ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: LeftieBiker on February 25, 2016, 10:36:56 AM
-
I can't find a topic for general questions about charging 2013+ Zeros, so I'm starting one. Hopefully I didn't miss an existing one.
My 2015 SR Demo is supposed to finally arrive tomorrow morning, after being hauled from California to Upstate NY. Hopefully it will have somewhere between 50% and 90% charge, but in case I have to charge it immediately, I'd like to know if a surge protector (2100 joules) outlet strip plugged into a portable GFCI outlet is the way to go, or if I should just plug the surge protector strip directly into an outlet. I'm very concerned about charger failures, and that is my #1 priority, rather than the extra personal safety a GFCI offers, so I'll cheerfully leave the GFCI out of the circuit if necessary.
-
Charger failures are not due to surges, any AC outlet should be OK.
Failures are due to poor quality of components or manufacture quality.
basically we are seeing out of box failures. It is cheaper to mass produce
and send to customer untested than pay for testing and burn in.
hopefully OEM will check faulty units and upgrade faulty part or manufacture.
Eventually we get a charger that works or Zero will change OEM or design.
-
+1
I was thinking of buying a surge protector for my socket at home, but have decided not to bother. I've never needed them before for televisions, computers or any other equipment around the house. I've known televisions to last over twenty years. All electronic components should be designed to be plugged into the grid and cope with it's normal fluctuations.
I've also noticed that there's a delay of a few seconds between plugging in and the start of charging. Therefore there isn't an immediate rush of current just as you plug in.
I hope that puts your mind at rest.
-
"Charger failures are not due to surges, any AC outlet should be OK. Failures are due to poor quality of components or manufacture quality. basically we are seeing out of box failures. It is cheaper to mass produce and send to customer untested than pay for testing and burn in."
I've been reading here about chargers failing after weeks or months or years of use. I didn't realize that at first and was hoping that getting a demo bike would eliminate the OOB failure problem. Now I'm not so sure...
MostlyBonkers, I think that whether or not you need a surge protector depends on your local grid reliability. I'm not worried about minor fluctuations so much as I am about thinks like a tree falling on the line nearby and multiplying the voltage. We get that during thunder and even ice storms here, and it can fry *anything* not surge-protected. I realize that the issue is poor quality - I'm just hoping to reduce the stresses on those poor components.
So back to the GFCI question. Do I leave it plugged into one and just see if it trips it, or not use a GFCI box at all?
-
A ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) or Residual Current Device (RCD) is a device that shuts off an electric power circuit when it detects that current is flowing along an unintended path, such as through water or a person. (I had to google as i did not know what GFCI is)
If you have surge protectors and GFCI, no harm in using them, electronics should be designed to use them. GFCI is designed to protect users from electric shock, best to use if you have one.
but any major power line disaster (lightning strike, shorted phases/cables touching) will most likely blow the crap out of surge protector and device it is protecting.
-
I should have written that I have a good basic knowledge of this stuff. I'm looking for opinions and experiences on Zero charger weaknesses. I seem to recall that some of them trip GFCI outlets even while they still work.
"but any major power line disaster (lightning strike, shorted phases/cables touching) will most likely blow the crap out of surge protector and device it is protecting."
A lightning strike to the house would certainly do that, but we've had lots of reports of power line surges that killed unprotected appliances but not those with surge protection. I consider surge protectors to be a basic defense system for all expensive electronics. Sure, they *should* be able to handle normal power fluctuations, but we're talking about poor quality chargers here...
-
CFGI is fine, but occasionally it might trip and turn your charge off for no good reason. So for things that I don't want to get interrupted, like my internet service or my electric scooter's charging, I avoid CFGI circuits. Surge protector is always a good idea.
-
CFGI is fine, but occasionally it might trip and turn your charge off for no good reason. So for things that I don't want to get interrupted, like my internet service or my electric scooter's charging, I avoid CFGI circuits. Surge protector is always a good idea.
Thanks. Those false trips were what concerned me. I haven't figured out, from reading here, if only the faulty chargers are causing them, or if all the chargers are. Maybe I will skip the GFCI component of the charging setup.
-
Where in upstate New York do you live? I live in New Jersey near New York City and regularly ride up in the Hudson Valley.
-
Near Mechanicville, about 30 minutes North of Albany, on the Hudson. I've been driving a Leaf for close the three years, and have had electric bikes, scooters and bicycles for much longer.
-
Oh, you have some nice riding around there! I passed by your area on the way to Montreal. I hope to get some riding time in the green mountains someday.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I don't have a Zero, ride a Vectrix. On my first charger, I used to be able to charge at a certain CFGI outlet no problem. When that first charger burned out, the replacement charger would trip that CFGI almost every time. But would work fine on a bunch of other CFGIs and on regular outlets. So the charger is working fine, that one CFGI seems overly sensitive for some reason... And these chargers don't draw much current at all at the beginning of the charge, just perhaps 2-3A, so I'm not sure what's causing it...
CFGI is fine, but occasionally it might trip and turn your charge off for no good reason. So for things that I don't want to get interrupted, like my internet service or my electric scooter's charging, I avoid CFGI circuits. Surge protector is always a good idea.
Thanks. Those false trips were what concerned me. I haven't figured out, from reading here, if only the faulty chargers are causing them, or if all the chargers are. Maybe I will skip the GFCI component of the charging setup.
-
I guess I'll try it with the GFCI outlet (unless I don't ;-) and remove that if it trips.
-
I've said it in a few other threads, if you have to charge from a GFCI outlet, break the ground pin off your charge cord and it will work fine every time. Also from ChargePoint stations. It trips the level 1 each and every time for me unless I use a plug with the ground pin broken off and then it works each and every time. Someone also posted that you can buy a cheater adapter from the hardware store that allows grounded devices to work in old houses that only have a 2 prong outlets. I haven't tried that but it should work too. It's just easier to me to take your thumb and push the ground pin off. Takes 2 seconds.
-
I really, really wouldn't break the ground pin off. get a grounding adapter! The damage to the plug could extend beyond the broken pin.
-
Don't upset Terry, Leftie! I'm sure breaking the pin off won't harm the plug. [emoji4]
I'm a little surprised that you're so worried about all this charging stuff. I'm definitely not bothering with any surge protection or other fancy equipment. If my charger fails again I'll get it replaced under warranty. Once it's out of warranty I'll be ready for a change no doubt.
