ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: DesignerDan on May 12, 2013, 05:22:39 AM
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Since I live in sunny Florida and work 9-5 each day I figured that would be a great opportunity to deploy some solar panels. I looked online and couldn't find any high wattage, fully portable solar panels. So I decided to make my own. The design is pretty simple; two solar arrays, each made up of (10) 13x13" panels. The panels will be incredibly thin (.1 inches in thickness) and will be hinged together so they can fold up. The completed array should fold up small enough to fit in my backpack.
4 cells per panel and 20 panels. Each cell is 3.5 watts. That's a total of 280 watts in direct sunlight. Assuming they will be in direct sunlight for all 8 hours of my work day (which they won't but this is just a rough estimate) that's 2,240 watt hours of power! That's the max value so with the sun not being at the right angle the whole day and the system inefficiencies (dc-dc converter, inverter, charger) I'm going to do a very rough estimate of maybe 1,000 watt hours on average each day. Which isn't bad. On average I'd say I use about 1.5 Kwh to get to work. So my ride home could potentially be 100% sun power.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/428699_525199410870999_365581736_n.jpg)
The fiberglass sheets that the photovoltaic cells will be mounted to:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/945312_525199370871003_5260588_n.jpg)
I have 2.25 out of 20 panels complete so far. It's a time consuming process to make these from scratch:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/482556_525199424204331_1173362768_n.jpg)
The stack of cells:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/600796_525199387537668_631057250_n.jpg)
The folding process:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/944557_525199337537673_1077218934_n.jpg)
All folded up:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/428467_525199320871008_9936951_n.jpg)
In all honesty, I'm not quite sure if this system will even work. The solar array will be about 20 volts but that value will be fluctuating throughout the day. So the array will plug into a dc-dc converter that will drop it down to 12 volts and keep it constant. The 12 volts will power a standard 12v to 110v ac inverter. The inverter will plug into the Zero's charger. Now I know the charger will "try" to draw 1,300 watts but since the panels can only provide a max of 280 watts, I assume the charger will just operate at 280 watts... I could be wrong though and it might not work at all lol but I don't see why it wouldn't. It's getting it's 110 volts ac so it should be happy and not care about the lack of amps right?
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Hello deesignerDan,
Good initiative to solar power your new working zero!
BUt about the cahrger and the hope to have the 280W accepted by your cahrger this is another story. Your charger will try to pull all the current it need to get the CC-CV at the output so the AC voltage input will drop due to the too high current demand and will make the charger to cut.
All these seriee connections ( dc-dc + cahrger etc will make your efficiency to drop significantly so.. what i suggest is to use a BOOST converter DC-DC that will raise yor voltage to the same as the zero is. ( above 100Vdc)
there is some great boost converter on ebay for cheap. you wil need one thst is current limiting at the output.
I think the new zero is 28s lipo so the max voltage is 117.6Volts DC
OR another solution would be to just use a cheap but efficient 250W inverter that accept 24VDC at the input. there is some on ebay too. they should be able to take 20V input. Then you find the big HV capacitor bank inside ( that'Ms the HV DC stage right before it is pulsated to make it AC with the mosfet) Usually since the cheap inverter are using square wave they usually produce between 115 and 120V DC that is converted in AC so just use the DC output directly. If you push the limit a bit more you could find the trigger wire of the zero that control the current flow of the charger ( it is the white wire on the 2011 and 2012 zero) and to connect it to a relay that activate the inverter or make it to cut when the max voltage is reached on your zero to not overcahrge your battery.
Well alot of possibility ;)
Doc
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Doctorbass is correct that the charger will want all or nothing from the input source. I've been wishing from the beginning that the chargers would be made with an adjustable power level so that they could be adjusted to run from a low power source such as a solar panel. At the present time, that is not the case.
I can't even get the 640 W charger in my 2013 FX to run from a 850 W rated gas powered 115 VAC (sine wave) inverter generator. I have been successful in using a 1600 W rated inverter generator to power the 1050 W charger in my 2012 DS.
