ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Doctorbass on April 07, 2015, 07:59:59 AM
-
The demand is so high for FAST charging that i thought that for those who can't affort a 1500-2000$ solution like the Elcon, but that have some DIY experience in electronic like me could have an alternative.
BE AWARE THAT IF YOU BUILD ONE YOU ASSUME ALL RISK AND MIGHT AFFECT THE WARRANTY OF YOUR ZERO.
IT IS ALSO RECOMMENDED TO HAVE A BACKGROUND IN ELECTRONIC.
Also be aware that this cheap compact solution IS NOT WATERPROOF so you would have to cary them with you in a side case or a box in the gas tank.
The 2013+ Zero have a battery that when it is fully charged, it is at about 116V.
For FAST charging you need a powerfull DC power source that can do that voltage and that is also regulated in constant current and constant voltage.
Fortunatly it exist ALOT of solution for a powerfull multi kW power supply that have very great price per watt. One of the most popular solution in teh ebike community is the use of the server power supply. These exist in a wide power range from 400 to 3000W at up to 58Vdc
What is nice is that these are VERY COMPACT!! sometime about 22W per cu inch !! and cost less than 100$ for 2000W.
As i said the 2013+ Zero need up to 116V and these great server psu are just availlable at up to 58V and mostly 56V max. But what is nice is that you can connect two in serie!! so two of 56V would give you 112V and would charge at up to 90% and the 58V would give 116V when in serie and give 100% charge.
As well, charging at 2, 3, 4 or even 7kW can rarely be done on a standard 120V ac outlet and would require 240V outlet. For that it exist a company that sell these great J1772 Adapter that can connect to the most standard electric car charge stations. these cost between 80 and 200$ from TucsonEV.
If you search on ebay for SERVER POWER SUPPLY and look for the 1000 2000 or 2500 or 3000W by searching with 2000, 2500 or 3000 you will find alot of these that are compact and cheap. To operate these you might need to connect some jumper on the rear panel multipin connector but most of the time you can find the datasheet on the internet and find the activation pins to ground or connect to the 5V.
Also you might need to isolate the case of the power supply from the negative pin or ground to avoid a short circuit when connecting them in serie.
If you are lucky you could get two power supply that fit in teh "gas" tank of the Zero as many are about 10" long per 5" wide..
Here is an exemple of these great power supply i have found:
Tyco NP2500 48-V, 2600W Power Supply or Rectifier
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Tyco-NP2500-ROHS5-Series-1-2A-48-V-2600W-Power-Supply-or-Rectifier-/390939207985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b05cae931 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Tyco-NP2500-ROHS5-Series-1-2A-48-V-2600W-Power-Supply-or-Rectifier-/390939207985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b05cae931)
Teh popular but VERY LONG ESP120 from HP.. a 3000W 52V unit :
2 for 69$.. that's 6kW !
http://www.cafr.ebay.ca/itm/HP-ESP120-Series-2950W-Power-Supplies-Lot-of-2-USED-/351364875011?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cefa8303 (http://www.cafr.ebay.ca/itm/HP-ESP120-Series-2950W-Power-Supplies-Lot-of-2-USED-/351364875011?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cefa8303)
This one is 6kW split in 3 unit in a rackmount that can be refolded in a stack of 3 for about 270$
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Artesyn-Emerson-Network-Power-UFR6000-00J-with-3x-UFE2000-96S48PDJ-48V-Modules-/301213471460?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4621b8d2e4 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Artesyn-Emerson-Network-Power-UFR6000-00J-with-3x-UFE2000-96S48PDJ-48V-Modules-/301213471460?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4621b8d2e4)
Some are 12V or 24V and most of them are 48V ( 48 to 58V generally)
Also if you find a great deal for two that can just go let say 52V max you can add a 12V third unit in serie that will raise the voltage to 116V but it will have to support teh same current as the two 52V unit.
IMPORTANT: you will have to add a shotky diode polarity protection in parallel to the output of every unit connected in serie. This will protect each unit when these start and will avoid reverse current going to the last unit that turn ON.
As you see.. this require perticular attention can care and knowledge ans skill but it represent a solution that might cost less than 500$ for a full compatible J1772 charging solution of up to 6kW!
