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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: ElectricZoro on July 29, 2015, 03:00:59 PM
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How often do you have to have your Zero's serviced? My dealer says every 3750 miles or 6 months?
That cant be right surely?
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I think you have a service at 1000km or 1 month to check drive belt tension and bolt torque. After that it's just 6 monthly check of brakes, bearings, wheels, tires, etc. General check of mechanical componesnts.There is really nothing that needs servicing like a ICE bike. As long as you follow charging procedures it probably more like maintaining a bicycle.
You can download owners manual here. http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2015/2015-Zero-Owners-Manual-S-SR-DS.pdf (http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2015/2015-Zero-Owners-Manual-S-SR-DS.pdf)
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I usually get it checked over every 6 or so months, and do my own weekly servicing checks at the weekend.
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It's not mentioned in the manual that maintenance must be done by the dealer. So may I assume that when I do the maintenance myself, the warranty remains?
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My service interval so far has been when the bike goes to the shop because one of the tires and/or brake pads needs to be replaced. Kind of a hard-to-forget indicator.
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I have never serviced my Zero. I look at it once and a while and ride it all the time, but it never seems to need any service - although I did change the brake fluid last winter. So far even the belt tension hasn't changed from the factory setting after 7000 miles.
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I think only 1 month or 1000km is only dealer service required to check that no problem with dealer uncrating and setup belt tension and make sure bolt torques OK after 1000km belt should not need further adjusting. After that I think OK to check yourself and bring any issues to dealer if found. If you have no mechanical skill get dealer to check every service interval.
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It has been recommended to me that my bike is serviced while it's back with the dealership getting the belt replaced under warranty. Since the only worthwhile check at the first service seems to be the belt tension, I really can't see the point. The belt tension was fine before it snapped - it was the same as when I took delivery of the bike. No broken teeth that would indicate that it was loose and so on.
I'm more inclined to just ask a mechanic to give it the once-over when I next need brake pads or tyres. I can keep an eye on all the usual stuff myself.
I know safety is always paramount, but after the belt snapped like a cheap rubber band after only 1,500 miles, I'm thinking that if something catastrophic is going to happen, it's going to happen regardless. I very much doubt the frame will just break. If the swingarm decides to fall off, it's going to be because it wasn't fitted back on properly when the belt is replaced. The risk of that happening is infinitesimal.
I don't think the front wheel is likely to fall off, given the design. I'd like to think there would be some play or an obvious crack somewhere before that happens. I'm only using the bike to commute and do the occasional trip up a few green lanes. No jumps, although I'd expect it to handle those unless they're of the x-games style with backflips and all that jazz.
Have I missed anything important? Zero maintenance, apart from cycle parts, is one of the key reasons to buy a Zero. It's even in the name!
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Have I missed anything important?
Tires.
Brakes.
Brake fluid.
vibration induced non-critical fastener loosening.
every bearing.
fork alignment.
wheel alignment and runout.
While its nice that there is no motor assembly to maintain... if you owned something like my last honda, then the only maintenance reductions are oil changes and chain vs belt.
I had their flagship CBR1000RR and put 78,000 HARD miles on it. While talking EVs its nice to think about how clean and easy to maintain they are.. lets pull it back to reality a bit.
You have to maintain everything a normal motorcycle has to, except the engine. Just listing things Ive done on a regular basis with bikes not involving the engine/fuel system/etc.
Fork spring swap (unless you weigh perfectly on spec or a noob that doesnt know how important this is)
Rear shock spring swap.
Fork alignment.
Wheel alignment.
steering head bearings check/replacement
Wheel bearings check/replacement
swingarm bearings check/replacement
check rear drive alignment (that would be belt or change angle, not tension.)
belt or chain tension.
Tire checks.
light checks.
brake pad checks.
brake fluid checks.
brake line checks. (abrasion primarily, with SS lines like zero, the lines may be ok, but they can rub and destroy things like fork coatings, paint, etc )
brake pad replacement
brake fluid replacement.
lever pivot checks
kickstand check (especially on a cast kickstand like the zero has)
non-critical fastener checks. (headstay, gauges, turn signals, taillight, farkles, etc)
It may sound pedantic. Most of the Zeros are brand new bikes. Most of you will not do a lot of miles. When you have a brand new bikes, and you never put more than a few thousand on them, you might not worry about most of that... but if you actually USE the bike on a regular basis, any bike, than all this does apply. In a few years when the bikes are no longer new, they will be the same maintenance as any other bike, if not higher... after all, there are no manuals or aftermarket parts.
