ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Doug S on October 23, 2015, 04:11:11 AM
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I've ordered one of DigiNow's super chargers for my 2014 SR, and I realize I have no idea how the public charging stations work. I know a lot of the systems have membership cards; do I need to have one to charge at all or does it just give me a lower price or something? In general, can I just roll up to one, insert my credit card, hook up, and get some juice? That's my preferred solution since the majority of the time I'll still be charging at home.
If I have to be a member, which one is the best to join? (If it matters, I'm in the San Diego area.) I don't want to join more groups than necessary, but I don't want to be tied to only one option either if that's going to be a problem.
I also see a lot of private residences shown on PlugShare; I assume these owners are at least somewhat amenable to allowing other people to use their hookup or they wouldn't list themselves on PlugShare. Do people generally charge a reasonable rate for using their home hookups? What's the story there? I might want to consider paying it forward a bit myself.
Funny, I've owned an EV for close to two years now and I've never charged anyplace except my home or a friend's home, at the shop while the bike is being worked on, or at work.
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Regarding getting a network card, you probably want to get a Chargepoint card, and possibly a Blink card. (Although my experience with Blink is bad and I stay away from them whenever possible.) If there are chargers by a specific brand in your area (Semacharge, EVGo, etc.) then get one of those too, but Chargepoint are by far the most abundant.
People who list their home on Plugshare are friendly and basically, just call ahead to make sure they are home. I have charged at several private residences and nobody has charged me anything, we just chat for a while. I'm happy to reimburse them for the electricity, but they are generally excited to chat with an EV owner, especially one who rides a motorcycle.
Here is one of my residential charging experiences from my trip last summer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXHNxrROfYc&list=PLbWCCYJCsilotFiverwYK4GeKno-KAyAt&index=2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXHNxrROfYc&list=PLbWCCYJCsilotFiverwYK4GeKno-KAyAt&index=2)
Here is another residence where I charged up and just chatted with the guy for about an hour. (look at 4:30)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwJRaxn0OXY&list=PLbWCCYJCsilotFiverwYK4GeKno-KAyAt&index=19 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwJRaxn0OXY&list=PLbWCCYJCsilotFiverwYK4GeKno-KAyAt&index=19)
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Most charging stations work similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMl4c_Ydb4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMl4c_Ydb4)
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At 7:00 minutes in this video I discuss the various cards and networks of charging stations. Basically, Chargepoint is the way to go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDRisqyO5wM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDRisqyO5wM)
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As with most things, it probably depends upon where you live. Here in Las Vegas, there are probably several hundred public chargers, and, with few exceptions,
all are free. As suggested, ChargePoint seems to be dominant in the US. I would research the systems where you live / ride, and, go from there.
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I had an interesting thing happen last week. Most every Saturday I do a club ride up to Major's Diner in Pine Valley, CA, have breakfast with the club, and then head home. The rest of the club proceeds about 20 miles further before turning around, but I can't do that because I don't have enough range. I'll be getting my super charger soon, however, so I emailed Major's to ask them if they'd consider installing a 14-50 outlet to allow me to quick-charge during breakfast, after which I could do the middle leg of the ride with the group, come back to the diner, recharge again if necessary (getting lunch there or just a sandwich to take home), and arrive home with no range concerns.
The wife co-owner of the diner emailed me back immediately, saying they'd get one installed as soon as their son the electrician had time available. This Saturday, she sought me out when we were up there and told me they're just waiting for one piece, but should have it installed soon. It looks like they'll be ready for me before I'm ready for them.
So now I'm wondering, is part of the answer to getting the infrastructure beefed up to where it needs to be, just ASKING for it? In the case of Major's, they're right in the middle of a big empty desert of charging sources, and having one there will open up a popular fishing area (Lake Morena), the Golden Acorn casino, Jacumba Hot Springs, and a couple of popular area desert hot-spots, Ocotillo Wells and Anza-Borrego state park, to EV travel. It seems pretty likely a fair amount of EV traffic may go through, charge at Major's, and of course enjoy a meal while they're charging up. But Major's wouldn't have known about it if I didn't say something! It's a good idea for them, and they're wise enough to run with it.
Now to get something going in Julian for apple pie runs.
