ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: BSDThw on July 15, 2012, 12:57:27 PM
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I open this new Post, because we spreed out some information in different Posts.
Maybe we can collect information.
Topic: Possibility to use the 28 sprocket for a DS 2012 => it is mentioned in the manual.
1) Do we need a different belt (length)?
Thanks Harlan for answering ( I guess you did this already for customers?)
You do not need to change the belt. The same one will work for both size sprockets.
2) How to remove the sprocket? It is very close to the swing pivot nut. Move the motor or remove the swing arm, is there a better option? (Harlan maybe you are willing to share experience, not all of use have a nearby dealer)
3) What about the speedometer? As I see the data is collected from motor-rotation calculated with gearing. Therefore it should have a setting possibility SW / HW?
4) Wheel difference between S vs DS. I guess the “higher†DS tire compensate the 16'' to 17''. I didn't calculate it but optically it looks like.
5) Has someone a price for the sprocket.
6) Different acceleration (experiences)
You are all welcome to share experiences, information ore add more points.
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I converted my 2012 DS to chain dive. To change the motor shaft sprocket I removed the swing arm. It is not difficult but be sure to loosen the tiny metric set screws that are in the flats of the big nuts. One in each nut.
I've also had the swing arms off of both my 2010 DS & my 2012 DS when I converted the rear wheel to a 17" rim and tire. It may be a little confusing at first but it is not difficult.
Trikester
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Hey Trikester,
what have you done with the speedometer? ( or is the ratio you use original )
An off-topic question: what is the reason for your 17'' conversions?
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To remove the motor, it is not necessary to remove the swingarm. It is easier to do with an extra set of hands.
-Disconnect all the motor wires (make note of which phase wire is which. They should be labeled with dots.)
-Remove the rear wheel
-Remove the rear shock
-Lift the swingarm as high as you can (be careful not to force the swingarm against the frame towards the pivot point)
-Remove the motor by pulling it back and below the swingarm
To recalibrate the speedo.
-Start up the bike and wait for the speedo to complete its self test.
-Hold down both the adjust and select buttons for 5 seconds until the display shows a 4 digit number followed by a 2 digit number.
-Scroll through the digits using the select button and change them using the adjust button.
As an example, to calibrate the speed if you are going from a 28 tooth pulley to a 25 tooth pulley, you will multiply the 4 digit number by 25/28 and enter that as the new value.
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If trikester wants to make sure his speed is accurate with the larger tire, he would need to increase the value of the 4 digit number proportionally to the circumference of the old tire.
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Also, I should mention, the difference in acceleration is noticeable but not dramatic in my opinion. I prefer the 25 tooth sprocket.
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Cheers Harlan1
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Many Thanks Harlan,
it is always got to have an expert on board.
I am sorry that you are to far away, would be nice to stop by at your shop.
Still unsure if I go for a 28 sprocket, maybe Zero will once give allowance to increase torque at lower speed. Than my decision would be 28 for sure.
The recalibration of the speedo is nice, hope we don't have now lots of over 100 miles stories :D
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To take the swingarm off the 2012 you MUST take the motor out first. The 10mm allen bolts accessable from the outside of the swingarm pivot points, despite being rather large, can not handle the torque the bolt is put in at even with the tiny set screws removed. The 24mm nut on the back is what you need. Lol, unfortunately I thought I could leave the motor in and take the swing arm off. Don't do this, trust me.
Also when removing the motor which is rather simple, in addition to the 3 phase wires with dirrerent numbers of dots on them, remember to undo the thermistor wire connector before taking the last bolt out, especially if you are doing it by yourself. ;) Having done it once now, the second time should take less than 10 min. the first time took me hours.