-
I have no dealer near me. Even if I did I'd want to avoid the hassle of having major components replaced, and I generally prefer to protect vulnerable electronics instead of testing them to their limits. Thus this evening I placed a good quality, UL-listed grounding adapter in the tank bag with the charging cable. Now I have the option of charging with no ground circuit, should that be necessary, with no damage done to anything.
-
Fair enough. What does UL-listed mean Leftie? Any chance you can post a link so I can check it out please?
-
Fair enough. What does UL-listed mean Leftie? Any chance you can post a link so I can check it out please?
http://ul.com/marks/ul-listing-and-classification-marks/ (http://ul.com/marks/ul-listing-and-classification-marks/)
-
Fair enough. What does UL-listed mean Leftie? Any chance you can post a link so I can check it out please?
http://ul.com/marks/ul-listing-and-classification-marks/ (http://ul.com/marks/ul-listing-and-classification-marks/)
I had also picked up a pair of new, non-UL-listed adapters, but the prongs were actually loose in the plastic. Junk.
-
Thanks Brian. I'll have to take a closer look.
-
Don't upset Terry, Leftie! I'm sure breaking the pin off won't harm the plug. [emoji4]
Only yourself.
-
...this evening I placed a good quality, UL-listed grounding adapter in the tank bag with the charging cable.
Make sure it's rated for 15A. Many of those cheaters (like a lot of the cheaper PC-style power cords) are rated for 10A or less, and will overheat if you use them on one of Zero's bikes. The Zero charger can draw in excess of 12A when it's bulk charging, and some people have had issues with cheaper cords.
Really, Leftie, you're making problems where none exist. My charger was one of the ones that failed, and it did so charging at home just like it always did, just like it had for several hundred cycles already. I'm an EE, I'm familiar with line voltages and their pathologies, and I'm convinced no GFI or surge suppressor would have saved it -- it was a marginal design, like many cheap Chinese products these days, which was redesigned to be more rugged when they had excessive field failures.
As Terry says, if you do use one of the overly-sensitive charge statiosn, breaking the ground connection is an easy (and safe) way to ensure there will be no current on the ground wire. I've had a digital oscilloscope that's run with no ground prong on the power cord for 20 years now.
-
Regarding to your last paragraph I am not a big fan of removing the ground plug. On an oscilloscope it makes more sense because it can interfere with the measurements but on a Zero you're dealing with heavier loads and it there will be times when you are charging when it rains.
-
Needless to say, I agree with Erasmo.
"Really, Leftie, you're making problems where none exist."
I'd say that a problem does in fact exist, and I'm doing what I can to avoid it, even though my actions probably won't prevent a failure. I see no reason to think I'm doing any harm by using a surge protector, and if there is an actual power surge, why would I not want the charger cushioned from it?
Anyway, I took my first ride, the bike is fantastic, and it's now charging. However, the master warning light is flickering every few seconds. I noticed it doing that shortly before I arrived home. The pack temp on arrival home was 124F, despite the ambient temp being about 55F and me not having pushed the bike hard. I waited until it dropped to 104F to start charging. Is that flickering warning light normal for charging, normal for charging with a warm pack, or abnormal? The charging section of the manual doesn't mention it...
-
Everytime I hear someone sing the praises of surge protectors I laugh a little.
Have you ever looked at a varistor from a surge protector? It's amazing it does anything. If you were truly worried about it, you would be better off with a digikey order of a handful of varistors... and stick them all on the wiring on the bike leading to the power supply input.
-
You folks can laugh all you want, especially if someone deigns to tell me whether that flickering master warning light is normal while charging. It flickers 5 or 6 times every few seconds.
-
I don't know about flickering lights, but the battery temperature rising to 124F (50C) in light riding in 55F ambient seems unusual. Others with Zeros - is this normal and should it be rising all that much? Or maybe your riding was more enthusiastic than suggested ;D?
In trying to answer my own question, I found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y8mKCV9lZc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y8mKCV9lZc) If indeed the battery temperature is what was showing on the screen, I'm very surprised - it fluctuates very quickly! There is no way the actual internal battery temperature changes that fast, especially cooling down. The sensor must be somewhere on the outside of the battery and near the wires...
You folks can laugh all you want, especially if someone deigns to tell me whether that flickering master warning light is normal while charging. It flickers 5 or 6 times every few seconds.
-
Check out section 6.3 in the manual, it should help you diagnose the error. You should have a flashing green light when charging, not the red light that comes on when the kickstand is down.
The first thing I would try is plugging the bike directly into your wall socket at home, just in case some of that extra equipment is confusing the charger somehow. When keyed off, the display should boot up, you'll hear the click from the contactor and the green light flashes to indicate charging has started.
It's worth checking the battery temperature in the app when the bike has been standing for a few hours. On my bike I reckon it reads at least 6C higher than ambient. That's at this time of year when it's cold. So the other morning it can't have been more than 2C ambient and the battery temp was reading 8C. During my 24 mile ride to work it maxed at 24C after a few miles of fast riding. It had dropped to 23C by the time I got to work because the last 8 miles are relatively slow city riding.
Is there any chance you could have confused pack temperature with motor temperature? The display on the bike only gives motor temp. 50C is normal for very sedate riding. It usually hovers around that if I'm riding in eco mode around town.
I hope that helps you a bit leftie. You could take a video clip of your charging, upload it to YouTube and post a link here if you like.
By the way, where does leftie come from? I assume a left wing political persuasion? Are you left handed? Just curious.
-
I did check out the manual a couple of times. My best guess is that I'm seeing a 5-5 "miscellaneous error" code. I'll look into it tomorrow. How do I retrieve error codes, again? I know it's in the manual, but that isn't always really clear. And yes, I was reading the motor temp - I'm still very new to the display, and forgot what I was seeing indicated. That motor really does need more air flowing over it!
I'll left-wing politically, and was born left-handed, but switched when I was young. Now I'm ambidextrous, but that's not a very catchy monicker...
-
"The first thing I would try is plugging the bike directly into your wall socket at home, just in case some of that extra equipment is confusing the charger somehow. "
I don't think it's my charging setup, simply because the flickering light started when I was a few blocks from home, on my way back, so I wasn't charging then. The bike did charge normally to 97% when I got home, at which point I had to stop it because the circuit was needed for an L-1 car charging station. I'll look into this all tomorrow, hoping against hope that the error will simply be gone...
