ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Doctorbass on April 28, 2012, 11:22:06 AM
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Just use these info as OEM reference in case you play with the program and dont remember the stock parameters ;)
These are parameters of the STOCK zero DS 2011 and probably the same as for the S 2011 too and also few previous model
The controlle ris a AXE4855 ( 48V 500A) fab date: 28 Feb2011
Doc
(http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=81853)
(http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=81854)
(http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=81855)
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Hi DrBass
Great info. Now step by step as i have not done this. Pls confirm.
1. Get the controller Software from the alltrax website. Free download.
2. Get a cable or make one up to connect computer with Zero. What type of cable and where on the bike does it Plug into?
3. Download and backup OEM settings
4. Adjust settings. Can this be done with bike "idle" ? Ie just power on but motor not turning.
5. Settings to improve "of the line accel".
Tom
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Before making any changes, it is prudent to elevate the rear wheel. Honestly, from my experience, changing the controller parameters doesn't have as great an effect as changing the values in the Main Bike Board.
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Before making any changes, it is prudent to elevate the rear wheel. Honestly, from my experience, changing the controller parameters doesn't have as great an effect as changing the values in the Main Bike Board.
So did you ever played with the main bike board setting?
When i removed teh plastic cover ( normally positionned at teh "gas tank" location, i found what look like the ECU (brain)of the system and it look like there is a connector similar to an OBD2 ?
so i guess it require special tool to communicate with it right?
Sorry for the overexposure of the pictures.. ::)
(http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=81940)
(http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=81941)
Doc
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Hi DrBass
Great info. Now step by step as i have not done this. Pls confirm.
1. Get the controller Software from the alltrax website. Free download.
2. Get a cable or make one up to connect computer with Zero. What type of cable and where on the bike does it Plug into?
3. Download and backup OEM settings
4. Adjust settings. Can this be done with bike "idle" ? Ie just power on but motor not turning.
5. Settings to improve "of the line accel".
Tom
Best is to follow the instruction about the controller software ;)
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Oh, how I wish someone had done this kind of "hacking" with the Brammo Enertia.
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does this allow you to change the regen braking for economy and sports mode?
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AFAIK the 2011 bikes did not have a regen mode.
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lol , missed that
so different controller in 2012?
can see where it does regen but not econo / sport switch setting.
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@firepower
The new 2012 bikes have a Sevcon. You'll need someone with the right setup to change those for you. I do not recommend anybody try to change any controller settings themselves. If you are in the LA area, we can help you with that.
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my 2011 alltrax controller - axe4855 seems to be stuck in programming mode. solid red led. anyone know how to get it out of programming mode?
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Hi ECowboy
guess you have the manual of the controller.
http://www.alltraxinc.com/Doc_Depot.html (http://www.alltraxinc.com/Doc_Depot.html)
in case not, the red LED might have several meanings:
LED Blink Codes:
At power up the number of green blinks indicates the configured throttle type:
1 Green = 0-5k
2 Green = 5k-0
3 Green = 0-5V
4 Green = EZ-GO inductive (ITS)
5 Green = Yamaha 0-1K
6 Green = Taylor-Dunn 6-10.5V
7 Green = CLUBCAR 5K-0, 3-wire
Normal display status:
Solid Green: Controller ready to run
Solid Red: Controller in programming mode
Solid Yellow: Controller throttle is wide open, controller is supplying max
output, and is not in current limit.
Error code display:
Number of RED blinks indicates any error conditions that might exist.
1 Red = Throttle Position Sensor Over Range. Check for open wires.
2 Red = Under Temperature. Controller below -25C.
3 Red = HPD. Throttle hasn't gone to zero during this power on cycle.
4 Red = Over Temperature. Controller over 95C.
5 Red = unused for series controllers.
6 Red = Battery Under Voltage detected. Battery V < undervoltage slider.
7 Red = Battery Over Voltage detected. Battery V > overvoltage slider.
Errors are self clearing when the fault is corrected.
basic items, such as PC connection having the bike on and running when making changes etc... I only seen a 2010 DS being programmed some time ago. have not done anything myself though.
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yeah, right now it is solid red which is why I think it is stuck in programming mode. I cant connect to t unless it is green status, so I am a little SOL at the moment, but I am trying to see if removing it from the bikes power source will help. Possibly discharge? we shall see.