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Doug that's great that they were so receptive to the idea of installing a NEMA 14-50 outlet at your request. Restaurants are the perfect place for charging stations! If you know of a restaurant you want to go to regularly and will actually use, then sometimes it is just as easy as asking.
In this case it is handy that their son is an electrician because paying an electrician can add significant expense. Also it saves them money to install a 50 amp outlet as opposed to an electric car charging station.
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A charging station is quickly becoming an asset for restaurant owners. A 50 amp outlet is a nice temporally solution as you can upgrade it later to a simple wall mounted charger without breaking the bank.
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Actually I'm wondering if a 14-50 outlet is a better solution all around. The equipment cost is far lower, my guess is it's far more reliable, there's no surcharge for the owner to pay to Blink or Chargepoint or whoever, and because of that, the cost can be far lower to the EV owner. I recommended to the diner that they keep a small padlock on the outlet cover to keep control of it, and charge maybe $2-5 per hour when someone uses the key. The power available from a 14-50 is higher than most L2 chargers can do, and I'd bet even the equipment compatibility is higher.
I don't see a downside to it, or an upside to an official "EV recharging station".
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The benefit of a charging station is that the driver does not need expensive specialized equipment to use it. The standard J1772 plug works on all electric vehicles. The NEMA 14-50 only works for electric cars with an adapter that generally costs over $200.
Also, most restaurants are pretty happy when people eat at their restaurant who are charging. It is a generally a better policy to offer free charging as long as the person charging eats at the restaurant. That way the charger acts as a way to draw in customers.
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I've never understood using time instead of used electricity at charging poles. That way a Tesla can siphon a lot more juice than a Zero but pay the same.
@Doug S: I'm talking a bit more in the future when EV's become more mainstream. I don't think that chargepoint will have surcharges for long and placement will be free. The more stations they have the more power they can sell.
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I've never understood using time instead of used electricity at charging poles. That way a Tesla can siphon a lot more juice than a Zero but pay the same.
@Doug S: I'm talking a bit more in the future when EV's become more mainstream. I don't think that chargepoint will have surcharges for long and placement will be free. The more stations they have the more power they can sell.
The cost of electricity is small. If you pay by electricity used then someone only capable of charging at a slow rate (like say someone with a stock charger on a Zero with a J1772 adaptor) can tie up the charger for a long time but you don't pay a lot. While you are slow charging they can't make money from the next customer. Until we get to the point where the charging station is the bottle neck with respect to the amount of time it takes to charge (as opposed to the batteries or the onboard charger) then it probably makes sense to pay by the minute. It might make more sense to pay by electricity used with DC charging.
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I've never understood using time instead of used electricity at charging poles. That way a Tesla can siphon a lot more juice than a Zero but pay the same.
Around here (Wisconsin) the excuse is that only a utility company can charge for electricity. My local charging stations now charge for "parking" by the hour no matter what the draw. So I end up paying for "parking" in a free lot, or double pay in an hourly lot... when I charge. I do charge on occasion to keep practiced with my Chargepoint.
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I work at a casino in Las Vegas. There are several hundred public charging stations around town almost all of them are free ( for now anyway ).
The property where I work had two J1772 Chargers in each valet lot ( 4 chargers total ). One Level 1, and, one Level 2. The Level 1 is pretty high
charge rate for level 1, but, the level 2 is as low as can be and still be Level 2. We have more Teslas every week than all other plug ins put together.
The Teslas never want to be charged. This week, we installed a Tesla only charger in each lot. Will be interesting to see if that changes anything.
Most of the Teslas arrive with over 200 miles of range left, so, probably not a lot of need, but, we shall see. Last week, the Casino gave away
a Tesla Model S in a drawing. Must be nice.I wonder if the Tesla chargers were part of the deal that the Casino made with Tesla.
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... While you are slow charging they can't make money from the next customer. ...
There are legitimate reasons to charge, but profit is not currently a reasonable expectation. The additional costs of the equipment needed to meter and extract payment far exceed the amount that can be earned by that equipment. If they charge enough to make a profit, it will not get used and the business will likely be perceived as gouging. Businesses who treat this as a value add for their customers are able to install much simpler, and therefore less expensive and more reliable, equipment. Attracting customers who will spend far more on goods and services than they will consume electricity is a much more realistic endeavor.