Trikester
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Hello deesignerDan,
Good initiative to solar power your new working zero!
BUt about the cahrger and the hope to have the 280W accepted by your cahrger this is another story. Your charger will try to pull all the current it need to get the CC-CV at the output so the AC voltage input will drop due to the too high current demand and will make the charger to cut.
All these seriee connections ( dc-dc + cahrger etc will make your efficiency to drop significantly so.. what i suggest is to use a BOOST converter DC-DC that will raise yor voltage to the same as the zero is. ( above 100Vdc)
there is some great boost converter on ebay for cheap. you wil need one thst is current limiting at the output.
I think the new zero is 28s lipo so the max voltage is 117.6Volts DC
OR another solution would be to just use a cheap but efficient 250W inverter that accept 24VDC at the input. there is some on ebay too. they should be able to take 20V input. Then you find the big HV capacitor bank inside ( that'Ms the HV DC stage right before it is pulsated to make it AC with the mosfet) Usually since the cheap inverter are using square wave they usually produce between 115 and 120V DC that is converted in AC so just use the DC output directly. If you push the limit a bit more you could find the trigger wire of the zero that control the current flow of the charger ( it is the white wire on the 2011 and 2012 zero) and to connect it to a relay that activate the inverter or make it to cut when the max voltage is reached on your zero to not overcahrge your battery.
Well alot of possibility ;)
Doc
Darn that was my fear. Could I use lets say a 180 watt charger and have a dc-dc boost bypass the rectifier in the charger so the dc is directly powering the charger? If that would work then I could have cc-cv and not risk over charging. And the charging "shouldn't" cut out unless wattage of the panels drop substantially. But I guess if I used that setup then I would never be using all the available watts...
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If it should run efficient you need a MPP (maximum power point) regulator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar-Cell-IV-curve-with-MPP.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar-Cell-IV-curve-with-MPP.png)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_point_tracking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_point_tracking)
I didn't try to explain I think the wiki links are much better than me :-[
I am curious how it works, my experience of the cells they are like glass and very fragile. Hope your mechanic will work :-\
I would never go from DV to AC and back to DC if there is a possibility of a DC/DC system.
We built solar charger but not for your voltage and normally it is a step down and seldom a step up at battery systems.
My colleague is building one that could be modified to charge a 2012 /74V system but even your voltage of the modules has to be higher than 75V. I was thinking to play with this for mine but in daylight the bike normally not at home so why. And a portable system like yours. I couldn't but it somewhere at the company.
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If it should run efficient you need a MPP (maximum power point) regulator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar-Cell-IV-curve-with-MPP.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar-Cell-IV-curve-with-MPP.png)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_point_tracking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_point_tracking)
I didn't try to explain I think the wiki links are much better than me :-[
I am curious how it works, my experience of the cells they are like glass and very fragile. Hope your mechanic will work :-\
I would never go from DV to AC and back to DC if there is a possibility of a DC/DC system.
We built solar charger but not for your voltage and normally it is a step down and seldom a step up at battery systems.
My colleague is building one that could be modified to charge a 2012 /74V system but even your voltage of the modules has to be higher than 75V. I was thinking to play with this for mine but in daylight the bike normally not at home so why. And a portable system like yours. I couldn't but it somewhere at the company.
The cells break like potato chips. I already accidently broke a few. Those fiberglass sheet are incredibly rigid and the cells are epoxied to those. You have to apply a lot of force to bend the fiberglass to the point where the cells start cracking. But then again, why would I be intentionally bending the panels. lol So I think the strength is enough. I'll just have to be careful folding/unfolding them and transporting them.
Also, do you have any recommendations for what to use to coat the tops of the cells with? I made a test one with an epoxy coat on the top but epoxy dries really shiny and it looks like a lot of light was being reflected. Or should I leave the cells bare? Obviously they wouldn't work if they got wet but if it's raining the sun probably won't be out. The weathering on the surface of the cells would probably greatly reduce their lifespan though...
