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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Iowa on March 21, 2011, 11:10:08 PM
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Hello!
I'm interested in the Zero S/DS (mainly because they seem to be the only e-bikes with belt drives).
I've only seen a few descriptions of the commutes people have been taking. Regarding range, could I get some advice on this commute?
34 miles total round-trip, flat terrain (Iowa)
One-way trip:
3 miles @ 55 mph (back-highway approaching city)
5 miles @ 45 mph (back-highway approaching city)
9 miles @ 35 mph (urban stop-n-go)
I can charge-up at work, but I'd like to be able to do the whole loop on a single charge.
Thanks in advance,
James
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I don't think you can do it. Would just be a few miles under but might make it on limp. Even just a 1 hour charge would get you home. I do not own a DS. so I shouldnt comment but I did.
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From the magazine road tests that I have read, I think your commute is doable. The flat ground is helpful, but the variable would be if you had to run against the wind. I hear it can get pretty windy in Iowa. Running 34 miles, half against a strong headwind, might leave you pushing. Charging up at work would be a smart idea on windy days - unless of course you live somewhere where the wind always is at your back. ;D
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James,
Although ideally you would charge up at work, I don't think you would have any problem making round trip commute without charging. Zero has a very helpful website with a few different scenarios to illustrate exactly what to range to expect.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/ (http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/)
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Hi Iowa,
should be fine. I have a similar commute -- just in km's not miles. After round trip charge is good half full and that is the 2010 model. I have additionally uphill sections at good speed.
I cannot charge up at work and have done the commute plus some further site trips during the day all no problem.
Seems that their guidance of 50 miles / 80kms is about right.
then - how aggressive will you ride ? This will make a big difference. If you go full speed up to a traffic light and then brake last second or race the other bikes/cars of the line you use much more ...
what is great with the Zero is that once up to speed it rolls a long way as no motor braking etc... so you can manage the range quite flexible.
In any case -- it is a lot fun riding it.
cheers
Tom
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Thanks for all the replies! I thought my commute might be right on the edge of the range. Zero's range scenarios did leave me optimistic. (I hadn't thought about the "natural wind," aside from just going 55mph.) The link that Harlan posted is great because of the data they add to back it up. I'd like to see more e-bike owners, of all brands, do something similar to help us prospective owners. I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to track their metrics with that much detail. I'd like to get a Zero, and I intend to create something to help out in this manner. Gathering info is especially tough with all the brands, all the models, the different years they have been available, and the different options within a given year.
Last night I just watched the one-hour Google Tech Talk with Neal Saiki(from 2009) on YouTube. Someone posted this in another thread. It was promising to hear that he designed the bike to be upgradable. So I'm guessing worst case is in the meantime I charge up at work and be careful on weekend errands, etc. Then a couple years from now I get a battery-pack upgrade.
That's a great video BTW. He covered a lot of design points, like "why a brushed motor instead of brushless?" His overall presentation made me feel a lot better about Zero versus the other brands I've been considering.
Thanks again!
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Hi Iowa
don't want to make you worried but I am yet to find out how to upgrade from my Zero S 2010 to items from the 2011 model. Guess if I end up needing a new battery I will find out. In terms of size it will fit. electronics etc. not sure.
You might quiz Zero on upgrades and what this in particular entails.
The bike is fun to commute with, ride around, and the 2011 models add a lot of missing items - belt drive, 17" tires, better battery pack, controls displays. Would love to "upgrade" to all of these but guess I need to try and trade-in when the bikes come out in Australia eventually.
cheers
T
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Iowa if you do get an Electric bike check out the Cycle Analyst + Analogger. I have the Cycle Analyst on my bike but no logging device yet. It makes it easy to be stingy on the power. http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml (http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml)
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While on the topic of range, does anyone have any experience with range for offroad trail riding? I looked at the link above for Zero's range info. No info for offroad. The factors of elevation gain and not smooth ground hurt range, but the slow speeds, under 25mph should help range. I am still left guessing. Seems like less info and not many bike updates on the offroad side. Kind of gives me the idea that maybe they are planning to drop their offroad lines.
