ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Richard230 on September 15, 2014, 09:02:10 PM
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This weekend I attended a BMW motorcycle rally that was held in Northern California. The last seminar held at the rally was a group discussion about motorcycles in general. It was chaired by Fred Rau, a prolific magazine article author, Gabe Ets-Hawkins, former City Bike magazine editor and a lady from So. CA who runs a motorcycle safety street riding school. After talking about BMW motorcycles and the state of the industry for an hour, I threw out the subject of electric motorcycles, along with commenting how much I liked my Zero and how it had replaced my BMW bikes for trips of under 100 miles - which is most of my riding.
Now the odd thing was that only Gabe, who had authored several electric motorcycle articles in City Bike, seemed to have any thing to say about the new technology (he is quite supportive of electric power) on the panel. Fred Rau was beating the drum for the reverse-trike Cam Am Spyder, which he said was the fastest growing segment of the motorcycle sport, while the safety riding class lady had nothing to say. One person in the 30-member audience seemed to be aware of electric motorcycles and asked a couple of questions, but everyone else appeared to be either not interested or knew little or nothing about the technology. Naturally, I did my best to explain the advantages of riding electric and how useful an electric motorcycle can be for commuting and for local riding, which is what most of use do every day. It was hard to tell how my comments were received as there appeared to be little reaction from the audience.
It sure seems to me that the word about electric motorcycles needs to be spread among the public better than what is currently happening right now. While there are many of us in the sport that are very familiar with their advantages, there are a great many other members of the public and even long-time riding enthusiasts, who seem to be quite uninformed regarding the advantages of electric motorcycles and recent improvements in performance and usable range.
While we can always beat the drum at a personal level, I really think that the industry and the motorcycling press need to do a better job spreading the word. I think doing something that would get electric motorcycle riding into news articles and that would capture the interest of the popular press is the best way to gain the public's attention. While I appreciate what Terry had done riding his electric egg all over the country, I believe it would be more useful to perform such demonstrations with a stock vehicle that the public can recognize as something that they can buy off a showroom floor.
I wonder how electric motorcycles would be received in the State of Jefferson? ::)
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While I appreciate what Terry had done riding his electric egg all over the country, I believe it would be more useful to perform such demonstrations with a stock vehicle that the public can recognize as something that they can buy off a showroom floor.
This is exactly what I am doing, but I'm not as good at PR as Terry. Both of my 4,000 miles trips were done on stock bikes with the only modifications being ones you can get from dealers.
Also, I think what Terry is doing is absolutely crucial! However, getting butts in seats (demo rides) and getting more of us out there to motorcycle events are good ways to accomplish this.
I agree with you, but it takes time and resources.
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I think the younger crowd is more aware. I've gone to several bike nights where people immediately recognized the bike, and at various bike shops the employees have come out to check out the bike and have mentioned at least hearing the Zero name. Not meaning any offense, BMW motorcycle rally demographics probably skew a little older and a little more insular .. like Harley owners, it'll take BMW releasing a full electric in the US (like the C evolution) to really get their attention.
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Most of the work is left to us owners. The specific electric manufacturers do very little for promotion like ads, maybe a few races and that's it They don't have the ad-dollars that the big established manufacturers have, so it's understandable.
The big boys like BMW and Harley do very little and look at their e-efforts as minimum. I've got a request in with BMW PR for some data for an article on electric motorcycles and scooters, but as usual, no response. They just aren't interested. For the time being the ev are a minimum-service, very little, very expensive - a niche market.
So it's up to us owners to blow the electric horns at any stage.
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I plan on giving people seat time for reviews ;)
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25074278#post25074278 (http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25074278#post25074278)
First review / friend riding the bike. He is already thinking of how to get one himself and has told everyone he rides with about it.
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I think Protomech is correct. My habit of attending BMW rallies and muscle car shows puts me in the old folks (like me) crowd. And most of us are Luddites that tend to shy away from anything that looks new or electrical. Hence the popularity of retro-styled bikes, like the Honda CB1100, the BMW R nineT, the Triumph Bonneville, etc. It is hard to make an electric motorcycle look retro - unless you are Czech and pattern one after a 1950's cyclops scooter. ;)
Still, word of mouth is not going to get the job done very quickly. I can recall when Zero was first starting out (when they had lots of orders and no product to ship), they had an amazing PR department. They seemed to show up in the news every few weeks. I think they even took a ride to the White House, along with stopping by various news organizations and doing other things that got them national press recognition at very little cost. It got my attention and attracted me to the idea of owning an electric motorcycle. Too bad their production department wasn't as efficient as their PR department. ::)
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Talking about Can-Am, did you know that they were manufactured here in Quebec? I heard that they are working on a hybrid version, but it's been a while.
