ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Le Z Turbo on February 02, 2016, 11:47:17 PM
-
Hi everyone,
something to think about when having an "exotic" bike is spare parts in case of accident.
I had an accident exactly one year ago. While overtaking a line of stopped car one of then suddenly turn left to enter her home, crossing a do not cross lane and without blinkers of course.... The driver simply said "I didn't hear you coming !" Grrrrrr.......
I had just a cut finger end due to the brake lever (I brake with only 2 fingers, the two other ones are below the brake lever and get crunched during the accident). My finger has been repaired long ago and is fully functional !
But my Zero..... It's a 2013 Zero DS and I'm living in France where Zero is distributed. But my shop (a scooter and motocycle shop which don't make Zero anymore due to t his kind of problem) has tremendous difficulty to get the parts. The insurance is paying, no problem with that. And getting a brand new Zero is easy here in France, but a fork, a frame,.....
So futur owner be aware if you live outside the US. Will you be able to get parts ? Not just the small ones but the also the big accident related ones !
It could be difficult to be already ridding the futur. I lost 1 year to sell my bike as second hand and had to buy another bike for my trip to work. I took something louder: a Ducati Hypermotard with full racing exhaust and no db killer.
Have a safe ride !
Laurent
-
That is absurd. There's NO REASON they couldn't send those parts in a month or two at most
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I know ! The first order for parts (4500€ or 4500$ it's the same) was via the main French shop in Paris. And parts never came and my dealer (500 kms from Paris) was refund. But you could imagine this first delay ! Now my dealer want to order directly from Zero and has to create a new dealer account and so one which take..... so much time ! And in the meantime the Zero commercial director for France changed so everything arrange with the first one vanished.....
Ordering a new frame is no piece of cake has there is a new frame number or you have to renumber the new frame with old number. It's on the official owner paper.
Hope something get the repair working soon !
Laurent
-
And it's a pity cause I really LOVE this bike ! Would like so much to have a 2016 DSR but I'm a little cold now !!!
-
I feel for you Laurent. There's also the sad tale of Peter who had a hard time with Zero. I think that's where dealers have such a vital part to play. They are the ones that will benefit from warranty work and accidents, so you should be able to rely on them to sort everything out for you.
I hope you don't mind me asking, but how fast were you going when the car pulled out on you? It's a difficult one to judge. Anything more than walking or jogging pace and you've got no chance, I reckon. The driver should have looked of course. They can't rely on sound, that's just rubbish - it could have been a cyclist.
-
I was round about 40 km/h and then I applied full brake before contact. The front of the bike is crunched but the battery is intact. It has been recharged several time for the last year.....
I had the same sort of crash with the 3 wheeled scooter you see on my avatar. The front is so big that I had nothing physically. The opponent car was badly damaged ! My scooter was unrepairable this time
I always ride with helmet (mandatory here) and motorcycle gloves. On my different accidents I had leather jacket with elbow, shoulder and back protection (Dainese) and a Padded kevlar trousers (looking like a Jean, Dainese also). All of these realy helped. During summer I sometime go low on protection keeping helmet and gloves, which may not be "wise". I'm repairing an old BMW C1 200cc for summer time !!! And also rainy day
Laurent
-
Perhaps you could convince the insurance company to write it off after one year.
-
Zero Corporation, I'd love to hear what is being done to get Le Z Turbo's ride back on the road.
Le Z Turbo - What's your take on Zero (company). For the moment, it sounds as if your still hopeful.
I'm beginning to wonder about Zero. They seem to be losing one customer at a time. Can they afford that? Can we afford that?
I'm with you on this - "... but I'm a little cold now !!! “
Why? My 14 SR has been in repair now for 5 months at Contra Costa Powersports (San Francisco Bay Area). This dealership is an approved Zero dealership.
My crash was highlighted on this forum as "It's Dangerous out there" back in September 2015.
If my 14 SR ever gets completed, I'll post the repair process details on this forum. The details are fascinating.
It's a nice product -but- if repairs take forever -or- not-at-all -or- ..... What good are they. If the dealer is an issue, Zero needs to lean heavily on them.
I really like this forum. It's unfiltered, sometimes just plain raw.
Those that contribute, Their knowledge and ideas are exceptional.
Peter's experience - I found it on the 2012 and Older forum titled "Anyone want a free 2012XU? I've given up"
Le Z Turbo, please post when new details surface.
One last time - I'm beginning to wonder about Zero. They seem to be losing one customer at a time. Can they afford that? Can we afford that?
-
Perhaps you could convince the insurance company to write it off after one year.