I know the zero might not eat headbearings like my ducati, or maybe the SS brakelines dont rub.. but you still have to check. I have literally worn out lever pivots and everything else on that list above.
In 230,000+ miles I have not had to do anything unusual to an engine, and have only had two fail. One had 240,000 miles on it. The other had a manafacturing defect and was replaced at 50,000+ miles with a brand new motor. Its usually one of the most reliable parts of the bike for me... Its almost always some strange, unexpected thing that has issues.
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How often do you have to have your Zero's serviced? My dealer says every 3750 miles or 6 months?
That cant be right surely?
Same situation here. Dealer informed all Zero owners that if they don't service the bike every 3750, the warranty is void. Is this legal?
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How often do you have to have your Zero's serviced? My dealer says every 3750 miles or 6 months?
That cant be right surely?
Same situation here. Dealer informed all Zero owners that if they don't service the bike every 3750, the warranty is void. Is this legal?
Not if you, or some other qualified person or shop, performs the work and can document what was accomplished and that specific work did not damage the bike to an extent that the warranty claim was triggered.
I might also add that you should closely read your Zero's warranty and if it differs from what you were told by your dealer, let them know.
I don't think any motorcycle shop (such as the $$$ BMW shop where I have my $$$ BMWs serviced) perform a fraction of what MostlyBonkers lists. The technicians are always so rushed that they just perform the minimum physical work (such as changing oil and filter and maybe checking the valve adjustment and the next service warning date on the bike's computer) required by the regular service, then ride the bike around to make sure nothing is falling off. I keep seeing motorcycle technicians getting the service accomplished in about half the time that the manufacturer estimates it should take and about twice as quick as the labor-time charge that I pay for.
When it came to my Zero I performed all of my own servicing and never had a problem. :)
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Thanks Mr Dude. I did mention cycle parts in my post by the way. You do make a good point about ICE engines often being the most reliable component.
I don't think it is legal about the warranty. I believe there was a big case about it in the car industry which has set a precedent. I'd have to look into it though.
I'll probably take Richard's approach but ask a mechanic to do a few checks every now and then. I hate paying dealership prices for servicing.
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I don't think any motorcycle shop (such as the $$$ BMW shop where I have my $$$ BMWs serviced) perform a fraction of what MostlyBonkers lists. The technicians are always so rushed that they just perform the minimum physical work (such as changing oil and filter and maybe checking the valve adjustment and the next service warning date on the bike's computer) required by the regular service, then ride the bike around to make sure nothing is falling off. I keep seeing motorcycle technicians getting the service accomplished in about half the time that the manufacturer estimates it should take and about twice as quick as the labor-time charge that I pay for.
When it came to my Zero I performed all of my own servicing and never had a problem. :)
When it comes to maintaining or fixing anything, no one can put in the same amount of time as you can. So your attention to detail can be higher, and so can the quality of the service.
This applies not just to your bike, but your car, your PC, your house, anything. Thats why its so important to learn how to do things for yourself.
In anycase service techs drive me nuts on my bike. They always have something I feel compelled to fix or redo.
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When it comes to maintaining or fixing anything, no one can put in the same amount of time as you can. So your attention to detail can be higher, and so can the quality of the service.
This applies not just to your bike, but your car, your PC, your house, anything. Thats why its so important to learn how to do things for yourself.
In anycase service techs drive me nuts on my bike. They always have something I feel compelled to fix or redo.
I really like that, Mr Dude. It sums up human nature, in a way. Others just don't have the same motivation to attend to our possessions.
For those of us who don't feel we have the time, due to young families, demanding jobs and so on, I guess we are at the mercy of the mechanics. I'm looking forward to the day when I feel I can spend a morning tinkering. Otherwise, when I do get the odd couple of hours off the leash, I go for a ride. I agree with you but my time poverty means that my behaviour is different from the ideal.