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Sorry I am developing the electronic and SW I have no idea what they use to laminate the module, but I know it is a tricky business and not easy to do manually.
I can see and admire you willing to solar charge.
My brain still search what will be a nice way for a charger for you, but I think first it should be sure if mechanic work, before you invest more money.
If it work maybe I can help with charger ideas.
I keep my fingers crossed for your project.
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Good on you Dan. I'm in the planning stages of building my own local storage pv array for my amateur radio equipment. Ideally a top sheet of perspex would be good but you could do without and get a specialist silicone based encapsulant. An eBay search should turn some up. You will have to accept that your setup is far from ideal and you will see a loss of efficiency over time.
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Offthegrid was showing me how he did a trickle charge from a small solar array on the back of the bike he rode from Florida to CA. He had connected enough cells in series to get up over the battery voltage and fed the DC directly into the battery's external connector. He was actually reluctant to tell people about this, however, because there is no battery management protection against overcharging since the BMS signal to stop charging, when it reaches max V, can't shut down the solar source. He didn't have much concern because his solar array was very small and would have taken a long time to reach overcharge.
If you built a cutoff circuit that could recognize the "stop charging signal" from the BMS and break the connection to the solar panel, it might work that way.
Maybe Offthegrid will weigh in on this subject.
He told me that his solar trickle charge did help him a couple of times to gain a little extra charge when he was going to fall a little short of the next town.
Trikester
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That is correct and would work easy
BUT
as I see it correct Dan has complete wavers and a waver has Vo ~600mV and Vmpp ~450mV so hi would need 220 waver to get mpp at 100V that's a lot.
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He could also use a DC / DC up converter. That could be where the full charge shut down would take place - when the full charge voltage signal is sent from the BMS, the up converter shuts off and a diode blocks any reverse discharge.
Lots of good stuff to think about. 8)
Trikester
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Bought a Solar Joos (http://solarjoos.com/products) recently, 20 Wh battery pack with a 2.6 W solar panel. I typically see 6-10 Wh charged during the day, depending on cloud cover and shading.
Kind of similar at a much smaller scale to what you hope to do. 280 W of panels should be able to charge 600-1000 Wh per day, or 6-10 miles @ 100 Wh/mile. Not a huge gain but a neat project : )
Agree that your best bet is to do DC to DC, use a max power point tracker and install a blocking diode to prevent the battery from discharging into the solar cells.
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There are a lot of battery chargers that work from AC or DC.
Example:
http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/products/120W-Single-Output-IP65-Rated-LED-Lighting-Power-Supply/HLG-120---A-Series/default.htm (http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/products/120W-Single-Output-IP65-Rated-LED-Lighting-Power-Supply/HLG-120---A-Series/default.htm)
Those chargers have adjustment Pots on them as well to limit the output current.
-ryan
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You'd be better off leaving the solar at home and having a larger array and go into the grid. I know its nice to go direct but you'd still be offsetting the energy used to charge the bike by what you generate.
Solar to grid is readily available and prices are reasonable.
Just something to think about.
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A deployable solar panel would also act as a nice shade for the bike battery.
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Don't listen to the naysayers. This could be the beginning of adventure electric biking.
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Adventure electric biking @ 6-10 miles per day. Not going to happen with onboard solar, at least on anything resembling a conventional motorcycle or being operated at conventional motorcycle speeds.
2013 Zero needs 10 kW to operate at 70 mph, 6.5 kW to operate at 55 mph. Onboard solar produces .. at best .. 200 W. Our power requirements are about 50x what the onboard solar can provide.
Solution:
1. Increase solar power. More efficient panels or just more panels.
2. Decrease power requirements. Huge aero improvements (solar racers) or just slow down.
These guys claim 200 miles/day with a custom tandem-seat recumbent pulling a solar trailer (23 foot bike + trailerlength).
http://solarbikeproject.com/TechSpecs.html (http://solarbikeproject.com/TechSpecs.html)
They claim 30 Wh/mile - 50 Wh/mile @ 20 mph (depending on level of pedal input) - or about 600 - 1000W. Basically the same energy used as our Zeros, despite weighing much more. They have 1000W of solar onboard.
