ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: af1 racing on August 06, 2012, 11:52:48 PM
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Approved in subcommitee, just waiting on full Senate approval.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=49263 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=49263)
http://motorsportsnewswire.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/electric-motorcycle-tax-credit-may-be-extended-0805124/ (http://motorsportsnewswire.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/electric-motorcycle-tax-credit-may-be-extended-0805124/)
AF1 Racing
Zero Motorcycles - Austin, TX
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So this would be a rebate from the Federal Govt? So potentially, someone in say California could double up on rebates from both the state and the feds? Would you apply for it after you bought the bike or would dealers handle it and pass the savings onto buyers since it would apply to all electric vehicles sold? This could be very good for sales. I'm hoping it doesn't turn political. Really though, it's great for business and the environment so there's something for everyone to like, except maybe some taxpayers. It would get me interested in a new bike.
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yes, in some states you could double up. Take the Federal money and the State money. Colorado seems to have the best State deal right now.
It's not clear how the new Federal rebate will be handled--consumer side or dealer side.
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I doubled up when I bought my 2010 DS. A $1500 cash rebate from the state and an income tax credit of $1100 from the feds. However, when I bought the 2012 DS the state rebate had been lowered to $900 and the federal tax credit had gone away completely for lower cost electrics (like ZERO's) :(
If the fed tax credit is brought back I'll ask my tax man if I can still qualify, having bought the 2012 DS in February.
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The earlier federal
rebate credit (thanks Brammofan) for electric motorcycles expired on Dec 31 2011 - for all electric motorcycles, not just low-cost bikes.
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If the fed tax credit is brought back I'll ask my tax man if I can still qualify, having bought the 2012 DS in February.
You should be able to qualify. I think the legislation is an extension of the 2011 fed tax credit to 2012 (emotos purchased in 2012).
To anyone who took advantage of it in 2011; do you know if the formula is
fed tax credit = purchase price * 0.10
Or is it
fed tax credit = (purchase price - state tax credits) * 0.10
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I believe the federal tax is computed before the state credits. The state credits might use a post-federal credit price, but probably not.
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Just to clarify, this is a credit, not a rebate. Assuming it passes, you would apply it to your tax liability for the calendar year in which you purchased your vehicle. You don't get a rebate check. Although, if you are due a refund from the IRS because of overwithholding, it would increase the amount of that refund.
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Yes, I did mention in my post that it was a Federal income tax credit that I received.
Trikester
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Yes, I did mention in my post that it was a Federal income tax credit that I received.
Trikester
I know - there was another culprit involved. Plus, I have found that no matter how many times you mention that it's a credit, people still think it's a rebate or a deduction or that Barack is going to show up on their doorstep with a briefcase full of cash.
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However, it becomes the same as cash, I got $1100 more in my tax rebate. As Ben Franklin said: "A penny saved is a penny earned".
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However, it becomes the same as cash, I got $1100 more in my tax rebate. As Ben Franklin said: "A penny saved is a penny earned".
A penny saved is 1.4 pennies earned depending on what tax bracket you are in. ;)
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I paid full for everything, didn't even get a break on the vehicle license tax that I thought I was going to! If anyone knows of any sort of tax credits or rebates for Arizona they should probably let me know... hehe
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A tax credit is not like a tax deduction. A credit takes that actual amount of money directly off of what you have to pay. An $1100 credit, like I got, reduced my tax bill by $1100, thereby putting $1100 directly back into my wallet. It's like a delayed cash rebate. It doesn't change with bracket. Of course, if you didn't owe at least $1100 then it wouldn't come to you.
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So the tax formula here in Colorado takes into account the possibility of a Federal tax credit; and the formula is non-linear and not obvious. I worked out the numbers today.
Bottom line:
LIST Cost after Colo Credit Cost after Colo+Fed Credit(if approved)
SZF6, $11500 $6621 $6334
SZF9, $14000 $8000 $6896
So the 10% Fed Credit only saves me $290 (I got the ZF6).