Or to have a rental bike until it is over so you're still mobile on two wheels.
-
5 months !!! And you are living near the FACTORY !!! That's so huge !!!
Before my accident I had troubles with leaking fork, leaking rear shock, untrue wheels, engine cutting..... Since my accident I have nothing to tell really (!) as my dealer simply has no part at all for replacement !!!
No rented bike for me in the meantime. I bought another "dream" one with good service this time !!!
Laurent
-
Its weird.
Last year the forks started leaking on my 2013 Zero-S, they were replaced by Zero in under a week.
Even the motor for my 2012 when that went funky only took a couple of weeks.
Given some dealers CAN get the parts in a timely manner from Zero, I'd suspect the problem may not be at Zeros end.
-
When buying through a dealer, I think it's a good idea to check that they are willing to provide a courtesy bike whenever your bike needs servicing or fixing. Not only does it keep you on two wheels, but it gives the dealer some motivation to get your bike back on the road quickly.
From the dealer's point of view, they get happy customers and an opportunity to give them an extended test ride on a bike that they may well want to buy, if they like it.
Justin, myself and others here in the UK are blessed to have a dealership of such high calibre as Streetbike. If a bunch of Brummies can do it from over 5,000 miles away, then others have no excuse! [emoji6]
-
Your dealer should have factored in the cost of shipping your bike back to Zero and that should have totaled the bike. They don't really know what kind of damage it did to the batteries or connections. I wouldn't ride it or sell it to someone else if the damage was anything more than cosmetic. A good dealer should have your interests in mind and figure you'd buy a new bike with them with your insurance money but it sounds like they wanted the repair money instead. Sue the dealer and driver since they are closest and go from there. Zero covered a pretty major repair cost for me so my thoughts are it's the dealer.
-
And getting a brand new Zero is easy here in France, but a fork, a frame,.....
Hold on, you're trying to replace the frame? I'm very sorry for your accident, and I hope you've healed up well, but I strongly disagree with what you're doing. There are many riders on here with more experience than I, but the conventional wisdom is that if the frame is damaged, the bike is totaled.
I wouldn't ask that of a normal dealership, let alone one that is no longer associated with the brand. You're asking people who might not be qualified anymore to completely disassemble what remains of your bike, rebuild the damaged fork assembly and reassemble everything on a new frame with no wires crossed whatsoever. You should ask them how many times they've done this extensive a rebuild before, both gas and electric.
And that's assuming Zero takes stock in extra frames. Zero doesn't sell that many bikes, a few thousand a year at most. If most riders consider a damaged frame to be totaled, then I wouldn't expect Zero to carry that many extra frames in its inventory.
-
And getting a brand new Zero is easy here in France, but a fork, a frame,.....
Hold on, you're trying to replace the frame? I'm very sorry for your accident, and I hope you've healed up well, but I strongly disagree with what you're doing. There are many riders on here with more experience than I, but the conventional wisdom is that if the frame is damaged, the bike is totaled.
I wouldn't ask that of a normal dealership, let alone one that is no longer associated with the brand. You're asking people who might not be qualified anymore to completely disassemble what remains of your bike, rebuild the damaged fork assembly and reassemble everything on a new frame with no wires crossed whatsoever. You should ask them how many times they've done this extensive a rebuild before, both gas and electric.
And that's assuming Zero takes stock in extra frames. Zero doesn't sell that many bikes, a few thousand a year at most. If most riders consider a damaged frame to be totaled, then I wouldn't expect Zero to carry that many extra frames in its inventory.
While its true that in the USA the frame is considered to be the bike and a damaged frame means its totaled... The rest of the world doesnt have the same reliance on VIN numbers.
Even Honda will sell you a replacement frame, but there is a good bit of paperwork involved in order to stop theft.
-
You've trashed the frame, you've trashed the bike.
Any force enough to twist the frame is enough force to knock other parts of the bike out.
I'd not touch any re-framed bike with a barge pole.
I like living.
-
Unfortunatly my insurrance doesn't take it that way. The cost of repairing the bike is lower that the bike value (it was one year ago, now its value is decreasing....). The battery is intact. Should the battery be damaged that would have been another story....
Laurent
-
Mmm...it looks like we have different approaches on this one...
In Europe we replace frames on bikes, cars, etc...and also -if possible- repair them (as long as you have technical guarantees). These big repairs when an insurance company is involved have to be agreed by an expert engineer otherwise is determined by the dealer's engineers.
These guys have also to determine what other parts are damaged, and if they need to be replaced.