-
A lot of people forget or just don't realize that regen adds a lot of heat to the motor/batteries. On cold winter mornings with ambient temps below freezing I can get the display temp to jump from 40F to over 90F by braking hard 3-4 times after accelerating to 30-40mph. If I stay off the interstate for my commute (which I always do when it's that cold out) it won't get much hotter than that. 124F at 55F ambient is TOTALLY normal with moderate riding.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
-
Just to be clear. Motor vs. battery vs. controller temps: there is a big difference! The battery temp should *not* be that high in moderate riding even if the motor is warmer. And the battery can't change its temp. quickly. The controller/motor can, and I would not worry about such temps. like these. Looks like Leftie was reading the motor temp, not the battery temp as his original post indicated.
A lot of people forget or just don't realize that regen adds a lot of heat to the motor/batteries. On cold winter mornings with ambient temps below freezing I can get the display temp to jump from 40F to over 90F by braking hard 3-4 times after accelerating to 30-40mph. If I stay off the interstate for my commute (which I always do when it's that cold out) it won't get much hotter than that. 124F at 55F ambient is TOTALLY normal with moderate riding.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
-
I don't think it's my charging setup, simply because the flickering light started when I was a few blocks from home, on my way back, so I wasn't charging then. The bike did charge normally to 97% when I got home, at which point I had to stop it because the circuit was needed for an L-1 car charging station. I'll look into this all tomorrow, hoping against hope that the error will simply be gone...
Yes, sorry, I missed the bit in your earlier post about the error code coming on while you were riding.
It's worth taking another look in the manual. Also, you could try emailing the logs from your bike to yourself using the app. Then just attach them to a new post on this topic and I'll try and decode them for you using Phreak's utility. I've had mixed results so far, but it would be interesting to give it a try.
-
Yes, we've established that Leftie was reading the motor temp and it's normal. Actually, a bit low if you ask me, especially for an SR. Ride it like you stole it Leftie! [emoji12]
I hope you don't mind me asking Leftie, but are you dyslexic by any chance? The reason I ask is that my sister is left handed and she suffers from dyslexia. I'm also left handed but not dyslexic, just bonkers - mostly. Although as I get older I do wonder whether I'm the problem or it's the rest of society. We seem to be happy to allow psychopaths to rule us for the most part, it seems. I digress...
-
I'm not dyslexic, but I do have some left/right brain communication issues.
I'm going to go out in about an hour and boot the bike up. I'll see if the error is still there, and try to retrieve the code. According to the manual, the dash will give me an error number, which can be translated using a page in the manual.
-
I learnt to do racquet sports with my right hand but still write with my left. I think most men have right/left brain communication issues. The cable that connects the two is much weaker than with women. It does help us focus more though...
Good luck with the error codes. If you get chance to use the app, it's worth emailing the logs to Zero at the very least. You could follow up with a call to them tomorrow.
-
I got the error codes and emailed the log - although since I can't register the bike with Zero without the pack ID#, and this number appears to be buried on a label that is incorrectly applied and half-buried under the "tank," I don't know if they will respond. What program do I use to view the log file?
Here are the codes:
0044 - Kill Switch Disable (presumably because the switch was off at the time)
0028 - BMS Isolation Fault
0020 - BMS Low Isolation
So the BMS is unhappy. Any ideas about these codes?
-
There is a short video on Youtube in which the owner describes the same codes, which led to the bike being unable to charge. His local dealer seems to think the motor assembly has a problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10aJnWkGWdI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10aJnWkGWdI)
Anyone want to buy a Zero SR? I'm really sick of this sh*t happening to me.
-
I would love to buy an SR Leftie! My problem is money. I'm very happy with my DS though. In fact, I'll seriously consider getting a DSR in a couple of years.
I'm really sorry to hear you've got this problem, especially so soon after taking delivery. Please keep some faith that Zero will sort it out one way or another.
In the meantime, email the logs to yourself, save the two file attachments on your PC and attach them to a post on this topic. I don't know how easy or hard you find this stuff to do, so let me know and I'll adjust my help accordingly. I did manage to put some instructions on how to use Phreak's utility in another thread, so I'll link to that in my next post.
-
http://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5428.msg40269#msg40269
-
Here's another tip:
http://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5428.msg40496#msg40496
-
I seem to recall only one DAT file, but I'll check again, and try to post it here. I used to work with things like DOS batch programming, but it's been too long, and I take pain meds that slow my brain.
-
I seem to recall only one DAT file, but I'll check again, and try to post it here. I used to work with things like DOS batch programming, but it's been too long, and I take pain meds that slow my brain.
Just my luck. The attachment feature isn't working with Firefox.
-
I seem to recall only one DAT file, but I'll check again, and try to post it here. I used to work with things like DOS batch programming, but it's been too long, and I take pain meds that slow my brain.
I think Zero should supply pain meds with their bikes, just to ease the path of ownership at times like these! ;-)
We'll work it out one way or another. Did you acquire your Zero through a dealer? If so, they should have all the info you need on vehicle numbers etc so that you can register your bike. If you bought privately, you could try the previous owner and ask which dealer they got it from.
-
I did buy through a dealer, but since I'm the first one to register the bike there is no reason they'd have the battery serial # written down. Anyway, Zero has responded to the log email, and it appears I am now registered with them. I had some pretty choice words this evening, though, for whoever put that emissions sticker on the bike...
-
That's good news at least. I've emailed zero asking if they're willing to release their own utility for reading the log files. I'm probably not the first to do so, which is why Phreak went to all the trouble of writing one. It doesn't hurt to ask though. They might change their mind.
I think a few people have had teething trouble with their bikes, myself included. I think it's all well worth it though. I really enjoy riding my DS.
-
Emissions sticker? Some fool thinks they've got a sense of humour!
-
Emissions sticker? Some fool thinks they've got a sense of humour!
I'm not even certain that's the right sticker, but given the location (upper left front of pack housing) and the lack of anything else with a battery serial number on it, I'm guessing that it is hidden on the half of the emission sticker I can't see. Another slightly odd thing: my zero app, which I downloaded last month, recognized the bike without me having to enter the serial number. Is that normal, these days...?