Some of the reasons for the J1772 plug rather than a NEMA 14-50 or similar plug are:
- The vast majority of electric vehicles support the J1772 plug. (in the USA)
- Safe to use in the rain.
- Only a 12V circuit is live until the vehicle is connected.
- Support for multiple voltages and amperage.
- Allows vehicle to adjust it's charging rate based on available amperage.
- Trivial to use correctly without tripping breakers, etc.
- Reduced liability.
There are some drawbacks, most notably the cost of the equipment.
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+1 Chocula. A weatherproof NEMA 14-50 now and a 40A EVSE later might be the way to go for best compatibility. The vast majority of EVs would only be able to use the EVSE; Teslas are pretty much the only ones that carry their own high-amp EVSE with them.
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I know this is an old post and this question may have been answered before but I couldn't find it. ???
It seems every time I look for charging stations they seem to be on different networks and I need to sign up for an account to access them. I'm trying to get signed up for all of them I might come across so I'm prepared, and was wondering if there was a list somewhere? I'm in Southern California and so far came across these either in person or by looking at the PlugShare map, and was able to create an account for them:
ChargePoint
evGo
evConnect
blink
There are additional ones for Nissan and Tesla owners but we wouldn't be able to use those.
Are there any I'm missing? Feel free to reply with other networks even if regional, just specify where you are located.
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I know this is an old post and this question may have been answered before but I couldn't find it. ???
It seems every time I look for charging stations they seem to be on different networks and I need to sign up for an account to access them. I'm trying to get signed up for all of them I might come across so I'm prepared, and was wondering if there was a list somewhere? I'm in Southern California and so far came across these either in person or by looking at the PlugShare map, and was able to create an account for them:
ChargePoint
evGo
evConnect
blink
There are additional ones for Nissan and Tesla owners but we wouldn't be able to use those.
Are there any I'm missing? Feel free to reply with other networks even if regional, just specify where you are located.
Those are definitely the top networks. There are also:
Volta
Next Charge
PlugSurfing
SemaConnect
And also for RV 50-amp plugs:
RV Parky
RV Parks
I suppose I can collate this list into the wiki somewhere.
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Found another charging network today:
Greenlots (https://charge.greenlots.com/greenlots/ (https://charge.greenlots.com/greenlots/))
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The San Francisco based electric and gas utility company, P.G.&E. (AKA Pacific, Graft and Extortion), has just won approval from the California PUC to construct a maximum of 7,500 EV charging stations within their utility jurisdiction, which is most of central and northern California. The cost to ratepayers will be $130 million. The original proposal was to construct 25,000 charging stations at a cost of $654 million, but this was cut back by the PUC.
The original request was for the utility to "wield wide-ranging control over the design of the physical facilities and the network support services", according to an article written by Geroge Avalos of the Bay Area News Group that was published in my newspaper today. The reduction in charging stations was approved by a PUC Administrative Law Judge to not only reduce the impact on the utility's ratepayers, but also to prevent PG&E from obtaining a lock on the EV charging station design and locations, which would severely hamper competition from private companies.
I see two potential issues with this plan: One is that making the all of the utility's ratepayers fund the charging infrastructure and operation is not going to endear those ratepayers to electric vehicle owners. The other more practical issue will be how will the utility find 7,500 parking spaces to locate these stations in congested California where such spaces are at a premium in urban locations? Apparently, the plan is to locate many of the charging stations on private property, such as in front of businesses and at apartment complexes. That means taking these parking spots away from IC vehicles, which is going to be really tough at urban apartments and condominium facilities. And if they start using condemnation proceedings to acquire these stations that could get really nasty very quickly. I hope PG&E can deal with these and other issues so as to not result in public outrage against the EV stations and EV owners, but they have a reputation of being a "bull in a china shop" and they are already on the public's list of companies who they love to hate.
It is going to be very interesting to see how this plan unfolds in the future. I suspect that it will be making headlines every now and then as some poor property owner or business gets squashed to construct a charging station and IC parking spaces turn into charging spaces. And then we have the issue of enforcement. Right now in my area parking spaces set aside for EVs in shopping areas get ICE's all the time and no one does anything about it. Cops don't have authority to enforce parking regulations in shopping centers and the businesses don't want to hassle their customers by towing their vehicles. Details, details. ???