If the repairs costs are above the current bike value, then the bike/vehicle is considered "totaled", and the insurance company would make a "current value reimbursement" to the owner
(I have owned +10 bikes so far, and one of them had a chassis repair because of an accident and worked perfectly afterwards) I'm still alive ;)
It is also true that on Very high performance bikes (which is not the case with a Zero bike) the engineers will look at the chassis with a microscope -you know what I mean- , and discard repair very easily...
The above statement has nothing to do with Zero not supplying the parts, which is really strange (I wonder why)
-
The battery is intact. Should the battery be damaged that would have been another story....
Laurent
How do you know the battery is intact. You said it recharges, but can you discharge it, like making it spin the rear wheel? Is the gauge still operational, and if so, are there no errors?
-
Unfortunatly my insurrance doesn't take it that way. The cost of repairing the bike is lower that the bike value (it was one year ago, now its value is decreasing....). The battery is intact. Should the battery be damaged that would have been another story....
Laurent
Insurance companies don't run the risk of a Lithium Ion battery fire between their legs, you do. Zero would not trust a dealer to rebuild a bike. Mine needed the battery replaced and they shipped it across the country to do it their selves. If you can't get the repairs done there contact Zero and tell them to send you a cost for them shipping it to CA USA and doing all the repairs based on pictures and details you send them show that to your insurance and they should total the bike. If not SUE SUE SUE. Because you just can't kick people's asses like you used to. Good luck
-
Man, that insurance company is crazy! Most dealers are not skilled enough with electrics to transpose all the parts to a new frame. If they want to try fine, but let them give you the value of the bike at the time of the accident and give them the bike and they can sell it if they can get someone to perform the work safely. Take the money and put it towards a 2016 DSR or something.
One day every dealer will have the skill to understand electric cars, motorcycles or anything. But it's not there yet. If the insurance company doesn't understand that, perhaps a letter from a lawyer saying you intend to sue them for unreasonable expectations and delay will make them just wish to settle with you vs going to court. It may be cold now, but in a month or two I'd love to hear how you got most of the cost of a DSR covered and were able to upgrade. That would be the ideal situation if you could make it happen. So sorry to hear this. I know a buddy, he's on this forum Farfle (Jackson) and he got rear ended on his Zero DS about 2 months ago or maybe less. The insurance already got him a new 2016 DSR. Try to do the same if you can.
-
I generally look for salvage title vehicles ( which is what you will most likely end up with if you get a new frame )
when purchasing a vehicle. If purchased as is, or, if work has been done properly, the value can be tremendous.
On an alternative fuel vehicle, there is so much more to deal with that most aren't familiar with ( as Terry Mentioned ).
Once a vehicle ends up with anything other than a CLEAN title, the manufacturers will generally cancel any possible
warranty on the vehicle, and, you will be on your own if any issues occur. You will also have difficulty getting a loan,
or, full coverage insurance. I would request some kind of guarantee from insurance company that THEY will cover
any issues, should they occur if done the way that they wish.
-
Actually, these Zeros seem to me to be pretty simple to work on. No gas lines, no exhaust, no ABS, no fairings... The mechanics are standard motorcycle stuff. As long as one takes photos during disassembly, reassembly should be a breeze. Having a factory manual for the torque and electrics re-connection procedures is all that's needed beyond that (for example, there may be the need for an in-rush current limiter, a simple incandescent light bulb would do it, for when the battery is reconnected to the motor controller).
A frame can be damaged in a way that nothing else is seriously wrong - it all depends on how the hit took place. Or there could be hidden damage. But waiting a year is ridiculous ...
-
I agree that as far as R&R goes, not that bad, but, with Zero unwilling to sell a service manual,
you have to hope that nothing internal goes wrong. The trained dealers are having problems
with Zero backing, how are we poor lay people supposed to fare any better.
-
Actually, these Zeros seem to me to be pretty simple to work on. No gas lines, no exhaust, no ABS, no fairings... The mechanics are standard motorcycle stuff. As long as one takes photos during disassembly, reassembly should be a breeze. Having a factory manual for the torque and electrics re-connection procedures is all that's needed beyond that (for example, there may be the need for an in-rush current limiter, a simple incandescent light bulb would do it, for when the battery is reconnected to the motor controller).
A frame can be damaged in a way that nothing else is seriously wrong - it all depends on how the hit took place. Or there could be hidden damage. But waiting a year is ridiculous ...
There are some complications however, for example electrical signal isolation. I would have to wonder if disturbing the frame, or reframing the bike meant you'd need to bear in mind that the isolation resistance to components such as the BMS and the MBB might change.
