ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: giacomo on March 31, 2026, 10:51:04 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE55ClLz6Z4
Soon someone will tear it apart ...
Giacomo
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or it'll sit in their 'museum' and no other bikes will make it out due to regulatory bla bla and it'll forever be a mystery 8)
Aaron
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At least you can order it with delivery end of the year .....
https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/order/
Giacomo
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At least you can order it with delivery end of the year .....
https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/order/
Giacomo
That is for the standard or long range battery version and it just says estimated delivery. This is the solid state verge thread. I kind of think you are a bit sarcastic here.
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On the contrary. This is the new solid state battery version with the 3 or 5 modules.
I am start thinking this battery might have a chance to be true!
Time will tell ... as I am sure someone will buy it and tear it down ...
Giacomo
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Does Verge have dealers? Or what is their plan for service and maintenance?
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I feel like their play here is to get orders for Donut batteries by using the Verge motorbike to make it appear that they’re already in mass production of solid-state cells, years ahead of other solid-state battery makers, generating buzz in the hopes of getting industrial contracts. My speculative guess is that Donut is going to be ready for mass production c2030 just like every other SS battery maker, but they can produce 30 kwh packs right now for high cost at small scale, so they’re going to put batteries that cost maybe $100k into a bike that sells for $40k, fulfill just enough Verge orders in 2026-27 for people to believe it’s really in regular production, then delay everyone else’s Verge orders until they can actually sell these things at a profit. Basically subsidizing the cost of the bike as a stealth marketing campaign to get large contracts, which is where the real money is. I could be wrong, that’s just how I read the tea leaves.
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i see where you are coming from but, in this tech, even 4 years is a lifetime away, so much can change by then, that this tech, will be obsolete by then. pushing it off a year or so umm yah. 4? that's a bit much.
aaron
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To you or me, yes, but Lightning and Damon have shown that you can keep some people on the hook for years as long as you keep drip-feeding tantalizing updates. Also, they’re probably going to promise initial delivery dates sometime in late 2026 or 2027, so they’d only have to string people along for 2-3 years if SS tech will actually be deliverable at scale starting in 2029 or 2030.
I’ll know I was right if most people’s orders get delayed past 2027, or if people get their bike delivered with a standard li-ion pack under the promise it will be upgraded to solid-state with some cacamimi story about why the solid-state pack couldn’t be supplied yet even though the tech is for sure, definitely in full production. If they deliver more than a token number of orders this year or next, I’ll be happy to say I was wrong. Surprised, but happy.
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it seems to me that if you have developed a new world-changing battery design, you are going to sell it to one of the big battery manufacturers or auto companies and not feature it in a small startup motorcycle manufacturer. ???
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I threw $100 in on a Verge ages ago, as much as anything to see what they would really offer. I got this today. I will keep you posted on what else I get.
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I threw $100 in on a Verge ages ago, as much as anything to see what they would really offer. I got this today. I will keep you posted on what else I get.
Congratulations. I hope you get something firm in the future.
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On the contrary. This is the new solid state battery version with the 3 or 5 modules.
I am start thinking this battery might have a chance to be true!
Time will tell ... as I am sure someone will buy it and tear it down ...
Giacomo
Personally I don't need it to be torn down. What interests me is, whether the quick charge capability is uphelt at second or third charge in a day or if the pack is heated up so much that you end up with 8 kW charge power only.
That would be a game changer, if you can charge the bike 10-80 % in 10 minutes again and again.
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I dunno, that's a bit of a "magic never ending kebab"* isn't it ... by the time you've discharged the battery on a ride, charged it up again, discharged it fully again... you're likely to have spent 6 hours in the saddle with just the 10 minutes break in the middle. Realistically you don't at all need that second fast charge, you'll be knackered. Obviously it'd be nice but you'd easily live without the capability.
Cas :)
* Magic kebab - once while very stoned we conceived of the concept of a kebab that never ran out, which became in our circles the concept of something unbelievably incredible offering something that you really think you want but in reality you could very likely live happily without
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ACTUALLY
I'm gonna disagree with that. I don't really mind the range and charging on my Eva Ribelle, as compromises they're fine because my body needs a break. It's *where* the chargers are that makes them annoying. I don't actually want to spend half an hour sitting around at a maccies down the back of an out of town business park and once I've done that or if I know I'm gonna have to then I'm not gonna make the long stop elsewhere that I actually do want to do.