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(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/382374_456013421083327_39080770_n.jpg)
I'm about to leave to go to a seminar from the Central Florida Clean Cities Coalition to discuss the future of electric transportation. One of the main speakers with ChargePoint contacted me about speaking about my recent 1700 mile roadtrip during his speech today. Unfortunately I will not have the bike ready in time to display it for everyone. :(
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I'm about to leave to go to a seminar from the Central Florida Clean Cities Coalition to discuss the future of electric transportation. One of the main speakers with ChargePoint contacted me about speaking about my recent 1700 mile roadtrip during his speech today. Unfortunately I will not have the bike ready in time to display it for everyone. :(
What are you doing to it now? Zero ought to hire you as an engineer, lol.
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Hey Corey, I'm changing the 28 tooth to a 25 tooth for better acceleration since im carrying more weight now. I had a drive belt snap from a branch that somehow got between the belt and rear sprocket and must have stretched it more than it could handle is the best I can gather. I really don't know except there were some impregnated leaves around the broken belt. So it seemed like a good time to do a few other things as well.
Despite not having my motorcycle there today, they stil included me in their presentation lol, I missed the first half because I didn't think to record it till it was almost over. The installers were interested in my charging habits and where I thought they should put their next stations. I told them Restaurants! Resturants! Resturants less than 1/2 mile off major freeways. There are a lack of both of those, and that is what the industry needs.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/24056467 (http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/24056467)
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http://ustre.am/:1CZmL (http://ustre.am/:1CZmL)
pretty crappy video quality with Ustream but switched motor sprocket, shows swingarm out and broken drive belt
Pointers, remember there is a 2 mm set screw on the motor sprocket keyway. Remove the shock, lift the swingarm, drop the motor out the bottom, use a 24mm wrench or socket on the inside and a 10 mm allen head on the outside to hold the swingarm bolt from spinning. I can't believe how light the swingarm is! Like 1/4 the weight of any other swing arm i've ever felt!!!
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Hey Corey, I'm changing the 28 tooth to a 25 tooth for better acceleration since im carrying more weight now
::) You are not talking of this nice slim girls on the photo you have posted ;D
Cheers
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I had no trouble taking the swing arm off without removing the motor. I don't know why one of the replies said to not consider that. I've removed a swing arm four times now and never removed a motor. I think that would be a lot more trouble. I did decide to buy the 24mm wrench, however and I cut the handle down to make reaching the nuts easier. I didn't do that the first time, when I used an adjustable wrench that was shorter handled.
17" wheel change: In reply to BSDThw: I changed to a 17" rear wheel so that I had a choice of street legal tires that were better for dirt riding. The tire manufacturers must assume that if you have a 16" rear wheel you must be riding pavement most of the time, because that is what those available 16" dual-sport tires are designed for. The 17" wheel allows me to use a Kenda model K270 on the rear as well as the front (which was already 17"). I have a K270, 5.1" x 17" on the rear and a K270, 4.6" x 17" on the front. And they work well on the pavement also, but I'm sure the knobbies must reduce mileage some, since the factory tires are so much smoother.
A lot of dirt riding dual-sport guys (who also use the K270's) have recognized the tires on my DS and praised them, thinking that the bike came from the factory equipped that way. Then I tell them what i did. 8)
Speedometer: I didn't have to re-calibrate when I changed to the larger wheel and tire. It just worked out that the larger diameter compensated for the reading error that the speedo had. I had measured it with my GPS prior to changing the wheel and tire and it was reading a little high. I had also changed to chain drive as soon as I got the 2012 DS, and lowered the gearing a little (better for dirt) at that time, which may have been the reason for the initial higher readings. After the wheel & tire change I noticed that it compared closely with the GPS. Lucky break for me. ;D
BTW - When I was changing the gearing, while going to chain drive, I knew that I would be going to the 17" wheel and tire in the near future so I factored that into my gearing calculations. I have posted this before; I don't ride dirt with a belt drive. One little rock or a stick, as someone posted an experience, and you are stranded in the "boonies". :o I carry chain repair equipment and I don't have to take the bike apart, and use a jack, to remove and replace a chain. One less thing to worry about on the fun rides. :) Downside, of course, is chain noise. :(
Trikester
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trikester, how did you get to the nuts to break them loose? mine were on with loc-tite and my 24 mm wrench was to thick to slide between the clearance available. Did you get to it from underneath? i put the motor in this morning in less than 10 min. So either way I guess, I tried to hold the nuts still and break them loose with the 10mm allen and it spun the insides of the bolt round :(. After the motor was out, a 24mm wrench with 2 foot extension handle and it still felt like about 50 to 75 pounds of force I needed at the end if not more, so over 150-200 ft lbs to break the loc-tite glue.