I have personally did that last year for a total of 7.6kW total !! but i have used $$$ very tough Meanwell power supply from the RSP serie ( cost about 1200$ of material total) but it charge my Zero very well and is as compact as a box of shoes! I transport it on a bag on the top of my "gas" tank.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3085.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3085.0)
2000km trip with 13.4kWh total and 7.6kW portable charging last year: http://roulezelectrique.com/quebec-la-sarre-quebec-en-moto-electrique-2000km-pour-0/ (http://roulezelectrique.com/quebec-la-sarre-quebec-en-moto-electrique-2000km-pour-0/)
These server power supply are very similar solution than my meanwell but these cost 3-4 time less and require some little mod.
I tought that sharing that idea will certainly help some DIY guys here!
(http://roulezelectrique.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/20130921_165610-300x225.jpg)
(http://roulezelectrique.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/20140804_171352-1024x768.jpg)
(http://roulezelectrique.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/20140806_121904-1024x768.jpg)
For those who dont have the skill to make their own , Electric Cowboy is also releasing a charge tank solution.
Doc
-
Here's an irony for you Doc. Before we sold the company, and I retired, I was a principle owner of a power supply company that made server supplies as well as a lot of other switchmode power supplies and DC power systems. I was also VP of engineering and later in research. Our biggest business at the time we sold the company was from tell-com, cell site power and large server installations. We built a big power system that supplied 48 v at 10,000 amps (used in a Cisco server installation)! The individual supplies in those systems were hot swap-able so power was never interrupted when a supply failed. Our company was also the first to mass produce switchmode power above 1 KW using power mosfets (my early designs).
The irony is that now that I'm into electric bikes I no longer have any contact with the power converter industry. :( However, I'll take retirement any day!
Thanks for all of your information, insight, and inspiration, Doc.
Trikester
-
Doc, I applaud your resourcefulness and DIY spirit, but I'm not sure I'd recommend that sort of approach unless you REALLY know what you're doing.
Batteries can be fairly sensitive devices, especially when you start talking about charging them at high rates (rates approaching or exceeding 1C). If you want to do that sort of thing, you need to be very careful to obey the charging envelope the manufacturer recommends, or you risk damaging or prematurely aging your batteries. Particularly toward the end of their charging cycles, batteries can't take a huge amount of current -- that's why you often see the "80% charge in 30 minutes, 95% in one hour" sort of spec given for fast-charging technologies. Charging current must be tapered toward the end of the cycle to preserve the battery's health. The same is true if a battery is very depleted....it needs to be charged very slowly until it reaches a certain threshold, then it can take the full "bulk charge" rate.
A fixed-voltage power supply isn't going to do any of that. It's going to simply attempt to supply its preset voltage, subject to its internal current limit. It will supply full short-circuit current right from start of charge, right up through its programmed voltage, and then will abruptly change to "constant voltage" mode, without regard for whether it's violating the safe operating area of the battery.
I'd also be a little bit concerned about operating the power supply in current-limiting mode for the great majority of its operating life. Power supplies generally aren't designed to operate in current limit long-term, and I'm not sure I'd be confident it wouldn't be harmed by that sort of operation. In fact, some supplies use "fold-back" current limiting, so they wouldn't give you nearly as much current as you think you're going to get during most of the charging cycle.
My guess is, you'd usually get away with that sort of thing, maybe shortening the life of the battery a bit but not disastrously. But you might just find yourself having to replace your bike's battery very prematurely.
-
Thanks for your comment Doug.
I am aware of all concern about that cahrging way and i have indicated it in BOLD in the first line of the thread ;)
If it would not have been succesfull for me i would not have posted that idea. That idea is now confirmed to work when done properly.
I know very well the cells in the 2009 to 2014 battery from Molicells , EIG and Farasis. I have my own lab of battery testing that i developped over the 8 last years.
Luke a great friend also know VERY VERY VERY WELL ;) these battery in the Zero and he have no dount that if done properly, these battery will remain balanced very well.
Bulk charging at up to 1C can be done if the battery is in great shape. All cells keep balanced with in 1or 2 mV witch is excellent. In fact the QC that Zero get of these cells is according to their very specific and severe specification. So bulk charging ant 2012 and up cells at 1C is not a problem. The cell temp remain under 35 degree C with ambiant temp of 25 degree C at the end of cahrge ( tested personally)
For the power supply i've been using more than a dozen of these 1kW+ power supply in current limiting mode and they never failed. If properly air cooled these will last longer than the life of the motorcycle. These are used only when charging witch is 1 or 2 hour per 100km...Especially the RSP serie fro meanwell witch are really tough and the Meanwell Sales rep told me alot of impressive story about how tough conditions these are used in and these continu to operate.