-
This is your file header:
Zero MBB log
Serial number b'2015_mbb_ca1a29_01119'
VIN b'538SM7Z34FCG05269'
Firmware rev. 25
Board rev. 3
Model b'SR'
This is mine:
Zero MBB log
Serial number b'2014_mbb_0386e1_01141'
VIN b'538SD5Z29ECB04470'
Firmware rev. 44
Board rev. 1
Model b'DS'
---
Straight off the bat, I recommend you see about getting the firmware updated as it looks like yours is quite old. It's probably never been updated.
I've attached the output file from your log.
The date/time stamps are either wrong or the bike has output data from October last year. I found this section that indicates you (or a previous owner) keying the bike off and starting a charge:
02301 2015-10-04 01:44:12 Power off (key switch)
02302 2015-10-04 01:44:12 Sevcon power off
02303 2015-10-04 01:44:12 Battery module 00 disconnecting (module: 104.780V, system max: 0.000V, system min: 0.000V)
02304 2015-10-04 01:44:12 Battery module 01 disconnecting (module: 0.000V, system max: 0.000V, system min: 0.000V)
02305 2015-10-04 01:44:12 Key off
02306 2015-10-04 01:44:12 b'INFO: Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2'
02307 2015-10-04 01:44:12 b'INFO: Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3'
02308 b'DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External'
02309 Power on (onboard charger)
02310 0x00 0x01
02311 0x01 0x01
02312 b'DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Charging mode'
02313 Battery module 00 disconnecting (module: 0.000V, system max: 0.000V, system min: 0.000V)
02314 Battery module 01 disconnecting (module: 0.000V, system max: 0.000V, system min: 0.000V)
02315 Module 00 CAN link up
02316 Battery module 00 registered (module: 104.803V, system max: 0.000V, system min: 0.000V)
02317 2015-10-04 01:48:07 0x00
02318 2015-10-04 01:48:07 Module 00 CAN link up
02319 2015-10-04 01:48:08 Sevcon power on
02320 2015-10-04 01:48:09 Sevcon CAN link up
02321 2015-10-04 01:48:10 b'DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.'
02322 2015-10-04 01:48:10 Battery module 00 connecting (module: 104.739V, system max: 104.737V, system min: 104.737V)
02323 2015-10-04 01:48:10 b'DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed'
02324 2015-10-04 01:48:10 b'INFO: Enabling Calex 720W Charger 0'
02325 2015-10-04 01:48:10 b'INFO: Enabling Calex 1200W Charger 1'
02326 2015-10-04 01:48:10 b'INFO: Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2'
02327 2015-10-04 01:48:10 b'INFO: Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3'
********************
This next section is gobbledegook, but I would hazard a guess that the bike is charging successfully and writing periodic entries to the log:
02331 2015-10-04 01:58:13 0x0a 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02332 2015-10-04 01:58:17 0x1d 0x1c 0x3d 0x00 0x1d 0x9d 0x01 0x00 0xf4 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1a 0x00
02333 2015-10-04 02:08:13 0x0b 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02334 2015-10-04 02:08:17 0x1d 0x1c 0x3f 0x00 0x5e 0x9f 0x01 0x00 0xf7 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1a 0x00
02335 2015-10-04 02:18:13 0x0d 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02336 2015-10-04 02:18:17 0x1d 0x1d 0x40 0x00 0xeb 0xa1 0x01 0x00 0xf7 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1a 0x00
02337 2015-10-04 02:28:13 0x0e 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02338 2015-10-04 02:28:17 0x1d 0x1d 0x42 0x00 0xba 0xa3 0x01 0x00 0xf1 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x19 0x00
02339 2015-10-04 02:38:13 0x0f 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02340 2015-10-04 02:38:17 0x1d 0x1d 0x44 0x00 0x8b 0xa5 0x01 0x00 0xf3 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x19 0x00
02341 2015-10-04 02:48:13 0x10 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02342 2015-10-04 02:48:17 0x1e 0x1d 0x45 0x00 0x8d 0xa7 0x01 0x00 0xf6 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1a 0x00
02343 2015-10-04 02:58:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02344 2015-10-04 02:58:17 0x1e 0x1d 0x47 0x00 0x4d 0xa9 0x01 0x00 0xf5 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1a 0x00
02345 2015-10-04 03:08:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02346 2015-10-04 03:08:17 0x1e 0x1d 0x49 0x00 0x78 0xab 0x01 0x00 0xf7 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1a 0x00
02347 2015-10-04 03:18:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02348 2015-10-04 03:18:17 0x1f 0x1d 0x4a 0x00 0xc0 0xac 0x01 0x00 0xf3 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1a 0x00
02349 2015-10-04 03:28:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02350 2015-10-04 03:28:17 0x20 0x1d 0x4c 0x00 0x09 0xaf 0x01 0x00 0xf7 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1b 0x00
02351 2015-10-04 03:38:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02352 2015-10-04 03:38:17 0x20 0x1d 0x4e 0x00 0x66 0xb1 0x01 0x00 0xf7 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1b 0x00
02353 2015-10-04 03:48:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02354 2015-10-04 03:48:17 0x21 0x1e 0x50 0x00 0x7a 0xb3 0x01 0x00 0xf3 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1c 0x00
02355 2015-10-04 03:58:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02356 2015-10-04 03:58:17 0x21 0x1e 0x51 0x00 0x18 0xb5 0x01 0x00 0xf4 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1c 0x00
02357 2015-10-04 04:08:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02358 2015-10-04 04:08:17 0x22 0x1e 0x53 0x00 0xa5 0xb7 0x01 0x00 0xf6 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1c 0x00