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I'm in every 6 months if only for software updates. I can't do this myself. Dealer here is charging between $75-100, which is not to bad. Actually nothing compared to my colleagues Versys or gas bikes in general. I definitely saw the range improve last year and also performance as the battery drained. I've read the forum for a couple years and my thinking is its better to catch a problem before out of warranty and once out of warranty to try and resolve if possible. I think its a learning curve for everyone including Zero so there's no pretending that we can fully service our bikes. I was at the garage last month and it amazed me that another owner was in who hadn't come for service in over 30,000km and one year. Seems it would be pretty easy for a manufacturer, especially Zero, to say this or that problem with the battery or motor or controller could have been fixed if brought in for regular service. Anyone know the law in your country or state? I know in MA, you have to be able to show that a garage, or individual, had an ability if challenged. I know several can decode the logs but can anyone actually read and interpret them outside of Zero?
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I'm all for software updates. I know they can sometimes induce new issues if they haven't been tested thoroughly, but for the vast majority of the time they fix things and help prevent future issues. In fact I encouraged Streetbike to update all the Zero's they had in stock, which they did. It's just a shame that more of them haven't found their way to their rightful owners yet. That's another story!
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I'm all for software updates. I know they can sometimes induce new issues if they haven't been tested thoroughly, but for the vast majority of the time they fix things and help prevent future issues. In fact I encouraged Streetbike to update all the Zero's they had in stock, which they did. It's just a shame that more of them haven't found their way to their rightful owners yet. That's another story!
My 2014 Zero S hasn't had a software update since March of 2014. It is running perfectly and I like it that way. :) When it comes to software updates, I am not interested in new ones if there are no obvious problems. Why take a chance on the new programming doing something weird? Having owned motorcycles for the past 54 years, I have learned (the hard way) that if things are running well, don't try to make "improvements". ;)
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I have never serviced my Zero. I look at it once and a while and ride it all the time, but it never seems to need any service - although I did change the brake fluid last winter. So far even the belt tension hasn't changed from the factory setting after 7000 miles.
Same here. I check the tire air pressure, look for punctures (already had two), that's about it. I'm at 5,500 miles. A local motorcycle shop sold me this stuff called "Ride On". http://www.amazon.com/Ride--Tire-Balancer-Sealant-oz/dp/B00DX8BTUG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458904111&sr=8-1&keywords=ride+on+tire+sealant (http://www.amazon.com/Ride--Tire-Balancer-Sealant-oz/dp/B00DX8BTUG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458904111&sr=8-1&keywords=ride+on+tire+sealant)
It's water soluable so it isn't nearly as messy as Fix-A-Flat, and I've used it on my R1 as well. Waaay cheaper than buying a new tire BTW.
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Just thought of something.
Portable "motocycle" tire pumps tend to fail or take forever to work. But we have a really big battery on our bikes which means we can supply power for a more powerful pump.
I have a strong RV airpump in my SUV which uses 12vdc from the battery directly but it weighs a bit.
What are good air pumps which are portable, might run on 12vdc or "120vdc" but will do a good job without the need for CO2 but wont weigh a ton for long trips?
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Just thought of something.
Portable "motocycle" tire pumps tend to fail or take forever to work. But we have a really big battery on our bikes which means we can supply power for a more powerful pump.
I have a strong RV airpump in my SUV which uses 12vdc from the battery directly but it weighs a bit.
What are good air pumps which are portable, might run on 12vdc or "120vdc" but will do a good job without the need for CO2 but wont weigh a ton for long trips?
Instead of carrying a "motorcycle" pump, just carry a normal car one, but take it out of its plastic case so its tiny. Ive done that for years.
also, pretty much any bike can run any pump that plugs into the cig lighter port. They cant pull too much amperage from there or they would pop the cars fuse... so just get a cheap car pump, take it out of its case, and cut the cig-lighter plug off to fit your battery tender plug (or whatever plug you want, since you dont need a battery tender on a zero)
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Instead of carrying a "motorcycle" pump, just carry a normal car one, but take it out of its plastic case so its tiny. Ive done that for years.
I have a feeling this is what the aerostitch pump is ... Right now I have a little "slime" branded pump which takes forever to even change my tire 1 psi ... :/
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I carry around a small, folding, manual bicycle pump (I don't trust anything electrical). I see it as sort of like carrying around an umbrella. If you have one it will never rain. Fortunately, I have never had to use it. But at least I know that if I did, I would get a really nice workout pumping up my tire. ;)
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Had my service today. It cost me ~60$, instead of ~300$ I used to pay on my Suzuki V-Strom in the last ten years. All in all, to pay a professional 60$ to have a look at my bike once in six months is a fair deal, IMHO.