Even tough their MTBF would be reduced by a factor of 10 that is still 1000 hours of operation! 8)
I also tought about using the Zero BMS feedback signal (like throttle enable) to cut power to protect the battery against overvoltage of one or more cells.. but these remain very well balanced.
Think about Terry!! he is the best exemple! he charge at more than 1C and also bulk charge and he sometime overvolt them to 4.20V instead of the standard 4.15V per cell and it work perfect for him... most of his charger was not using any feedback signal from what he told me when i have meet him last year in California.
My guess is that he was overvolting them to extend the constant current mode to charge faster...
On my 2012 S ZF 9 + 2x ZF3 i just checked my battery in storage since 5 month now and they are all at 3.700 or 3.699V!! and was bulk charged alot
So... personally i think that if people are aware of what it involve and that they have the knowledge to understand what they do, i woudl say go ahead and try it!
Making long trip i Zero become possible and become a real charm !!
Doc
-
Hi Doc, I going to try using these rectifiers as they were free due to being obsolete for use at work. They normally are in a sub rack x3 rectifiers. I need 4 so will use them without subrack.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/invensys-r524-rectifier-module-24v-20a/msg569931/#msg569931 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/invensys-r524-rectifier-module-24v-20a/msg569931/#msg569931)
-
I have purchased another tank ($99) to see if I can modify it to hold the RSP-2000 series chargers better as well as the wires. No clue how long it will take to get to me given there is no guarantee delivery time with Zero. I will post up when I start to modify it for my purposes.
The RSP's are only rated to 90% humidity and should not run where condensation might be a threat. So even enclosing it into a tank like system with cleverly placed intakes to prevent water from getting into the chargers wont limit you to when / where you can charge.
I did a full test with my chargers yesterday at home (via a 14-50 outlet), without the voltage sensing circuit since I need to get some more 22ga wire which isn't solid copper to make it. They slowly tapered off as the pack reached 90% which is where I set them to (114vdc). The max charging rate I got from them was about 52 amps with the stock chargers, or about 111 minutes to charge a 11.4 bike to 90% from 0% or if you charge from 20% then 87 minutes.
I might end up with a couple of elcons in the future as a backup / tandem charging method for super fast .9C charging when touring but we will see.
-
Again, Doc, I'm not trying to say it won't work, or that it will definitely harm your equipment. It does seem likely that the manufacturers, primarily motivated by liability limitation, probably do put out very conservative specs.
But people need to be very aware, before they do something like this, that they're clearly violating the manufacturer's recommended operating area, maybe by a substantial and significant margin. That's all I'm saying. The likelihood of causing a failure may be low, but the consequences of a failure (a dead battery pack) are harsh.
-
Other Power supply:
http://www.tdk-lambda.com/products/sps/catalog/eng/fps.pdf (http://www.tdk-lambda.com/products/sps/catalog/eng/fps.pdf)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-TDK-Lambda-FPS1000-48-S-1000W-Dual-Output-Power-supply-48V-21A-12V-0-25A-/161599285590?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a0116956 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-TDK-Lambda-FPS1000-48-S-1000W-Dual-Output-Power-supply-48V-21A-12V-0-25A-/161599285590?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a0116956)
-
Doug,
Is charging to 90% with a CC-CV PSU at a max of .5C not good for our battery chemistry?
I have noticed as my RSP-2000-48's get close to 114 vdc (they are set to 57 each) the amps seriously drops down and the output is below the rated 2000w at this voltage.
I have seen some endless sphere wiki posts stating a CC-CV is the ideal charger for LiPo cells but idk about our chemistry.
EDIT: Reference to post I am thinking of http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php?title=Charging_Lithium_Polymer_batteries (http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php?title=Charging_Lithium_Polymer_batteries)
-
Is charging to 90% with a CC-CV PSU at a max of .5C not good for our battery chemistry?
I have noticed as my RSP-2000-48's get close to 114 vdc (they are set to 57 each) the amps seriously drops down and the output is below the rated 2000w at this voltage.