02359 2015-10-04 04:18:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02360 2015-10-04 04:18:17 0x22 0x1e 0x55 0x00 0x0b 0xba 0x01 0x00 0xf3 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1c 0x00
02361 2015-10-04 04:28:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02362 2015-10-04 04:28:17 0x23 0x1e 0x56 0x00 0x34 0xbc 0x01 0x00 0xf6 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1c 0x00
02363 2015-10-04 04:38:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02364 2015-10-04 04:38:17 0x23 0x1f 0x58 0x00 0x6b 0xbe 0x01 0x00 0xf7 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1d 0x00
02365 2015-10-04 04:48:13 0x12 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02366 2015-10-04 04:48:17 0x24 0x1f 0x5a 0x00 0x3d 0xc0 0x01 0x00 0xf7 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1d 0x00
02367 2015-10-04 04:58:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02368 2015-10-04 04:58:17 0x24 0x1f 0x5c 0x00 0xea 0xc2 0x01 0x00 0xf5 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1d 0x00
02369 2015-10-04 05:08:13 0x12 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02370 2015-10-04 05:08:17 0x25 0x1f 0x5d 0x00 0x81 0xc5 0x01 0x00 0xf6 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1d 0x00
02371 2015-10-04 05:18:13 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
02372 2015-10-04 05:18:17 0x26 0x20 0x5f 0x00 0x35 0xc8 0x01 0x00 0xf4 0xff 0x01 0x00 0x01 0x1d 0x00
02373 2015-10-04 05:23:21 0x00 0x31 0xc5 0x45 0x04 0x07 0x07 0x00
02374 2015-10-04 05:23:21 0x00 0x00 0xc5 0x45 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
**********************
Then we get a bunch of entries along these lines:
02375 2015-10-04 05:23:21 b'INFO: Bmvolts: 117312, Cmvolts: 118000, Amps: 0, RPM: 0'
02376 2015-10-04 05:23:23 0x00 0x31 0xc5 0x45 0x04 0x07 0x07 0x00
02377 2015-10-04 05:23:23 0x00 0x00 0xc5 0x45 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x1d
02378 2015-10-04 05:23:23 b'INFO: Bmvolts: 117250, Cmvolts: 117937, Amps: 0, RPM: 0'
02379 2015-10-04 05:23:32 0x00 0x31 0xc5 0x45 0x04 0x07 0x07 0x00
02380 2015-10-04 05:23:32 0x00 0x00 0xc5 0x45 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x21
02381 2015-10-04 05:23:32 b'INFO: Bmvolts: 117312, Cmvolts: 117937, Amps: 0, RPM: 0'
02382 2015-10-04 05:23:37 0x00 0x31 0xc5 0x45 0x04 0x07 0x07 0x00
02383 2015-10-04 05:23:37 0x00 0x00 0xc5 0x45 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x5c
*********
This indicates that charging is complete. Then there's this stuff:
03192 2015-10-04 05:28:11 b'DEBUG: Module State Change Requires Disconnect'
03193 2015-10-04 05:28:11 b'INFO: Disabling Calex 720W Charger 0'
03194 2015-10-04 05:28:11 b'INFO: Disabling Calex 1200W Charger 1'
03195 2015-10-04 05:28:11 b'INFO: Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2'
03196 2015-10-04 05:28:11 b'INFO: Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3'
03197 2015-10-04 05:28:12 Battery module 00 disconnecting (module: 117.132V, system max: 0.000V, system min: 0.000V)
03198 2015-10-04 05:28:12 Battery module 01 disconnecting (module: 0.000V, system max: 0.000V, system min: 0.000V)
03199 2015-10-04 05:28:12 Sevcon power off
03200 2015-10-04 05:28:12 b'DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF'
03201 2015-10-04 05:28:13 b'DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Open'
03202 2015-10-04 05:28:13 b'CAN1 STUFF error. count=1'
03203 2015-10-04 05:28:13 0x12 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
03204 2015-10-04 05:28:15 Sevcon power on
03205 2015-10-04 05:28:15 b'DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.'
03206 2015-10-04 05:28:15 b'INFO: Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2'
03207 2015-10-04 05:28:15 b'INFO: Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3'
03208 2015-10-04 05:28:15 CAN ACK error
03209 2015-10-04 05:28:16 Sevcon CAN link up
03210 2015-10-04 05:28:16 b'DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF'
03211 2015-10-04 05:28:16 b'DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.'
03212 2015-10-04 05:28:17 0x26 0x20 0x61 0x00 0x6e 0xc9 0x01 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x00 0x00 0x1d 0x00
03213 2015-10-04 05:28:18 Battery module 00 connecting (module: 117.275V, system max: 117.265V, system min: 117.265V)
03214 2015-10-04 05:28:18 b'DEBUG: Charge Fault Occured'
03215 2015-10-04 05:28:18 Sevcon power off
03216 2015-10-04 05:28:18 b'DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF'
03217 2015-10-04 05:28:18 Battery module 00 disconnecting (module: 117.272V, system max: 0.000V, system min: 0.000V)
03218 2015-10-04 05:28:18 Battery module 01 disconnecting (module: 0.000V, system max: 0.000V, system min: 0.000V)
03219 2015-10-04 05:28:18 b'DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed'
03220 2015-10-04 05:28:18 b'INFO: Enabling Calex 720W Charger 0'
03221 2015-10-04 05:28:18 b'INFO: Enabling Calex 1200W Charger 1'
03222 2015-10-04 05:28:18 b'DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Open'
03223 2015-10-04 05:28:18 b'INFO: Disabling Calex 720W Charger 0'
03224 2015-10-04 05:28:18 b'INFO: Disabling Calex 1200W Charger 1'
03225 2015-10-04 05:28:20 Sevcon power on
03226 2015-10-04 05:28:20 b'DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.'
03227 2015-10-04 05:28:20 CAN ACK error
03228 2015-10-04 05:28:21 Sevcon CAN link up
03229 2015-10-04 05:28:21 b'DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF'
03230 2015-10-04 05:28:21 0x00 0x31 0xc4 0x45 0x04 0x07 0x07 0x00
03231 2015-10-04 05:28:21 0x00 0x00 0xc4 0x45 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x20
03232 2015-10-04 05:28:21 b'DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.'
