a RV 14-50 outlet to you ... would this be correct? And is it for the entire rally / event? And it is mutli-day?
The Fairgrounds had electrical outlets all over the place. This was the only one that had that sign. It was located at the entry to the track field and not in an area where you would be parking a vehicle for more than a few hours while you watched the track field events.
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Quick update: The Charge Tank did not arrive at my dealership. In fact, the Charge Tank hasn't shipped from Zero yet. I'm getting conflicting information from the dealership, depending upon with whom I speak. Sigh. I'm actually not terribly suprised. Sales and Tech rarely agree upon anything.
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Quick update: The Charge Tank did not arrive at my dealership. In fact, the Charge Tank hasn't shipped from Zero yet. I'm getting conflicting information from the dealership, depending upon with whom I speak. Sigh. I'm actually not terribly suprised. Sales and Tech rarely agree upon anything.
makes you wish you could just order it from zero, and get an email with tracking number when it shipped.... doesnt it?
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I don't have mine yet either (ordered 4/30/2016). When I talked with Zero last week they told they thought they would still be shipping this month and that hasn't happened. Hopefully they will ship soon as I had to prepay for mine (something I rarely do). :-\
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Update: Dealership called and told me the Charge Tank has arrived at the dealership! I'm trying to figure out how to get the bike down there so they can install it. The dealership is juuuuuust outside the range of the bike.
The dealership also wants to keep the bike overnight for the install.
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Can you a loaner from the dealer for the way back?
If it's just out of range I would suggest a charging break for lunch half way.
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My charge tank is sitting at the dealer and will be installed next Wednesday. This will be the first one they have installed. They think I can wait while they install it. ;D
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If it's just out of range I would suggest a charging break for lunch half way.
The original plan was to drive 1/4 of the way down and spend the night with friends. But they have a wedding out of state this weekend. The current plan is just as you describe: leave early Saturday morning and stop for a charge break somewhere. The Wife is going to drive down later and we'll do lunch & some antique shopping before heading out of town. I think I got off pretty lucky. I only had to bribe her with antique shopping and not shoe shopping.
My charge tank is sitting at the dealer and will be installed next Wednesday. This will be the first one they have installed. They think I can wait while they install it. ;D
Excellent! In my case, they're also installing the touring windscreen and giving it a checkup. I suspect they're not going to start until Saturday afternoon.
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I think I got off pretty lucky. I only had to bribe her with antique shopping and not shoe shopping.
You might enjoy looking at antiques more than shoes but antiques are way more expensive! 😞
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
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On the Facebook Zero Owners group, someone posted a Charge Tank install by the dealer and commenter said that it looked like a Zhuhai Inpower CH4100 model.
Well, on Alibaba that charger is only $220 (FOB).
http://in-powercar.en.alibaba.com/product/60357242513-802236162/CH4100_60V_Battery_charger_for_electric_vehicle.html (http://in-powercar.en.alibaba.com/product/60357242513-802236162/CH4100_60V_Battery_charger_for_electric_vehicle.html)
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Are they using two in series? Or custom design for Zero?
CH4100-9625
96V
25A
More info in post below
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On the Facebook Zero Owners group, someone posted a Charge Tank install by the dealer and commenter said that it looked like a Zhuhai Inpower CH4100 model.
Well, on Alibaba that charger is only $220 (FOB).
http://in-powercar.en.alibaba.com/product/60357242513-802236162/CH4100_60V_Battery_charger_for_electric_vehicle.html (http://in-powercar.en.alibaba.com/product/60357242513-802236162/CH4100_60V_Battery_charger_for_electric_vehicle.html)
It ain't gonna be that one, thats a mere 60V, and the Zeros batteries are nearly double that voltage...
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On the Facebook Zero Owners group, someone posted a Charge Tank install by the dealer and commenter said that it looked like a Zhuhai Inpower CH4100 model.
Well, on Alibaba that charger is only $220 (FOB).
http://in-powercar.en.alibaba.com/product/60357242513-802236162/CH4100_60V_Battery_charger_for_electric_vehicle.html (http://in-powercar.en.alibaba.com/product/60357242513-802236162/CH4100_60V_Battery_charger_for_electric_vehicle.html)
It ain't gonna be that one, thats a mere 60V, and the Zeros batteries are nearly double that voltage...
What if I told you that 2013 and 2014 Zeros used CC-CV power supplies that only went to 58 volts?
They just used two of them... (well 4 with the S)
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Maybe the casing is the same but the internals are different? These things look pretty big but there is nothing to indicate size on the alibaba site :/
Anyone ever order from alibaba before? Most of the stuff I have thought about ordering in the past had too high of a min quantity required.
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Looks like they have a model
CH4100-9625
96V (max voltage 140% of rated voltage = 134.4V)
25A
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3kw-on-board-96v-25a-lead_60412690646.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.M4vHVr (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3kw-on-board-96v-25a-lead_60412690646.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.M4vHVr)
User Manual
http://www.ukeasypower.com/En/Product_Detail.aspx?UserInfo_ID=488036&CorpProductClass1_ID=31808&id=1018459 (http://www.ukeasypower.com/En/Product_Detail.aspx?UserInfo_ID=488036&CorpProductClass1_ID=31808&id=1018459)
PDF
http://f02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1BrPuGpXXXXajXXXX.PRXFXXX5.pdf (http://f02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1BrPuGpXXXXajXXXX.PRXFXXX5.pdf)
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Do they need reprogrammed, or can I strap two of these together stock and charge on the cheap?
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This setup uses ch4100 charger and can bus, not sure if it need programing or it just gives it's status.
No mention of software or programing in manual. (Quick Scan)
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images/EV Charge Controller v2.0.2.pdf (http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images/EV Charger Controller v2.0.2.pdf)
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/chargers-ev.html (http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/chargers-ev.html)
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Do they need reprogrammed, or can I strap two of these together stock and charge on the cheap?
There are literally thousands of CC-CV power supplies you could strap together and charge on the cheap.
Making them fit the tank area neatly with a nice cover and not overheating is harder. Making it work with J1772 properly also takes a little effort.
Overall if you can do it depends on your skill level. I hate to use a cliche, but its one of those things where "if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it."
You would be going into an uncharted area where there are no how-to threads on it. You're on your own. To some that sounds fun, to others, terrifying.
If you want to build a cheap charger, I would stick to a couple stacked meanwells.
If you want to built a tiny, powerful charger and keep it cheap, you need a little EE-education and build a CC-CV buck charger...
If you want it smaller than the stacked meanwells, and cant design it yourself, you're stuck with the diginow charger as your next choice. Its still much cheaper than anything comparable.
next choice after that is the charge tank.
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Diginow charger is custom aftermarket designed for zero and higher power and cost. At least we know now zero is using an off the shelf OEM charger not something they especially designed themselves. Zero has designed custom mounting and bodywork and guarantee its compatible.
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What if I told you that 2013 and 2014 Zeros used CC-CV power supplies that only went to 58 volts?
I'd say, I'm aware of that, having owned a 2013 Zero-S which needed one of its chargers replacing after its cable got damaged.
I'm fairly certain, though I could be wrong, that in the install video, it looked like there was only one charger unit.
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What if I told you that 2013 and 2014 Zeros used CC-CV power supplies that only went to 58 volts?
I'd say, I'm aware of that, having owned a 2013 Zero-S which needed one of its chargers replacing after its cable got damaged.
I'm fairly certain, though I could be wrong, that in the install video, it looked like there was only one charger unit.
Well, most people would be suprised. :p
I know I was.
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It ain't gonna be that one, thats a mere 60V, and the Zeros batteries are nearly double that voltage...
What if I told you that 2013 and 2014 Zeros used CC-CV power supplies that only went to 58 volts?
They just used two of them... (well 4 with the S)
For 2013, yes. The 2014 S/DS/SR bikes use a single green watt power (http://www.greenwattpower.com/1300evc.html) EVC1200/1300 (forget which, their site is ambiguous).