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I was inspired by a PM to elaborate a little on the views that I expressed above and why I presented them the way that I did:
One of the reasons that I make many of my posts here is not only to pass along new news but also to promote discussion on the forum. In particular, it is my view that electric charging stations logically should be installed at existing gas service stations - instead at random locations where EV owners are not expecting to find a charging station, are unlikely to find a station unoccupied, or need to be driving on to private property where they may not be welcome if they are not a customer of the local business. It just makes real sense to install the charging facilities at gas stations as most of the stations that I have seen have plenty of extra paved space to locate a charging station or two where vehicles could stay for a while without impacting the operation of other customers at the station.
Unfortunately, the limited exposure that I have had at gas stations has been that their employees and managers are scared of the EV trend because they believe that will cut into their gasoline sales and eventually put them out of business. Apparently, Big Oil is doing nothing to change this view - which I don't think is correct. A minor change to their business model to accommodate electric vehicles could replace any lost income, and perhaps even increase it. But right now the various parties have their heels dug-in. Change will be hard.
My other issue is with our utility company, PG&E, being in charge of this project. I have dealt with them off and on over the past 40 years. I used to work at a local city's engineering department and one of the things that I did was to manage the city's end of installing existing overhead utility wires underground. While doing that I discovered that PG&E had no respect for their customers, or even our city, for that matter. They just did whatever they wanted, were able to spend our money set aside in a dedicated account to perform this work without any oversight or accounting, and were allowed to interpret state law by the state PUC in any matter that they wished, even if their interpretation was exactly contrary to the written law.
When they blew up an entire neighborhood in the city next to me a few years ago by spending gas pipeline inspection funds on management salaries, bonuses and payoffs to the PUC commissioners, instead of inspecting gas pipelines, their attitude to the public and their ratepayers finally started coming to light. So I don't have a good feeling when this utility is granted a huge sum to install 7,500 electric charging stations with apparently little oversight into how they spend the money, design the chargers, or pick locations for their installation.
Sorry about being kind of negative toward what seems like a good idea to expand the EV technology, but I just have this uneasy feeling about letting a pubic utility company do the work. They just don't have my confidence. :(
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In the spirit of adding to discussion....
I've been floating a "Charging Destination" model. Inspired by Ben Swing's more favorable charging locations (where even a cold beverage, lawn chair and a stack of magazines was palatial) and a recollection of "old timey" gas stations.
To Witt:
Begin to renovate an old timey gas station.
Air Conditioned, lounge, snack bar, laundry, lockers and internet.
Well posted "Plug in then ask" signage.
Short term EV rental (super cheap 1 hour rental- Neighborhood EV, Ecycle, Emoped, Ebike). Fri,Sat,Sun (9am to 6pm)
Long term EV rental ("No Cost*" weeklong rental) Mon-Fri
The model being:
Arrive, plug in and lounge (snack, nap, read, watch media, surf)
Or
Arrive, Plug in and rent an EV (every town has someplace to go... a park, an antique shop, some scenic route, restaurants, historical site, or whatnot)
Return to a recharged vehicle in an hour. (Surcharge if you return LONG AFTER your vehicle is charged)
For us Zero fans... an array of fast chargers on site. and perhaps a swapable battery pool.
And for the longer term rental - arrive in an ICE (*EV rental rate is what it would have cost to drive your ICE vehicle based on manufacturer's fuel mileage) and depart until the weekend in an EV.
Profit? eh - maybe from sales.
also sell "membership" which provides a passkey to open facility during off hours.
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Thanks Richard, I agree that private interests will give you competition which will give you a better product at a better cost. Putting people's lives in danger like you talked about with diverted funds is what can happen when the players and the watchers are in bed together.
The sales pitch has to be your not losing a gas customer your gaining an EV customer. Think of all the overhead cost savings from the storage tanks and delivery trucks, they will make out better in the end.
Private energy producers will have a tough time competing with the state run companies but they will have to emerge or you will find your energy "allowance" controlled and limited.
But it all falls back on fast charging at least <30 mins and really under 15.
As always opinions welcome.
