ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: cic on March 23, 2016, 05:38:16 AM
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Hey all, I know this sounds like a pretty crazy question, but in looking at moving from an ICE bike to an electric, I just have to know what users are experiencing outside of marketing information.
What's your maximum sustained speed on a 2016 or 2015 SR? I've heard rumors of power drops under 50% SOC and not being able to hit the 95mph anymore.
While I know that maximum top speed is just over 100mph, I don't care so much about that as I do being able to stay at the 90ish level for extended periods of time.
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Ignoring reports of power drops, you will get very poor range at high speeds. 70mph is really what you should count on for their range figures. [I have a DSR]
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Hey all, I know this sounds like a pretty crazy question, but in looking at moving from an ICE bike to an electric, I just have to know what users are experiencing outside of marketing information.
What's your maximum sustained speed on a 2016 or 2015 SR? I've heard rumors of power drops under 50% SOC and not being able to hit the 95mph anymore.
While I know that maximum top speed is just over 100mph, I don't care so much about that as I do being able to stay at the 90ish level for extended periods of time.
You can do that on a SR, you just have to get ceramic bearings and ride like this. The shirt and pants off are key to the aerodynamics says Zero's newly hired Aerodynamicist, Flow.
(http://www.graphicsexpress.com/shop/images/th2_MC-6.jpg)
A Vetter fairing and gearing could help.
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The sustained top speed is 10 mph faster on the 2016 because of the IPM motor. Just curious though, where do you live? Texas? I know they have an 85 mph speed limit there. But I wouldn't expect more than about 60 miles range at those speeds. Or 75 miles with the powertank and that's if you're in a race type tuck.
How far is your commute? If less than 30 miles each way, you should be fine. Or if you can find a place to plug in at work than don't even worry about it. At about 80-85 mph I get about 80 miles range and it will hold highway speeds of 70 mph on my bike all the way down to 0%. Then it starts to slow down gradually while I can go another 5 miles with the throttle twisted all the way, 10 miles if I slow down and milk it. I have a 2015, the 2016's should be even better.
Zero's speedometer is pretty accurate within about a mile per hour. Many gas bikes I've had like my R1 the speedometer read 5-8 mph fast. So when it said I was doing 100 mph I was really doing 92-95. Do you ride your gas bike at 95 mph indicated? What kind of bike is it? Only reason I say this is you might really only be going 90 mph. But the 2016 Zero SR should hold 95 mph for your entire commute. Go take one for a test ride and tell us what you think!!!
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My 2015 SR cut back power and speed so I could only go 100km/h at about 4% I think it was. It was before it hit 0%. Honestly its so low it doesn't matter.
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The sustained top speed is 10 mph faster on the 2016 because of the IPM motor. Just curious though, where do you live? Texas? I know they have an 85 mph speed limit there. But I wouldn't expect more than about 60 miles range at those speeds. Or 75 miles with the powertank and that's if you're in a race type tuck.
How far is your commute? If less than 30 miles each way, you should be fine. Or if you can find a place to plug in at work than don't even worry about it. At about 80-85 mph I get about 80 miles range and it will hold highway speeds of 70 mph on my bike all the way down to 0%. Then it starts to slow down gradually while I can go another 5 miles with the throttle twisted all the way, 10 miles if I slow down and milk it. I have a 2015, the 2016's should be even better.
Zero's speedometer is pretty accurate within about a mile per hour. Many gas bikes I've had like my R1 the speedometer read 5-8 mph fast. So when it said I was doing 100 mph I was really doing 92-95. Do you ride your gas bike at 95 mph indicated? What kind of bike is it? Only reason I say this is you might really only be going 90 mph. But the 2016 Zero SR should hold 95 mph for your entire commute. Go take one for a test ride and tell us what you think!!!
My commute is 13 miles each way so I'm not really worried about the range. I live in California.