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It seems to me that the charge tank can only be used with level 2 charging points that provide a J plug or Mennekes plug, depending on what part of the world you live in. Does anyone know if there are other inputs? I presume you could get an adapter with a normal domestic plug on one end, but then you have to carry it everywhere. I also wonder, do zero supply an adapter with the charge tank so you can use it at home etc?
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What if I told you that 2013 and 2014 Zeros used CC-CV power supplies that only went to 58 volts?
I'd say, I'm aware of that, having owned a 2013 Zero-S which needed one of its chargers replacing after its cable got damaged.
I'm fairly certain, though I could be wrong, that in the install video, it looked like there was only one charger unit.
Well, most people would be suprised. :p
I know I was.
In a way it was not a bad idea, certainly when one of them packed up, I was still able to charge and ride the bike to the dealers to get it fixed, something that would have been trickier with a single charger. I guess there were issues with the setup that meant they went with a single charger solution.
As for the type 2 of the charge tank Tom, I'd say you'd probably need an home EVSE unit to use the tank, bit like most electric cars need.
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It seems to me that the charge tank can only be used with level 2 charging points that provide a J plug or Mennekes plug, depending on what part of the world you live in. Does anyone know if there are other inputs? I presume you could get an adapter with a normal domestic plug on one end, but then you have to carry it everywhere. I also wonder, do zero supply an adapter with the charge tank so you can use it at home etc?
In the US, the base onboard charger will max out a conventional 15A domestic socket. No need for an expensive / bulky adapter, just plug in with a standard IEC C13 cable.
A domestic socket in the UK can supply more power - it's what, 230V / 10A max with a 13A fuse? In this case you would need a "smart" EVSE that can inform the charging system the maximum current that it can supply, so that it could restrict its current draw. I doubt Zero supplies a cable (as one wouldn't be needed for the US), but they're relatively common.
https://evcables.co.uk/evcables/type-1-portable-charger/
This would charge at around 2.3 kW maximum, better than the standard onboard @ 1.3 kW but not quite to the full 3.8 kW potential.
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An EVSE box isn't that hard to make, and a lot of EV-drivers already have a charging station in their garage or at an outer wall.
If you take a standard 16A fuse and dedicate it to charging you should be able to charge with 3,6kW.
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Full disclosure: I am a Zero employee. Reading thru this thread, a couple tidbits about the Charge Tank that may be relevant and/or useful.
First, the Charge Tank is an isolated system. From a safety and longevity perspective, Zero felt this best. Plus, there are regulatory requirements placed upon an OEM (original equipment manufacturer).
Second, the charger at the core of the Charge Tank operates at 2.5 kW (continuous) and works in tandem with the on-board 1.3 kW charger for a total of 3.8 kW. As a Charge Tank user myself, I frequently see 4.0 kW charge rates via the app. Zero designed the board and logic to conform to the J1772 standard and sort out the integration of the two chargers.
Third, if you're in Europe where typical household circuits operate at 230V and 16A, a bike with a Charge Tank will take advantage of the higher power even when plugged in via the OEM side connection and standard cable.
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Would that also be true for US models? Many households have 240V outlets.
Third, if you're in Europe where typical household circuits operate at 230V and 16A, a bike with a Charge Tank will take advantage of the higher power even when plugged in via the OEM side connection and standard cable.
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Would that also be true for US models? Many households have 240V outlets.
Third, if you're in Europe where typical household circuits operate at 230V and 16A, a bike with a Charge Tank will take advantage of the higher power even when plugged in via the OEM side connection and standard cable.
YES! I have the same question.. is it only amp limiting and therefore going to pull more watts if we feed it 240?
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Thanks for pitching in dv8.
Please note that the maximum fuse that fits a domestic plug in the UK is 13A. That provides a little over 3kW at 240V.
The practical limit is 3kW. You can buy kettles rated at 3kW but I've never seen higher.
Do I understand correctly that you can plug the kettle lead into the normal socket on the side of the bike and the on-board charger and charge tank will pull up to 13A in combination?
If I've got that right, then that feature is genuinely useful. It's what we want from the on-board charger alone here in Europe, but it makes the charge tank about ten times more useful.
I was thinking that the charge tank was probably a waste of money and valuable glove box space, unless someone has the need to use a level 2 charge station on a daily basis. This new information changes things considerably.
I'm still disappointed that the charge tank is only rated at 2.5kW. Why doesn't Zero just strike a deal with the Diginow guys and then they can provide it as an option? Do the same integration as mentioned above to make the best of 240V and 13A plugs and everyone is a winner! Apart from the current charge tank supplier of course, but only providing 2.5kW of extra charging does seem a little misguided.
May I suggest that this info is made clear on the website if it isn't already? It's too important to miss and should help sales considerably.
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Also, thanks for the other responses gents. Very helpful as always. :-)
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A vehicle equipped with a Charge Tank and connected to a 220V (or 230V, or 240V) circuit via the standard side charger inlet will utilize the Charge Tank's 2.5 kW charger, thereby basically doubling the standard 1.3 kW on-board charging power (and roughly halving charge time). This would apply to both standard UK and continental European outlets, as well as 220V (or 240V) outlets in the USA.
When connected via a J1772 level 2 charging station (be it public or a private EVSE), the Charge Tank will work in tandem with the on-board, for a total of 3.8 kW of charging power, approximately three times the standard 1.3 kW rate.
Regarding vendor relations, component sourcing, etc...naturally, I can't comment.
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Thanks again Sean, that's most helpful. I think you've enlightened a few of us!
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A vehicle equipped with a Charge Tank and connected to a 220V (or 230V, or 240V) circuit via the standard side charger inlet will utilize the Charge Tank's 2.5 kW charger, thereby basically doubling the standard 1.3 kW on-board charging power (and roughly halving charge time). This would apply to both standard UK and continental European outlets, as well as 220V (or 240V) outlets in the USA.
When connected via a J1772 level 2 charging station (be it public or a private EVSE), the Charge Tank will work in tandem with the on-board, for a total of 3.8 kW of charging power, approximately three times the standard 1.3 kW rate.
Regarding vendor relations, component sourcing, etc...naturally, I can't comment.
That is an awesome feature. Thank you!
Instead of remaining undocumented, it should be published front and center. Faster wall outlet charging AND J1772 charging.
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Quick point of clarification regarding the Charge Tank and the standard side inlet:
In order to stay within limits of various household circuits as well as the capacity of the side inlet, the Charge Tank will draw up to 2.1 kW when connected to a 220V source, so not quite as optimistic as I had previously reported (but still significantly better than standard 1.3 kW charging).
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Quick point of clarification regarding the Charge Tank and the standard side inlet:
In order to stay within limits of various household circuits as well as the capacity of the side inlet, the Charge Tank will draw up to 2.1 kW when connected to a 220V source, so not quite as optimistic as I had previously reported (but still significantly better than standard 1.3 kW charging).
sounds like I still want a EVSE at home... I have a NEMA 6-50 plug in the garage for the welder.
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Ok, thanks dv8. I'm a little disappointed to be honest, but I appreciate you letting us know the facts so people don't get disappointed further down the line. Overall it's good news for those buying a charge tank with 220/240 volts at home or work.
Having followed the developments of the charge tank and the Diginow Super Charger over the last few months, my conclusion is that the business of charging is not simple! One of those things that sounds simple but in reality is far from it!
It needs to be as quick and simple as filling up with petrol. That's why hydrogen is still in the game, as much as I hate it for being inefficient, produced from fossil fuels and highly taxable.
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Ok, thanks dv8. I'm a little disappointed to be honest, but I appreciate you letting us know the facts so people don't get disappointed further down the line. Overall it's good news for those buying a charge tank with 220/240 volts at home or work.
Having followed the developments of the charge tank and the Diginow Super Charger over the last few months, my conclusion is that the business of charging is not simple! One of those things that sounds simple but in reality is far from it!
It needs to be as quick and simple as filling up with petrol. That's why hydrogen is still in the game, as much as I hate it for being inefficient, produced from fossil fuels and highly taxable.
Eh, the business of charging IS simple. Plug it in and walk away.
Its the building of everything to make that happen safely, that is difficult.