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Okay, I rant and rave to everyone who asks, or friends/family who don't even ask, about how wonderful my bike is. But I'll admit that I'm guilty as charged. I don't do enough EV evangelism.
But how do I go about doing that? What do you suggest? I'm not much of an organizer (I'm a social outcast and I like it that way); like most of us, I don't have a lot of spare time; and I'm not the kind of guy that lets strangers ride my bike.
Let's hear some ideas!
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Well, you can always attend an EV rally like I plan to this Saturday at De Anza College in Cupertino. I should have no problem spreading the "word" there. ;D
But the truth is that word-of-mouth just isn't getting the job done. I think the U.S. motorcycle magazines have been pretty generous with their EV articles in the past, in spite of getting little or no advertizing revenue from Zero and Brammo. It would be interesting to know how electric motorcycles have been received in the pages of the European enthusiast magazines. I would like to see an electric vehicle "Cannon Ball" "race", including motorcycles and cars run every year. I think that would be fun and maybe they could make a "Cannon Ball" movie. With the right stars and the usual movie BS, it could be entertaining and would be a great way to introduce the public to the practicality of electric vehicles. ;) I wonder if Jack Elam is still around? Probably not. I think he wore out his finger in the last CB movie. :D
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Let's hear some ideas!
Okay, I did something. The town I live in (El Cajon, a suburb of San Diego) hosts the "Cajon Classic Cruise" every year from April through October, Wednesday nights from 5-8 pm. I thought it was just hot rods, but it turns out that bikes are included, and a local sportsbike club puts in an appearance. I signed up over my lunch hour and am going to drop by tomorrow. I'm not going to be giving out any test rides but I'll direct people to Rocket Motorcycles if they're interested.
Anybody else in San Diego? Come on out to East County for what should be a very hot evening!
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Let's hear some ideas!
Okay, I did something. The town I live in (El Cajon, a suburb of San Diego) hosts the "Cajon Classic Cruise" every year from April through October, Wednesday nights from 5-8 pm. I thought it was just hot rods, but it turns out that bikes are included, and a local sportsbike club puts in an appearance. I signed up over my lunch hour and am going to drop by tomorrow. I'm not going to be giving out any test rides but I'll direct people to Rocket Motorcycles if they're interested.
Anybody else in San Diego? Come on out to East County for what should be a very hot evening!
I hope you have better luck than I have showing off my GPR-S and then my Zeros at car and bike shows during the past 5 years. I have exhibited my bikes in at least 12 shows and never got very much interest in my bikes, maybe two people during the show would stop by and ask me about my electric motorcycle. I always carried brochures and business cards of my dealer to hand out to interested people. I still have most of the brochures and all of the business cards.
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I hope you have better luck than I have showing off my GPR-S and then my Zeros at car and bike shows during the past 5 years.
I just checked the forecast, its supposed to be "only" 97 tomorrow....today was forecast for 101, we got 106.
If it's unlikely I'll have much interest anyhow, maybe I'll try it some other time.
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Any time I go to a motorcycle or car show I don't have time to take a break. Everyone wants to hear about electric motorcycles.
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Speaking of spreading the word, the American Motorcyclist Association is doing a pretty good job. The October issue of their monthly magazine, American Motorcyclist , contains a very positive four page article on electric motorcycles starting on page 34. It covers the LiveWire, Zero, Brammo and many others, including a sidebar about DIY elmotos and bikes being made by universities. It includes quotes and interviews with various electric motorcycle company marketing VPs, along with Harlan Flagg of Hollywood Electrics. A really great article and well worth reading if you can find an issue. Plus, it goes out to tens of thousands of motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. Great exposure, and I would love to see that article in a more general publication, such as a major auto enthusiast magazine and maybe Popular Science, or the like. :D
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Is there a version of the magazine that is online? I'm interested in reading that article.
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Is there a version of the magazine that is online? I'm interested in reading that article.