During the test drive I was only able to touch 90 mph at about 98% SoC, so it didn't really help me understand what happens as charge drops during sustained speeds. My current bike is a kawi concours with a 1400cc engine and I may (or may not) routinely cruise at 100mph+ speeds as the road conditions and traffic allow it. ;)
Because of the test drive I really want to get one. I was amazed at the acceleration and feel of the bike in general. Again, I REALLY want to get one, but one of the things I want to know is if I'll be able to cruise at 90mph for extended periods of time. I know that over 100mph is really not possible though and that's of real concern to me, as silly as it might sound.
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Hey all, I know this sounds like a pretty crazy question, but in looking at moving from an ICE bike to an electric, I just have to know what users are experiencing outside of marketing information.
What's your maximum sustained speed on a 2016 or 2015 SR? I've heard rumors of power drops under 50% SOC and not being able to hit the 95mph anymore.
While I know that maximum top speed is just over 100mph, I don't care so much about that as I do being able to stay at the 90ish level for extended periods of time.
You can do that on a SR, you just have to get ceramic bearings and ride like this. The shirt and pants off are key to the aerodynamics says Zero's newly hired Aerodynamicist, Flow.
(http://www.graphicsexpress.com/shop/images/th2_MC-6.jpg)
A Vetter fairing and gearing could help.
I'm already waxed up and prepared on that front. I just need the speedo trunks now.
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Ignoring reports of power drops, you will get very poor range at high speeds. 70mph is really what you should count on for their range figures. [I have a DSR]
Completely understood. I'm trying to understand long term sustained maximum speed though, not prolonging battery life. I hope that doesn't come off as too jerky of a response :)
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My 2015 SR cut back power and speed so I could only go 100km/h at about 4% I think it was. It was before it hit 0%. Honestly its so low it doesn't matter.
Awesome man, thank you. Best answer of the day. You don't own any apple products, do you? :-p
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My commute is 13 miles each way so I'm not really worried about the range. I live in California.
During the test drive I was only able to touch 90 mph at about 98% SoC, so it didn't really help me understand what happens as charge drops during sustained speeds. My current bike is a kawi concours with a 1400cc engine and I may (or may not) routinely cruise at 100mph+ speeds as the road conditions and traffic allow it. ;)
Because of the test drive I really want to get one. I was amazed at the acceleration and feel of the bike in general. Again, I REALLY want to get one, but one of the things I want to know is if I'll be able to cruise at 90mph for extended periods of time. I know that over 100mph is really not possible though and that's of real concern to me, as silly as it might sound.
Just to check you test rode the SR not the DSR, DS or S, right?
Since you live in California you are lucky. Even luckier if its in the LA area. There is a shop in West Hollywood called Hollywood Electrics on the corner of Willoughby and Fairfax. They have been the #1 Zero dealer in the world since 2009 when they opened. They also focus on racing Zero's and aftermarket upgrades. I can guess 2 things they can do to increase your top speed but I'll bet Harlan and the guys there have a bunch of tricks up their sleeves.
First is to do a 30/130 to 30/98 gear change. This would get you a theoretical top speed of 135 mph, but perhaps more like 115-120 if you are in a full race tuck because of aerodynamic resistance. Or perhaps do a 28/98 gear swap. That would give you 126 mph potential top speed.
The other is to have the RPM limit raised from about 6000 to perhaps 6500. Or whatever you like to get the top speed you want. This would technically void your warranty, but on the IPM motor, one of the biggest concerns that caused the 6000 RPM limit was dislodged magnets from the surface mount rotor design from 2013-2015. So for 2016 it shouldn't be a concern.
Good luck on your new bike! I think you'll find the Concours collecting a lot of dust after you get an SR. I never had a desire to ride my Yamaha YZF-R1 even once after getting my Zero and so finally sold it after it sat for 10 months feeling neglected. ;)
Remember stop in and chat with the guys from Hollywood Electrics. They can do anything you want there. That's what they are known for.
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How many Zero Motorcycles has Hollywood Electric sold?
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I think in 2013 they got an award for being the first dealer to sell 100 Zero motorcycles. And their sales have gone up every year. I'm sure it's over 200 by now maybe more. It seems like every 4-5 days they post a picture on their facebook page of a new owner taking delivery of a bike. But they also are the only dealer in the world I think that doesn't also sell gas bikes.