If I had known this, I would have gotten the ZF9 instead of the ZF6!
Something for future 2012 Colorado Zero buyers to think about....
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Those Colorado prices are NUTS.
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Speaking of rebates, I have this feeling that I will be getting a 1099 from the organization that sent me my $900 CA EV rebate at the end of this year. If that happens, I will be paying both Federal (about 25%) and CA state (about 7.5%) income taxes on that rebate. The government giveith now and the government takeith away later. :(
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That CA and CO tax rebate does sound good, but TX has a much better deal...no state income tax. It's why I moved here.
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Same here. But I'll still take the federal credit thank you very much :)
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Approved! At least in the finance committee.
$2500
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/08/ev-motorcycle-tax-break/ (http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/08/ev-motorcycle-tax-break/)
-Polartek
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Speaking of rebates, I have this feeling that I will be getting a 1099 from the organization that sent me my $900 CA EV rebate at the end of this year. If that happens, I will be paying both Federal (about 25%) and CA state (about 7.5%) income taxes on that rebate. The government giveith now and the government takeith away later. :(
You are correct. In 2011 I had to pay the Feds tax on my CO state rebate from my 2010 DS purchase in 2010. Still a great deal here in CO!
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I don't know why we would have to pay an income tax on a rebate. As I understand it, a rebate is just a return of some of the money I spent to purchase something, not new income. Maybe the IRS is taking Ban Franklin too literally when he said; "a penny saved is a penny earned". :-\
Trikester
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I don't know why we would have to pay an income tax on a rebate. As I understand it, a rebate is just a return of some of the money I spent to purchase something, not new income. Maybe the IRS is taking Ban Franklin too literally when he said; "a penny saved is a penny earned". :-\
Trikester
Yes, it's not intuitive. But really, a tax rebate (as opposed to a seller's rebate) is not "the return of some of the money spent". Example: If you make $50,000 and pay $5,000 in state income tax; the feds will only tax you on $45,000 so you're not 'double taxed'. Now if the state 'waives' your $5000 state income tax because you bought a Zero; the feds see it like you're not paying any state income tax, and the full $50,000 gets taxed. Contrast this with if you make $50,000, pay $5000 in state income tax, buy a motorcycle and now Zero gives you a $5000 rebate. The feds won't try to tax the $5000 you get from Zero because they see it like it was just a 'discounted price'.
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I figure that if you get a 1099 from someone, you will be paying income taxes on that money. Everything is computerized now and garbage in to the IRS will be garbage out of your wallet. ::)
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In CA the rebate is a cash rebate not a tax rebate. It's like the manufacture's cash rebate you might get on a tool you purchase at the hardware store. It comes from a fund the state set up for this purpose. Maybe the difference is that the state is not the manufacture in this case.
Trikester
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Thanks for doing the Colorado math, Paul. I am glad I decided to wait for the 2013 models to come out. This will make my future purchase so much more affordable with the tax credits. Plus, i am hoping for some of those incremental improvements for 2013 mentioned in the other thread with the CEO survey. ;D
Hope your bike gets fixed soon. Does Grand Prix Motorsports offer any kind of loaner bike for extra long service problems? Might be something to ask about. Other dealerships offer loaner bikes when things are taking far too long.
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Thanks for doing the Colorado math, Paul. I am glad I decided to wait for the 2013 models to come out. This will make my future purchase so much more affordable with the tax credits. Plus, i am hoping for some of those incremental improvements for 2013 mentioned in the other thread with the CEO survey. ;D
Hope your bike gets fixed soon. Does Grand Prix Motorsports offer any kind of loaner bike for extra long service problems? Might be something to ask about. Other dealerships offer loaner bikes when things are taking far too long.