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From my readings of late there seems to be a push for CCS (Quick Charging) stations for the near future. The technology ranges from 200 Kw to 350 Kw charging rates. With these higher charger rates most current and planned EVs should be able to fully charge (80%) in 15 minutes or less. The plug and go charging stations should start forming across the US in 3-4 years to support the new infrastructure.
State governments are looking at the new technology as a new tax source as well. Just as they charge a state tax on fuels currently, this would be extended to these rapid charge stations. Given the low cost of electricity, the majority of the cost at these rapid stations will be Infrastructure recovery and state/county taxes. It would be reasonable for EV owners to use these convenient rapid charge stations when traveling away from home. Would also promote ownership by those who do not have access to EVSE at their home to further increase the number of EVs on the road thus promoting more CCS Charge stations.
If the EV industry can adopt this we could see current fueling stations (especially those that have 2 or more near each other) switch to electric fueling. Once the snowball is rolling it should get bigger and bigger and states will still have a revenue source to help in maintaining their road infrastructure.
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It would seem to me that the major issue with charging stations is that they all need to be of the same design and specification so that when you drive or ride up to a charging station you know that it will work on your vehicle. Can you imagine what traveling around in your IC car would be like if you never knew if the gas filler would fit in your fuel tank inlet when you drive into a service station? Until the industry gets its act together and adopts a common standard for recharging vehicles, there are going to be problems for EV travelers. We need to resolve this matter before tens of thousands more charging stations are constructed.
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It would seem to me that the major issue with charging stations is that they all need to be of the same design and specification so that when you drive or ride up to a charging station you know that it will work on your vehicle. Can you imagine what traveling around in your IC car would be like if you never knew if the gas filler would fit in your fuel tank inlet when you drive into a service station?
I don't have to imagine. My older diesel IC car accommodates the larger diesel nozzles so I could fuel anywhere (even the wrong fuel). Today's diesels have smaller fuel tank inlet as to not accidentally buy gasoline(? (which might not be that bad https://youtu.be/GL9-i9tcESU (https://youtu.be/GL9-i9tcESU))) so even after finding a station with diesel... I have pulled up to a pump which does not fit into my fuel tank inlet.
Whats harder for me... is there are a couple major chains I resist patronizing for trade practices, pollution, social irresponsibility and political activities. (Don't worry Tillerson's Exxon was the original "do not trade" company over a decade ago)
So, I won't stop at just any service station, not every service station has diesel... not every diesel nozzle fits in my vehicle.
I've coped pretty well. Though I can agree standards would be great... but the world will work with non-standards.
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Adopting a standard with EVs is not an easy task. Much like when the Internet was forming it took a consortium to create the standard for everyone to follow. The electric charging technology comes in various forms currently while the industry figures out what system works best for the current/future battery technology. The only item that is moving forward is that most EVs will be charged via electricity by way of DC current to eliminate the AC/DC conversion when storing the energy. Given that, a multitude of connectors designs are being proposed for worldwide adoption. Europe is moving forward with a standard for the middle of next year that maybe the rest of the world countries can get behind and support as a new standard. Even if the new infrastructure standard only lives for 7-10 years then gives way to newer technology. It would have done it's purpose of bringing more fast-charging EVs to market and on the roads.
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Europe has had a standard for AC since 2009, better known as the Mennekes plug, even the Teslas here have them. It accepts 1-3 phases and can support up to 43(!)kW AC charging from either charging stations or a regular outlet.
DC is either CCS or a Chademo plug on the side of the AC port.
In the spirit of adding to discussion....
I've been floating a "Charging Destination" model. Inspired by Ben Swing's more favorable charging locations (where even a cold beverage, lawn chair and a stack of magazines was palatial) and a recollection of "old timey" gas stations.
To Witt:
Begin to renovate an old timey gas station.
Air Conditioned, lounge, snack bar, laundry, lockers and internet.
Well posted "Plug in then ask" signage.
Short term EV rental (super cheap 1 hour rental- Neighborhood EV, Ecycle, Emoped, Ebike). Fri,Sat,Sun (9am to 6pm)
Long term EV rental ("No Cost*" weeklong rental) Mon-Fri
The model being:
Arrive, plug in and lounge (snack, nap, read, watch media, surf)
Or
Arrive, Plug in and rent an EV (every town has someplace to go... a park, an antique shop, some scenic route, restaurants, historical site, or whatnot)
Return to a recharged vehicle in an hour. (Surcharge if you return LONG AFTER your vehicle is charged)
For us Zero fans... an array of fast chargers on site. and perhaps a swapable battery pool.