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Any thoughts on how the charge tank is installed at the dealer.
Assuming I chose a charge tank, then purchase the diginow later on. Would it be trivial to remove the charge tank, or is it going to require BMS programming for example?
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There is this one video of the install: https://www.facebook.com/rj.rides/videos/10154307521054711/ (https://www.facebook.com/rj.rides/videos/10154307521054711/)
And the user guide: http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/user-guides/2016/2016-Zero-Charge-Tank-User-Guide.pdf (http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/user-guides/2016/2016-Zero-Charge-Tank-User-Guide.pdf)
My dealer hasn't even received a charge tank yet for installation. There's not enough information yet about this. The power tank installation is known to not be customer-reversable. On the other hand, the Super Charger does not necessarily need to be installed in the tank area, even if it's best placed there.
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Thanks Brian, that's interesting.
Will see what my dealer says about the charge tank availability...
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Alexander, since the Super Charger is more or less available now, I'd just get one of those. It sounds like it's much more versatile. None of this 'only charging at 2.1 kW from a 240V supply' business when said outlets are capable of a continuous 3kW. Also, do you want to stop for a one hour lunch break when traveling or do you have a desire to while away three hours every time you need to charge? Besides, buying a charge tank to then go through all the hassle and expense of swiping it out for a super charger a few months later doesn't make much sense. I hope this helps.
Mr Dude, I agree that the user's side of charging should be as simple as plugging in, but it isn't really. There are a number of different variables that make it much more cognitive than simply using a payroll pump. Different charging points that all need a subscription, different plugs in different countries, the time it takes and how that varies.
I'll say that at least the charge tank makes it as simple as possible. I'm impressed that someone thought to make it useable via the standard kettle plug, even though it only increases the charge rate by about 900W over using the onboard.
Anyone know if you could use a Y-adapter to make use of a double socket UK domestic wall outlet? Two three pin UK plugs into a Mennekes plug would provide up to 6kW to the charge tank. That would be very useful, especially when on the road and visiting people.
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Alexander, since the Super Charger is more or less available now, I'd just get one of those. It sounds like it's much more versatile. None of this 'only charging at 2.1 kW from a 240V supply' business when said outlets are capable of a continuous 3kW. Also, do you want to stop for a one hour lunch break when traveling or do you have a desire to while away three hours every time you need to charge? Besides, buying a charge tank to then go through all the hassle and expense of swiping it out for a super charger a few months later doesn't make much sense. I hope this helps.
I agree. My thoughts of using the supercharger in the UK, would be going to work in various central London locations, and using a fast charge point whilst I am at a clients premises, or popping into the services. That way I can wack in 20/30% in 30 minutes for a coffee break and then proceed.
Im eager to get a charging solution in place though, as without the ability to that, it will severely limit the usable range for me.
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Someone asked why zero doesn't "just use the powerful digiNow charger". That is because they were invented after Zero developed the charge tank. If the digiNow Supercharger works as advertised and is Diablo, there may be a chance of them working together in the (far) future. But the Supercharger needs to show it can withstand the rigors of real world riding.
My "little" trip will certainly shed some light on that question.
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So, the saga of my Charge Tank is a long and weird one. I drove to the dealership early Saturday morning. I took the slightly longer route, but kept my speed down below 55 mph and there were several stretches of 40 mph. It was... quite relaxing, actually. I saw many things I would not have seen if I had just gone screaming down the interstate. I might have made it all the way, based upon the projected trip and how fast I was consuming power. But to be safe, I stopped at a Chevrolet dealership and borrow their wall outlet for an hour. Very nice people. We talked about the Zero and the new Volt, which they had just received a week prior. Chevy has really sexxed up the look of it for 2017.
Anyhow, I dropped off the motorcycle at the dealership. I got to meet all of the people who had been just voices on a phone so far. It was a good day. They said they would try to get to my bike that afternoon, but probably not. They were closed Sunday & Monday, so Tuesday is probably when they would work on the bike.
I called Tuesday. They hadn't gotten to it. Their Zero tech works the late shift, so he was going to roll in at about 4PM and get to work on it.
I called Wednesday. Their tech apparently went on a date instead of coming into work. He was being disciplined and my bike was first on the list.
I called Thursday. The Charge Tank and the bike were apparently unfriendly with each other. When the Charge Tank was installed, the bike wouldn't turn on. As soon as the charge tank was disconnected, the bike would start normally. Zero tech support had gone home for the day at this point, but they would be contacted as soon as the tech came in at 4 PM (1PM Zero HQ time).
I called Friday. They couldn't figure it out. They took the Charge Tank off the bike and re-installed it, following the procedure with double-checking everything. The problem still occurs. They didn't have a 2nd Charge Tanks to swap in. This is not their first Charge Tank and none of the others have had this problem.
They called me today. Working with Zero tech support, the problem is apparently the main board on the motorcycle. The area that deals with accessories is causing problems when it's energized by the quick charger being attached. A new main board is being shipped from Zero to my dealership. So this quick install has so far, taken a week.
To be fair, it's entirely possible there was some other problem with my main board lurking in there. If the bike is going to need a major repair like this, it's probably best that it breaks down at the dealership.
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So, the saga of my Charge Tank is a long and weird one. I drove to the dealership early Saturday morning. I took the slightly longer route, but kept my speed down below 55 mph and there were several stretches of 40 mph. It was... quite relaxing, actually. I saw many things I would not have seen if I had just gone screaming down the interstate. I might have made it all the way, based upon the projected trip and how fast I was consuming power. But to be safe, I stopped at a Chevrolet dealership and borrow their wall outlet for an hour. Very nice people. We talked about the Zero and the new Volt, which they had just received a week prior. Chevy has really sexxed up the look of it for 2017.
You know, I'm forming a write-up of what it's like to ride all day on a Zero trying to cover ground, and the 55mph electric experience is certainly interesting from a gas motorcycle touring perspective. Anyway, those observations jibe with mine and maybe I'll try to write it up that way.
Anyhow, I dropped off the motorcycle at the dealership. I got to meet all of the people who had been just voices on a phone so far. It was a good day. They said they would try to get to my bike that afternoon, but probably not. They were closed Sunday & Monday, so Tuesday is probably when they would work on the bike.
...
I called Thursday. The Charge Tank and the bike were apparently unfriendly with each other. When the Charge Tank was installed, the bike wouldn't turn on. As soon as the charge tank was disconnected, the bike would start normally. Zero tech support had gone home for the day at this point, but they would be contacted as soon as the tech came in at 4 PM (1PM Zero HQ time).
I called Friday. They couldn't figure it out. They took the Charge Tank off the bike and re-installed it, following the procedure with double-checking everything. The problem still occurs. They didn't have a 2nd Charge Tanks to swap in. This is not their first Charge Tank and none of the others have had this problem.
They called me today. Working with Zero tech support, the problem is apparently the main board on the motorcycle. The area that deals with accessories is causing problems when it's energized by the quick charger being attached. A new main board is being shipped from Zero to my dealership. So this quick install has so far, taken a week.
To be fair, it's entirely possible there was some other problem with my main board lurking in there. If the bike is going to need a major repair like this, it's probably best that it breaks down at the dealership.
This is really interesting. The concerns that I've heard when I visit Zero HQ and allude to this project are about systems integration, and yet somehow the Elcon and Super Charger seem more independent than this. (Although there are some aspects I've learned and baked into the documentation in suitably abstract ways to protect installers and users.)
It's certainly true that engineering teams that never coordinate from different companies are bound to design more defensively, especially the side that feels more likely to be blamed for problems.
Anyway, good luck!
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An update to the saga of the Charge Tank: It took a week for the new main board to ship from Zero to my dealership. It arrived on Friday and they told me that they were wrenching on it on Saturday. The main board is apparently buried deep in the bike, so this 2 hour installation just became a massive job.
On Tuesday, I called and they told me the bike... still isn't working. The new board is behaving just like the old board and reporting that the board has a fault in the auxiliary charging circuits. At this point, I'm thinking the problem isn't with the board and the dealership service techs agree with me. So, back to work with the Zero techs.