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dealer here in Israel only sells electric too. I think there are a couple such shops in europe.
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My commute is 13 miles each way so I'm not really worried about the range. I live in California.
During the test drive I was only able to touch 90 mph at about 98% SoC, so it didn't really help me understand what happens as charge drops during sustained speeds. My current bike is a kawi concours with a 1400cc engine and I may (or may not) routinely cruise at 100mph+ speeds as the road conditions and traffic allow it. ;)
Because of the test drive I really want to get one. I was amazed at the acceleration and feel of the bike in general. Again, I REALLY want to get one, but one of the things I want to know is if I'll be able to cruise at 90mph for extended periods of time. I know that over 100mph is really not possible though and that's of real concern to me, as silly as it might sound.
Just to check you test rode the SR not the DSR, DS or S, right?
Since you live in California you are lucky. Even luckier if its in the LA area. There is a shop in West Hollywood called Hollywood Electrics on the corner of Willoughby and Fairfax. They have been the #1 Zero dealer in the world since 2009 when they opened. They also focus on racing Zero's and aftermarket upgrades. I can guess 2 things they can do to increase your top speed but I'll bet Harlan and the guys there have a bunch of tricks up their sleeves.
First is to do a 30/130 to 30/98 gear change. This would get you a theoretical top speed of 135 mph, but perhaps more like 115-120 if you are in a full race tuck because of aerodynamic resistance. Or perhaps do a 28/98 gear swap. That would give you 126 mph potential top speed.
The other is to have the RPM limit raised from about 6000 to perhaps 6500. Or whatever you like to get the top speed you want. This would technically void your warranty, but on the IPM motor, one of the biggest concerns that caused the 6000 RPM limit was dislodged magnets from the surface mount rotor design from 2013-2015. So for 2016 it shouldn't be a concern.
Good luck on your new bike! I think you'll find the Concours collecting a lot of dust after you get an SR. I never had a desire to ride my Yamaha YZF-R1 even once after getting my Zero and so finally sold it after it sat for 10 months feeling neglected. ;)
Remember stop in and chat with the guys from Hollywood Electrics. They can do anything you want there. That's what they are known for.
That's a lot of amazing information, thank you. I'm here in SF, but I need to ask about any tricks they have... or even take a trip down to LA to see what they can do :)
I did ride an SR. I also rode the DSR and it wasn't quite my thing. Too tall and wobbly because of the tires. I did like the idea that I could push over curbs with ease on it, but I just don't see myself doing that all too often.
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That's a lot of amazing information, thank you. I'm here in SF, but I need to ask about any tricks they have... or even take a trip down to LA to see what they can do :)
I did ride an SR. I also rode the DSR and it wasn't quite my thing. Too tall and wobbly because of the tires. I did like the idea that I could push over curbs with ease on it, but I just don't see myself doing that all too often.
I'm assuming you want to ride flat-out on 280, because I can't think of another Bay Area stretch where you can safely achieve that.
The DSR's stock tires are slightly too knobby for street riding, it's true. I intend to switch mine out (once worn enough) to some 90/10 touring tires which work great on my 13 DS.
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I did ride an SR. I also rode the DSR and it wasn't quite my thing. Too tall and wobbly because of the tires. I did like the idea that I could push over curbs with ease on it, but I just don't see myself doing that all too often.
Why bother with a DSR if its not your thing. The SR gets slightly better range so just go with it.
Harlan is well known at Zero and I believe is the reason we have an SR in the Zero range (he did it first).
Why didn't you get over 90mph on your test ride? Bike would not do it or no place to do it?
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Why didn't you get over 90mph on your test ride? Bike would not do it or no place to do it?
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The test drive route and traffic didn't really allow for it. I grazed it, so I know it gets there. I just wasn't able to hold it. Also the battery was fully charged. I really just want to know if I can hold high speeds for long periods, notwithstanding the battery drain rate.