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just call alltrax - the boost on their website that they give feedback/assist. with the Zeros (2011 and pre) we should be a big enough crowd to ask for help sometimes.
as with the sevcon on 2012 -- they go to bed with everyone -- now "big" announcement with Brammo --- then again ... just it just seems to try to keep the vapour bike in the press, next we get the tires, then the suspension, gearbox. anyone to release some info to get the name know.... sadly not helping to get the numbers on the street.
the latest Audi car magazine states that over a million EVs will be on Germanys streets by 2020.... wondering if they mean E-Ducatis ?
:)
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just it just seems to try to keep the vapour bike in the press
Are you talking about the Empulse? Production bikes have been revealed, and Empulse R will supposedly start shipping to owners in June.
Calling Empulse vapor at this point is like calling the 2012 Zero bikes vapor back in December.
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Alltrax confirmed it is stuck in programming mode. They said to send it to them and they would re-set it for me.
FYI for anyone that has this happen in the future, I either pulled out my serial before communication was done, or powered down the controller while it was still communicating.
Glad it's not fried though :)
just it just seems to try to keep the vapour bike in the press
Are you talking about the Empulse? Production bikes have been revealed, and Empulse R will supposedly start shipping to owners in June.
Calling Empulse vapor at this point is like calling the 2012 Zero bikes vapor back in December.
We are in a state right now where we don't really know if the empulse is vapor or not. I could be delivered, or it could be just another party launch bike. It would be great to see some photos of the bikes in production. Just saying, you know, I was all excited about the empulse 2 years ago. I really really hope it is not vapor, but I am jaded about it.
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Nice customer support from Alltrax : )
I would have agreed about the indefinite state of the Empulse three months ago. Lack of communication from Brammo and a bedgrudging acceptance of impossible pricing targets are why I bought the S.
Now? We have production specs, production bikes live in the flesh, and presumably bikes going out for review as we speak. No bikes are in customer hands yet, and certainly Brammo has earned a bad rap for making vague delivery promises and failing to deliver. It's certainly possible they could continue to slip delivery schedules .. and it certainly sounds like they will slowly ramp up production.
However, can you honestly not see the distinction between "well, we're going to ship next summer, here's our (wildly optimistic) pricing targets" and "here are the production specs, here's the production bike (go on... touch it!), we will have bikes in reviewer hands and start shipping in limited quantities next month"?
There's a continuum between vaporware and production bikes, and Brammo is pretty far into the production side of that continuum.
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Any further e motorcycles will help the cause and advance the field. I am just a bit challenged when 1. Marketing takes over and keeps sending messages that at stages can not be supported by real products. Yes we have the Empulse R now. A premium model so far only.
2. A company gets lost in engineering, improving etc etc. ev tech is resonably fast evolving and one can get caught on improving over and over. Yet this does not help to get the real world feedback with a solid version 1
Anyway just my thoughts and i dont have the challenge Brammo or Zero have on that scale in my projects.
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my 2011 alltrax controller - axe4855 seems to be stuck in programming mode. solid red led. anyone know how to get it out of programming mode?
if you read the manual of the Picoamps Alltrax torque module you get further down in the document the recommendation on how to program the Alltrax controller including possible comms risks that cause it to freeze/hang ("hang-up"). Only back to factory can reset .... as Electric Cowboy found out by now.
http://www.automotive.picoamps.de/en/products_more_en.htm (http://www.automotive.picoamps.de/en/products_more_en.htm)
http://www.automotive.picoamps.de/doc/TorqueModuleALLTRAX.pdf (http://www.automotive.picoamps.de/doc/TorqueModuleALLTRAX.pdf)
Now with the torque module in combination with the Alltrax controller can we get the 2011 and prior modules off the line accelaration improved at all ? Or is it just used to smoothen and "reduce" this ?
EDIT/added: @Harlan, u mentioned changing the settings of the main board ? how to do this and happy to drop into LA ... just 15,000 miles (or so) away across the water and guess no charging along hte way. remote sessions ?
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hi all,
is anyone considering to re-program the AXE on the 2011 or 2010 models ? Got feedback from picoamps that the mainboard does not do much on performance and main gain is within the AXE controller. With that I am considering as well to add the picoamp bits.
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I'm not sure how familiar Picoamps is with the 2011 Zero S, but I know Electric Cowboy can attest to the fact that there are parameters in the main bike board that will affect your performance. You can raise your max current setting in the Alltrax from 90%-100%, which will give you a slight improvement. But the throttle curves in the MBB by default are limiting the rate at which the controller is told to accelerate to provide a smoother ride.