And for the longer term rental - arrive in an ICE (*EV rental rate is what it would have cost to drive your ICE vehicle based on manufacturer's fuel mileage) and depart until the weekend in an EV.
Profit? eh - maybe from sales.
also sell "membership" which provides a passkey to open facility during off hours.
Why not also accept the charge fobs that every EV rider carries? That way you can charge 24/7.
You might even contact your local fast food franchise to see if you can install a small charging station with multiple outlets on their parking lot, that way you can plug in, enjoy your coffee and snack, do some work while charging and get on with your trip.
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Hey guys, I haven't checked in for a while and just read a ton of misinformation about charging stations.
1) The US has standardization for level 2 charging stations. The plug is "eloquently" called a J1772 plug and that is what you find on all networks (Chargepoint, EVGo, Nissan, etc). This is what Zero uses with their Charge Tank and it is found in every mass produced electric car.
2) Direct Current Fast Charging (DCFC), which is called level 3 charging, is currently split between CHAdeMO and CCS. CHAdeMO had a huge head start because it is a Japanese standard and Nissan installed lots of them at dealerships. However, CCS (the US & European standard) will soon match, and then surpass CHAdeMO standards.
3) CCS fast charging is not yet 150-300kW. They expect to hit those numbers in the future, but they aren't coming for a few years. Tesla superchargers are still the big dog at 145kW right now.
4) Personally, I don't want to see charging stations at gas stations. While charging you want to be either (1) at your destination (having fun, working, hiking, etc) as your vehicle charges, or (2) at a rest stop on the highway fast charging. I would be perfectly happy never stopping at a gas station again. On my trips I seek restaurants where I can eat/drink/access wifi while charging.
Hope this clears up some of the information. I drive an electric car, so my experiences are not only limited to my cross country road trips.
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There are already 150kW CCS stations in the wild.
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I really like the new approach of CCS being implemented in Europe next year with 350Kw stations. Auto Blog has a small article about the 400 stations going up throughout Europe in 2017.
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/29/new-european-charging-network-speed-350-kw/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/29/new-european-charging-network-speed-350-kw/)
I can picture stations like this coming to USA by 2020 and EV manufacturers adopting the standard. Would be so cool to have electric motorcycle that gets 200 mile highway range and could charge in 5 minutes. How much would you pay for this convenience when doing a weekend ride with friends?
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Why not also accept the charge fobs that every EV rider carries? That way you can charge 24/7.
You might even contact your local fast food franchise to see if you can install a small charging station with multiple outlets on their parking lot, that way you can plug in, enjoy your coffee and snack, do some work while charging and get on with your trip.
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There is a fine line between loitering and milking a sundae for a couple hours. Hanging out at a car dealership for a charge smacks of being an unwelcome guest, and doing so after hours is downright creepy. Even trolling the parking lot to confirm availability of charging station is uncomfortable for me.
The mindset change of welcoming the EV exclusively with distractions and services beyond charging, even if those services are the "last mile" transportation need.
In my proposed model anyone can already charge 24/7 as most plugs are outside. "Membership" is to get inside during the charge after hours. Think "anytime fitness" to help set the intent, or even "clubhouse". The paradigm is not "the charging station at the fast food franchise"... it is the "fast food at the charging station franchise".
Sorry about using the word "paradigm", I don't mean to but it is late and it is not the type of language I normally use.
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http://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/29/new-european-charging-network-speed-350-kw/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/29/new-european-charging-network-speed-350-kw/)
I can picture stations like this coming to USA by 2020 and EV manufacturers adopting the standard. Would be so cool to have electric motorcycle that gets 200 mile highway range and could charge in 5 minutes. How much would you pay for this convenience when doing a weekend ride with friends?