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If you do a 28/98 gear swap for the love of all things motorcycle only use a belt tension of 45kN and nothing lower. (this is true with any 28 front on size six zero's)
If you do anything lower it will strip the teeth from the belt ... ask me how I know :D
Also ... I had bearing issues in my motor which I couldn't track down to a root cause ... it could have been the fact the belt tension was high or it could have been something else. I had about 10k on the bike when it started to give me issues so be warned ;)
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The test drive route and traffic didn't really allow for it. I grazed it, so I know it gets there. I just wasn't able to hold it. Also the battery was fully charged. I really just want to know if I can hold high speeds for long periods, notwithstanding the battery drain rate.
From SF Moto? I am totally not surprised. I took a group test ride from there and spent most of my attention on the group safety aspect.
Anyway, I have a 16 and have run it at 90 for a bit, but would need clear traffic on a major highway on a hot day to test this. The 16 SR/DSR both have IPM motors that should not reduce output based on motor temperature. I can say that the motor temperature does not climb very much at sustained highway speeds.
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Brian you have a 2016 DSR right? That has a 28/130 gear and a top speed of 98 mph with 90 mph sustained. The SR has a gearing of 30/130 and so a top speed of 102 and 95 mph sustained.
And Burton I'm fairly certain your motor bearing failure was due to aftermarket ceramic bearings that might offer less friction due to amazing smoothness and hardness for racing but aren't as durable long term. I had a 28/98 setup and my newer 2013 design motor (on my 2012 Zero) has gone tens of thousands of miles and runs like it is brand new.
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And Burton I'm fairly certain your motor bearing failure was due to aftermarket ceramic bearings that might offer less friction due to amazing smoothness and hardness for racing but aren't as durable long term. I had a 28/98 setup and my newer 2013 design motor (on my 2012 Zero) has gone tens of thousands of miles and runs like it is brand new.
Good to know sir as I still have a 28 laying around I have been debating using when I get streamlined more so I can drop my 70mph cruising rpm back down. (and of course test this empirically against the stock SR front) What belt tension do you run?
Thinking about it I have a 28 30 130 and 98 at home right now lol
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Brian you have a 2016 DSR right? That has a 28/130 gear and a top speed of 98 mph with 90 mph sustained. The SR has a gearing of 30/130 and so a top speed of 102 and 95 mph sustained.
And Burton I'm fairly certain your motor bearing failure was due to aftermarket ceramic bearings that might offer less friction due to amazing smoothness and hardness for racing but aren't as durable long term. I had a 28/98 setup and my newer 2013 design motor (on my 2012 Zero) has gone tens of thousands of miles and runs like it is brand new.
The DSR tire is 130/80/17, which is about 2% taller than the 140/70/17 on the SR. This will slightly reduce the gearing advantage from the 28 tooth front.
With the tire difference, the DSR is geared about 5% higher than the SR and should accelerate to 60 a bit faster. Yet Zero claims 3.9s for the DSR, where they claim 3.3s still for the SR.
Off-topic alert:
In various third-party instrumented reviews, the SR has tested as significantly slower (with an American-sized rider) than Zero's claims. I wonder if the DSR's performance claims are closer to the actual performance, and Zero simply can't/won't adjust the SR spec to a more accurate number (to avoid negative press over "lower" performance).
Has anyone run a DSR against a SR to see which accelerates harder? I've ridden a SR alongside a DSR but I didn't think to do a full acceleration test.
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In various third-party instrumented reviews, the SR has tested as significantly slower (with an American-sized rider) than Zero's claims.
Of course it does. The weight of the load makes a difference even in a car. Add 20kg (power tank) and the SR goes back to 3.9 0-60 mph.
I think I read somewhere that the 0-60 mph was with a 70kg (or 70 something) rider. Most of us guys are heavier than that so we will never get 3.3.
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I live in SoCal, my commute is ~25 miles, and I typically am going 80-90mph for most of it. I usually get to work with ~65% power left, and then I recharge and repeat for the ride home. :)