Consistently short charges mean that I get to spend more time where I want to be and less time where I don't and that counts triple when I'm riding with friends.
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Well, there is that.
Cas :)
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I feel like their play here is to get orders for Donut batteries by using the Verge motorbike to make it appear that they’re already in mass production of solid-state cells, years ahead of other solid-state battery makers, generating buzz in the hopes of getting industrial contracts. My speculative guess is that Donut is going to be ready for mass production c2030 just like every other SS battery maker, but they can produce 30 kwh packs right now for high cost at small scale, so they’re going to put batteries that cost maybe $100k into a bike that sells for $40k, fulfill just enough Verge orders in 2026-27 for people to believe it’s really in regular production, then delay everyone else’s Verge orders until they can actually sell these things at a profit. Basically subsidizing the cost of the bike as a stealth marketing campaign to get large contracts, which is where the real money is. I could be wrong, that’s just how I read the tea leaves.
I believe that is all right-on.
I have yet to see anything new with EVs come out anything near the expected first advertised release date. Just a lot of vaporware and BS until we can actually buy the thing, after many years pass.
Tesla still has not yet built the 2020 Roadster, for one example.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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https://vergemotorcycles.us20.list-manage.com/track/click?u=8a49be868d37fdc01c1d8a9c5&id=0d5a50a0f9&e=9bc3db68ac (https://vergemotorcycles.us20.list-manage.com/track/click?u=8a49be868d37fdc01c1d8a9c5&id=0d5a50a0f9&e=9bc3db68ac)
The latest video from Verge.
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With background music. I watched it on mute. Do you need a vin# to get an insurance quote? Are they going to have parts. Cake from that general part of the globe needed all their parts to assemble motorcycles, I understand no replacement parts they went under, but I was able to go online and get their parts breakdown with parts numbers. They are not doing sign up for a demo ride, apparently. Demo ride for deposit holders. I could see renting one for a day.
I did not know someone with a YouTube account can post videos that do not show up when you click on their "home page" and then go to videos.
Wonder what else they have that is not easily viewable.
547 views in 15 hours 17.9K subscribers
I started viewing their shorts on youtube, just scroll down and more keep showing up, half is other stuff YouTube throws at you but the shorts are pretty worthwhile for a break from world affairs. I am not sure but there could be some stability issues.
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TS Pro Battery deep dive .....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paCgX7wKbJI
Giacomo
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oh my god the cooling fan
(https://i.ibb.co/Jjmb1R9S/vergefan.png)
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Surely the fan is a piss-take, surely?
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This is from their official anti-debunking video, man.
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Estimated delivery is Q4/27 for an Ultra model if ordered today :o
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Reserve your fans now.
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Has anyone seen any investors eating donuts recently? ;)
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Only fans
Cas :)
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Oh boy... :(
https://thepack.news/whistleblower-questions-donut-labs-battery-promises-as-verge-motorcycles-deliveries-slip/
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Oh boy... :(
https://thepack.news/whistleblower-questions-donut-labs-battery-promises-as-verge-motorcycles-deliveries-slip/
Why am I not surprised? ::)
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dont be surprised when you see energicas rebirth just as the new party scamming in ways similar to what ideanomics did to them
why the lies, why hide the true origin of the 'investors' and some of the other shady shit they allegedly pulled. why the cone of silence around any meaningful proveable updates?
seens the e motorcycle and battery industry is just full of liars thieves and scammers. why d0 they even try when its so easy to get caught?
just saying
aaron
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Let's see their response to this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5oyVNjrUPI
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so you got your hands on a battery, how fucking hard is it to cut the damned thing open and shoot it with an xrf and say ok these are the elements in it? even if you dont want to cut it open you hit it hard enough with the energy itll still show you, just wont be accurate with the quantities of it.
so more lies and vaorware, gee color me surprised.
speaking of bullshit promises. where are energica's promised bikes???
aaron
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You have suggested a video where after 4 minutes they start putting in background sounds. Is it worth it to go on in mute with closed captions?
