ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: nicktulloh on April 17, 2013, 08:11:38 AM
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My dealer told me I could select on the fly.
The manual says "To select either of
the switch positions, the motorcycle must be stopped
and the key switch in the OFF position."
Is the manual just being overly cautious or is there a mechanical/electrical reason?
Sport is way more fun.
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Look back for my postings (Subject heading: Handlebar switch works great) about this. I put a momentary switch (spring return to center) on my left handlebar. Running in SPORT mode, using my left index finger, I can push the lever forward to enter ECO mode at the lower regen level. Pulling the lever back with my finger puts it into ECO mode, and lights the brake light to give me the higher level of regen braking.
The downside: Up until 2013 each operation is recorded in a memory register which eventually will fill up and create an error code. No one seems to know whether that will impact the operation of the bike or not. It could take a few thousand operations to fill the register.
The good news is that this won't happen on the 2013's.
I find this switching back and forth and two levels of regen to be very useful, especially in dirt riding.
Check out the various postings by myself and others under that heading.
Trikester
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Running in SPORT mode, using my left index finger, I can push the lever forward to enter ECO mode at the lower regen level.
Isn't this backwards? I mean lower regen is in Sport, isn't it?
So worst case, after x number of cycles, a code would have to be cleared?
Thanks for teh reply.
Nick
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The downside: Up until 2013 each operation is recorded in a memory register which eventually will fill up and create an error code. No one seems to know whether that will impact the operation of the bike or not. It could take a few thousand operations to fill the register.
I recall hearing there was some rotation of the logs to prevent this situation. FWIW.
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I've often wondered the same thing, now I know. I've been turning off the bike at red lights to change over, now I know it's not needed.
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My working understanding is that the manual is overly cautious and is probably motivated by concern about riders reacting poorly to changing the performance characteristics on the fly. I am under the impression that it's necessary to go to zero throttle for the changes to take effect. That might just be the acceleration profile, I'm not sure. Whenever I switch while I'm riding I do it while coasting on zero throttle. Seems to work fine. That said, I'm pretty much never in ECO mode except for an occasional experiment if I'm bored. I haven't noticed significant range differences and I like freely coasting to lights. I do wonder how much longer my brakes would last if I always used regen.
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I always follow the manual's recommendations regarding everything. But then I am half German...... ;)
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Isn't this backwards? I mean lower regen is in Sport, isn't it?
So worst case, after x number of cycles, a code would have to be cleared?
Thanks for teh reply.
Nick
Sport is lower regen with no brake light than the lowest regen in ECO with no brake light, so one has available three levels of regen. In my 2013 it is even better because I can reprogram both of the ECO regen levels with my iPod.
No code can be cleared. It is the case of the chip reaching maximum record / re-write cycles which can vary widely from semi to semi parts. It's a record life thing.
It took some time to find this out in the early postings but it was answered by Zero engineering. They also worked with the controller manufacturer to remove this record keeping memory from the 2013 controllers. It may be possible to upgrade to the later controller, if it becomes a problem.
It is correct that the throttle has to be blipped off of the closed position for the mode changes to take effect, except for going from no brake light regen level to brake light regen level. That change takes place regardless of throttle position.
I've gotten used to blipping the throttle on a long downhill descent (throttle closed) in SPORT mode when coming to a tight turn and switching to ECO for more regen slowing. Usually I'll operate the handlebar switch a little early and then blip the throttle when I want to begin slowing.
Trikester
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Thanks for the clarification of the "chip running full" problem - but I still don't get the consequences of that. I want to decide whether to built myself a quick-sport/eco-regen-switch as well or not.
- what happens when the chip "runns full" to the operationing of the zero?
- how can a "full chip" be "fixed" and what would it cost?
thanks, Christian
(hole part german *g*)
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I want to decide whether to built myself a quick-sport/eco-regen-switch as well or not.
Since no one could say for sure if it would cause operational problems or just a fault code, and that it amounts to thousands of cycles, I decided that the usefulness of the handlebar switch was worth the risk. Zero must have felt, also, that is was worth working with Sevcon to eliminate the situation entirely, starting with this year's bikes. Therefore, in coming years, it will no longer be a question.
If one wanted to spend the money, one could probably upgrade to a 2013 controller in a 2012 bike. I don't know if it fits mechanically or not. There is also the change in motors, don't know if that would be a problem between the two different year's controllers.
Trikester
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You are talking of tow different things,
The chip "runns full" thing is inside the Zero MBB that is logging information.
The Sevcon is doing nothing. But Zero reprogram the Sevcon with each switching between ECO/SPORT on the fly. I have posted how this works.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2344.msg11913#msg11913 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2344.msg11913#msg11913)
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Well at least, according to Zero engineering, we don't have to be concerned about it with the 2013 models. We can switch back and forth, on the fly, as much as we desire. My handlebar mounted momentary switch gets a lot of use. I use it like a left brake lever but I don't have to worry about locking up my rear wheel in a panic stop thinking it's an ICE bike clutch lever.
Zero engineering did tell me that they worked with SevCon to eliminate the problem, so I don't know how the 2013 SevCons and the Zero MBBs might differ from the 2012 models.
Trikester
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I do believe there is no Problem with switching. I did the ECO/SPORT for awhile with the flash light switch.
But I understand know why Zero wrote that it is not allowed to switch and the Sevcon manual never mention it. (pure safety for recourse )
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I've been switching on the fly with my 2012 Zero S ever since I got it over a year ago and it works great.
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I do believe there is no Problem with switching. I did the ECO/SPORT for a will with the flash light switch.
I also used the flash light switch when I first modified mine. Then I returned that switch to its original function after I mounted the bi-directional momentary switch. I found the bar mounted switch more comfortable to use on a frequent basis and I could select brake light or no brake light, with the two positions, and have two levels of regen to work with.
Either way it's good to be able to switch in ECO easily on the fly. Before either of these switches I was reaching over the bar to switch and risking loosing control on dirt descents.
Trikester
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I love the idea of the flashlight switch to be used to switch eco/sport and breaklight at once.
Can someone tell me how to modify this the best way?
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I originally used the flashlight sw but found that it was uncomfortable to use much. So then I mounted the handlebar sw that I showed in my thread.
By using that two pole switch I can select two different levels of regen. Pushing the lever forward with my index finger gives me the lower regen setting and pulling it back puts on the brake light and I get the high regen. You can't tie the eco/sport circuit to the brakelight circuit. You have to use two isolated switch poles so using the flashlight sw you can only select the lower regen and you will have to gently pull on the brake lever to switch to the higher regen level. That works, but I prefer to not use the brake lever at all.
Either way you go it is better than stock.
In my thread "Handle Bar Switch Works Great" I show a schematic of the switch wiring.
Trikester
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http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2187.msg7685#msg7685 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2187.msg7685#msg7685)
It's long ago I have rebuilt it.