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I don't trust anything electrical
Anyone else think this is a funny thing to say on an electric motorcycle forum?
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I don't trust anything electrical
Anyone else think this is a funny thing to say on an electric motorcycle forum?
Just me. ;D
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It gave me a giggle when I read it. :)
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I'm just researching a Zero as a next commuter candidate (~20,000 miles / year) and the maintenance schedule from the Owners Manual (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/) is all pretty basic except for the very last item, "Drive Motor commissioning and timing" every 8,000 miles or 12 months.
What is that?
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I'm just researching a Zero as a next commuter candidate (~20,000 miles / year) and the maintenance schedule from the Owners Manual (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/) is all pretty basic except for the very last item, "Drive Motor commissioning and timing" every 8,000 miles or 12 months.
What is that?
The owner's manual for my 2014 S doesn't say anything like that. ???
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It's new in the Maintenance Schedule for all 2016 models. This was not required for any 2013 - 2015 models. The 2012 X, XU and MX models had a requirement to blow out the motor brushes with compressed air at the same interval. That was as far back as I checked.
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For those of us who don't feel we have the time, due to young families, demanding jobs and so on, I guess we are at the mercy of the mechanics.
My 7 week old daughter, full time job, and side business agree... it sucks how I take time to fix and maintain things. Really eats into the staring at phone and tv time.
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I'm just researching a Zero as a next commuter candidate (~20,000 miles / year) and the maintenance schedule from the Owners Manual (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/) is all pretty basic except for the very last item, "Drive Motor commissioning and timing" every 8,000 miles or 12 months.
What is that?
It sounds to me like an alignment of the Sevcon controller programming for the motor with some tests - how to apply sine/cosine waves onto the M1, M2, M3 outputs to generate a perfect rotating stator field that applies torque evenly and precisely to the rotor.
I guess the motorcycle is just put on a stand and they use Sevcon's DVT app to calibrate the programming and then spin the wheel with the throttle to confirm calibration. I'm only just now learning to do this so I can get a reverse gear. Anyway, elapsed shop time should be a couple of hours to put the bike on a stand, get the seat off to plug the diagnostic cables in, and run the tests and adjust it, then close it up and do a test ride to confirm.
I'm not sure that anything changed in 2016, but they might have seen enough quality issues in that vein to recommend it. Maybe IPM motors require better calibration than before! It sounds analogous to valve alignment on a gas engine.
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I saw the shop here do it a few weeks ago. It took less than 30 minutes.
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When my faulty power tank was being replaced on my 2014 S by the Zero technician at my dealer's shop over two years ago, the tech told me that in addition to replacing the "tank" and fixing a bent wiring connector (that took a while to locate), he installed the latest computer firmware and also recalibrated the encoder to improve the efficiency of the motor. All of the work that he did, start to finish, took 2 hours. So I doubt that the encoder timing took more than 30 minutes to perform.
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My 7 week old daughter, full time job, and side business agree... it sucks how I take time to fix and maintain things. Really eats into the staring at phone and tv time.
Yep, and I'm switching all to electric because of that !! What a shame, my father spent time with me to train the mechanical maintenance !
My motocross gas bike was replaced by the Zero, my Prius is close to being replaced fully by an EV and I have a leased Nissan Leaf. I replaced my LEHR propane trimmer by an EGO 56V (really powerful BTW) trimmer, only the Grasshopper tractor is left.
Once everything is replaced, there will be almost no maintenance to do, more time with family and fun. Only disk brakes on the car will require maintenance, and if I can get my hand on a Tesla, no more body greasing to do.
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I'm not sure that anything changed in 2016, but they might have seen enough quality issues in that vein to recommend it. Maybe IPM motors require better calibration than before! It sounds analogous to valve alignment on a gas engine.
Mine require motor calibration maybe twice a year, but I only did it once in 2014. The consequence is that the speed at constant speed is not stable, it tends to accelerate lightly and slow down lightly, really lightly, but enough to be perceived.
I would really love to do this calibration myself, I saw the technician do it, he was not an engineer, he was just following the procedure with the bike on a stand.
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The nearest dealer is a couple of hours away and, as my commuter, I'd prefer to do all the service at home and on my schedule. So, this is very much something I'd like to be able to do.
