ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: Richard230 on July 31, 2014, 08:37:24 PM
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You may recall that Hollywood Electrics used to sell Brammo Enertias (as well as the Electric Motorsport GPR-S) between 2010 and 2011 and then there seemed to be a little falling-out during the Empulse development years (when Harlan was offering a $1000 rebate should the Empulse deliveries commence during the fall of 2011 - which they didn't - as Brammo had promised to the many potential customers who had registered on-line in July 2010 to buy one - like me). (I hope I have all of these dates right as my memory is not what it used to be.)
Well, it appears that all is forgiven and Hollywood Electrics is now Brammo's latest retail dealer (again). Good for Brammo, good for Harlan, good for the EV motorcycle market in Southern California and maybe not so good for Zero sales in the same area. This will continue to put pressure on Zero to step up their game next year. Perhaps Zero should consider a sport-bike-looking version of the Zero SR to compete directly with the Empulse? Anyway, here is the story:
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140731005275/en/Brammo-Welcomes-Hollywood-Electrics-Dealer-Network#.U9pSNGPQqM1 (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140731005275/en/Brammo-Welcomes-Hollywood-Electrics-Dealer-Network#.U9pSNGPQqM1)
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This is awesome. Congrats to both Harlan and his entire team and Brammo.
I don't know if it'll hurt Zero a ton. Most people I've seen (here on the forum, and talking to people in person) are either pretty sure they want a Zero, ot they're pretty sure they want a Brammo. I think it'll help Harlan to be that one-stop-shop that has it all, where the customers can just go, take a ride, decide and take one home. I definitely think it'll help Brammo, just as adding any dealership would (not that Harlan is "any dealership"...lol).
I look forward to Mods Harlan! Dual chargers? Top case? custom tuning?
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...maybe not so good for Zero sales in the same area. This will continue to put pressure on Zero to step up their game next year.
I couldn't disagree more. When Elon Musk was explaining why Tesla wouldn't prosecute anybody to protect their patented technologies, he said that what Tesla needed was MORE and BETTER competition. More EVs on the road will raise EVs from a niche market to the mainstream, which can only be good for Tesla.
I ride a Zero SR, and I couldn't be rooting more strongly for Brammo, Mission, Lightning, BMW and whoever else tries to push the market forward. It'll be good for ALL the players, even in the short run.
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I was thinking in terms of the two bike's styling. I believe that the sport bike design like the Empulse is more popular in the Southern California market than the Zero street/supermoto styling. Having the two bikes being sold side by side for around the same price in the same showroom would lead me to believe that the Empulse will be more attractive to your typical IC motorcycle customer than the styling of the Zero and may potentially steal some sales from Zero at Harlan's shop.
In any case, I still think that giving the SR more of a sport bike styling, in addition to the supermoto styling version, would improve their sales in some markets.
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Interesting news. Harlan is positioning himself as the #1 electric motorcycle dude worldwide regardless of brand. Perhaps it is all part of an ingenious plot to try and take over the (electric motorcycle) world!
Also, I agree about the SR styling. Would be great to have a more aggressive stance for that kind of power.
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Unless I am mistaken, this makes Hollywood Electrics the only retail dealer in the World to sell both Brammo and Zero. Having both brands in a single showroom will really give his customers an electric motorcycle choice of different models that will appeal to different customers. It is going to be very interesting to see how the two brands going head-to-head will work out in the marketplace. :)
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Perhaps it is all part of an ingenious plot to try and take over the (electric motorcycle) world!
And that would be a good thing...! :)
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;-)
I, too, had a reservation for an Empulse - I made it right after the unveiling of the prototype at Laguna Seca in 2010.
I like both the Brammo and the Zero, but the Empulse has always looked a bit 'clunky' to me. Also, after owning three EVs without a transmission - I see the transmission on the Brammo as an unnecessary added weight and complexity.
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I see the transmission on the Brammo as an unnecessary added weight and complexity.
This SR rider agrees with you. If done right, I think an EV doesn't need a tranny. My bike certainly doesn't need a lower gear to provide more torque multiplication at low rpms!
I assume the transmission is lubricated, isn't it? Do you therefore have an oil pump, filter, and require at least occasional oil changes? That just seems like more required maintenance, and more possibilities for failure to me. Same with the water cooling system -- if you can do without it, it seems like you save weight, cost, maintenance, and your breakdown rate should go down as well.
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From an engineering, chassis component and assembly point of view, I think the Empulse is the more interesting motorcycle. However, I agree with Doug S that for my purposes, the Zero is the more practical vehicle. Less maintenance, easier to clean and it takes up less space in my crowded garage. Plus it is less attractive to low-lifes that might be interested in messing with it as it looks like it costs a lot less than the Empulse and wouldn't be worth stealing for parts. I still think that having both bikes in a single showroom really gives the potential customer a clear choice of different designs. It will be interesting to see how Harlan promotes both brands.