03233 2015-10-04 05:28:21 Battery module 00 connecting (module: 117.024V, system max: 117.015V, system min: 117.015V)
03234 2015-10-04 05:28:21 b'DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed'
03235 2015-10-04 05:28:21 b'INFO: Enabling Calex 720W Charger 0'
03236 2015-10-04 05:28:21 b'INFO: Enabling Calex 1200W Charger 1'
03237 2015-10-04 05:28:21 0x00 0x31 0xc5 0x45 0x04 0x07 0x07 0x00
03238 2015-10-04 05:28:21 b'INFO: Bmvolts: 117437, Cmvolts: 118062, Amps: 0, RPM: 0'
03239 2015-10-04 05:28:22 0x00 0x00 0xc5 0x45 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
***********************
It seems to stop charging and then switch the charger back on for some reason, although the battery is fully charged. There's a little section where the bike seems to time warp back to the Seventies:
03572 1978-11-10 20:18:06 b'VINFO: Bmvolts: 117375, Cmvolts: 118062, Amps: 0, RPM: 0'
03573 1978-11-10 20:18:06 0x56 0x00 0x00 0xc5 0x45 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x06
03574 1978-11-10 20:18:06 b'VINFO: Bmvolts: 117312, Cmvolts: 118062, Amps: 0, RPM: 0'
03575 1978-11-10 20:18:06 0x56 0x00 0x31 0xc5 0x45 0x04 0x07 0x07 0x00
03576 1978-11-10 20:18:06 b'VINFO: Bmvolts: 117250, Cmvolts: 118000, Amps: 0, RPM: 0'
03577 1978-11-10 20:18:06 0x56 0x00 0x00 0xc5 0x45 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
03578 1978-11-10 20:18:06 b'VINFO: Bmvolts: 117312, Cmvolts: 118000, Amps: 0, RPM: 0'
03579 1978-11-10 20:18:06 0x56 0x00 0x31 0xc5 0x45 0x04 0x07 0x07 0x00
**************
I've run out of time to look at this now I'm afraid. At the start of the file you can see some riding activity. I also noticed one or two errors like this one: 02201 2015-10-03 22:25:58 b'CAN1 BIT0 error. count=1'
I don't know whether they are benign or not.
I have a suspicion that either the bike or the app isn't managing to extract the log files properly. That applies to my bike & app too. It's worth having another go at extracting the two logs that I mentioned before when you get chance.
I hope that is of some use at least. My approach would be to liaise with Zero and arrange to get your firmware updated. That might just resolve the issue if you're lucky. If not, then it might help indicate that there's a hardware fault somewhere.
-
Thanks. I'll see what they say about this and proceed from there. How does a remote firmware update work?
-
My pleasure. You have to take it to a dealer and I think they use a dongle or USB stick. It's not a remote thing like with Tesla's I'm afraid.
-
If they can send me the thumb drive I can do it - I can follow instructions. If they have a Bluetooth shop device that has to be near the bike, then I'm about as screwed as if they had to replace an actual part.
-
I think it might be one of those situations where they insist that a technician does it. You know when they have 'secret' codes to unlock a technician interface? They don't like sharing stuff like that because they don't want people fiddling and causing other problems. That's my guess, but it's worth asking. If I recall, are you in New York state? How far is your nearest dealer? It's warranty work, so I would expect they'll pick the bike up and give you a courtesy bike for the duration.
I'd be inclined to get it to a dealer regardless. There's a chance that they will upgrade the firmware and find there's still a problem. Best to leave it to them, in my opinion. It will also give you an opportunity to get to know your dealer and get a feel for their service levels. If you're not happy with them, have a moan about here and it might just make a difference. If nothing else, you'll get tea and sympathy. Well, maybe not the tea... ;-)
-
I think I posted this somewhere, but the nearest dealer is about 90 miles away, if I remember correctly. Barely in range of the bike in warm weather, not in range now, even if I could survive the ride in the cold. I doubt very much they'd pick the bike up, especially as I had asked them for a quote before buying elsewhere. They quoted $17k for an S with the larger pack. I asked for a quote on an S with the small pack and Charge Tank, and they didn't respond. If it has to be brought to a dealer, I'd have to either rent a van equipped for hauling motorcycles, or pay a local bike hauler to take it both ways. None of those prospects look good to me...
I just checked again, and they are 127 miles away, not 90. That *might* actually help me, I suppose, as they are more clearly not in range.
-
Maybe if you do a charging stop under the way, It isn't ideal but there should be a few things that can keep you busy for 2-3 hours.
-
Worth asking them and if they say no, then ask them why Streetbike in the UK would do exactly that and it would be their pleasure!
-
Worth asking them and if they say no, then ask them why Streetbike in the UK would do exactly that and it would be their pleasure!
Zero's probably-automated email to me said that they had informed the dealer I bought the bike from (3000 miles away) of the issue, so I'm going to wait until I'm actually in a conversation with Zero to start suggesting solutions. I really don't want to haul the bike 240 miles if I have any other choice.
-
Just in case the original dealer gets in touch, I'd ask them why they didn't update the firmware prior to shipping the bike out to you. I'd also be inclined to call your 'local' dealer and explain the situation and ask them if they're willing to help you out. The answer to that question should be: "Of course, sir. We are a Zero dealer, have qualified technicians and are here to help and service any warranty claims. When would you like us to pick the bike up and do you require a courtesy bike for the duration?"
Please keep us posted leftie.
-
The dealer will bill Zero for the warranty work so they shouldn't care if you bought the bike from them or another dealer.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
-
I'm not actually worried that the dealer 120 miles away will refuse to work on the bike under warranty. I am just certain that they won't pick it up here and then then return it, or even just one of those.
-
I'm now in contact with the service department in California. (Zero hasn't responded beyond the apparent auto-response I get immediately whenever I contact them.) Here is what the Tech is saying about the 0020 and 0028 errors:
"I’m not sure how much we can do remotely. Usually how we go about checking isolation involves connecting to the BMS, testing isolation, and then disconnecting components until you find the one that triggers the isolation issue.
We won’t be able to do this remotely.
I recommend the customer try pressing the reset button on the front of his monolith; sometimes resetting the BMS can resolve hiccups that get encountered but not cleared.
If that doesn’t solve the problem, then he will need to bring it in for further diagnosis."
Ok, so where is the reset button on the "monolith," which I assume is a cluster of components?
-
They call the battery packs "monolith". I've seen some threads here with a description where the reset button is. As MostlyBonkers said though, it could also be firmware problem and updating the firmware might be an easy first step to try.
-
They call the battery packs "monolith". I've seen some threads here with a description where the reset button is. As MostlyBonkers said though, it could also be firmware problem and updating the firmware might be an easy first step to try.
No, pushing that button would be the "easy first step" and updating the firmware the "currently impossible step" I'm afraid. Is there maybe a second rubber plug in front of the pack housing for the button, or can it be reached through the same one that shows the BMS lights? This isn't an urgent question - it's cold here right now - but I need a detailed, definitive answer.
-
Looking at photos of the bike, I see two big rubber plugs, one right below the other, on the front of the <cue eery music> monolith. I'm hoping that one is the BMS light access port and the other is the reset button access port. Hopefully pressing that button won't cause the local skunks to start using tools...
-
This post should help:
help with charging not functioning '15 SR
You can try the BMS reset without taking anything apart.