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Except that the point of this thread is to stop and set up the solar array so it charges the battery while the OP is at work. Or, in other words, while the rider is off doing something else, like exploring. Not to mention the benefits of having an alternate energy source to combat running out of energy miles away from a recharge station. [ ] <~~~~ Think out of it.
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Ah. I misunderstood "adventure electric biking" as adventures on a bike, not adventures off a bike.
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Well, this is pretty simple math.
If you want to charge a 2012 Zero you need to make more than 1KW to charge at it's normal rate. So you need about 1200 W of solar panels. With current solar technology this is about 5 panels that are about 3 feet by 5 feet so a total of about 75 square feet of solar collector to match the current AC charger's charge rate.
It would make a nice little parking shade, but portable it is not. It could done as a standalone shelter that you park under and plug in to. It would cost about $1500 - $2000 for the panels and then more for the structure and whatever kind of electronics you wanted to use to get the juice into the bike.
Anything less than 1KW of generation would mean multiple days to recharge from empty to full.
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Actually your calculations are flawed. PV cells are DC so you arent going to use the onboard charger, that would be silly and inefficient given that by the time you had converted to AC you probably lose 10+% and then the charger back to DC is lossy again. You probably need more like 800W of generation. BUt bare in mind that Solar isnt guaranteed so you would more than likely need 2 or 3 times that amount to be certain of a charge on a cloudy day.
You are right that a portable system to recharge at normal rate is impractical, but that doesnt mean that charging at a lower rate isn't worthwhile.
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The bike doesn't need to charge all the way. I use one bar getting to work. So I'm looking to charge for 8 hours just to replenish that bar. It should be doable with a portable system. The only thing I'm worried about is over charging. I don't feel comfortable hooking a dc dc boost directly to the battery. I need a failsafe or a way for it to shut don't when the battery is full.
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One possibility would be to run the battery down to 50% or so, then charge direct DC during the week, do a grid balance over the weekend.
A custom charge controller (http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/solar-battery-charge-controller.aspx?PageId=1#axzz2TMyNCQ4n) could charge the battery safely and terminate the charge at say 4.1 volts per cell. (I say safely.. I don't know how the battery would respond to intermittent charging, but I assume this would be fine)
1 bar on a 2013 = roughly 800 Wh, 8 Ah. Two bars (for round trip) = 16 Ah (~1.6 kWh).
If you get 4 hours from solar over the entire day, then you need about 4A @ say 110V .. about 2x what you have now.
Powerfilm has a number of different thin film solar panels. Their 60W panel (http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/?f163600&show=product&productID=271511&productCategoryIDs=6578,6579) is 15.4V 3.6A, weighs about 3.2 pounds.
8 panels in series would give 123V (open circuit?), which is in the right ballpark to charge the 2013 battery. Total weight would be 25 pounds of thin film photovoltaics, call it 30 pounds with cables and electronics.
Total area required would be around 8' x 16'. And you'd have $6k in thin film PV just laying out on the ground. Perhaps not super-practical..
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Actually your calculations are flawed. PV cells are DC so you arent going to use the onboard charger, that would be silly and inefficient given that by the time you had converted to AC you probably lose 10+% and then the charger back to DC is lossy again. You probably need more like 800W of generation. BUt bare in mind that Solar isnt guaranteed so you would more than likely need 2 or 3 times that amount to be certain of a charge on a cloudy day.
You are right that a portable system to recharge at normal rate is impractical, but that doesnt mean that charging at a lower rate isn't worthwhile.