I have seen some endless sphere wiki posts stating a CC-CV is the ideal charger for LiPo cells but idk about our chemistry.
I'd have to spend some time looking at the full charger spec as well as Faresis's recommendations for the battery to give the definitive answer, but it sounds pretty appropriate. Generally speaking, a four-state charger is best -- a small trickle charge if the battery is highly depleted (ours may be prevented from ever getting into that state by the BMS), then a fast "bulk charging" state at a constant current ( "CC" -- 1C is traditional but 0.5C is allowed by many manufacturers nowadays), followed by a fixed-voltage (CV) stage as the current ramps down, and finally a "trickle" stage at slightly reduced voltage to maintain the battery at full charge. I like hearing that the current drops as the voltage approaches the final value -- that indicates that the most important thing, the reduction of charge current near full charge, is being performed.
Also generally speaking, Li-NMC is a pretty rugged chemistry and can stand a lot of abuse. I'm sure that's one of the reasons Zero picked it. I don't want to sound like an alarmist, I just think people need to be aware that a fixed-voltage supply really isn't the best solution for battery charging.
-
I agree with you that a fixed voltage power supply is not appropriate..
That's why i recommend these kid of power supply. These are all CC-CV.. constant current and constant voltage .. just like lithium ion battery require.
Otherwise a simple constant voltage power suply not regulated in current would just bow or trip the breaker or goes in protect.
NMC, NCA, LiFePO4, LiMn, LiCo etc.. all these chemistry just need CC-CV.
BUt as you said there is an important thing: not bulk charge a fully deplated battery. This would cause gassing or accelerate the corrosion of the electrode inside of the cells.
That's why i always start by charging few minutes with the OEM zero charger.. Then i connect the DIY bulk charger.
Oh.. btw the 4x 320W Meanwell unit that charge the Zero to 1300W are in fact CC-CV normal power supply.... commonly used for LED application. The server power supply work the same way in CC-CV. But their CC is the constant current limiting feature.
Doc
-
Even if the bulk charger can only work in two states, if the high-voltage mark is set lower than the pack can handle, couldn't the onboard charger just fill in during that time to top it off because it has to be on for the contactor to be engaged anyway?
Simply put, if the packs are in parallel, which I am assuming they are, why would there be a threat to them if the bulk charger never goes above 114VDC?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm trying to understand this for my own benefit as well.
-
Simply put, if the packs are in parallel, which I am assuming they are, why would there be a threat to them if the bulk charger never goes above 114VDC?
On further thought, maybe I'm worried over nothing. If Doc's right (and he usually is), and those types of supplies are designed to run indefinitely in CC mode (which would make sense in a rack-mount situation where you might have several of them operating in parallel to power the bus), and if the BMS never lets the batteries get to a badly depleted condition, maybe it's perfectly acceptable, and within manufacturer's specs, to do what Doc's talking about. If all of that's true, the only quibble I can come up with is that when the CV portion of the charge is complete, a "smart" battery charger drops the terminal voltage a small amount, terminating the charging cycle and beginning the trickle "keep-charged" phase. But if the terminal voltage is set to the trickle value, I can't even make that argument.
Doc, I stand corrected. If done right, what you're suggesting should not be a problem.
-
What is the lowest SOC we should be charging from at a rate lower than 1C to prevent scaling ? (Yeah I watched the battery charging video posted here a little bit ago)
The rsp 2000 won't even let you charge if the voltage is 80%+\-6% of the set voltage
This would mean if set to 114 out they wouldn't let you charge less the voltage of the pack was at least 84 or 98 correct? (Not sure which it causes but I have had it happen before when set to 116.5 output)
-
On further thought, maybe I'm worried over nothing. [...] Doc, I stand corrected. If done right, what you're suggesting should not be a problem.
Please excuse the slight tangent; I just wanted to mention that I love the level of discussion on this forum: civil, polite, helpful. Thanks you all!
-
Should the bulk charger be made to disengage and turn off when the terminal voltage is reached as well? If so, perhaps some arduino would need to be connected to the sensor lines somehow with a relay to switch the AC side?
-
So, here's another problem.
Onboard charger + 6kW bulk charger = ~7.2-7.4kW
Many J1772 sources in the field balk at anything in the 6+ kW range.
Choosing a 6kW bulk charger may hinge on whether and how easy it is to de-tune it to as low as 3kW
Advice?