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Sorry for the late reply... but I have been busy making history :) yeeehaw!
Yes, the controller can give you a slight boost it seems, but as Harlan Mentioned earlier in the thread, the MBB is really where the 2011's high voltage viagra lives.
It seems to me that finding the right combination of throttle ramp (on the mbb, the controller should be set to its max of 15), peak voltage and scale are very important.
While I can't wheelie my 2011 yet... I have managed to get some good off the line acceleration, and a much higher top speed.
I will be releasing a hardware & software package to implement various settings on the mbb soon. This includes my personal race setting. After that, I will be starting on the 2012 version.
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Hi. Great news. I am currently not making any changes due to warranty and it seems some occasional motor growl or cut outs while accelarating. Want to root cause these first. Spoke to a Zero MX racer that has tuned the whole package to great performance. He is very fond of the Agni and Alltrax. He mentioned he effectively re-tigthened the motor and with his other mods wins races, nothing heating up majorly etc.
As for getting more accellaration - if we got the various settings changed i am interested how heavy it hits your range! It might well be that this is regulated so far down to gain range.
My 2011 does about 50km range til zero bars with slowish (45mPh and lower with some hills and as Richard230 says sticking to the speed limit ). Not to great. Same as my 2010 did. The issue is that i believe the controller or motor is not fully ok with the intermittent problems and thus i use mOre battery.
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Clearly this is an old thread, but I'm looking for the OEM alltrax settings for the 2011 DS. Seems like it should be in the first post, but there's no info there. Maybe it was photos that are no longer linked?
Anyone have the OEM setting info?
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Hi Adam. If your biggest question is about which Low Voltage Cut Off you can set to get the normal OEM behavior of the motorcycle, I woudl say the lowest as possible. The reason is that the Throttle Overide wire from the MBB is already taking care of that ( temperature, Battery voltage, current, etc) and when one of these value exceed the normal max limit then it will affect the throttle input of the motor controller. In other words, the throttle signal on the 2009 to 2011 is not directly connected to the motor controller but it goes thru the MBB that "filter it" before continuing to the controller. That "filter" is all kid of protection and limit that the bike has to respect ;)
But wait.. I think i took some screen shot of my 2011 DS in the past ;)
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Here are the images you are looking for my friend!
Doc
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Thanks for the screenshots, Doc! That's exactly what I was looking for!
You're saying that playing with the settings in the controller won't have much effect since the MBB manages everything? I was having an issue where it felt like the bike's speed was being limited and thought maybe it was because the Max Output Current was set at 90% instead of 100%. But it looks like the stock setting is supposed to be 90%, and based on what you just said about the MBB, that would indicate that the MBB is limiting my speed for some reason and not the controller.
One day I was trying to hit the top speed of the bike (supposedly 108km/h) and attempted to do this while going down a steep hill. Not only did I not achieve this speed, but it felt like the motor was slowing me down despite gravity being in my favour. I was maxing out at 90km/h.
Wait, that one photo is of an OEM wiring diagram! That's so helpful! Where did you get that?!
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Hi Adam
I am working off these
Got them online
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Hello Zap mc, Do you have the link where you got these online? they seem to be diferent than the online Zero service manual if i remember correctly.
Doc
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Hi Doc
Ironically it was on here! ( somewhere a link ) but I can’t remember sorry l
Been doing some research on the old (pre 2012) Zero wiring and want to run a theory past you to see if you agree
Apart from the battery temp and BMS cell balancing there are only Two other functions on the BMS board which are located on a separate connector block
1) battery interlock
Where a feed from the charger stops the bike being driven away for safety reasons
( this is why you can’t start it when it is charging )
2) Battery Temp sensor ( small brown and black wires from separate connector on the bMS )
Feeds back to the MBB to tell it battery temp ( maybe cut off if too hot )
This is the small extra twin connector on the Zero X & MX batteries
This can ( apparently ?) be shorted across to fool the MBB ?
*anyone remember the battery “DONGLE” zero made
Function of the MBB
Regulates the bike and calls the solenoid into action when all parameters are correct like temp, key switch, stand, motor temp.
Shows charge and blink Fault codes and solid green for armed, prompts battery to do double chirp for armed status
Generally the MBB is there to FOOL the Alltrax controller with reduced throttle input to limit performance and speed depending on which of the two switches is depressed
Do you agree?
Anything to add
Has anyone communicated with the bMS via the 8 pin connector ?