On Thursday, I got a call from the dealership and received an update on the status of the bike. It's still not working and they're still working with Zero tech support. After a nice chat with the service department manager, I explained to him in a gentle hinting fashion that 1) I really want my charge tank, and 2) I'm not terribly attached to this specific Zero yet and if he needs to ship it back to the factory in exchange for one with a working charge tank, I will not object terribly hard.
We just finished week 3 of me being without a bike. I keep telling myself that this is the price of being an early adopter. But... damn.
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An update to the saga of the Charge Tank: It took a week for the new main board to ship from Zero to my dealership. It arrived on Friday and they told me that they were wrenching on it on Saturday. The main board is apparently buried deep in the bike, so this 2 hour installation just became a massive job.
On Tuesday, I called and they told me the bike... still isn't working. The new board is behaving just like the old board and reporting that the board has a fault in the auxiliary charging circuits. At this point, I'm thinking the problem isn't with the board and the dealership service techs agree with me. So, back to work with the Zero techs.
On Thursday, I got a call from the dealership and received an update on the status of the bike. It's still not working and they're still working with Zero tech support. After a nice chat with the service department manager, I explained to him in a gentle hinting fashion that 1) I really want my charge tank, and 2) I'm not terribly attached to this specific Zero yet and if he needs to ship it back to the factory in exchange for one with a working charge tank, I will not object terribly hard.
We just finished week 3 of me being without a bike. I keep telling myself that this is the price of being an early adopter. But... damn.
I had something similar happen to me when my power tank was installed. First it was a defective power tank, which was replaced, but the bike still wouldn't work properly. The problem turned out to be a bent connector pin that was mashed when the bike was assembled at the factory. I guess you have to be careful when connecting multi-pin connectors.
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Update: my Zero has apparently stumped both the dealership and tech support. They are shipping it back to Zero HQ for further analysis.
This sucks.
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Just picked up my 2016 DSR after dealer installed the charge tank. Took a couple days for them to complete the job (2nd one they have installed). No dealer charge so install charge must be included in the price of the charge tank. The main issue is that I now have a complete "tank" body piece that I don't need. I agree with the sentiment that Zero should be installing these at the factory if people order them at the same time they order the bike. Haven't used it yet, will report back soon. ;D
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Here is my 2016 DSR charging at the local grocery store (Fred Meyer for those of you from the NW) Blink charge station. I am only a Blink guest but could have saved nearly 25% BY being a member. Left the bike for under an hour and went from 52% TO 98% charge. Cost was $2.45. Cheers! 8)
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I agree with the sentiment that Zero should be installing these at the factory if people order them at the same time they order the bike. Haven't used it yet, will report back soon. ;D
Just a reminder: The 2016s were out & about for months before the charge tank was available. Kind of hard to install something that doesn't exist yet on the bike at the factory. Now that the tanks are appearing, yeah it would be convenient to have them installed at the factory. But no other manufacturer pre-installs a dealer-installed accessory for you. If you order a ground effects kit for your car, the dealer will still install it when it arrives.
Update on the bike: Zero has finished their work and it's being shipped back to my dealership today.
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Here is my 2016 DSR charging at the local grocery store (Fred Meyer for those of you from the NW) Blink charge station. I am only a Blink guest but could have saved nearly 25% BY being a member. Left the bike for under an hour and went from 52% TO 98% charge. Cost was $2.45. Cheers! 8)
Holy moly! You found a Blink station that works! Congratulations! I've had only 50% success rate with them.
Glad the charge tank is working out for you.
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Penultimate update: I picked up the bike on Friday and rode it home. It was almost two full months without the Zero to get this thing installed. The dealership relayed the Factory's description of the problem as "Something to do with the JIB", which doesn't make any sense to me. And it didn't make sense to the Zero tech at my dealership, either. Whatever. I have a bike again.
They also added a touring windscreen. On the way home, I pulled 97.9 miles in Eco mode, never going above 60mph. I still had 10% left in the tank when I arrived, too. Obviously this isn't definitive proof, but it sure seems like the windscreen is improving the efficiency.
I'll report back once I get a chance to actually use the charge tank.
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They also added a touring windscreen.
Would you mind to check your dealer installed touring windscreen against the zeromanual.com common modifications guide I posted? I have not much confidence if what I did for my install guide was correct.
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Sure, I can do that for you. I had to briefly remove the windscreen in order to remove the right mirror today. So I can definitely confirm that the mounting points to the bike is correct. I'll check the windscreen itself and get back to you.
I'm writing up some posts for the accessories section of the board, including a bar end mirror installation. I know you're looking for confirmed accessories, so hopefully this will be right up your alley.
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My new Charge Tank is so sexy, even bugs want to have sex on it.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8444/28214695454_37849bcb0a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JZeFYs)
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I am pretty experienced with the classic ICE mechanics, but really new to the electric "engineering"...
Am confused about the charge tank compatibility with the charging stations you find near the highways and in public parkings, etc.
Can you expect a standard "plug" that you stick into the Zero charge tank?
Suppose you install the Zero charge tank, can you then quick charge it at any charging station that is available?
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I am pretty experienced with the classic ICE mechanics, but really new to the electric "engineering"...
Am confused about the charge tank compatibility with the charging stations you find near the highways and in public parkings, etc.
Can you expect a standard "plug" that you stick into the Zero charge tank?
Suppose you install the Zero charge tank, can you then quick charge it at any charging station that is available?
In the US most public stations use a J1772 plug which is what's on the Zero charge tank. You can buy an adapter that will let you plug into NEMA 14-50 outlets as well. It won't work with DC fast charge stations (Tesla, CCS or CHAdeMO).
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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I am pretty experienced with the classic ICE mechanics, but really new to the electric "engineering"...
Am confused about the charge tank compatibility with the charging stations you find near the highways and in public parkings, etc.
Can you expect a standard "plug" that you stick into the Zero charge tank?
Suppose you install the Zero charge tank, can you then quick charge it at any charging station that is available?
In the US most public stations use a J1772 plug which is what's on the Zero charge tank. You can buy an adapter that will let you plug into NEMA 14-50 outlets as well. It won't work with DC fast charge stations (Tesla, CCS or CHAdeMO).
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
What has happened with the DC charging solution?
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5524.0
Seems like a better way - to avoid carrying around your own charger ...
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I am pretty experienced with the classic ICE mechanics, but really new to the electric "engineering"...
Am confused about the charge tank compatibility with the charging stations you find near the highways and in public parkings, etc.
Can you expect a standard "plug" that you stick into the Zero charge tank?
Suppose you install the Zero charge tank, can you then quick charge it at any charging station that is available?
In the US most public stations use a J1772 plug which is what's on the Zero charge tank. You can buy an adapter that will let you plug into NEMA 14-50 outlets as well. It won't work with DC fast charge stations (Tesla, CCS or CHAdeMO).
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
What has happened with the DC charging solution?
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5524.0
Seems like a better way - to avoid carrying around your own charger ...
A lot of the CHAdeMO charge stations don't follow protocol and don't go to a low enough voltage for the Zero. That's why Zero stopped selling the adapter. The DigiNow Super Charger will get around this by accepting the higher voltage and stepping it down to the right voltage for the Zero but it's a work around for the station not working the way it should. The CHAdeMO adapter for the DigiNow is still being tested. CCS would be nice but it's still new and not a lot around. I'm sure that will be supported eventually. Tesla requires buy in to their network but it would have to be Zero that would buy in on behalf of the owners since Tesla currently won't let just anyone hook up even if you are willing to pay.
In the long run there's no doubt DC charging is the future but the future isn't quite here yet.
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In the long run there's no doubt DC charging is the future but the future isn't quite here yet.
[/quote]
To "help the future" I've been in contact with NMCU (Norwegian Motor Cycle Union), and they have promised to check with the companies setting up the charging stations if they really don't support 100V DC charging. If they don't support the standard, maybe it can be possible to make them aware of the problem?
If we all try to make our National MC organisations (& FEMA - Federation of European Motorcyclists Associations & US ?) aware of this problem maybe we can have the future come faster ...