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you sound like a tldr type so, since it exceeds the nominal length of your standard tictard video.... no
aaron
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The only ones that have had access to the battery is VTT or whatever that did the testing, I'm assuming they signed some sort of contract saying they can't just cut it open and see what's inside.
Fran, it's about a minute of quiet background music. Pretty standard for any video these days. If that's enough to put you off then you probably wouldn't make it through the whole 45 minutes.
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they did say its out of the line, which would imply its hitting the market, but you are probably correct, which actually makes all the allegations even more convincing that its a scam. do they honesty thing a competitor would not cut one open just because you signed an nda?
so at the end of all of this, i wonder how much in trouble the motorcycle part of the company still is in?
aaron
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<sound of a Russian guy scampering out of the back window with a suitcase stuffed full of dollars>
Regardless of all that ... does the battery actually live up to any of its claims? I mean, who cares what's inside it, if it actually does what they say it does.
Cas :)
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Not even close. It's just a high end lithium battery, he gives some examples of others in the video that perform as well or better.
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Not even close. It's just a high end lithium battery, he gives some examples of others in the video that perform as well or better.
Isn't the main advantage of the SSB just that it is safter than the others, just less likely to blow up?
I found the video too long and too boring to watch, so I do not know if that was mentioned or not.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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It's not solid state, it's just a regular old lithium battery. It's a plain old scam, I don't think it meets any of the claims they made.
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It's not solid state, it's just a regular old lithium battery. It's a plain old scam, I don't think it meets any of the claims they made.
Thanks, I will forward this thread to a buddy of mine who has a Verge on order.
But the main thing I would like to know is if the entire SSB thing is just BS, or if the SSB really does exist, at least for its biggest claim that it cannot catch fire.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Do you mean in general, or specifically from Verge? They don't have one, never did, probably never will. If you didn't know (that long video explains it all) they're the parent company of Donut Labs, it was a spin off in an attempt to save the dying brand (and I guess it's worked for now with all the funding they've got) however Donut only actually makes motors. The batteries were supposed to be coming from Nordic Nano using technology developed by CT Coatings. However this supposed miracle battery never materialised (no surprise there), but Donut decided to continue the lie. The main guy running the show is a con man, I can only assume his intention is to keep it going and get as much money as he can and then do a runner.
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the tech never existed, didn't stop them from playing it. probably a few layers of con men. oh the tech will be here any day now, we just need one teeny little step (inventing it) and it's finished! con man 2 spins it, hands off to 3, who embellishes more, each getting their little cut of the grifter cupcake until the rat turds fall out and someone realizes hey, those ain't chocolate chips!!
Supercaps kind of went thru the same schtick as they evolved. these amazing devices that could do 100k's of cycles, bla bla woof, then like an elon musk wall battery, slowly and silently the specs halve in the middle of the night and nobody was supposed to notice. now are good for 10 maybe 20 k and are fairly current limited. now they have so called hybrid supercaps or are calling them lithium supercaps, basically they glued a battery onto a capacitor and are pretending its some new marvelous tech.
believe half of what you hear, less of what you see, especially with ai now. it will keep you from looking like a fool and/or getting scammed when you double and triple down on something that just isn't true.
whats funny is, sodium batteries are making the rounds again, and they are trying to pretend they are the next disruptor, when they have been around quite a while, and have plenty of problems, and simply won't work the way lith's currently do.
whats even more funny is... terms like solid state, they can't even make up their minds what that really even means, what you must have to qualify. is it genuine or Genuine ?
Aaron
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Do you mean in general, or specifically from Verge? They don't have one, never did, probably never will. If you didn't know (that long video explains it all) they're the parent company of Donut Labs, it was a spin off in an attempt to save the dying brand (and I guess it's worked for now with all the funding they've got) however Donut only actually makes motors. The batteries were supposed to be coming from Nordic Nano using technology developed by CT Coatings. However this supposed miracle battery never materialised (no surprise there), but Donut decided to continue the lie. The main guy running the show is a con man, I can only assume his intention is to keep it going and get as much money as he can and then do a runner.
Sound like both, Verge as well as the SSB is all BS. They cannot put a type of battery in the Verge that doesn't exist!