I think you may have missed my earlier post. There are many battery chargers that work from AC power or DC input. http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/products/120W-Single-Output-IP65-Rated-LED-Lighting-Power-Supply/HLG-120---A-Series/default.htm (http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/products/120W-Single-Output-IP65-Rated-LED-Lighting-Power-Supply/HLG-120---A-Series/default.htm) Since the first stage of these chargers is AC/DC, you can input DC and they work just fine, so you don't need to go from DC solar to AC power back to DC in the battery. The Mean Well that I linked works that way, you just need to have 127V-370V DC input. That would require minimum 230 silicon solar cells in series which wouldn't be too bad for a home installation, but for a portable array is not feasible. Assuming a cell is about 2W, you would probably find a 500W panel that outputs more than 120V DC, then charge directly from that without having to convert from DC to AC back to DC, and save yourself from having to buy a large inverter as well.
One thing that is neat (but not related to solar panels) is that with these chargers you can plug directly into the High Voltage battery of a Prius (or other car that has a 127 - 370V battery) and charge directly from that. The Car will start up and idle act as a nice and quiet generator if the car's battery gets low while your bike charges . The Prius makes for a great electric bicycle or motorcycle , race / road trip vehicle if you have a charger that can run off its battery, because you don't have to pack a generator, or rely on sketchy track or back-woods motel power, and they are good on gas and very capable of pulling a light weight motorcycle trailer.
Someone might want to take a look and see the manufacturer / part number of the on-board chargers on their Zero, and see what they can actually use to power it.
-ryan
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Actually your calculations are flawed. PV cells are DC so you arent going to use the onboard charger, that would be silly and inefficient given that by the time you had converted to AC you probably lose 10+% and then the charger back to DC is lossy again. You probably need more like 800W of generation. BUt bare in mind that Solar isnt guaranteed so you would more than likely need 2 or 3 times that amount to be certain of a charge on a cloudy day.
You are right that a portable system to recharge at normal rate is impractical, but that doesnt mean that charging at a lower rate isn't worthwhile.
I think you may have missed my earlier post. There are many battery chargers that work from AC power or DC input. http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/products/120W-Single-Output-IP65-Rated-LED-Lighting-Power-Supply/HLG-120---A-Series/default.htm (http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/products/120W-Single-Output-IP65-Rated-LED-Lighting-Power-Supply/HLG-120---A-Series/default.htm) Since the first stage of these chargers is AC/DC, you can input DC and they work just fine, so you don't need to go from DC solar to AC power back to DC in the battery. The Mean Well that I linked works that way, you just need to have 127V-370V DC input. That would require minimum 230 silicon solar cells in series which wouldn't be too bad for a home installation, but for a portable array is not feasible. Assuming a cell is about 2W, you would probably find a 500W panel that outputs more than 120V DC, then charge directly from that without having to convert from DC to AC back to DC, and save yourself from having to buy a large inverter as well.
One thing that is neat (but not related to solar panels) is that with these chargers you can plug directly into the High Voltage battery of a Prius (or other car that has a 127 - 370V battery) and charge directly from that. The Car will start up and idle act as a nice and quiet generator if the car's battery gets low while your bike charges . The Prius makes for a great electric bicycle or motorcycle , race / road trip vehicle if you have a charger that can run off its battery, because you don't have to pack a generator, or rely on sketchy track or back-woods motel power, and they are good on gas and very capable of pulling a light weight motorcycle trailer.
Someone might want to take a look and see the manufacturer / part number of the on-board chargers on their Zero, and see what they can actually use to power it.
-ryan
It looks like the output only goes up to 54 volts? I've been having trouble finding low wattage/ high voltage chargers.
If I could find such a charger I guess I could use a dc dc boost to feed the charger. I will lose some efficiency running it through a boost and a charger but that seems like the safest way to do it. If I hook both of my arrays up in series Ill have 40 volts.
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Prius as a generator for the Zero is a pretty great idea.
I think that from what i have read recently ;) Zero 2013 have integrated charger made of 4x 320Watts Meanwell HLG-320H Led power supply with adjustable current and voltage limit. i think its 2s2p ( 2 parallel time 2 connected in serie) These accept from 100Vac to 305V ac.
http://www.meanwell.com/search/hlg-320h/default.htm (ftp://www.meanwell.com/search/hlg-320h/default.htm)
DOc
You could just run two chargers in series like Zero does.