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For Shadow:
Overview:
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8154/28242093114_4147f18304_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/K2E7kU)
Top detail:
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8642/28754574492_9a594b6790_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KNWHcJ)
Lower detail:
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8641/28242092924_891053cca1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/K2E7hC)
To my inexperienced eye, you have everything correct. Additionally, Shadow has my permission to use these images in the Unofficial Zero Manual as you see fit. Higher resolutions available upon request.
In short: Shadow has done so much for the community, that I would be happy to help in whatever way I can.
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...To my inexperienced eye, you have everything correct...
Okay. Nice photos! Looks like the edge piping is missing. See Zero's product page for Touring Screen (http://http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=230) image (attached, source: product page as linked).
I'm looking for if the solid bars are mounted through and with the plastic end caps fitted, or if the caps are omitted and the solid bars are mounted ends flush with the handle bar mount brackets; Also looking to see the orientation of the through mounts for the windscreen plastics; And as already mentioned, the edge piping.
Did you get the leftover parts?
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I'm looking for if the solid bars are mounted through and with the plastic end caps fitted, or if the caps are omitted and the solid bars are mounted ends flush with the handle bar mount brackets; Also looking to see the orientation of the through mounts for the windscreen plastics; And as already mentioned, the edge piping.
Solid bars are mounted through the holes and plastic end caps are fitted on the rider end of the bars. Quite snugly, too. You can't see it in these photos, but the lower edge of the windscreen is about 1/8" off the headlight housing.
I didn't notice the lack of piping until you pointed it out. :)
Did you get the leftover parts?
No. The dealership was quite happy to be rid of me before I raised a stink (they had my bike for nearly two months at this point). They even forgot to give me back my power cable. Very friendly people, if a bit disorganized.
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why are there wind screen post, on Charge tank thread ???
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Final update: The charge tank works. Whew. And my dealership mailed the old plastic, storage bag & power cord to me. I think technically the only thing missing are the bolts that held the handlebars in place that were replaced with the longer ones for the windscreen.
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Hi turbojet,
your bike looks great. I will ask my dealer about the charge tank in the Netherlands :)
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Makes me feel better about the money I am paying to have mine installed at the factory.
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So I have a Zero DSR with a charge tank coming and I know I want an EVSE install at home. I have already ordered a Electric Moto Werks Juicebox 40A for that. But I also want to have a flexible cord and adapter "toolkit" to take with me on the road. Can someone help me with this "on the road" solution?
Now I am thinking I was hasty ordering the Juicebox and might return it and get this instead:
http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25 (http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25)
and use it for the home and take it and adapters for 1450 and 1430 etc on the road trips. Is this right or wrong or it there a better way? I do not know much about this and welcome your comments and suggestions. TIA
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I'm a little curious as to your riding habits. Do you anticipate the need to go for a ride, come home, charge quickly and then go right back out again? I ask because in my situation, when I arrive home I'm staying put for the rest of the day. Charging slowly via the wall plug is just fine for my situation, so I'm a bit curious as to why you feel you need a quick charge solution for your residence.
Now, I can imagine a couple scenarios where you would want such a thing. Ride to work, ride home, charge while you change clothes, ride out to the club/restaurant/squeeze's place. That sort of routine. I'm just curious, as I wonder if that would happen often enough to justify the expense.
As for the adapter you listed: That looks interesting. I'll let the more knowledgeable members speak up, but I don't know if it would give you significantly faster charging than just going into the wall.
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Now, I can imagine a couple scenarios where you would want such a thing. Ride to work, ride home, charge while you change clothes, ride out to the club/restaurant/squeeze's place. That sort of routine. I'm just curious, as I wonder if that would happen often enough to justify the expense.
You basically described my routine for my entire 20s. I would leave work just before 5 to beat traffic.. sit at home for just over an hour for it to disappear, then leave again for dinner/friends/just to ride and unwind/etc. I would then go back home again, and either work on a project, or change and go out again for the night. lol
Most days I would only be home to sleep.
now.. I spend far too much time at home. lol
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So I have a Zero DSR with a charge tank coming and I know I want an EVSE install at home.
Now I am thinking I was hasty ordering the Juicebox and might return it and get this instead:
http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25 (http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25)
and use it for the home and take it and adapters for 1450 and 1430 etc on the road trips. Is this right or wrong or it there a better way? I do not know much about this and welcome your comments and suggestions. TIA
The EVSE upgrade cord can only charge at a maximum of 2kW, which is too slow to be helpful on the road. EVSE upgrade is cost effective when sending them the charge cord from your LEAF/Volt/Soul/etc and having them upgrade it (hence the name).
Where do you plan to ride? If you are near cities you should be able to find level two charging stations. If you're riding in the country you can find RV Parks so all you will need is a cord that connects to a NEMA 14-50 outlet.
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I'm a little curious as to your riding habits. Do you anticipate the need to go for a ride, come home, charge quickly and then go right back out again? I ask because in my situation, when I arrive home I'm staying put for the rest of the day. Charging slowly via the wall plug is just fine for my situation, so I'm a bit curious as to why you feel you need a quick charge solution for your residence.
Now, I can imagine a couple scenarios where you would want such a thing. Ride to work, ride home, charge while you change clothes, ride out to the club/restaurant/squeeze's place. That sort of routine. I'm just curious, as I wonder if that would happen often enough to justify the expense.
As for the adapter you listed: That looks interesting. I'll let the more knowledgeable members speak up, but I don't know if it would give you significantly faster charging than just going into the wall.
Hi, Yeah 95% of the time it will be ride home (26 in-city miles on-way) and hook it up to the charger. If I want to go out right away I have ICE bikes and a pickup but mostly it is me keeping my option open. I am just that way. If I can do it an make it more functional I do. Some call it my farkle (aftermarket mods) addiction. Mostly in this case I want to see if I can travel on trips to the boonies or at least away from city level 2 chargers.
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So I have a Zero DSR with a charge tank coming and I know I want an EVSE install at home. I have already ordered a Electric Moto Werks Juicebox 40A for that. But I also want to have a flexible cord and adapter "toolkit" to take with me on the road. Can someone help me with this "on the road" solution?
Now I am thinking I was hasty ordering the Juicebox and might return it and get this instead:
http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25 (http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25)
and use it for the home and take it and adapters for 1450 and 1430 etc on the road trips. Is this right or wrong or it there a better way? I do not know much about this and welcome your comments and suggestions. TIA
This portable charger will do 5 kW and your charge tank and onboard will do 3.8 kW so it's powerful enough with some to spare. Plus it should make the exchange easy and let you keep the Juicebox connectivity app which is useful since our bikes don't have network connectivity. But with the Juice App you can connect to all the features and monitor charging progress and see kWh added etc.
https://emotorwerks.com/products/juicecord (https://emotorwerks.com/products/juicecord)
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So I have a Zero DSR with a charge tank coming and I know I want an EVSE install at home.
Now I am thinking I was hasty ordering the Juicebox and might return it and get this instead:
http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25 (http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25)
and use it for the home and take it and adapters for 1450 and 1430 etc on the road trips. Is this right or wrong or it there a better way? I do not know much about this and welcome your comments and suggestions. TIA
The EVSE upgrade cord can only charge at a maximum of 2kW, which is too slow to be helpful on the road. EVSE upgrade is cost effective when sending them the charge cord from your LEAF/Volt/Soul/etc and having them upgrade it (hence the name).
Where do you plan to ride? If you are near cities you should be able to find level two charging stations. If you're riding in the country you can find RV Parks so all you will need is a cord that connects to a NEMA 14-50 outlet.
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Hi Ben and thank you,
So actually the first ride outside of the routine of commuting that I want to take will be exactly as you describe. Before I even got the bike I downloaded Plugshare and tried to plan a route for the first time I want to take it to a destination away the cities and away from the freeways. The only route that makes sense when I planned it indeed had me stopping at RV park I actually know well because it is exactly where I have stopped for years on this trip anyway! Commenters on Plugshare rave about how nice the RV/park and Arctic Tavern owner so it is exactly the scenario you describe Ben!
