ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Doctorbass on January 26, 2013, 11:18:43 AM
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These document that i dont know if they are public ( but that i found easy on the internet) might have some secret that will interest you about the 2011, 2012 and 2013 zero ;)
some details seem common but you might find some normally "hidden to public" informations :-X
Model 2013 technical training:
http://prezi.com/swimi4sjsztf/my-13-training/?utm_source=website&utm_medium=prezi_landing_related_solr&utm_campaign=prezi_landing_related_author (http://prezi.com/swimi4sjsztf/my-13-training/?utm_source=website&utm_medium=prezi_landing_related_solr&utm_campaign=prezi_landing_related_author)
and this one :
http://prezi.com/u5ez4tdecz59/my-13-tech/?utm_source=website&utm_medium=prezi_landing_related&utm_campaign=prezi_landing_related_author (http://prezi.com/u5ez4tdecz59/my-13-tech/?utm_source=website&utm_medium=prezi_landing_related&utm_campaign=prezi_landing_related_author)
with that i got more info about the MBB command lines ;)
Doc
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Very educational, good to see them advancing so quickly with technology, very cutting edge.
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Very interesting. Only 277 total units sold in 2012? Only 106 of those were S models? Wow. There has been lots of conjecture on this board that sales were alot higher.
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I get a "not found" message when I click either of your Prezi links. :(
Trikester
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I get a "not found" message when I click either of your Prezi links. :(
Yup, they're gone now. Apparently they were not for public consumption. Shame.
They had lots of cool pictures of the 2011, 2012, and 2013 battery packs and info as to why they are better and better.
They had a section talking in depth about 2013 charging technology and chademo.
They had a section describing the '11 agni, the '12 motonergy and the new '13 zero-build motor; also with pictures and tech info
They listed the 2012 DS as 0-60 in 8.0s; and then all the '13 model's times. I remember 2013 S8.5 as 5.3s; 2013S 11.7 as 5.7s.
They had a section about suspension improvements in the '13 models.
There was a section that talked about the user interface (phone connection) to the 2013's. That was cool.
The talked about the 2012 recalls, what the causes and fixes were.
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Well, that would have been very interesting reading. I guess I wasn't the "early bird" today. :(
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wish i would have read this earlier. i would certainly have downloaded everything i could. one of my long-worn hats is that of a hacker. there's always a way.
to me, "hiding" any technical info about a product i paid for seems inconsiderate, even rude. it wasn't the norm in the past, only since the unfortunate boom of companies like microsoft. now it's considered necessary and appropriate. very lame.
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Much of the information is about the 2013 bikes, not the 2012. I really wish Zero would make technical information about the bikes available to the end users as well - I think it would cut down significantly on support costs.
Keep in mind that the presentations were created back in September, and could be using sales data that's even older. The presentations felt like they were a draft presentation - some of the slides had text that was hidden by images, and some of the slides felt like placeholders.
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Hey guys, i had some images i grabbed before they completly dissapear from the internet!
If i would have known that they could be removed i would have saved all them!
OK.. i thgink i will shut my mouth.. maybe it's some people HERE that discovered that and asked the person that posted them PUBLIC to remove them.. dohh !
I wonder who it would be... :-X
PICTURES REMOVED TO PRESERVE ZERO MOTORCYCLE "CONFIDENTIALITY"
Doc
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The new charger seem to be an arrangement of serie parallel Mewanwell small 320W psu that have high efficiency and PFC
see the ZERO CHARGING = Ride Time slide you can see these meanwell psu as charger.
Meanwell model: HLG-320H-54A
(http://www.powergatellc.com/images/product/HLG-320H.jpg)
http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-hlg-320h-54a-power-supply.html (http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-hlg-320h-54a-power-supply.html)
Doc
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OK.. i thgink i will shut my mouth.. maybe it's some people HERE that discovered that and asked the person that posted them PUBLIC to remove them.. dohh !
Several Zero employees read this forum, and a few post here from time to time.
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yeah.. i guess... anyway, these info are interesting for us and should be used in a constructive way.
Doc
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Hey guys, i had some images i grabbed before they completly dissapear from the internet!
If i would have known that they could be removed i would have saved all them!
OK.. i thgink i will shut my mouth.. maybe it's some people HERE that discovered that and asked the person that posted them PUBLIC to remove them.. dohh !
I wonder who it would be... :-X
Doc
Seriously? Someone at Zero screwed up and posted technical info on site accessible via the Internet, proprietary info on technology that investors paid $$$ for Zero Engineering to develop, info that competitors can use to hurt Zero. Oops!
Gee, wonder why they took it down.
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Hey guys, i had some images i grabbed before they completly dissapear from the internet!
If i would have known that they could be removed i would have saved all them!
OK.. i thgink i will shut my mouth.. maybe it's some people HERE that discovered that and asked the person that posted them PUBLIC to remove them.. dohh !
I wonder who it would be... :-X
Seriously? Someone at Zero screwed up and posted technical info on site accessible via the Internet, proprietary info on technology that investors paid $$$ for Zero Engineering to develop, info that competitors can use to hurt Zero. Oops!
Gee, wonder why they took it down.
All right, should i remove that?.. it was not written CONFIDENTIAL on any of these documents...