I like the ESP120s, but I reckon that they'd not be so flexible in that regard.
In any case, correct me if I'm wrong, as I know how to plug wires together, use a multimeter, and maybe pop some solder points and resolder, perhaps that's it.
-
DynoMutt some of these chargers have adjustable input current or you can swap out resistors to lower it. This would obviously lower the output current as well however.
The RSP stacks have a huge range for input voltage and you can adjust the input current with a potentiometer on the top of the PCB as well as the voltage.
And I think you can add a voltage trimming knob via pin 3 on the 12 pin connector and ground to trim the output from 40% to 115% of rated voltage.
-
Finally found the link someone posted earlier: http://www.cdiweb.com/datasheets/ctc-battery/FEI-DataSheet-IMP06160230P25A-Pouch-25Ah-v5.pdf (http://www.cdiweb.com/datasheets/ctc-battery/FEI-DataSheet-IMP06160230P25A-Pouch-25Ah-v5.pdf)
This is the pouch cell used in my 2014 SR, with lots of good information, particularly in the "Standard Charge Characteristics" graph. First thing I notice is that there is no "depleted" level where they recommend reduced charging current...the manufacturer allows full charging current all the way down (batteries are getting better all the time!). Second thing is that they recommend a 4.2V cutoff, which for 28 cells in series means you can legally charge up to 117.6V, at which point you hold the voltage constant while the current ramps down. Next I notice that the capacity (green line) is virtually max'ed out by the time you hit 4.2V per cell, with very little additional charging occurring after you hit CV mode. Finally, it seems like they consider a "typical" charge is at the 2C rate (12.5 A), but it's acceptable to charge at up to 25A (1C). Charging at 0.5C would exceed the manufacturer's rating for this cell.
So it seems like the manufacturer is perfectly fine with a very simple two-stage charging scheme: 1C charging current (CC mode) until the terminal voltage, then hold that voltage (CV mode). They don't even mention dropping the voltage afterwards to maintain full charge with a trickle, so apparently that's not necessary with this cell.
At this point, I've satisfied myself that Doc is completely correct. I'd worry more about mounting and installing the power supplies somehow so that they stay clean and dry but can get plenty of cooling air when operating.
-
Note that 1C (25 amps) is for each battery pack of 28S cells. Since 4 battery packs are in parallel on the bike, 1C for the entire pack is 100 amps total. So 50 amps charge current, or 1/2 C is well within an acceptable charge rate.
-
Finally found the link someone posted earlier: http://www.cdiweb.com/datasheets/ctc-battery/FEI-DataSheet-IMP06160230P25A-Pouch-25Ah-v5.pdf (http://www.cdiweb.com/datasheets/ctc-battery/FEI-DataSheet-IMP06160230P25A-Pouch-25Ah-v5.pdf)
This is the pouch cell used in my 2014 SR, with lots of good information, particularly in the "Standard Charge Characteristics" graph. First thing I notice is that there is no "depleted" level where they recommend reduced charging current...the manufacturer allows full charging current all the way down (batteries are getting better all the time!). Second thing is that they recommend a 4.2V cutoff, which for 28 cells in series means you can legally charge up to 117.6V, at which point you hold the voltage constant while the current ramps down. Next I notice that the capacity (green line) is virtually max'ed out by the time you hit 4.2V per cell, with very little additional charging occurring after you hit CV mode. Finally, it seems like they consider a "typical" charge is at the 2C rate (12.5 A), but it's acceptable to charge at up to 25A (1C). Charging at 0.5C would exceed the manufacturer's rating for this cell.
0.5C is 12.5A, 2C would be 50A (per string).
A 13.5 kWh 2015 bike is 27x4 + 25 Ah = 133 Ah, so it can accept a significant amount of current.
-
0.5C is 12.5A, 2C would be 50A (per string).
Geez...of course you guys are right. My brain was inverted for a moment there.
-
Better to invert the brain while sitting than to invert the bike while riding.
Did Confucius say that?
Trikester
-
If you are going to use a single charger it has to be easily adjusted for input power. I have 2-2500 watt Elcons on my SR. Sometimes I can use both Elcons and the internal charger. But there are L2 systems out there that I can only use the 2 Elcons otherwise the breaker on the L2 systems keeps tripping. I have charged on Blink systems before that I could only use one Elcon and the internal charger on.