So you say just plug it in to the NEMA 1450 or 1430 I presume at the RV/park. But as far as I know you only get an IEC (110v/15A) cord with the DSR so how would I plug into the RV park outlets? I get what the dev8Sean from Zero said as you can plug more than 110v/15A into the stock side and the charge tank will make use of it but they cannot exceed 2.1kW on it for safety reasons.
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So I have a Zero DSR with a charge tank coming and I know I want an EVSE install at home. I have already ordered a Electric Moto Werks Juicebox 40A for that. But I also want to have a flexible cord and adapter "toolkit" to take with me on the road. Can someone help me with this "on the road" solution?
Now I am thinking I was hasty ordering the Juicebox and might return it and get this instead:
http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25 (http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=25)
and use it for the home and take it and adapters for 1450 and 1430 etc on the road trips. Is this right or wrong or it there a better way? I do not know much about this and welcome your comments and suggestions. TIA
This portable charger will do 5 kW and your charge tank and onboard will do 3.8 kW so it's powerful enough with some to spare. Plus it should make the exchange easy and let you keep the Juicebox connectivity app which is useful since our bikes don't have network connectivity. But with the Juice App you can connect to all the features and monitor charging progress and see kWh added etc.
https://emotorwerks.com/products/juicecord (https://emotorwerks.com/products/juicecord)
So what is non the other end of the Juicecord?
I will just call emotowerks because I think I have to return the Juicebox from them anyway.
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This portable charger will do 5 kW and your charge tank and onboard will do 3.8 kW so it's powerful enough with some to spare. Plus it should make the exchange easy and let you keep the Juicebox connectivity app which is useful since our bikes don't have network connectivity. But with the Juice App you can connect to all the features and monitor charging progress and see kWh added etc.
https://emotorwerks.com/products/juicecord (https://emotorwerks.com/products/juicecord)
Terry, do you know if the charge tank will work with a regular NEMA 14-50 cord or does it need a smart cord like the Emotowerks juice cord?
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I have not talked to emotoworks yet. Do you know if the wifi on the Juicecord talks directly to you phone and then the internet? In other words do you create a profile on your phone so they talk directly? I would assume but want to be sure.
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I have not talked to emotoworks yet. Do you know if the wifi on the Juicecord talks directly to you phone and then the internet? In other words do you create a profile on your phone so they talk directly? I would assume but want to be sure.
The WiFi feature is for smart grid systems, so it talks to the cloud first and your phone uses a bridge through the cloud. Whether you can do this over a local LAN without the cloud features is something you'll have to ask them, but the whole point of this device is that it gives power utilities a view into EV charging (and lets them ask you to re-schedule it if I understand correctly).
https://emotorwerks.com/store-juicebox-ev-charging-stations/1661-juicecord-pro-20-portable-smart-20-amp-evse-with-20-foot-cable/category_pathway-23
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I have not talked to emotoworks yet. Do you know if the wifi on the Juicecord talks directly to you phone and then the internet? In other words do you create a profile on your phone so they talk directly? I would assume but want to be sure.
The WiFi feature is for smart grid systems, so it talks to the cloud first and your phone uses a bridge through the cloud. Whether you can do this over a local LAN without the cloud features is something you'll have to ask them, but the whole point of this device is that it gives power utilities a view into EV charging (and lets them ask you to re-schedule it if I understand correctly).
Thanks. I will report back when I get the answer. That dang Siri, she cannot even play the music recorded on you phone if she cannot phone home first. If it is internet up and phone down that means it is no goo monitoring the charge while you kill time eating and what not. Does the Zero app talk directly to your phone?
https://emotorwerks.com/store-juicebox-ev-charging-stations/1661-juicecord-pro-20-portable-smart-20-amp-evse-with-20-foot-cable/category_pathway-23
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The Zero app will talk directly to your motorcycle, but it's via Bluetooth, which has a range that can be easily limited by walls.
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This portable charger will do 5 kW and your charge tank and onboard will do 3.8 kW so it's powerful enough with some to spare. Plus it should make the exchange easy and let you keep the Juicebox connectivity app which is useful since our bikes don't have network connectivity. But with the Juice App you can connect to all the features and monitor charging progress and see kWh added etc.
https://emotorwerks.com/products/juicecord (https://emotorwerks.com/products/juicecord)
Terry, do you know if the charge tank will work with a regular NEMA 14-50 cord or does it need a smart cord like the Emotowerks juice cord?
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Charge Tank will not work with the 14-50 to J plug you use for the Diginow, it needs one with the pilot signal and proximity signal like the cord I listed above.
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Going off on a tangent here: Looking at the Charge Tank page on the Zero website: http://tinyurl.com/zjsgksa (http://tinyurl.com/zjsgksa)
Since they seem to have different part numbers for the different colors, I'm assuming that means the ENTIRE "tank" assembly is replaced and not just the inner storage compartment? I ask because I have some stickers on the sides of the existing "tank" that I would not be able to easily move over.
Thanks,
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Going off on a tangent here: Looking at the Charge Tank page on the Zero website
Since they seem to have different part numbers for the different colors, I'm assuming that means the ENTIRE "tank" assembly is replaced and not just the inner storage compartment? I ask because I have some stickers on the sides of the existing "tank" that I would not be able to easily move over.
Yes, that's what normally happens. The centerpiece is plastic-welded (using a soldering iron and lockwasher) through holes in the side pieces. It can be detached with careful use of heat or pliers, but then the centerpiece sprues used to weld it together will not be usable, so the centerpiece won't easily rejoin (though I suppose it could be done with the right glue or something).
However, I acquired a power tank centerpiece that had not been welded yet, and I've been using it as a dynamic piece I can join to other tank side pieces. So, it is possible. Maybe your dealer can request a Charge Tank centerpiece that way.
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Since they seem to have different part numbers for the different colors, I'm assuming that means the ENTIRE "tank" assembly is replaced and not just the inner storage compartment? I ask because I have some stickers on the sides of the existing "tank" that I would not be able to easily move over.
This is correct. On the positive side, they give you the old upper assembly so you can keep it, experiment, sell it, whatever. On the negative side, you're going to have to replace those stickers.
IMHO, you're already spending $2K on an accessory. Another $12 for new stickers isn't that big of a deal.
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I never ordered the DSR with the charge tank and I am waiting for delivery of a Diginow to Hollywood Electric and they will install it for me. Woot! I hope it is soon! Thanks for the replies.
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Charge Tank (and DigiNow/other fastcharge) owners, can you post your usage experiences with this accessory? Is it glitchy? Does it work as advertised? How long does it take at a L2 station to charge from about 10% to 80% using this?
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Charge Tank (and DigiNow/other fastcharge) owners, can you post your usage experiences with this accessory? Is it glitchy? Does it work as advertised? How long does it take at a L2 station to charge from about 10% to 80% using this?
Most tested and reliable is the Hollywood Electrics Elcon Kit - With the onboard allows 6.3 kW charging for a 10-80% on a 4 brick in about a hour. You have to carry these in side or top cases. It has been available for 4 years now and many Zero owners have these.
Next is the ChargeTank from Zero. Came out about 5 months ago and reliability seems good. With the onboard allows 3.8 kW charging, for a 10-80% charge in about 2 hours. This can not be used on bikes that have or will want a PowerTank. But it is integrated into the tank area and a good choice if you don't need the most power and don't have the max battery.
Next is the supercharger. This is being made by a small company and while perhaps the best and most powerful product, has the growing issues of a small company. There have been some testing issues and right now there is a long backlog of orders with at least a 6 month delay, and no communications person to let everyone know the progress. But it is capable of 10 kW on it's own from an RV type plug. But at this point if you need something soon, you need to look elsewhere.
There is always the accessory delta Q charger. It is only a 1 kW unit, but can cut charge time in half for now, full charge in 4 hours with the onboard. But not good enough for traveling, just for faster charging at home really.
Call Hollywood Electrics and discuss your needs, vs time, cost and storage space and they can help you choose an option best for you as they carry all 4 types of chargers listed above.