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I've done a little light trail riding and found that it seemed to use slightly less power per km than riding on the road, but I was riding on flat hard surfaces and very slowly. Really mountain bike speed rather than m/c speed. I found that I needed to ride at 20-25 km/h to stop the fan coming on. Any slower seemed to overheat the motor enough to start the fan.
=:)
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...don't want to make you worried but I am yet to find out how to upgrade from my Zero S 2010 to items from the 2011 model...
The word from Phil about what I would think would be the *simplest* upgrade, getting the standard fitment front tyre is basically, no. "With regards to the front tire it might be worth giving Graeme Boyd a call at Suzuki Newcastle (02) 4952 1577 and ask him what type of tire he fitted to the front of a Zero DS that He recently sold. We had another guy with the same request and found this to be a better local solution."
I've emailed Duro dist in Australia to see if they can help as it's not a listed size. I really feel that with Neal gone and his vision for modular upgradable bikes apparently gone with him we (early adopters) are going to be left out in the cold.
I wonder how you'd go if you buy a 2011 bike, the standard tyre size is (as far as I can tell) completely unavailable in a dual sport pattern and changing the size to something different may void your insurance.
Brammo on the other hand gives current owners a 2500 discount off the new version. They don't sell here in Australia but in the USA that discount is applied as a rebate, after the federal government one. So you get the full 10% federal rebate plus any state rebates as well. That would be enough that many owners could sell second hand, upgrade and have nothing out of pocket. Basically swap an old bike for a new one for nothing.
http://www.brammo.com/press-releases/articles.php?lang=fr (http://www.brammo.com/press-releases/articles.php?lang=fr)
Enertia to Enertia Plus
Enertia customers will be eligible for a Brammo loyalty rebate of $2500 when purchasing the Enertia Plus during 2011
Of course if you live in Oklahoma you don't even need to sell the old one. Buy a new Enertia Plus and pay only 1098.
http://brammofan.wordpress.com/tag/tax-incentives/ (http://brammofan.wordpress.com/tag/tax-incentives/)
it makes me want to cry....
=:)
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the Zero so far is fun fun fun to ride with. the 16 inch wheel makes it corner quite nice. Ok, no idea yet how to get a new tire. I worry when it is time. will get my dealer to deliver or just order from the US directly.
had a guy on a HUUGGE BMW cruiser with his stereo on and microphone helmet stop next to me and being way interested... so a second bike to all of these !
so if you can do the commute with it - Jdo it
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I think the Buell Blast used a 16" wheel and some mid-1980's motorcycles did also. Then too, there are some big-wheel scooters, such as made by Aprilia, that use 16" wheels - I think. My guess is that if you need to replace your tires, you should be able to track down some 16" tires, but it may require some digging, as they are not too popular and typically not advertised in magazines or most motorcycle accessory catalogs.
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I emailed Duro in Australia,
"Hi Guys,
The Zero DS 2011 model shows Duro tyres in size 100/80-17 front and
110/90-16. I don't know which version they are as they're not marked
on my tyres, but the tread pattern looks like what your brochure calls
"Median" and what the Duro website calls HF-904 Median. The web site
shows the 110/90-16 but not the 100/80-17, the brochure shows neither...
Do you or can you bring in these sizes?"
Their response was:
"Unfortunately those sizes are not currently imported, at this point there are no
plans to bring those sizes in."
Sadly the 16 inch front wheeled bikes were all road bikes, so there are no dual sport options for them. However it's the front that's the real issue. I haven't found any dual sport tyres in 100/80-17 or 3.50-17 size.
Zero now lists the 16 inch rear for the 2010 DS as a spare part. It's an eye watering 197.05. For a 16 inch dual sport tyre from Taiwan... Compare that with a similar size, the 130/90-16 (that might fit... or might not, there's not much clearance to the mudguard) at $75.27, just over a third of the price. The 110/90-16 should be cheaper than that.
http://www.bikebandit.com/duro-hf904-median-motorcycle-tire (http://www.bikebandit.com/duro-hf904-median-motorcycle-tire)
Bike bandit don't export outside the USA.