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I think we all need a bit more competition, especially on the quality / customer experience & service. Plus the potential market (ie people who would buy an ebike but do not know about it or do not want all the hassle of being an early customer) is much bigger than the accessible market - the bigger the dealership network, the pressure on bike makers to do quality products & services, the quicker this market will grow !
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FWIW no other EV manufacturer uses gears including Mission, Lightning, Energica... Even car manufacturers don't use gears.
Would like to see Brammo ditch gears and make some different models. Also upgrade range.
Now that Harlan's in their ear it will be interesting if they listen to his recommendations.
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Tacita uses gears and also the Formula E racer uses gears.
Agility (Saietta) is also looking at gears.
So there are still new EV products/concepts coming to the market which use gears.
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Hey everybody. Thanks for all the positive comments! We think this is going to be a win-win-win for everyone involved and further establishes Hollywood Electrics as the one-stop destination for your two-wheeled electric needs. We're looking forward to getting more riders on the road on these great products!
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Damn. Guess I'm going to have to schedule a vacation to LA :)
Seriously, one of the things the electric motorcycle industry needs most is more Harlans.
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No the Empulse does not have a filter, and I don't believe there is a pump in there per se. You simply drain and fill the 1 liter of oil every 3000 miles.
I see Richard's point, but I still feel the Empulse and the Zero SR are different enough that Zero will not see much if any sales slip from Hollywood Electrics. Merely that Harlan will sell a lot more bikes as now the folks looking to buy a more sport focus elmoto can get one from him. And as far as the complaints about the transmission, it is what makes Brammo, and particularly the Empulse unique. And I know for a fact that at one point in time if you told Shelina Moreda you were going to take away her transmission she'd go all farm girl on your you know what. ;) But that transmission is exactly why the Brammo has a higher top speed, and is not getting left in the dust by an SR with a less powerful motor. It does it's job, and helps Brammo meet what they feel are demands from sport bike focused customers, while Zero continues to provide bikes that cater to the utilitarian focused rider, who also like to go fast. And I just don't see Zero putting out a focused sport bike, at least not yet. Yes people race their bikes, and they help with development, but Zero themselves don't have a racing program (MotoZero is an employee backed effort not a proper factory team like BRT). What would they do about the chassis without some serious time on the track to sort things out? I know it has not been an easy road for Brammo. That electric motor changes things, and they were chasing their tails for a while trying to get the RR sorted and calmed down as they added power to it. Of course, I do realize this is a little above and beyond what you guys are talking about.
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But that transmission is exactly why the Brammo has a higher top speed, and is not getting left in the dust by an SR with a less powerful motor.
It's not ideal, but Cycle World's instrumented tests (2013 Empulse R vs 2013 Zero S (http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/10/31/brammo-empulse-r-vs-zero-s-electric-motorcycles-comparison-test-specs-photos/), 2014 Zero SR (http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/05/09/2014-zero-sr-electric-motorcycles-first-ride-review-photos-specifications/)) show otherwise. The Zero SR with a power tank (nearly the same weight as the Empulse) was half a second faster to 60 mph, and almost a full second faster through the quarter mile. A direct-drive system is a little less flexible than a multi-gear system, but both are compromises. That's why some Empulse owners (including Brian!) are switching to a 42 tooth rear sprocket (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2312.0) for faster low-speed acceleration at the expense of top speed.
2014 Zero SR w/ power tank: 450 pounds
30 front, 132 rear: 4.3s (CW tested), 102 mph top speed (spec)
25 front, 98 rear: 4.8s (extrapolate), 114 mph top speed (extrapolate assuming RPM-limited)
2013 Empulse R: 470 pounds
38 tooth rear: 4.8s (CW tested), 108 mph top speed (spec, 2014 R 110 mph)
42 tooth rear: 4.3s (extrapolate), 98 mph top speed (2014 R 100 mph .. possibly a little higher depending on motor power curve)
The 2014 Zero SR w/ Power Tank is a good match up against the Empulse R. Almost the same cost, almost the same weight. The Brammo delivers higher-spec components, onboard L2 charger, liquid cooling, higher top speed, multi-speed transmission, and a little bit of regular owner maintenance so gas owners don't have to quit cold turkey. The Zero SR delivers more power and stronger stock acceleration, 35-50% more range, lower maintenance (not counting glitches), app-tunable riding modes, etc.
Neither bike will sell to someone dead-set against electrics, but there's plenty of differentiation for both bikes to serve a unique market.