At my work we work withmilitary and aerospace and other high tech secret and ANY of the document we have MUST have the Confidential wrote on ALL pages... so are these pages confidential or not?
I'm serious and i'm asking opinion to everyone here. I like Zero and i dont want to embarasse them as well.
If these document are really confidential informations then please someone inform me, as far as i know i saw nothing indicating that.
Doc
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Hey guys, i had some images i grabbed before they completly dissapear from the internet!
If i would have known that they could be removed i would have saved all them!
OK.. i thgink i will shut my mouth.. maybe it's some people HERE that discovered that and asked the person that posted them PUBLIC to remove them.. dohh !
I wonder who it would be... :-X
Seriously? Someone at Zero screwed up and posted technical info on site accessible via the Internet, proprietary info on technology that investors paid $$$ for Zero Engineering to develop, info that competitors can use to hurt Zero. Oops!
Gee, wonder why they took it down.
All right, should i remove that?.. it was not written CONFIDENTIAL on any of these documents...
At my work we work withmilitary and aerospace and other high tech secret and ANY of the document we have MUST have the Confidential wrote on ALL pages... so are these pages confidential or not?
I'm serious and i'm asking opinion to everyone here. I like Zero and i dont want to embarasse them as well.
If these document are really confidential informations then please someone inform me, as far as i know i saw nothing indicating that.
Doc
A mature company would have lots of policies and internal training to make sure that employees knew how to mark and distribute confidential docs, but I don't think those kinds of processes necessarily exist in a young company like Zero. And I think, while "confidential implies not wanting it to be public", you can't reverse that - lack of labeling simply doesn't indicate anything one way or the other.
So, if you are looking to help Zero out, assume that it was confidential information that you weren't supposed to find. That would certainly correlate with how quickly they took them down...
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I agree with FLAR here. Not sure about where the law stands regarding the onus of putting Confidential on materials versus an implied confidentiality, but if you are at all concerned, I would err on the side of caution. I would think that things like 0-60 speeds are less of an issue than say the battery tech or engine tech data, as the 0-60 speeds are measurable by the user community. Of course, someone who owns the bike could also do an "unboxing" and break it down to learn about it too.
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What bothers me is that (as I recall) they said they were changing to Lithium Polymer batteries in the 2013 models. From what I have learned, in my electric R/C model airplane hobby, those are the most dangerous from a burning standpoint and burn at 3,000 degrees F. It would be very tempting to use them, because they have the highest power density. That's why most R/C fliers use them, but we are very careful with how we treat them.
Trikester
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Looking at the material makes me believe that they are more aimed at informing the press, potential investors or new dealers about the factory's history and current improvements than for providing detailed technical information regarding Zero's technology. The material seems sort of general in nature to me and when I see one of the first pages that discusses the location of the bathrooms (which I never did see during my tour of the Zero factory ;) ), I suspect that this was part of a slide-show presentation and not what we might consider a technical manual. With this information could you duplicate a Zero motorcycle? I don't think I could.
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What bothers me is that (as I recall) they said they were changing to Lithium Polymer batteries in the 2013 models. From what I have learned, in my electric R/C model airplane hobby, those are the most dangerous from a burning standpoint and burn at 3,000 degrees F. It would be very tempting to use them, because they have the highest power density. That's why most R/C fliers use them, but we are very careful with how we treat them.
Trikester
Keep in mind that Lithium Polymer is a general type of lithium ion battery. It does not describe the chemistry.
The EIG C020 prismatic cells (PDF) (http://www.eigbattery.com/eng/product/C020.pdf) in the 2012 bikes are also lithium ion polymer, chemistry NMC.
From Battery University (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/the_li_polymer_battery_substance_or_hype):
To make the modern Li-polymer battery conductive at room temperature, gelled electrolyte is added. All Li-ion polymer cells today incorporate a micro porous separator with moisture. The correct term is “Lithium-ion polymer†(Li-ion polymer or Li-polymer for short). Li-polymer can be built on many systems, such as Li-cobalt, NMC, Li-phosphate and Li-manganese. For this reason, Li-polymer is not considered a unique battery chemistry. Most Li-polymer packs for the consumer market are based on Li-cobalt.
Cell safety is partly chemistry, partly construction.. lithium cobalt cells, like the Dreamliner, are pretty unstable. Most RC lipo is lithium cobalt.
A more stable chemistry, like lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4 or sometimes LiFeMnPO4) or NMC would be significantly safer.
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I agree with FLAR here. Not sure about where the law stands regarding the onus of putting Confidential on materials versus an implied confidentiality, but if you are at all concerned, I would err on the side of caution. I would think that things like 0-60 speeds are less of an issue than say the battery tech or engine tech data, as the 0-60 speeds are measurable by the user community. Of course, someone who owns the bike could also do an "unboxing" and break it down to learn about it too.
Zero yanked the docs right quick. That tells us everything we need to know re the confidentiality of the docs, regardless of markings to that effect.
I doubt anyone at Zero got fired over this but I bet you someone got yelled at.
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Thanks for clearing up the meaning behind the term "li-polymer". So the term polymer just refers to cell construction, not cell chemistry. That's good to know. 8)
Trikester