Whatever the issues with tyres, it seems to be a symptom of a problem with spares and upgrades. That's the real issue here. If my experience with tyres is an indicator for other parts the spares are either twice the right price or unavailable.
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It occurs to me that the Kawasaki 250 Ninja up to 2007 (or whenever its latest redesign was) used 16 inch tires. That should be a pretty big market, as that bike was quite popular. Therefore there should be a source of relatively decent tires available from some manufacturer to keep these customers happy. Perhaps calling your local Kawasaki dealer's parts department might set you off in the right direction to find a source for 16 inch tires.
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100/80-16 front and 130/80-16 rear are the sizes for the Kawasaki.
The DS should really have dualsport tyres but the Kawasaki is a road bike. So they're not much use. As well they're the wrong size for the DS which has 3.50-17 front and 110/80-16 rear. The front won't fit at all but the rear could probably squeeze on. It's an acceptable size for the rim but it's not certain that the tyre would clear the mudguard mounts. They're not right for the S either which uses 110/70-16 and 140/70-16.
I've found possible road and off road tyres for the DS albeit rather narrow. (too narrow to be legal on that rim) Off road at 70/100-17 (intended for junior motorcross). 90/100-16 (again junior motorcross) for the rear, but I doubt that a 100% aspect ratio knobbie would go under the mudguard mount. They're both too narrow to be legal. On road there are a few 17's intended for the front of sportbikes that would fit. There's a michelin Pilot Sporty in 90/80-17 that would be legal for the front and a 120/80-16 that would likely fit on the rear. However they're basically cut slicks...
Which makes me think, perhaps I could just buy a tyre groover and make dualsport tyres... It's an expensive experiment at 750 dollars to try it out.
http://www.amanstoyshop.com.au/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=211 (http://www.amanstoyshop.com.au/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=211)
=:)
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Hi Iowa
I just posted my latest experience on range with the 2010 Zero S model in range,gearing etc.. One should get in mixed situation that you describe the 30+ miles roundtrip. However, I would not be able to make the stated 50 miles range as per Zero's specs. It is as well a consideration that you do not want to drain the battery close to empty every day on your commute - might shorten the battery life significantly. Better to charge at work or so.
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Thanks, it sounds like I might still be right on the edge for range.
I tripped over someone's Zero blog last night, but I can't find it. For some reason it sees like it was an Aussie, and I thought maybe it was yours(?). Let me know..
Also, are you using the "Cycle Analyst" picasso posted about? There are four variations, so I'm waiting to get my bike before I order one.
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I figured out the Aussie Zero blog I tripped over was in gasdive's signature line:
http://zerods.blogspot.com/ (http://zerods.blogspot.com/)
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I just picked up a used DS that had 1400 miles on it and am breaking myself in. I ran about 18 miles today after a full charge and it is down to three bars when stopped and it was down to no bars and blinking warning while I was on the move. With 10 bars, the range on my DS with my riding style looks to be a max of 25.5 miles. I have two other bikes in my stable, a sport bike and a power cruizer, so backing off on my wrist action will be difficult. The DS is still a kick to ride and being able to listen to everything around me instead of hearing the engine is a really nice experience. I was looking to get a minimum of 40 miles from a charge but the owners manual says to look toward 30 miles at the higher speeds I see on my commute. Once I switch to street tires and get it cleaned up, I hope to squeeze another 5-10 miles out of my range.
(http://web.mac.com/polartek/CYCLES/ZERO_files/IMG_0575.jpg)
Enjoy the ride,
Polartek
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Hey, just wanted to give a quick update. I received a 2011 DS last week. Wanted to provide some quick notes.
- Love the bike!
- Bought it through Hollywood Electrics. Harlan has been great. Folks at Zero have been great. Even the delivery guy was awesome.