-
Please excuse the slight tangent; I just wanted to mention that I love the level of discussion on this forum: civil, polite, helpful. Thanks you all!
Proud to not be a Ditto-head, but totally agree w/ ptruchon.
This is a great forum for learning and sharing about Electric Motorcycles and discussions like this are awesome !!
Really appreciate all of the good info and topics and sharing of ideas.
-
Charging pr0n
wanted to test my charger before I go on a 200 mile journey tomorrow. A normal 1.5 hour trip will become a 3.5 hour trip according to my calculations but we will see.
I charged from about 5.67kw to 7.77kw in about 27 minutes if I recall consuming 2.3kw in the process so that is 91% efficiency! (this using the RSP's and the stock chargers with only a 200v DC supply :/)
Shows 5.09kw usage
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7691/16997244959_b6f672f3c5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rTZjKz)
Shows 200vdc and 24.9 amps ... Need to put it in a project box and put a high voltage sticker on the charging array.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5449/17182824731_c5e3f65f78_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/sbot9P)
Peaks around 50 amps if I recall
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7720/16560992834_dffc97ba83_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rerqcd)
-
So I was thinking ...
Since we cannot charge with the RSP's in the rain or in humidity over 90% how would we supplement the charging stack with two elcons for trips when we know there is a possibility of rain?
That is, being able to use both sets of chargers at once if possible and only the elcons when not.
What gauge turginy wire would be needed for the run to the controller?
Would I have to "double up" my diodes on the RSP stack?
Would I have to increase the gauge of the turginy wires leading from the RSP's to the Anderson connector?
I assume the controller can handle the amps but could the battery or should I somehow trim it down?
Seriously thinking about doing this after I get my vetter cowl on the bike so I wont have to worry about leaving my bike alone while charging and/or rain or high humidity days we often get here on the east coast :D
-
Ride report
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8827/17205899191_1e2287c5c4.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/sdqJok)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5350/16999049417_6e7b824182.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rU9z9V)
Trip details
200 miles round trip, charging stations plotted out every ~33 miles
Skipped first charge point since traffic was excessively slow and I had only 2 bars missing
Charged at my destination via 120v outlet but only got up to 75% before leaving.
Apparently left at 545pm and got home at 10:30pm making my trip home nearly 5 hours and my trip down about the same.
RSP-2000-48 chargers in series set to 114vdc (90% SOC) and stock charger used.
Things I learned from this trip:
I didn't see any free to use chargers where I could possibly use two J1772 at the same time. So having a dual stack might not be beneficial on the east coast.
.5C charging is so slow >__< I know, I know ... better than stock.
It is fun to facetime people while you are charging and have them ask you where you are
I really need to get this bike streamlined. I spent most of my time in a position where I was practically licking my headlight while I laid on the tank. It wasn't too comfortable for sure.
Charging stations marked as L2 J1772 at Chevy dealers are a joke. They are only 15 amps! Tripped the breaker as soon as I plugged in my RSP-2000 stack to the battery. The guy there said "they charge our volts," I didn't ask how long it took and instead drove down the street to another location. What a joke.
People want to talk about the bike a lot more when I am sitting next to it and they realize it is electric. The best person was a trucker who was trying to yell over his own truck while riding next to me at 45mph on the highway. "Is that electric?" He exclaimed, and with a head nod indicating yes he said "kick ass man," and gave me a thumbs up. ... Of course I couldn't really hear him over his truck so I was forced to read his lips lol
Charging stations are a PINA to find without a GPS if you have never been to one before. I taped instructions to several locations / exits to take as needed just incase and I still failed to find several the first time. Really need to bring a GPS next time.
Using my calculations had I gone 35mph for the full length of the trip I could have got to my destination in about 3 hours ... granted I would still have to charge but seriously it would have made more sense to go slower than faster.
-
Burton,
Good points. The downside to using a single charger in the 6-7 kw range is that not all L2 stations can deliver that much power and you will trip circuit breakers. Try a Blink network charger. Highly doubt you can charge at one without tripping the breaker.
I have a GPS for my SR and put commonly used charging stations in it. Much easier to do it that way. Also make sure you have a way to charge your smart phone since they are great for killing time while charging but you can also deplete your battery.
-
Burton, well done! Looks like an overall successful trip.