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A data point for those considering the Charge Tank. This was this past Saturday.
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5454/30602392645_0a26a66fbb.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NCegap)
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Similarly, I have some data from this morning after I picked up my Elcon charger last night and also lost my 120V cable (don't ride with it in the frame, it can fall out!), so had to charge at work at a level 2 ChargePoint this morning.
I was at about 60% this morning and it took about an hour to get to the 85% level where it reduces current and was at 100% and no current at a total of 90 minutes. The max rate was 4.09kW, much better than my last ChargePoint charges on the adapter cable that maxed out about 1.4kW. This is with a single Elcon charger with 2 cables going into the bike, one passthrough to the side standard port and one on the quick charge port underneath. The ChargePoint station was a dual unit and the other side was in use so it's possible I didn't get the maximum possible current out of it but it seems about right.
The Elcon is bulky, heavy, and unwieldy to haul around but in use seems to perform similarly to the Charge Tank, and in this sample test slightly better then the 3800 W last reported. The advantage is less cost and I only need to carry it when I'm going on a long trip (or in this case when my regular cable is missing).
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I live in europe, so i can plug in at 230V Outlets everywhere. To get 2.1kw with the charge Tank when i Plug in the onboard charger compared to the 1.3 before would be a very nice! Its just so sad that on e lvl2 Charger the System only gets about 3.8kw. When you make tours you dont want to wait 2hrs to 2.5hrs to charge 80%, thats just not practical enough. So thats a bit sad :(
I'd love 2 Elcons, that would be a combined power of 6.3kw, what i would be perfectly happy with. But then i cant charge at 2.1kw at a standard socket right? because first - i dont want to carry the Elcons all the time, and second - 2.5kw of a single elcon would be to much for a 10A Socket when there is no way to turn that down manually..
Is it possible to combine the charge tank with an Elcon? So i would have 2.1/3.8kw for everyday use and can carry the elcon for long trips and then charge at perfectly fine 6.3kw
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My chargetank charges my ZF13 pack with a regular 230v connection on the side port with 2,2kW, filling the bike from 12% to 100% in 4.5 hours... The last 15 minutes the chargetank stops helping, probably the finishing stage somehow. It finishes at 1.3kW.
I'd also like to experiment with hooking up an extra PSU, so I can use 1.3kW internal + 2.6kW chargetank + 3.6kW PSU's on a three phase Mennekes. This should bulk fill the bike in just over 75 minutes from 0% to 80%ish instead of almost 150 minutes...
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does anyone know if it is possible to connect the chargetank and an elcon together for faster charging at 1 charginstation?
How many hours did your mechanic charge for the chargetank installation? Mine offers me 3.5hrs, what seems a lot to me, but maybe its normal?!
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does anyone know if it is possible to connect the chargetank and an elcon together for faster charging at 1 charging station?
Yes, you should be able to connect an Elcon or other charger through the accessory charging port. The Charge Tank is isolated so will not present a problem. The Charge Tank will also maintain the bike in charging mode, so you can turn the bike off and walk away while charging.
How many hours did your mechanic charge for the chargetank installation? Mine offers me 3.5hrs, what seems a lot to me, but maybe its normal?!
It seems that the install will take that long for a while, at least. Initial dealer reports were that this isn't an easy install. Maybe it'll get faster once dealers are more experienced with them, but there's apparently some cable rerouting that involves quite a bit of teardown.
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Thanks for your answer Brian! :)
Its good news that i can combine the elcon and the chargetank at the same time. Thats awesome. Elcon offers a Cable for adapting 2 elcons and the onboard charger into a J1772 Plug. https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/custom-j1772-adapter/ (https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/custom-j1772-adapter/)
Is there anything like this possible to connect the chargetank and the elcon to only have 1 Plug (Type2)?
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Its good news that i can combine the elcon and the chargetank at the same time. Thats awesome. Elcon offers a Cable for adapting 2 elcons and the onboard charger into a J1772 Plug. https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/custom-j1772-adapter/ (https://hollywoodelectrics.com/product/custom-j1772-adapter/)
Is there anything like this possible to connect the chargetank and the elcon to only have 1 Plug (Type2)?
It depends on what connection is used between the Charge Tank's J1772 inlet and the charger in the tank, but if it's a Brown Anderson connector and there's room to route the cabling, it seems doable. Ask Hollywood Electrics; they should have a good idea what's possible.
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Sorry if this has already been answered on this thread,but im considering buying a 2015 Zero S , but I need it to be able to do 114 mile round trip on my commute to work.Would be greatfull for any advice on my options for charging.The Nissan dealership across the road from work has a charge station for the leafs and have said I can charge there,what would I need to do this ? Can I just buy a special lead for the onboard charger,or do I need the power tank or a fast charger ?
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Either of those should work. The power tanks isn't for charging but an extra battery brick to give you some more range. You can also choose for the charge tank, you loose to option to get extra range but you'll charge significantly faster.
To charge at a charging station you'll need an adapter but that's it in most cases, but have you already taken a walk on your own parking lot at work? You might encounter a stray outlet somewhere that you can use, that would make it much easier.
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Sorry if this has already been answered on this thread,but im considering buying a 2015 Zero S , but I need it to be able to do 114 mile round trip on my commute to work.Would be greatfull for any advice on my options for charging.The Nissan dealership across the road from work has a charge station for the leafs and have said I can charge there,what would I need to do this ? Can I just buy a special lead for the onboard charger,or do I need the power tank or a fast charger ?
I have a 2016 DSR and have a 100Mi round trip commute. I am lucky in that I have both Level-2 and outlet charging available at work. On my bike, if I take the highway (35 Miles at 70 MPH and 15 Miles at 45 MPH), I arrive with 30% charge remaining. If I take the back roads (45-50 MPH), I arrive with 50%. So a round trip might just be possible on the back roads, but it would be tight. I think you'll need to find a way/place to charge at work for a 114 Mile round trip.
Steve
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Sorry if this has already been answered on this thread,but im considering buying a 2015 Zero S , but I need it to be able to do 114 mile round trip on my commute to work.Would be greatfull for any advice on my options for charging.The Nissan dealership across the road from work has a charge station for the leafs and have said I can charge there,what would I need to do this ? Can I just buy a special lead for the onboard charger,or do I need the power tank or a fast charger ?
I have a 2016 DSR and have a 100Mi round trip commute. I am lucky in that I have both Level-2 and outlet charging available at work. On my bike, if I take the highway (35 Miles at 70 MPH and 15 Miles at 45 MPH), I arrive with 30% charge remaining. If I take the back roads (45-50 MPH), I arrive with 50%. So a round trip might just be possible on the back roads, but it would be tight. I think you'll need to find a way/place to charge at work for a 114 Mile round trip.
Steve
Do I need a quick charger to plug into the charge station, or do I buy a special lead that plugs the onboard charger into the station ?
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I have a J1771 adapter that I purchased from TusconAV for $145.00. It has two appliance cords coming out of it. and the J1771 coming in. I can use one to use the on-board charger only, or that and the second one to power my QuiQ charger (I have 1x QuiQ). I get about 2500 Watts of charging with both chargers running. That's how it works with Level-2, for the standard outside outlet we have near the parking lot, I just use an extension cord. Even with just the on-board, I can top off from 30% to 100% in about 6 hours (I work longer days than that!).
If you were to purchase a Charge Tank, you would just plug the J1771 in directly to your bike, I think you get 3.3KW charging with that setup.
I am lucky that we have 8 free Level-2 chargers in the parking lot at work, and we have the external outlet that I have permission to use. The level-2 slots are hardly ever in use (I've never seen more than 2 in use at a time).
Steve
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The DigiNow is a much better option because it is a faster, more powerful charger, its modular and you can fit 9.9 kW in the tank area + the 1.3 kW onboard with the use of 2 J-plugs.