- Bike shipped about two weeks after I paid for it. Shipping was probably delayed a week. Was delivered in just a few business days half-way across the US.
- Five commutes under my belt so far. Just over 200 miles. Barely made it home first few days. Learning to control speed, and become more aerodynamic. (Bike just wants to go.) Getting better. Last two days, I had 2 bars left out of 11 when I arrived at home.
- At 45-55mph, I'm riding like I'm on a cafe racer to increase aerodynamics. Because of this, I kind of wish I would have purchased the S instead of the DS.
- Strapped backpack to bike in the "tank bag" position instead of wearing it on my back to try and reduce drag. Then lay on pack at higher speeds.
- High wind around here makes this super-light bike feel like it's going to be blown out from under me sometimes.
- Power bars show six left when I arrive at work, but eight when I turn bike on to leave work.
- Only negative point I've found is the rear brake pedal. I have a habit of tapping the left side of my right foot against the bike, then pushing straight down to find the brake. On this bike, you will step on a piece of plastic molding instead of the pedal. I have to consciously keep my foot a little ways out from the bike. I plan on remedying the situation by continuing the plastic molding up so that it keeps my foot farther out to the right. (I'll get some picture so this makes more sense.)
- The DS is TALL in the seat. I have ridiculously long legs, and I'm up on the balls of my feet at stop lights. I really don't want to spend $450 to get a lower seat, but that would get my feet flat on the ground.
- Wheels look great. In the pictures on the web sites, they look to me like a raspberry color. In person, however, they have the look of a red aluminum MagLite flash light. Very nice.
- Bought a Kill-A-Watt. Great device. It shows just under 4kW to charge the bike overnight. This works out to be either 16 or 32 cents, based on my tiered-pricing power bill. Assuming 32 cents, and riding 35 miles, that's obviously less than a penny per mile.
Hope this helps a prospective E-bike owner! I want to get a small web page going to collect some stats on my commutes. Would like to get a Cycle Analyst.
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Hi Iowa
great to see you on a Zero. yes, nursing the battery seems to be it. I just got the lower seat and find it comfortable and you can easier go into cafe racer position. Thinking of changing handlebars or twisting them downwards a bit as well.
The lower seat is curved more and you have one main riding position, if you brake and you sit further back you slide into "positoin". It looks great -- will post some pics soon.
forgot to charge last night, saw it early in the morning and put about an hour on a half full battery. took it easy to work as I cannot charge - without going into the lift up the floors and into the office .... found it added from 4 bars to 7 bars in one hour. got home on the 7 with 3 bars left - taking it easy.
With the Zero S the tires might reduce the drag as well. higher air pressure and simply street tires.
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Hey all,
Just to note- we don't really provide a lot of range info for the off road models, because there is such a huge variance that really seems to depend on terrain and rider style.
Another nice thing to remember is there is no engine braking. Coast as much as you can! They'll coast pretty far when you're on flat terrain, and you'll squeeze a bit more out of your range. If you commute to work on a full charge, I'm pretty confident you can pull the round trip without a charge.
However, bear in mind that the batteries don't charge linearly over time. They take most of their charge in the first hour and a half and then reach a full charge another 2 - 2.5 hours later. If you CAN put an hours worth of charge on the battery, we always recommend you do. The pack will live a lot longer the more you keep it topped off.
Cheers!
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Zero Courtney!
Welcome to the forum. Great to see someone from Zero here.
Cheers Jason =:)
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Hey, just wanted to give a quick update. I received a 2011 DS last week. Wanted to provide some quick notes.
f the DS.[/li]
[li]The DS is TALL in the seat. I have ridiculously long legs, and I'm up on the balls of my feet at stop lights. I really don't
[/quote]
looks like you got the low extra option corbin seat already on the bike, I just got it and find it great. is just a bit of a fixed position as it goes done in one point very low. I always slide into it when I break harder - but overall makes the ride more fun.
just realised that is what polartek got himself. anyway - we should start to put up some pics of our bikes.