I don't know if the magazine is available on line. But the American Motorcyclist magazine website is: www.americanmotorcyclist.com (http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com)
You can try digging through the site. It looks like they might have previous issues available on line.
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Yesterday, a bus driver stopped his bus just to ask me how the hell I passed him without making any noise. He was really excited to learn that electric motorcycles existed at all. So, we're still at that level of awareness. I think I like the sentiment that the best market for these bikes is people who don't even look at motorcycles now.
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I think I like the sentiment that the best market for these bikes is people who don't even look at motorcycles now.
Honestly, I didn't go looking for an electric bike. A year or so ago my only vehicle was an aging (1997, 178k on the clock) BMW 528i that I've loved dearly, but clearly it was time to start looking at new rides. I'm a huge believer in EVs, but a Tesla is way out of my price range and no other electric car inspired me much if at all. But I'm also a lifetime bike rider, had been without a bike for two years, and suddenly realized that an electric bike would fill my needs even better than an electric car: I could keep the BMW for long trips/carrying passengers/bad weather, but an electric bike would handle 95% of my driving needs (commuting and short errands) and allow me to cut WAY down on miles on the car. I figured it would also cost a lot less and be even cheaper per mile to drive than an electric car.
How right I was! My transportation expenses are now a small fraction of what they were, I get to ride a very fun and satisfying motorcycle just about every day, and I still have an ICE car for when I need it, whose gas tank now gets filled less than once a month, instead of more than once a week.
In terms of filling all of my transportation needs, reducing costs, but not leaving me without options for long drives, carrying passengers or bad weather, I don't think there's a better combination than the electric bike and ICE car. Maybe when the electric cars have Tesla-like ranges at Honda Fit-type prices, and fast-charging stations are all over this nation, things will be different, but for now I don't know of any way to beat my combination. And even when/if that day comes, electric cars will still never offer the sheer efficiency and low driving costs of an electric bike.
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I think I like the sentiment that the best market for these bikes is people who don't even look at motorcycles now.
I never considered buying a motorcycle before I heard about electrics (which was during a conversation about Tesla, btw).
e-motorcycle companies should really find a way to benefit from Tesla's visibility, e.g. partnership for joint events.
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Thankfully the conversations are very different now than they were even 2 years ago. People used to look at me skeptically when I said my motorcycle was electric and I didn't have the performance attributes of the SR to point to as an example. Now when people realize I have an electric motorcycle they get excited to see one in person because they probably have read about it.
Changed my tire yesterday at a shop that sells all kinds of gas bikes and both guys behind the desk in the service department were genuinely excited to see my bike in person. They didn't give me a discount, but we had a great conversation. :)
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As part of my campaign to spread the word about the usefulness of electric motorcycles, I posted a short article about my 100-mile ride the other day on my favorite BMW forum: http://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php/208730-A-100-mile-ride-on-my-electric-motorcycle (http://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php/208730-A-100-mile-ride-on-my-electric-motorcycle)
I figure these guys can afford an electric motorcycle - in addition to a BMW motorcycle or two. ;)
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Not to forget the BMW solution itself...
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Not to forget the BMW solution itself...
Which has never been mentioned by the BMW crowd. Fortunately, they have an "automated news bot" that picks up everything on the internet having to do with motorcycles, including the C-Evolution. Unfortunately, no one on the site seems to own one and I don't have any experience with the C-evolution that would allow me to comment any more than what the internet has done.
I might also add that the BMW IC scooters don't get any respect, either. So it may be just a bias against owning a scooter. :(
Speaking of scooters: I just returned from my BMW/Vespa/Triumph dealer and they had a 2014 Vespa Model 946 on display. Its price has increased to $10,495 USD. You wouldn't think that they could sell a 150cc 55-mph scooter for that price. But I was told that they have sold about 8 of them since they were introduced by Vespa. (I was also told that the U.S. is allocated 300 of this model each year.) My guess is that they are bought by well-off customers who want to display them as works of art in their homes. They do look very nice, but don't seem very practical.
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Here's a sad spin on things that you might not consider since the larger percentage of you likely live on the west coast there are little to no EV sales out here on the East coast.
There is no Brammo dealer within id say 600mi. of where I live (1hr south of Boston). The nearest Zero dealer is a couple hours away. Now I did go there to test ride an FX and it was a pretty cool outing but I went looking to ride it. You never hear of or see anything of EV on this shore.
