ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: pluto on May 28, 2014, 02:08:42 AM
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Anyone know whether it is safe to use this kind of towing rig for a drive-belt equipped Zero?
(http://i24.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/fb/02/9747_1.JPG)
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It is a really interesting question.
first don't go faster than the bike run -> the mechanical rotation may damage your motor if it tops the Max rpm.
Your motor runs as a generator I don't know how a not running Sevcon likes the voltage at its outputs :-\
If your bike is ON theoretically the closed throttle will activate the recuperation and charge your battery ;)
If the battery is full the Sevcon cuts the voltage (some have already reported this phenomena when braking with a full charged battery) but I know the cut-off voltage is pretty high (101-103V) for a 75V battery.
I am not sure if I would do it btw it is not legal over here!
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It isn't safe to use that towing rig for any bike. You will find plenty of youtube videos about that rig and how dangerous it can be.
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If it was me, I would disconnect the belt drive before towing the bike. Why take a chance on damaging the motor and maybe something else?
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Here's the rig I use it good up to 400lb bike.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb8/eyeinsky/2011%20Zero%20XU/e6ae8dad0829681a0d40e885d7e31eb0_zps5b15064b.jpg)
Jerry
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It isn't safe to use that towing rig for any bike. You will find plenty of youtube videos about that rig and how dangerous it can be.
Can you provide a link? I just had a quick look and couldn't find anything except a repo company who says they've used it hundreds of times with no issues.
Here's the rig I use it good up to 400lb bike.
That would work if my hitch could handle more than 200lbs tongue weight. The appeal of keeping the rear wheel on the ground is it cuts the tongue weight load by at least half.
The manufacturer of one of these types of carriers says it is safe for shaft and belt drive bikes but recommends removing the chain if so equipped.
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Note I'm mainly looking for something For short trips (under 100km), or that I can keep at home and the wife can throw in the car to pick me and the bike up if something goes wrong.
For a longer trip and at highway speeds I would definitely use a trailer. I just don't have room to store one in my single car garage which already had 3 bikes....
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First impression is that a zero was inherently designed to have the motor drive the belt, and the belt drive the motor (for the regen)... so... probably "safe" by design in that context.
Second impression is that if you tow a zero on that rig, with the belt intact, the motor might generate electricity regardless of if you want it to or not, maybe even with the power turned off... if your controller goes bad, towing this way could be disastrous...
I could be wrong, but there is some potential badness in this I think :)
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How difficult would it be to remove the belt?
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How difficult would it be to remove the belt?
If it is anything like my 2012 S, removing the rear wheel is very easy. Then you could just take the belt off of the rear wheel sprocket, zip-tie the belt away from the motor sprocket and fasten the rest of the loose belt on the bike's seat. That way you would not have to remove the belt entirely, as that is a more difficult job. When arriving at your destination, remove the rear wheel, reattach the belt to the rear sprocket, replace the rear wheel, adjust the belt tension and you are ready to go.
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My 2 cents - I would definitely tow it with the belt removed, especially if you are going to be at open highway speeds. But I would also follow up on that reply that said there have been reports of that towing rig being dangerous.
Trikester
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I'd never tow my bike with a crazy rig like that where the rear wheel rolls. Hit a nice pot hole and good bye to your wheel and bike. I always use a tow hitch bike carrier like the one above. I also would not tow a car that way either. Have a drive shaft / wheel bearing issue go on your tow car and you're hosed. I haul a jeep for 4 wheeling and would never roll its wheels for transport reasons.
If your current tow hitch can't handle 200lbs, upgrade! Plain and simple. You'll have peace of mind the wheels of your bike are not rolling behind you and clear or any road obstacles.
If that's a no-go, then I'd rather go with this foldable tow solution:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/03/prweb219413.htm (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/03/prweb219413.htm)
(http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2005/03/17/219413/T1001.jpg) (http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2005/03/17/219413/T1003.jpg)
http://www.cyclematetrailers.com/page/page/4067890.htm (http://www.cyclematetrailers.com/page/page/4067890.htm)
(http://www.cyclematetrailers.com/i/Diamond%20Back/Stowaway_pic.jpg)
(http://www.cyclematetrailers.com/i/Diamond%20Back/mts-15.jpg)
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There is only electricity in a closed circuit. If the motor is spinning when switched off it doesn't shoot huge balls of terrifying electricity into the air, it just well, spins pointlessly.