-
The guy who bought my 2014 SR laid it down hard a week later. Handlebar, foot pegs, front brake lever, tank and the list goes on. All was repaired and replaced the NEXT day. It's all about the dealer.
-
Some news about my crashed bike.
I have been to the shop this morning and the dealer has several phone calls from Zero France. It seems that someone is reading the forum ! And I THANK him for his action !
Also I THANK the reader who say I shoudn't change the frame or I will deal with severe electrical problems. We've been around the bike with the dealer and decided not to change it but just have a paint on the lateral scratched part without disassembly. The frame is not bent, only the fork is. But it has a lateral scratch from the fall.
Well I will see if we could now get the parts a little faster than... a year !!!
Have a good (and safe ridding !) weekend
Laurent
-
My 2015 Zero SR got smacked in a parking lot on February 5. The driver tried to take off, but witnesses ran her down and made her stop. I didn't see it happen.
The driver was a little old lady who was insured, and I already have the check for the repairs. It's still sitting at the Zero dealership though. It's been about 25 days, so that's almost an entire month of payment and insurance for a bike I can't ride. I hope it doesn't take too much longer.
-
I have been to the shop yerstaday and....... NO PARTS !!!
My dealer has to go through a website that didn't have all the part, is contacting the french-europe representative and still.... nothing !
I now I can see on another post that my DS 2013 should have a battery swap under warranty ? Ha ha ha, may be I'm gonna have the battery before the fork, fender and lateral panels !!! Yes that that kind of part I need, as simple as front fork complete with triple clamps, front fender, lateral panels, rear brake pedal..... nothing really exotic isn't it ?
To be followed.......
Think twice or 10 times before buying here in Europe
Laurent
-
I understand your frustration Turbo but you are in Europe correct? It might be better to make the argument "you should take more consideration if you are buying a zero out of the states," would it not?
I don't know how to the laws work over there but could you make a case to your insurance provider to "total" the bike since you cannot get replacement parts for it? It seems it would be easier to simply get a whole new bike.
Sorry you are having troubles ... Has the dealer concerned swapping parts off another 2013 sitting in inventory (assuming they even have ones that old)
Which parts can you not acquire from the dealer supply webpage? Maybe people in the community can help track down and send you parts ;)
-
Hi Burton,
I've made the "in Europe" modification.
I have contacted the insurrance but they just rely on the fact that the motorcycle is economically repairable. And here in France don't even think about a lawsuit for that kind of small thing !!!
No 2013 in stock for part swap unfortunatly
I don't remember exactly which parts were not on the website but my dealer received ZERO part, even the ones he could order.
Have a safe ride
Laurent
-
Le Z Turbo my advice is start a new thread, Zero uninsurable in Europe (even if lightly damaged). Link it to this thread.
Does your insurance company record your calls? If so ( I make sure they do before speaking to them) Ask your insurance company for all emails letters and calls on audio CD and ask for transcripts-text documents.
In Britain is called a "Subject access request" under data protection act.
We have to pay £10 for the info and they have 40 working days to supply it. I assume in France is simillar. Then go to ombudsman or French equivelent (google) with you details and after 3-6 months you get paid out big money including if you ask for it costs for replacement mortorcycle you should have been provided which you were denied through no fault on your part. The last bit is important as it can be more than the cost to repair. Done it 3 times successfully here. Insurance will expect you to give up easily. Don't it pays very well if you are the last on the pile to deal with. :D
Hope that helps.
Bon voyage.
Any trouble let me know and I will buy collect and fix your bike if it is possible. I do that with aeroplanes so no trouble to me ;)
-
To keep you posted......
After 1 year and a half my bike is still not repaired !!!
The fork was changed and we agree on just a paint job on the frame because changing the frame was first a heavy uncommon work (many electrical wires with which my dealer is unfamiliar) and second because it will mean sending back the frame to the US to have the same frame number. I'm in France
But..... after installing the new fork the front wheel was too rearward meaning the frame is bent and need replacement..... OH DEAR !
My dealer is no Zero dealer anymore, the dealer where I bought my Zero either and no one wants to touch the electrical part of the bike !
There's gonna be a European Zero reunion next week where I hope they will discuss my case. My bike has to be sent back to Holland for the battery warranty replacement.
Hope a solution will come out of this. I'm ridding another petrol bike in the meantime and i'd like to go back to electric....
Have a good week-end !
Laurent
-
Surely the bent frame and the time taken mean it must be a write off? Here on the UK it would be, and the insurance company will often let you buy the bike fit a fraction of its cost. Considering the fact that the undamaged batteries are a large part of the bike's value this could work out a good deal.
I'd push for getting it written off if you can.