Due to the kindness of one of the promotions people with Harley I did ride the Livewire and it was a great bike. The thing I did notice was the number of gawkers at every light while on the demo ride. I felt the urge to engage the onlookers and let them know what the bike was and what was going on down the street but I don't work at HD and wasn't looking to overstep my position. I would say though aside from the one kind woman that offered me a spot on her group ride the reps weren't that engaging. So what im saying is if they aren't even doing it someone should.
I personally don't have the disposable income to go out and buy a new bike not to mention one that is twice the price. if I had the money to buy a Brammo or an FX (I don't like the other Zeros) or even a decent lithium pack and motor/controller but if I did id be out there riding and racing that thing everywhere and anywhere! So go out and ride with other motorcyclist and show them whats out there. Oh and if any of you would like your bike raced with ICE bikes id happily pilot it for you! you know to put the word out;)
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Not to forget the BMW solution itself...
Which has never been mentioned by the BMW crowd. Fortunately, they have an "automated news bot" that picks up everything on the internet having to do with motorcycles, including the C-Evolution. Unfortunately, no one on the site seems to own one and I don't have any experience with the C-evolution that would allow me to comment any more than what the internet has done.
I might also add that the BMW IC scooters don't get any respect, either. So it may be just a bias against owning a scooter. :(
Speaking of scooters: I just returned from my BMW/Vespa/Triumph dealer and they had a 2014 Vespa Model 946 on display. Its price has increased to $10,495 USD. You wouldn't think that they could sell a 150cc 55-mph scooter for that price. But I was told that they have sold about 8 of them since they were introduced by Vespa. (I was also told that the U.S. is allocated 300 of this model each year.) My guess is that they are bought by well-off customers who want to display them as works of art in their homes. They do look very nice, but don't seem very practical.
It's true. First, scooters are seen as "less" by motorcycle riders. Don't really know why, apart from the 60-70's Mods vs Rockers in the UK. But it's the same license, the same dangers, the same techniques. Only difference is the position and some of the controls. It's my first ever scoot, and am flabbergasted by the fact that I get very few waves back from bikers.
BMW also have not been pushing their e-Scooter. They don't have any sales objectives for their country and dealers, so there's no real push, little info. It's a strange way of doing business, but I guess some Prof. Dr. at BMW has though out the strategy. But one thing is certain, at least in France, they've sold out.
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So go out and ride with other motorcyclist and show them whats out there.
I'll be running a gimmick TSD rally with my Zero S ZF 8.5 in a couple weeks.
http://www.rallyerepublic.com/#section-4713 (http://www.rallyerepublic.com/#section-4713)
I registered as team "Silent but Deadly." ;D 50-80 mile course... might be pushing the boundaries depending on average speeds... We'll see what they throw at me. Should get Zero some good exposure with some other riders.
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e-motorcycle companies should really find a way to benefit from Tesla's visibility, e.g. partnership for joint events.
Funny you should mention that. It goes the other way around, too. At the local Harley Davidson Project LiveWire event (http://1drv.ms/1oVzhiu), Tesla Motors and the local electric utility (http://pse.com/electricvehicles) each had tents to take advantage of the attention. My wife and I took turns photobombing the LiveWire event (https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=0F251EB8C3E17794&id=F251EB8C3E17794%21122288&authkey=%21AFdcr3offzoxkMU&v=3) by riding our EBoz Empulse R there on separate days for our scheduled test rides.
Inspired by this thread's call to gain exposure, I "raced" a Tesla Roadster on a highway on-ramp and later rode home the long way on city streets instead of the highway from my destination this morning. Just in case someone sounds like they would be open to a test ride, I carry a supply of business cards for the local Brammo dealership (http://www.electricbikeseattle.com/) and have a Brammo QR code sticker on the tail assembly. I also answered visitors' questions at the local National Drive Electric Week event (https://driveelectricweek.org/event.php?eventid=124).
Looking forward, I asked the local convention center about their plans to host EVSE inside their parking garage in time for November's International Motorcycle Show (http://www.motorcycleshows.com/seattle), explaining that it would be nice to offer electric motorcyclists the opportunity to recharge before they return home from the show, which includes Zero Motorcycles as a vendor with significant floor space and featured CEO Richard Walker (http://1drv.ms/1oVDiTO) back in February. Hopefully the event facilities manager will consider the idea.