On the front of the battery pack there are two round rubber seals, beneath one is the LED display, the other - two small buttons. Press the two buttons simultaneously for a couple of seconds, wait for another 10 seconds or so (you should hear a click and notice the dash display reset), then try plugging in again.
http://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4804.msg32577#msg32577
-
Thanks, MB! I've looked at the several related threads, and will try the reset on Saturday, unless plans for tomorrow evening fall through. Fingers crossed for me, please!!!
-
No probs and good luck!
-
One last pre-reboot question: is it done with the bike On or Off? The Tech at the dealer isn't sure.
-
Bike off
The bms is always on
take out both plugs and you will see the active LED's working
When you press both buttons if I remember correctly, the lights will all flash at once and then I believe you can let go of the buttons and the BMS will reset and reboot itself.
-
Thanks. The tech said that one button is actually for waking the bike up from "hibernation" but that I can press both, which I'll do. I figured it almost had to be "Off" just for component safety, but thought I'd check.
-
I just got back from the garage. So much for errors that clear themselves...
The rubber plugs were easy to remove with just my fingernails, but when I opened them I got an unpleasant surprise: the inside was just about completely filled with clear (dielectric, I hope!) grease. I had to spend 10 minutes cleaning it off the white connector, BMS lights and buttons before I could even try the reset. None of the BMS lights were lit, BTW. When I did try pushing both buttons at once - not an easy task for someone with normal-sized fingers - I first got a reset with no click. The lights all came on, including the red error light, flashing cheerfully away like a little satanic Imp in my monolith. I tried it again, doing my very best to hold both buttons all the way down, and this time I believe I did hear a faint Click. The result, though, was the same. The dash is now showing the following codes:
0020: BMS Low Isolation
0028: BMS Isolation Fault
0044: Kill Switch Disable
0045 Kickstand Switch Disable
0051: BMS Self Test Warning
I'm hoping that the 51 code just means the buttons were pushed? In any case, the BMS Isolation codes didn't clear.
Can I still ride this bike if I keep it above 40% charge? Or is there a danger it will die on me and strand me? I'll send the codes to the dealer's Tech and I'm sure they will tell me "You'll have to bring the bike in." They are 3000 miles away, and the nearest Zero dealer to me is 120 miles away...
-
If I were you, I'd get it back to that dealer Leftie. Just ring them up, list the error codes, wait for them to say that the bike needs to come in and ask them when they can pick it up. If they say they can't, then tell them you know of other dealers that do and say that you'll take it up with Zero. Ring Zero and explain the story and see what happens.
In the meantime, if you have an iPhone, make sure the zero app has been updated and see if you can pull the logs from the bike. Send them to zero and post them here.
That would be my approach. I had to live without my bike for close to two weeks after only having it for eleven days. It's a pain in the neck, but I feel it's going to be the only way of sorting it. Getting early glitches ironed out seems to be part of owning a Zero for some. You're not alone.
Best of luck.
-
It won't be easy to arrange transport 240 miles round trip. It also won't be cheap, and I'll be utterly amazed if the "local" dealer or Zero are willing to pay. If this keeps up, Zero should just come out and tell people "Don't buy a Zero if there isn't a Zero dealer nearby." To which I would add "Don't buy *any* electric motorcycle if you can't afford to write it off from the start."
-
I forgot where you are located and if you got access to a vehicle with a hitch to tow a small motorcycle trailer. But if you are up to it, UHaul rents their smallest motorcycle trailer for something like $20 a day. Most passenger cars that are properly equipped for towing can handle it with a Zero on it. It should come to something under 1,000 lb, which is like 4 well-fed adults in some parts of the world. Just take it slow if in a small vehicle. Or rent an SUV or a truck to either tow or load it in. The trailers are very easy to load a bike on, unlike a pick-up truck or vans that are higher.
I'd be upset with the original dealer, as I'm pretty sure the error was there when they sold it to you and they just never bothered to check. It was on your first ride that the flickering light appeared, very unlikely it just happened there on a demo bike. Unless something happened to it en-route to you. The original dealer, being so far out, I don't know what they would be able/willing to do... I feel you should work with your closest dealer - Zero should reimburse them/you for your towing or the pick-up by the dealer. That's a "new" bike that by what you say it seems was delivered to you like that or developed the issue pretty much immediately ...
Did someone already suggest to call Hollywood Electrics for a consultation? Maybe they can remotely diagnose and update your firmware as a warranty service? No travel, right?
-
I can't personally travel, no. I can tow, given a vehicle with a hitch, but it might make more sense for me to rent a small van, given the lack of a tow vehicle. Or hire a local motorcycle transport service, and see if I can get at least half the fee back from Zero or the dealer.
I have been wondering about how fast that error popped up, but if it occurred in the past, how would they (the dealership) clear it without fixing the defect, except by the BMS reset? As for transport, I'm also less than trusting, but the odometer reading given by the dealer is the one it arrived showing. The bike was quite dirty for being in an enclosed trailer, but the hauler struck me as someone who runs perpetually late, with no time for joyrides...
-
Has the dealer told you they won't pick the bike up leftie? I know I keep saying this, but Streetbike are 120 miles from my house and they picked my bike up and delivered a courtesy bike too. When they dotted the bike back they thanked me for my patience.
Arguably, the costs of transport are cheaper in the states; cheaper vehicles, cheaper fuel. We're also led to believe that Americans have a culture of great customer service.
I think you've got a perfect case for getting your local dealership to take care of you. No quibbles, no hassle. All it should take is a phone call to the dealer's service department.
Alternatively, just ring the original dealer, tell them they delivered a bike that was dead on arrival and ask for your money back.
I hate the fact that this has happened to you Leftie. You seem like a nice guy who could do with a break.
-
The problem is that the bike wasn't actually DOA. It booted up with no errors, and was ok until about 45 minutes into my first ride. I haven't asked anyone to pick the bike up, yet. Remember, I only found out today (Sunday) that the errors won't clear with a BMS reset. I'll be in contact with the dealership this week, for sure. I think, though, that the sales rep's response to my first email about the faults is telling. He told me he was glad that the bike had performed perfectly on my first ride. ;-(
-
Sales people are often not too bright and they're programmed to look on the bright side of everything. He probably just read that you had ridden the bike and judged that to be a success. He probably didn't even read the email properly.
So not DOA, strictly speaking, but it failed on the first ride. It's more or less the same thing.