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Two years ago I was camping at a state park and noticed a fellow sitting in his Prius with the engine idling. Two hours later he was still sitting there idling. So I went up to him and asked what was going on. He told me that he was charging his cell phone and didn't want to run his car battery down. ???
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Two years ago I was camping at a state park and noticed a fellow sitting in his Prius with the engine idling. Two hours later he was still sitting there idling. So I went up to him and asked what was going on. He told me that he was charging his cell phone and didn't want to run his car battery down. ???
I really struggle to believe that someone would be that stupid. Terrifying that somebody thick as two short planks is allowed to drive 1.5 tons of metal around at 70mph isnt it.
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Would the Goal Zero yeti 1250 solar kit work for charging the zero fx 5.7?
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According to the specs, yes. I had some problems charging my Zero S from a solar inverter, but that was probably not a sufficiently large inverter.
The Yeti 1250 should give the FX ZF5.7 about a 20% charge in 90 minutes before the Yeti needs to be recharged itself.
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Actually your calculations are flawed. PV cells are DC so you arent going to use the onboard charger, that would be silly and inefficient given that by the time you had converted to AC you probably lose 10+% and then the charger back to DC is lossy again. You probably need more like 800W of generation. BUt bare in mind that Solar isnt guaranteed so you would more than likely need 2 or 3 times that amount to be certain of a charge on a cloudy day.
You are right that a portable system to recharge at normal rate is impractical, but that doesnt mean that charging at a lower rate isn't worthwhile.
I think you may have missed my earlier post. There are many battery chargers that work from AC power or DC input. http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/products/120W-Single-Output-IP65-Rated-LED-Lighting-Power-Supply/HLG-120---A-Series/default.htm (http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/products/120W-Single-Output-IP65-Rated-LED-Lighting-Power-Supply/HLG-120---A-Series/default.htm) Since the first stage of these chargers is AC/DC, you can input DC and they work just fine, so you don't need to go from DC solar to AC power back to DC in the battery. The Mean Well that I linked works that way, you just need to have 127V-370V DC input. That would require minimum 230 silicon solar cells in series which wouldn't be too bad for a home installation, but for a portable array is not feasible. Assuming a cell is about 2W, you would probably find a 500W panel that outputs more than 120V DC, then charge directly from that without having to convert from DC to AC back to DC, and save yourself from having to buy a large inverter as well.
One thing that is neat (but not related to solar panels) is that with these chargers you can plug directly into the High Voltage battery of a Prius (or other car that has a 127 - 370V battery) and charge directly from that. The Car will start up and idle act as a nice and quiet generator if the car's battery gets low while your bike charges . The Prius makes for a great electric bicycle or motorcycle , race / road trip vehicle if you have a charger that can run off its battery, because you don't have to pack a generator, or rely on sketchy track or back-woods motel power, and they are good on gas and very capable of pulling a light weight motorcycle trailer.
Someone might want to take a look and see the manufacturer / part number of the on-board chargers on their Zero, and see what they can actually use to power it.
-ryan
I agree with Biff about the Dc at the input of standard AC charger. It work and i made a quick video to confirm to you guys.
http://youtu.be/_yisFzF_480 (http://youtu.be/_yisFzF_480)
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Very cool Doc. I love that you have enough toys in your basement to just go hook something up and try it : D
One question. The Delta-Q says 85-265V AC input. That's RMS AC voltage, so the minimum voltage the Delta-Q expects is really 120V AC peak, or 240V peak to peak. You're driving it with 90V DC and it seems to work fine.. is there any way to estimate an appropriate DC voltage range for the charger based upon its input AC voltage requirements? Or just test?