Chevy Volts have an onboard 3.3kW charger, so that's why Chevy dealers have only 15A chargers. They max out the Volt's capabilities, but aren't very helpful to anyone else besides early Nissan Leaf drivers (also 3.3kW). Also, if Plugshare lists a charging station as being Voltec, then it is probably 15A.
Where did your ride take you? If you go 200mi north you are near me, and if you go 200 miles south you are near ultrarnr. The Northeast corridor has quite a few locations where you can charge using 2 Level 2 connections, but south of you it is a bit sparse.
-
I went to Richmond and back :)
Stopped in Fredericksburg and Ashland to charge.
Sadly much of my VA / WV stomping ground is extremely sparse for charging options. So much so I wouldn't attempt it without being streamlined.
-
I plan to ride from Maine to Florida this summer. Will try to coordinate a ride with you especially if your bike is streamlined.
My plan is to ride down Skyline drive, but charging options are very limited even though I can charge using NEMA 14-50 outlets at RV parks. By the way, I recommend looking into a NEMA 14-50 to J1772 cord. I got a 3-ft cord from QuickChargePower.com and it comes in handy when riding out in the woods.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I am set up to handle any outlet by standardizing to pp45 connectors
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL9QUUIIdnTqkWeDNdGdTneDyNmxo9tGBZ&v=sYivalPInPw
Skyline is 35mph and 110 miles if I recall. There is a place to eat midway which might have charging options. You do not want to speed here, get caught and they kick you out of state parks and it is a federal offense.
-
Okay, somebody point out to me what I'm missing here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TYCO-AC-3000-52-48V-3000W-1RU-DC-Rectifier-Power-Supply-AC-3000-48-CASE-OF-2-/321709429496?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae76052f8 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TYCO-AC-3000-52-48V-3000W-1RU-DC-Rectifier-Power-Supply-AC-3000-48-CASE-OF-2-/321709429496?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae76052f8)
This would seem to be a good candidate for a 6kW charging solution for under $150, including shipping but not including some diodes, connectors and the like. Data sheet can be found at: http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheet/164652/ac-3000-52_lineage-power.html (http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheet/164652/ac-3000-52_lineage-power.html)
There appear to be a few issues; it seems this particular version is factory-trimmed for 52V output but that appears to be easily changed; the low side of the output is connected to the chassis so the mounting system would need to include isolation; it's not ENTIRELY clear how the current limit works at lower voltages, but it certainly doesn't seem like it's going to overcurrent a Zero's 11.4 battery pack; and I'm not sure if two of them will fit inside the "gas tank" of an SR (which is what I'm looking to do with it). But at well under $150 for both supplies, maybe it's even worth packaging somehow for external carry-along service.
Anybody have any thoughts?
-
Sorry, DougS you are correct. I did not read it properly.
I read it that frame ground only connected to voltage return when used as part of a sub rack.
-
That's not how I read it. I'm sure you saw the same section I saw, but just to be sure we're on the same page I've posted the relevant section. It specifically states that the ground attachment is INSIDE the power supply, and that seems to be confirmed by the schematic fragment as well.
Obviously I could just buy them, test with a meter, and isolate them if necessary.
-
I am set up to handle any outlet by standardizing to pp45 connectors
Hey Burton, are you happy with the pp45's? They're rated for 45A, right? Seems like that should be adequate for at least a 6kW charging system. Have you ever measured the line side current draw? I've never used one of the 1772 charging stations, I assume they tell you how much current you're drawing live?
Skyline is 35mph and 110 miles if I recall.
So funny to hear you guys talking about Skyline Drive on the wrong coast! I guess the one out here is technically Skyline Blvd so it shouldn't get too confusing.
-
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5350/16999049417_6e7b824182.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rU9z9V)
I love my PP45 connectors!
Remember they are only on the AC side of the equation. I haven't seen anything greater than 25 amps go through that side yet.
Coming out of the chargers to the battery I have only ever pushed as much as ~45amps. But that is direct from the chargers to the Anderson connector, then from the Anderson on the bike through the controller (since the stock 2013 wiring doesn't support more than 30 amps)
Review my video on youtube to see me go over the connections if you want to jog your memory.
Zero Motorcycle Quick Charger Build Update (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYivalPInPw#ws)
doctorbass's system pictures
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3987.msg24874#msg24874 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3987.msg24874#msg24874)