I sense a reluctance to make the call asking for the bike to be picked up and a proper level of customer service to be given. Take no prisoners! ;-)
-
"I sense a reluctance to make the call asking for the bike to be picked up and a proper level of customer service to be given. Take no prisoners! ;-)"
I'm not the Meek & Mild guy you think. It's just that I've got far too much experience with this kind of situation, and I'm going to be as reasonable as I can, at least in the beginning. That doesn't mean rolling over for the dealer or for Zero, though - it means not alienating anyone on the first call. If necessary, at some point I'll let them know that I have a significant Web presence, and that I can write well and convincingly. If they monitor these forums, they will already know that. No one wants an articulate writer to be arguing the case *against* their product.
-
Here is the reply from the Tech at the Zero dealer in California. I asked if the bike was thoroughly checked before shipment, as I had requested.
"Hi-
I would take the vehicle to the nearest Zero dealer. The vehicles are assembled by Zero , we do small things to them such as install T signals, mirrors, plate frames, air in tires check belt tension , we don't remove or install the batteries. We do check for active faults and safety items. I know it can be disappointing to have problems with a new vehicle, I would definitely get the vehicle to a dealer. I don't believe there is much we can do remotely at this point. "
-
So, does anyone here understand the "BMS Isolation" fault codes enough to render an opinion on taking another ride or two before finding a way to get the bike back to a Zero dealer - possibly forever, if I can actually arrange a buy-back by Zero? The reference on YouTube suggests it's actually a short circuit involving the motor, in which case I wouldn't want to risk it...
-
Get Zero to tell you if it is dangerous to ride or charge. I don't think it is an actual "short circuit" with the motor - you won't be riding anywhere if it was (or if some of the windings were shorted, you'd be seeing reduced power).
I searched several other threads for Zeros with BMS isolation faults. Lots of them! Most got the warning after washing or wet days. General advice given there - ride them in dry weather till the fault codes clears. If it was mine, and if it was charging OK, I'd ride it about in good weather for a couple of hundred miles, possibly store it in an air-conditioned dry room (with a dehumidifier and a fan blasting at it) between rides, and see if the error clears. Is it safe to do so? Is your problem the same as those others are reporting with the same trouble codes? No idea. Trouble codes can be misleading of the actual cause...
When it comes to computers and electronics, most car and motorcycle dealers are notoriously bad in dealing with such issues, unfortunately.
-
Thanks for the reply. I was actually thinking of trying to make sure the monolith was dry inside, using a hair dryer, fan, dry weather, etc. Is there an easy easy to remove the front covers for a quick dry with a hairdryer?
I swear, though, I used very little water, and the "pressure" my hand-pumped sprayer provides is pathetically low. A light rain would dump much more water on the bike...
EDIT: What about riding it on a nice dry day like today, with the front BMS access plugs left off?
-
If there is a real problem where your bike isn't working, I want to help, but I can't believe I just scanned 6 pages and can't figure out what actual problem we are trying to solve. This thread starts about complaining about charging before you even got your bike Leftie, now it has taken all sorts of tangents to where I can't figure out what the problem is besides the error codes which I have seen myself after a hard rain sometimes and usually go away rather soon. I never made a big deal about it because the bike worked fine. Your bms isolation might clear over time when the bike drys. Don't spray it with any more water! I think I warned you about this in another thread when you were taking about cleaning it before you ever rode it.
Just please don't create problems or drama where none exist, ok? The Zero is a great bike and it looks like you've been riding motorcycles for many years and will appreciate the Zero as much as anyone. I recommend this sometimes to those types of people that remind me of George from Seinfeld that would complain about the sky being too blue and it ruining their day, and that's to take a break from posting for a while until you can sort of take a few deep breaths and get a few hundred miles of riding under your belt. A better way of looking at it is instead of typing next time you feel like the world is against you, just go for a motorcycle ride instead, ok? Call it throttle therapy if you want. It works.
I see also you've been using electric vehicles for 13 years, that's 6 years more than me, and I am very impressed by this! Although if this is your first issue with an electric vehicle ever, I would be very surprised. But if so you have been very lucky! :)
-
Terry, you may want to reread the thread. I didn't "complain about charging" for starters. I asked if it was ok to use a GFCI and surge protector for charging, for which I was ridiculed by several people. Next, I had no plans to wash the bike in February, but it arrived very dirty, especially the seat, bars and grips. I washed it using a very low-pressure hand-pumped garden sprayer, avoiding the motor and other major electrical components. Note that Zero suggests, in the manual, washing the bikes with a "garden hose."
As for the codes being no big deal, well I'm glad to hear that! I'd be even more glad if you weren't the only one calling me a drama queen for worrying about them. We'll see if they clear.
-
It seems to me that there are two basic ways of looking at this forum. For myself as well as some others (apparently Terry is included), we see it as a place for people to share their discoveries, difficulties and answer each others' technical questions, which is sometimes very helpful, since electric motorcycles are still a fairly new phenomenon.
It sometimes does seem to me (without pointing any fingers) that some people see it more as a social medium like any of the dozens around. I don't have any problem with that, but I check this list several times a day, and I have to admit that many of the posts can be pretty....shall we just say....chatty instead of informative. Perhaps a MyFaceSpace page would be more appropriate for that sort of thing?
I don't want to stifle anybody's enthusiasm, or silence anybody if they've got something to add to the conversation. I'd just prefer that this forum stay more technical and less social.
YMMV.
-
For anyone who interested there is a Facebook page for Zero Motorcycles owners.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I'm not sure if I fall into the "technical help issues" or "chatty" category, but I'm trying for the former.
I took the bike out for a ride, with fingers crossed. By about 9 miles out the 028 code was gone from the dash, leaving the 020 and 051 codes. The 020 became occasional instead of constant, so I stopped, let the bike sit a few minutes, and reset the BMS again. No flashing red BMS light, and after a minute of riding the dash also stopped showing errors. Greatly relieved, I rode another 25 miles or so. When I got home I let the bike sit for 15 minutes, plugged it in to charge...and got the 020 and 028 errs, now joined by 029, which is "BMS Isolation Danger". I unplugged the bike and left it in the garage.
-
To be fair to Leftie, he was asking for help right from the start. It's a topic that has evolved, just like the Diginow one.
Sometimes people need a bit more than just technical details. A bit of moral support or advice about how to work with dealers can also help resolve issues.
Please don't get too grumpy with leftie, Terry. I'm sure he appreciates your help.