Although I didn't reinstall loctite or the set screws cause knowing myself, I'll have the bike apart again in a month or so to play with more sprocket changes. So next time I'm gonna try it your way. :)
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17" wheel change: In reply to BSDThw: I changed to a 17" rear wheel so that I had a choice of street legal tires that were better for dirt riding. The tire manufacturers must assume that if you have a 16" rear wheel you must be riding pavement most of the time, because that is what those available 16" dual-sport tires are designed for. The 17" wheel allows me to use a Kenda model K270 on the rear as well as the front (which was already 17"). I have a K270, 5.1" x 17" on the rear and a K270, 4.6" x 17" on the front. And they work well on the pavement also, but I'm sure the knobbies must reduce mileage some, since the factory tires are so much smoother.
Hi all,
how about simply changing an S to dirt tyres ? both wheels are 17" for a start. At least on my now 2011S (after 2010S) I can consider this. Ok, slightly shorter suspension but for Dual Sport dirt the S seems well enough capable.
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There was some loctite on them but I was able to break them loose, after mild heating with a propane torch, and with a short extension on the wrench handle. Did you have the set screws backed out? I was careful heating so that I didn't get them hot enough to damage the bearings. However, these bearings are not as critical as bearings on a high speed rotating shaft. I inspected the bearings before re-assembly.
I worked from the back with the wheel off of course and the bike jacked up. Everything had been removed from the swing arm including the shock before I started removing the pivot bolts.
I'm surprised that the "S" has 17" wheels, as you say. I thought it had 16" both front and rear. The specks I have read in the past have listed 16" for the "S". Maybe they changed, but it is strange that they wouldn't change the DS if they did change the S. If the S has a 17" rear wheel then it means that is also has a different swing arm than the DS, because the DS swing arm can't fit a 17" without cutting away some of the cross brace tube, which is what I did. Possibly, a 17" would fit with a really low profile road tire. I notice that my 2012 DS has a flat on that side of the cross brace tube that my 2010 does not have. Maybe that flat allowed a 17" rim with a low profile street tire to fit on the S where a high, 17" knobbie, tire wouldn't fit on a DS without the mod that I did.
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Hi trikster
front and rear 17" on the 2011 model. Improved cornering and handling in general as well as better tyre choice over the 2010 that had only 16" front and rear.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/2011/specs.php (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/2011/specs.php)
obviously converting a S towards dual sport means to think about the belt drive and the front fender. On the 2011S we have still spoked wheels - somehow I believe that is favoured for dual sport as well.
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Thanks. I didn't notice that when they went to the "rigid spoke" rims that they were also 17". These wouldn't work on the DS with tall knobbies and an un-modified swing arm. I hope ZERO produces a new swing arm in 2013 with clearance for a good dual-sport dirt tire (like the K270) on a 17" wire spoked rim. If they do, then I will purchase the new arm - if it is compatible with the 2012 mounting and frame. 8)
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Hi trikester
yeah - as for upgradability the frame, front fork, swingarm seems to be pretty consistent throughout the model generations so far. so in part the initial objective that you can upgrade still holds.
obviously would like to put the better battery and motor/controller into my 2011 at one stage -- likely to be hard or expensive "upgrade".
cheers