Zero has to meet strict world wide EMI requirements and it is hard to do that with other hardware. Don't blame Zero, blame the requirements (European, I believe. )
Here are some numbers (updated):
Charge Tank= 2.5 +1.3 kW
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 2195
Cost per kW =US$ 578/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 2.9 hours
DigiNow 3.3 +1.3 kW
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 1755 (Install is easy/ free)
Cost per kW =US$ 382/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 2:21 hours
DigiNow 6.6 +1.3 kW
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 2710
Cost per kW =US$ 343/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 1:22 hours
DigiNow 9.9 + 1.3 kW
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 3600
Cost per kW =US$ 321/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 0:58 hours
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Nice analysis Killroy!!
Yes Testpilot1 I would get a 2016 or 2017 SR if you can because it will have a 13.0 battery vs the 12.5 in 2015.
It will also have much better power density and the IPM motor
The 2017 will come with a stronger belt and have even more power, so the 2017 is advised if possible.
And like Killroy suggested, go with the 6.6 Diginow supercharger in the tank to take full advantage of the J1772 at the Nissan place across the street.
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The DigiNow is a much better option because it is a faster, more powerful charger, its modular and you can fit 9.9 kW in the tank area + the 1.3 kW onboard with the use of 2 J-plugs.
Zero has to meet strict world wide EMI requirements and it is hard to do that with other hardware. Don't blame Zero, blame the requirements (European, I believe. )
Here are some numbers:
Charge Tank + On-board Charger= 3.8 kW
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 2195
Cost per kW =US$ 578/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 2:90 hours
DigiNow 3.3 kw + On-board Charger= 4.6 kW
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 1755 (Install is easy/ free)
Cost per kW =US$ 382/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 1:29 hours
DigiNow 6.6 kw + On-board Charger= 7.9 kW
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 2710
Cost per kW =US$ 343/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 0:52 hours
DigiNow 9.9 kw + On-board Charger= 11.2 kW
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 3600
Cost per kW =US$ 321/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 0:37 hours
Is your math off or am I?
How do you get less than 1 hour charing time with 7.9 kW ?
But the concept is correct;)
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Is your math off or am I?
How do you get less than 1 hour charing time with 7.9 kW ?
But the concept is correct;)
its because hes not showing 100% charging time..
All lipo batteries get full current charging until they hit the voltage max at that current... then the voltages is held there, so logically the current starts tapering down. So the very last bit of charging on the battery takes much longer than the rest below it.
the higher the peak charge rate, the sooner it starts tapering down.
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Is your math off or am I?
How do you get less than 1 hour charing time with 7.9 kW ?
But the concept is correct;)
its because hes not showing 100% charging time..
All lipo batteries get full current charging until they hit the voltage max at that current... then the voltages is held there, so logically the current starts tapering down. So the very last bit of charging on the battery takes much longer than the rest below it.
the higher the peak charge rate, the sooner it starts tapering down.
The digiNow table with similar numbers lists these times as charging to 80%, not 95%. Still, charging with a 7.9kW source for 52 minutes simplistically yields 6.85kWh, which is only 53% of 13kWh. http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php (http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php)
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Great response guys thankyou, very informative .......... I'm not technically minded like a lot of you, so bare with me. So if I just got the suitable lead to plug the onboard charger into the Nissan dealership ( think the class 2 is 22kw ) , would it charge any quicker than my home 240 V supply ? Or do I need the diginow ?
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22kW, you must also be located in Europe then? But no, when using only your kettle plug the bike will always charge at the same rate using the on board charger.
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The DigiNow is a much better option because it is a faster, more powerful charger, its modular and you can fit 9.9 kW in the tank area + the 1.3 kW onboard with the use of 2 J-plugs.
Zero has to meet strict world wide EMI requirements and it is hard to do that with other hardware. Don't blame Zero, blame the requirements (European, I believe. )
Here are some numbers (updated):
Charge Tank= 2.5 kW
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 2195
Cost per kW =US$ 878/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 2.9 hours
DigiNow 3.3 kw
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 1755 (Install is easy/ free)
Cost per kW =US$ 532/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 2:21 hours
DigiNow 6.6 kw
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 2710
Cost per kW =US$ 411/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 1:22 hours
DigiNow 9.9 kw
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 3600
Cost per kW =US$ 364/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 0:58 hours
I got the numbers wrong before and I corrected them I'm just pulling from Zero and DigiNow and I was confused with 0-80%, 0-95% and with and without the 1.3 kW onboard charger.
With the charge tank, when you plug in the J-Plug, does the 1.3 kW charger get used too? Is the total 2.5 kW with the on board or is it 2.5 kW +1.3 kW the total?
Note that the 0-95% times on DigiNow are without the 1.3 kW onboard, so if you plug in the onboard, which could be a separate step, then it will go even faster up to 1C or the limit of your charge station.
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The DigiNow is a much better option because it is a faster, more powerful charger, its modular and you can fit 9.9 kW in the tank area + the 1.3 kW onboard with the use of 2 J-plugs.
Zero has to meet strict world wide EMI requirements and it is hard to do that with other hardware. Don't blame Zero, blame the requirements (European, I believe. )
Here are some numbers (updated):
Charge Tank= 2.5 kW
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 2195
Cost per kW =US$ 878/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 2.9 hours
DigiNow 3.3 kw
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 1755 (Install is easy/ free)
Cost per kW =US$ 532/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 2:21 hours
DigiNow 6.6 kw
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 2710
Cost per kW =US$ 411/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 1:22 hours
DigiNow 9.9 kw
Charge Tank Cost + Install =~US$ 3600
Cost per kW =US$ 364/ kW
95% Recharge Time 13.0kWh = 0:58 hours
I got the numbers wrong before and I corrected them I'm just pulling from Zero and DigiNow and I was confused with 0-80%, 0-95% and with and without the 1.3 kW onboard charger.
With the charge tank, when you plug in the J-Plug, does the 1.3 kW charger get used too? Is the total 2.5 kW with the on board or is it 2.5 kW +1.3 kW the total?
Note that the 0-95% times on DigiNow are without the 1.3 kW onboard, so if you plug in the onboard, which could be a separate step, then it will go even faster up to 1C or the limit of your charge station.
Yes, charge tank will use onboard for 3.8kW total.
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With the charge tank you get 3,8kW from the books, but in real life it's more like 3kW. Been there, done that, have the logfiles ;)
Also, with 6,6kW charging power the bulk fill rate is approximately 1 minute per % so 20-95% takes 75 minutes. Also, been there, etc.
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With the charge tank you get 3,8kW from the books, but in real life it's more like 3kW. Been there, done that, have the logfiles ;)
Also, with 6,6kW charging power the bulk fill rate is approximately 1 minute per % so 20-95% takes 75 minutes. Also, been there, etc.
Ok that makes better sense, so I had to revise the numbers again.
Do you had a power tank and not you have the DigiNow, or do you have both?
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I still have the charge tank for flexibility. I can now charge at home single phase with 1,3kW without or at 2kW with the charge tank, on the Mennekes with 3,3 kW, or with my homebrew Remmie-supercharger at 6,6kW total.
To clarify, I have the 1.3kW onboard, the 2kW'ish chargetank and the 3.6kW homebrew Remmie-charger. This add up to just under 7kW in practical use, the app shows 6950W max charge power.
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I still have the charge tank for flexibility. I can now charge at home single phase with 1,3kW without or at 2kW with the charge tank, on the Mennekes with 3,3 kW, or with my homebrew Remmie-supercharger at 6,6kW total.
To clarify, I have the 1.3kW onboard, the 2kW'ish chargetank and the 3.6kW homebrew Remmie-charger. This add up to just under 7kW in practical use, the app shows 6950W max charge power.
how do you combine the chargetank and the hombrew charger? Do you plug in 2 times or can you use all of the chargers (so 7kw) with one Mennekes cable?
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Remember you can not use all 13kWh of your pack. using the onboard charger you get about 11.2kWh useable and using the diginow you get about 12.2 kWh useable
if you have an older pack it is similar 12.5 you get around 10.5-11kWh
and 11.4 you get 9-10 kWh useable
industry standard measurements are 20% - 80%
Thats why we also add in the hershner rate which is 0%-cutback
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Yups, made a custom cable mennekes <> j1772 that also breaks out the unused phases to use them with the homebrew.