ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Lecram on June 01, 2015, 02:37:46 PM
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I do not understand why Zero added such a small onboard charger. 1.3kW is far too small. Other e-bikes have 3kW or more.
Anyway, did some of you ever consider to replace the standard charger? What 3Kw charger does fit?
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Is adding a quick charger an option for you? Several people have already done that, with the latest one here: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4698.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4698.0)
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An additional charger is planned anyway. But I want to upgrade the onbard charger as well.
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Zero have used a thin, IP65 rated onboard charger that requires no separate heatsink and fits under the battery box. More details of the generic Calex Mfg charger the Zero charger is based on can be found at http://www.greenwattpower.com/1300evc.html (http://www.greenwattpower.com/1300evc.html). I would hope that this is also a low cost charger for Zero (athough the RRP in Australia for a replacement was a very expensive AUD1800 so I'm not so sure).
While we all would like the charger to be faster, there would need to be compromises to the features listed above to achieve higher power output.
The Brammo uses an Eltek Valere 3kW charger @ http://evolveelectrics.com/PDF/Eltek/Eltek%20Guide%20IP67.pdf (http://evolveelectrics.com/PDF/Eltek/Eltek%20Guide%20IP67.pdf). On the surface it is a better charger in a number of ways including:
- higher power
- lower weight (although it requires a heatsink to be added)
- smaller volume per kW
- slightly higher efficiency (less heat)
I'm sure others would have theories as to why Zero have not adopted it but given the need for a heatsink and the Eltek's thickness it would not be possible to fit the charger anywhere but under the seat (as I believe Brammo have done) or in the tank area.
I believe that Eltek Valere only sell these chargers as OEM and require a minimum order which might explain why I'm not aware of anyone trying one with a Zero. From my Googling the documentation about the Eltek charger is almost 5 years old which would make you wonder whether they are still being made/updated.
In terms of what other chargers may fit it's really matter of what you can fit in the tank area above the dog box on top of the battery. Brandon has something I believe and Docbass and Burton have chargers that may be shoehorned in there as long as sufficient airflow can be had.
Protomech put out a nice post on this last year at http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3845.msg23644#msg23644 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3845.msg23644#msg23644)
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Thank you!
A 'tank charger' is no option as I have the Power Tank. The DS has some more ground clearance so I guess that a bit thicker charger shouldn't be a problem.
I am investigating if I can use a more powerful onboard charger with two additional external 3kW chargers. That maks it possible to charge in Europe at a 3-phase 11 or 22 kW chargepoint, which we have many of these here. Otherwise I must carry three additional chargers (2x 3kW and 1x 1.5kW)
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I overheard this during a visit at Zero's factory. Zero asked their customers: what charging options do you want? They got two answers:
1. Overnight charging, so if it takes several hours, that's ok.
2. Very fast charging, such that an empty battery can be re-charged in about an hour.
Hence, we have 1.3kW charger, which is essentially the highest power you can pull from a 15A wall outlet. And ChaDEMO... which unfortunately is not working very well due to station incompatibility with Zero's lower voltage battery.
Many customers may not need (or want) a larger/heavier on-board charger that gives them 3 hour charging, as opposed to 8 hour charging. Maybe Zero's future models will have the choice of which charger to order for the bike.
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Thing about chargers is that they follow the battery tech. Next year, at battery technology rates, it may be possible that batteries start to be replaced with super capacitors or more exotic chemistry compositions that allow for extremely short cycle times and or higher energy densities. Currently though if Zero would just use a giant resistor they could just bleed off the extra 100 volts on the ChaDEMO units. I can't see the resistor getting too much hotter than one billion degrees so they can just put the resistor in a travel mug that can instantly turn your coffee to espresso sludge 8)
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Thing about chargers is that they follow the battery tech. Next year, at battery technology rates, it may be possible that batteries start to be replaced with super capacitors or more exotic chemistry compositions that allow for extremely short cycle times and or higher energy densities.
That may be true, but it has nothing to do with why the onboard charger is sized the way it is. They could have put on a far more powerful charger (literally almost ten times as powerful) if the batteries were the only consideration.
jheth has it right. They went with the largest charger that can operate off of a standard outlet. You can plug in anywhere at any time...a larger charger would require a 220VAC outlet or at least a higher-current-than-standard 115VAC outlet. Overnight charging is fine for most uses; for the outlying cases they were hoping to use CHAdeMO, which unfortunately hasn't worked out (though you could argue it's just fine at most outlets).
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Agreed, all the J-plug fiddling that we are doing is an interim step. Electric motorcycles won't break out of the niche market until you can fast charge with a DC charging station. Even 80% in half an hour is okay for most people, but that is about the upper limit.
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You guys think you have it rough....my internal charger is only 650w. That means that I could technically have 2 chargers integrated and be at 1.3kw. Space is really tight on the FX and weight is something that they wanted to keep down on it so it makes sense. I wonder though how much larger the 1.3kW is vs my 650W.
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Thing about chargers is that they follow the battery tech. Next year, at battery technology rates, it may be possible that batteries start to be replaced with super capacitors or more exotic chemistry compositions that allow for extremely short cycle times and or higher energy densities.
That may be true, but it has nothing to do with why the onboard charger is sized the way it is. They could have put on a far more powerful charger (literally almost ten times as powerful) if the batteries were the only consideration.
jheth has it right. They went with the largest charger that can operate off of a standard outlet. You can plug in anywhere at any time...a larger charger would require a 220VAC outlet or at least a higher-current-than-standard 115VAC outlet. Overnight charging is fine for most uses; for the outlying cases they were hoping to use CHAdeMO, which unfortunately hasn't worked out (though you could argue it's just fine at most outlets).
Just too bad the don't offer a better charger for the country's that have 230V , which is is actually the larger standard worldwide:
(http://www.stjarnhimlen.se/tv/LineVoltageMap.gif)
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Now overlay the map with zero sales and you might have answered your question ;)
How many amps is typical of the household circuits running 220?
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16A So you could charge with about 3.5kW on a single outlet.