I'm out of my element here but, the first google hit turns up this (http://) PDF that covers some basics on Devcon's DVT software (for Windows) on Gen 4 controllers. There's also this (http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-parts/controllers/calibrators-programmers/sevcon-gen4-36-48-275.html) $900 kit for the hardware and software.
Devcon (http://www.sevcon.com/products/2-wheel-pure-ev.aspx) shows a handheld calibrator on for their Gen 4 controllers on the spec sheets. Those seem to run about $450 to buy or $50/week to rent at thunderstruck-ev.com (http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-gen4-hand-held-calibrator.html) (Sevcon P/N 662/14050). Looks like you'd still need to build/buy a harness and the instruction manual doesn't clarify the calibration process for me on a first pass.
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I'm not sure that anything changed in 2016, but they might have seen enough quality issues in that vein to recommend it. Maybe IPM motors require better calibration than before! It sounds analogous to valve alignment on a gas engine.
Mine require motor calibration maybe twice a year, but I only did it once in 2014. The consequence is that the speed at constant speed is not stable, it tends to accelerate lightly and slow down lightly, really lightly, but enough to be perceived.
I would really love to do this calibration myself, I saw the technician do it, he was not an engineer, he was just following the procedure with the bike on a stand.
Now that you mention it, my 2014 S does the same thing. But by now I am used to it so it doesn't bother me all that much. :) Not nearly as much as an FI IC motorcycle that needs to meet the latest emission requirements.
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I stopped by my dealer (Reno Cycles & Gear) since I'm at 800mi+ ODO and not remembering if or when I should service the thing. It's the weekend so the Zero salesman is not in. Anyways he hasn't followed up on my last two inquiries so I'm not expecting much. Most of the parts sales people said it was an electric bike so it didn't need any maintenance, just remember to plug it in. I persisted and we pulled up the manual from the Zero website to read the maintenance schedule, and one fellow (whom was having a really rough morning it seemed) walked me through all of the points on the service schedule for 600mi - 4kmi. I thanked him, and did look a once-over on my own bike. I noticed the front brake reservoir has some radial stress cracks in the clear plastic. Going back in to the shop I mentioned I might have a warranty issue and could someone take a look? They called for someone from parts (Jessie? I think was her name) who was super helpful took a few pictures and promised to get back to me.
This really seems like I'm the first ever Zero customer at my dealer. I live 36mi over a mountain pass from the dealer location.
Are we customers seen as annoying or bothersome to these new dealers? I don't know how far to push it before I'm just asking someone who's got an easy job to work hard and for not much benefit to themselves. What's in it for a dealer to do a good job developing a Zero customer relationship?
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I stopped by my dealer (Reno Cycles & Gear) since I'm at 800mi+ ODO and not remembering if or when I should service the thing. It's the weekend so the Zero salesman is not in. Anyways he hasn't followed up on my last two inquiries so I'm not expecting much. Most of the parts sales people said it was an electric bike so it didn't need any maintenance, just remember to plug it in. I persisted and we pulled up the manual from the Zero website to read the maintenance schedule, and one fellow (whom was having a really rough morning it seemed) walked me through all of the points on the service schedule for 600mi - 4kmi. I thanked him, and did look a once-over on my own bike. I noticed the front brake reservoir has some radial stress cracks in the clear plastic. Going back in to the shop I mentioned I might have a warranty issue and could someone take a look? They called for someone from parts (Jessie? I think was her name) who was super helpful took a few pictures and promised to get back to me.
This really seems like I'm the first ever Zero customer at my dealer. I live 36mi over a mountain pass from the dealer location.
Are we customers seen as annoying or bothersome to these new dealers? I don't know how far to push it before I'm just asking someone who's got an easy job to work hard and for not much benefit to themselves. What's in it for a dealer to do a good job developing a Zero customer relationship?
I get the feeling that most Zero dealerships are not making a lot of money selling (due to low volume) and servicing (due to low maintenance needs) the bikes and therefore their after-sales customer interest is similar to their profit margin, compared with their IC brands. ???
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Saw this (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5731.0) thread on commissioning a new motor and controller that links to the video below where Burton is using the DVT software to set the "angle of offset"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxA3493vs-I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxA3493vs-I)
Is that the Drive Motor commissioning and timing" every 8,000 miles or 12 months that I've been curious about? Seems easy enough ...although the software is twice as expensive as the hand held unit.