It's not the same amount as Europe, but it is also not 2020 -- number 1 is coming soon.
http://insideevs.com/evgo-installing-first-350-kw-ultra-fast-public-charging-station-us/
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If you watch the interviews with the CharIn CEO he talks about how major auto manufacturers from not just Europe and Asia, but US and Canada buying into the service. One really nice feature is no more cards will be needed when you go to charge; not even a credit card. The communication channel on the plug establishes communication with your vehicle and you simply acknowledge yourself (PIN or fingerprint) and the charging begins and applied to your account automatically. Making the charging process even faster than paying at a gas station today.
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If you watch the interviews with the CharIn CEO he talks about how major auto manufacturers from not just Europe and Asia, but US and Canada buying into the service. One really nice feature is no more cards will be needed when you go to charge; not even a credit card. The communication channel on the plug establishes communication with your vehicle and you simply acknowledge yourself (PIN or fingerprint) and the charging begins and applied to your account automatically. Making the charging process even faster than paying at a gas station today.
I think this is a bad idea. It's provably much easier to replace a fob or a card than to fix a broken chip in a charging inlet.
It's also possibly more secure, practically speaking.
It may be less convenient to carry cards, but I hope that CCS vendors are not so greedy and arrogant that they think they can do this without it being an implementation disaster; that is, there had better be a fallback plan.
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The bad side of the good.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/long-lines-tesla-superchargers-holiday-travel-swamps-system-172109043.html (https://www.yahoo.com/tech/long-lines-tesla-superchargers-holiday-travel-swamps-system-172109043.html)
I know Tesla wants total control but they need to learn to play nice with other charging systems.
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The bad side of the good.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/long-lines-tesla-superchargers-holiday-travel-swamps-system-172109043.html (https://www.yahoo.com/tech/long-lines-tesla-superchargers-holiday-travel-swamps-system-172109043.html)
I know Tesla wants total control but they need to learn to play nice with other charging systems.
And that is why I don't see, ICE vehicles, gasoline stations and Big Oil going away anytime soon. Until someone comes up with a way to recharge electric vehicles in about 5 minutes and the necessary infrastructure is in place that approaches the number of gasoline stations, the majority of the driving public will stick with ICE - unless gasoline availability dries up as it did during the Gas Crisis of 1974. :o Then everyone will be sitting in long lines to refuel - just like in the good old USSR. ;)
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I dunno. Too many people using your product seems like a problem any number of companies would LOVE to have.
I know Tesla wants total control but they need to learn to play nice with other charging systems.
Long ago, Elon Musk said Tesla would be willing to share the technology and the stations as well, with anybody, provided they were willing to support the effort financially. I don't think anybody's taken them up on the offer. From an engineering point of view, Tesla's design is so far ahead of anybody else's in terms of connector size and power delivered that "playing well" with the others would be a pretty significant downgrade. I think Tesla's doing it better than anybody else and blame the other companies for not getting on board with the best solution.
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Well the "playing nice" part goes to the fact that no one else can charge at a Tesla supercharging station. I guess you can get an adapter to use other j1772 stations on a Tesla but at a much slower rate of course.
The .40 a min "idle" fee and possible higher "peak" charging fees for the model 3's is a troubling trend. If the rates get closer to gas prices it only slows public conversion to EV's
But the biggest thing is you don't want to tick off people who paid over 100k for your product because it looks like your not growing your stations fast enough to fit the "luxury" experience that comes with a car in that range.
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Funny thing is that the Tesla's over here have a regular Mennekes port.
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I completely agree with Tesla's fee for idle time and believe you will see more of it. I know a business in Charlotte, NC that installed a L2 station for customers to use and charging was free. This lasted until a Tesla owner plugged in and left for several days so no one including the business owner could charge there. The business owner now allows four hours of free charging and then it costs several dollars an hour after that. Until EV owners learn to be considerate of others this sort of charge will be needed. Just read the stories of this past weekend of what happened at a few Tesla superchargers. We bitch all the time about ICE vehicles blocking chargers but in some cases EV owners are our own worst enemies.
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I did hear Tesla is only charging the owners for the "idle" time if they go pass 5 minutes idle at the station, and they are not actually billed until their next service appointment for all their excess idle times. At my daily parking garage everyone is given a 4 hour max. charging time for a standard J1772 charger. You have to leave your key with attendant in case you aren't able to move your vehicle before the end of your 4 hours. Trust me, people don't leave their cars past 4 hours else their car ends up smelling like an episode on "Seinfeld". :'(