I don't see how that would be an issue but I would avoid it if possible anyway just because it puts unnecessary wear on the tyre and drivetrain.
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If the motor is spinning it is a generator and I don't know how the Sevcon protection circuit / the output filter / and the MosFets/Diodes are working!
You have to keep in mind the electronic isn't powered -> some parts inside could make a closed loop in this situation - maybe high / maybe low current and both can damage the system.
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My response is "Why take a chance"?. Their is too much potential risk and not enough reason to try it. If you tow the bike with the rear wheel on the ground, just disconnect the belt from the rear wheel. But I agree that the trailer system posted by scZero seems like a great idea and a much better way to transport your bike.
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I use a hitch rack with two hitch receivers located as far apart as possible on my pickup truck. I had the extra receivers added (I have a total of three now) just for the rack. It allows me to carry more weight and the rack doesn't rock up and down at the ends. My rack came as an option for two receivers and even still allows the center one to be used for towing, while the rack is there. Unfortunately the manufacturer retired and no longer makes this rack but somebody may have picked up the design. It's rated for 500 lbs with the two receivers in use.
See photo.
Trikester
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I'd second what some others have said - you're better off with a small trailer. That said, I have a Moto-Tote hitch carrier and it works pretty well. With a Class V hitch on my truck, though, I don't have to worry about the weight.
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Hi Jerry. Interested in any info on your tow ball carrier. The ones I can find are only rated to 130 kg. My ZF9 is listed as 150kg.
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Hi Jerry. Interested in any info on your tow ball carrier. The ones I can find are only rated to 130 kg. My ZF9 is listed as 150kg.
I have a Rease Hitch Class 5 good for 1000 lb hitch weigh. Now the carrier is only rated for 400 lb bike.
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/index.jsp?gclid=COnnl86lw78CFQeHaQodYLMAiw (http://www.princessauto.com/pal/index.jsp?gclid=COnnl86lw78CFQeHaQodYLMAiw)
http://www.reese-hitches.com/products/Class_IV__2_inch_Receiver_Hitch,75420 (http://www.reese-hitches.com/products/Class_IV__2_inch_Receiver_Hitch,75420)
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Hi Jerry. Interested in any info on your tow ball carrier. The ones I can find are only rated to 130 kg. My ZF9 is listed as 150kg.
I have a Rease Hitch Class 5 good for 1000 lb hitch weigh. Now the carrier is only rated for 400 lb bike.
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/index.jsp?gclid=COnnl86lw78CFQeHaQodYLMAiw (http://www.princessauto.com/pal/index.jsp?gclid=COnnl86lw78CFQeHaQodYLMAiw)
http://www.reese-hitches.com/products/Class_IV__2_inch_Receiver_Hitch,75420 (http://www.reese-hitches.com/products/Class_IV__2_inch_Receiver_Hitch,75420)
Thanks Jerry. That's a neat solution. I have Chevrolet 4x4 but it has a regular towball. I'll check out the possibilities. In the mean time I'll continue with my 2m trailer. The bike fits to within an inch of the length, but it's somewhat of an overkill.
Cheers,
Mike
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I would not recommend towing any ICE motorcycle using this particular method. If you check in to the owner's manual of almost all ICE motorcycles, you will find they recommend against coasting in neutral with the motorcycle shut off, the reason is as follows.
Due to the transmission being lubricated by engine oil, and proper oiling only occurring while the engine is running, you may very quickly shed any lubricating capabilities of the small amount of oil left in the transmission by spinning it at a high rate of speed without any actual oil movement through the system. Effectively, the transmission is being forced to spin dry, and for obvious reasons could be irreparably damaged very quickly.
Please don't use a tow dolly for a motorcycle with the driveline still connected!