Hey Nukie, something to think about is that the federal tax credit mentioned in this thread is only for purchases in the 2012 calendar year. The best deal might be had by buying a discounted 2012 model later this year (when grand prix is trying to clear the floor for 2013's). Likely we won't know about the federal 2013 tax status until late 2013.
When I dropped my bike off a month ago it wasn't supposed be an 'extra-long' service, so I didn't ask about a loaner. They have a million used ICE bikes, I suspect one of those would be the loaner anyhoo and I'm not interested in that I have my own ICE bike. But if they don't have me on the road by the end of this week I'm going to push for a Zero loaner; or maybe see if they'll buy my broken bike and let me use the funds to buy a new Zero.
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Good point. Car and motorcycle manufacturers offer rebates on last year's model to move them out just when the new-year models come out, but never would they contact you AFTER the sale and say, "guess what, you qualify for this rebate." I guess that's the difference between the govt. and a business. It's all good; however, it might just encourage people to NOT buy the 2013s until and if a tax incentive shows up in late 2013. It should help move any 2012's out there though which would be an immediate boost to sales, then hopefully the 2013s will blow us all away and we will want to pay full price, forget the tax incentive, for the new Zero.
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Hey Nukie, something to think about is that the federal tax credit mentioned in this thread is only for purchases in the 2012 calendar year.
To the best of my understanding, the proposed credit would cover bikes purchased in 2012 and 2013. Once Congress gets back from their vacation we'll see if it survives the next round of legislation.
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I get a real queasy feeling when someone says we have to depend upon Congress to get anything done or make any decisions during an election year. :o
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To the best of my understanding, the proposed credit would cover bikes purchased in 2012 and 2013. Once Congress gets back from their vacation we'll see if it survives the next round of legislation.
Good catch! I think you are correct. The original legislation was for 2 years, so this should be the same.
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Any news yet? When should we expect some movement on this bill?
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I don't think "movement" and "Congress" are two words that fit in the same sentence. ::)
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Some discussion (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=1491.msg12759#msg12759) on the Brammo Forum.
"Family and Business Tax Cut Certainty Act of 2012", S.3521, was last discussed in the senate on 9/19, and a motion to proceed to consideration was withdrawn. 1 of the 3 dissenting senators on the Finance Committee has retired .. but it seems somewhat unlikely to me that the bill will be picked back up.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s3521 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s3521)
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:s.3521: (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:s.3521:)
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So if it's not passed by the end of 2012; does that mean there'll never be a fed tax credit for us 2012 buyers?
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I wouldn't count on one.
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All I am counting on is that I will have to pay state and federal taxes on the $900 EV rebate that I received when I bought my 2012 Zero. :(
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I think that the Gov't is trying to shave every dollar it can in order to save us from the fiscal cliff. If there becomes a tax credit, it would probably happen in 2014 or later.
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I think that the Gov't is trying to shave every dollar it can in order to save us from the fiscal cliff.
Emoto credits are TINY! 0.0004% of JUST the 2012 defense budget = all 2012 emoto tax credits :o
$778,600,000,000 Social Security
$716,300,000,000 Defense
$579,600,000,000 Income Security
$484,500,000,000 Medicare
$361,600,000,000 Health
$224,300,000,000 Debt Interest
<insert about 1000 other things here>
$ 3,000,000 Extension of credit for 2- or 3-wheeled plug-in electric vehicles. (ave $1,500/bike * 2000 bikes/year)
Cutting emoto credits to save $ is a little like saying you're going to turn the heat down by one degree for 10 minutes this month to save $ because your mortgage is 3 months behind.
I know, the "S. 3521: Family and Business Tax Cut Certainty Act of 2012" is a conglomerate of dozens of porky things costing much more than $3M. Still, it irks me.
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I don't think "movement" and "Congress" are two words that fit in the same sentence. ::)
Depends on what kind of "movement" you are talking about :)
Unfortunately, even though this credit is not even a drop of water in the ocean that is the federal budget, it is something that only a small number of people will complain about if it is dropped. I don't see it surviving.