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Thanks for the video Doc
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/6585_536860006371606_792879502_n.jpg)
Progress is slow because I've been busy but I've finished 5 out of 20 panels. It's 70 "rated" watts but I'll do a real life test today. That string of panels folds up into a 13x13" square and is no thicker than an inch. So the completed 20 panel array should only be about 4 inches thick which, in my opinion, is definitely in the realm of portability.
Only problem is, I still have no good way of charging. The array will only be 40 volts. I guess the best option would be a dc dc boost to 120 volts to power a meanwell 200 watt power supply. (and hope my panels can sustain 200 watts)
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Very cool Doc. I love that you have enough toys in your basement to just go hook something up and try it : D
One question. The Delta-Q says 85-265V AC input. That's RMS AC voltage, so the minimum voltage the Delta-Q expects is really 120V AC peak, or 240V peak to peak. You're driving it with 90V DC and it seems to work fine.. is there any way to estimate an appropriate DC voltage range for the charger based upon its input AC voltage requirements? Or just test?
Yes i have "few" toys in my garage 8).. 2x zero DS 2010 for parts and my DS 2011 Plus my 113kmh Giant electric DH bicycle, my drag racing and drift E-trike and a great lab for battery testing and building!
I have not showed that in the video but i was able to drop the voltage as low as 85V DC wich is the same for the AC low limit. below that the charger goes in error and stop working.
since it's a switching power supply with CC-CV at the output, as you decrease the voltage at the input as it will try to raise the current to keep the same input and output wattage.
ONe next thing i could try is to find the internal current sensing shunt of the delta Q and play with the detected sensing mV value with a voltage divider and lower the current to have the delta Q to operate also at lower power to accomodate solar charging to avoid the need of 10 square meter of solar pannel to trigger the charger ON !
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I agree with he Doc, modern switching converters will take a DC input as well as AC.
Ever since the wall plug-in small device chargers started using switching converters I have taken advantage of this when needing to recharge cameras etc on wilderness trips. Back in 1996 I went into the interior of Quebec to raft the Magpie River for six days. I had a video camera with me that used a charger that was rated 100 VAC to 240 VAC. In order to have that wide range it had to be a switching converted. So I put the input on a DC powers supply source, just as the Doc did here. I found that the little charger would work down to about 13 VDC input. For my trip I series connected two 12 v dry cell lantern batteries to get 24 VDC. Every evening I would recharge my camera using the 24 v battery and the "AC" charger. The 24 v, non-rechargeable, battery pack lasted the entire trip and I discarded it at the end.
So the AC input rating may not be a good indicator of how low the input can go on DC before it quits. Of course the lower the input voltage the higher the input current (constant power output), so that has to be considered.
Trikester
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I was wondering what kind of solar power kit or setup would be able to charge the fx 5.7. Doesn't have to be mobile. Just a simple system, panels, charge controller, inverter and battery bank.
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Here'' what I'm thinking of using on the truck and a small honda generator with 12VDC 7amp output. 0 to 80V DC to DC step up converter 600W at 12 v X 50 amp = 72 V v 8.4 amp
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251340428395?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/251340428395?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261293791102?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261293791102?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
Jerry
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I've been working on this project for my house on the island of Newfound Land. NFL is by far the windest place on the planet, Puoch Cove NFL where my place is on the coast of the Atlantic Ocean is almost the farthest east you can travel in Nort America. For this reson I have started to build a wind turbine system. This power plant will be wind and solar with a max estimated output of 600W wind generator. It will also contain load dumps into hot water tank to off set this cost and maximize efficiency. I've link a little video i made last Easter just in case anyone was interested in this geographic location and some if the weather we may see there. I also attached link to my Photobucket with the CAD drawing of my final plan. The main generator will be a Fisher Paykel Smart Drive PM motor wired to 48V output charging 70 ah Ni Cad batteries with 2 1500W full sin wave inverters. The turbine rotor will be a vertical design capable of operating in wind up to 80 mph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZfSgIrxEWk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZfSgIrxEWk)
http://s204.photobucket.com/user/eyeinsky/story/20093 (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/eyeinsky/story/20093)