-Don- Auburn, CA
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which would probably explain why your friends bike is still on order and not being shipped.
battery tech has gotten a little better since this came out, just nowhere near the claims they made. perhaps they ship with a.. whatever battery they currently have?? maybe claim, sorry it's old tech but we thought you'd rather get your bike now rather than wait months and months, possibly even adding a lame claim such as., when it does come available, we'll ship a battery to you at a great price!! this way they still get your money.
be interesting to see how it plays out.
aaron
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I have been saying for years that there is a lot of vaporware with EV batteries.
But the SSB was the one that fooled me.
As they say, a lie repeated enough times becomes the truth (at least for quite a while).
And I fell for the lie. But at least I didn't invest in the lie.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The NORDIC SAGA continues.
https://insideevs.com/news/798393/donut-lab-solid-state-debunked-lithium-ion-battery/
The vid linked inside this article is worth watching.
Once I sincerely hoped that Donut Lab was telling the truth, but the indications a not pointing in that direction.
Even if I had the money to buy a Verge with SSB right now, I would have to wait more than a year for delivery acc. to Verge's website. That tells its own story, I think.
I am 100 % sure, in about 5 years there will be a Hollywood picture about this.
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The NORDIC SAGA continues.
https://insideevs.com/news/798393/donut-lab-solid-state-debunked-lithium-ion-battery/
The vid linked inside this article is worth watching.
Once I sincerely hoped that Donut Lab was telling the truth, but the indications a not pointing in that direction.
Even if I had the money to buy a Verge with SSB right now, I would have to wait more than a year for delivery acc. to Verge's website. That tells its own story, I think.
I am 100 % sure, in about 5 years there will be a Hollywood picture about this.
"The video inside" is the same video I post earlier in this thread that started this whole dialog.
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Speaking of sodium lithium batteries, I recall that when Zero first announced their bikes (before the board took over and the founder got the boot) they advertised that they were using sodium-based batteries, not because they had a lot of capacity, but because they were relatively easily to be recycled. But I think that claim about using sodium batteries didn't make it into their first production models. ???
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sodium has less energy density, heavier, less power, but yes cheaper and easier to recycle. but who wants a bike that weighs 30 lbs more and goes 30miles less?
right now the prevailing directions seem to be make something different, or make something safer. different is unexplored territory, safer, you have a lot of help/known's but also a lot of competition.
supercaps, are about as simple as you can get. mylar /carbon powder rolled up like one big tootsie roll, or would that be hoho :) can series for higher voltage but have limitations there, and current limitations.
liquid batteries show a lot of promise too, the vanadium flow batteries look very interesting, but, like everything else, you see a few cinderella stories, half of which are begging for you to throw money at them and get in on the 'ground floor' bla bla... weve seen that before.
who knows, with quantum computers and such, maybe something will be discovered that is another disruptor, what they can do is amazing but unfortunately we know humanity, they won't be used mainly for 'good'.
aaron
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You might find this article regarding GM's sodium-ion based battery that was in my newspaper yesterday interesting.
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in that use case it makes a lot of sense. its twice as big but who cares, they are shoving it inside a building to just sit on a parcel of land. the size is not super important there. for a larger vehicle, maybe a truck, it's not as important as theres a bit of room to shove shit and carry around. when you get to smaller things like economy cars, or devices, then it gets critical, and just don't work.
if they really want to go old school, go nickel iron. it's about indestructable, you boil it dry, just add new electrolyte up and down a few times and it's about as good as new again, and lasts decades if you do treat it right.
i love how they are taking things from 20 years ago and spinning it like, and this 'advanced technology' oh stfu already lol.
aaron
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Well you say that but ... they're already on the roads and they're working just fine. About the only place they're probably not a good fit is high performance motorcycles.
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in larger vehicles yes they will work, they got room to put them in at, now a compact car or something you want to be ultra efficient, then no, the weight for the power kills that. the cross country trucks, while theyd work fine there because theres gob tons of room to store them under the frame, subframe them etc etc, on the other hand, depending on the cargo, they might be a liability because they take away from cargo capacity. they could work with the right cargo. stuff that would fill a truck and not get close to the 80k limit, great, roll em out.
aaron
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But that's exactly where they are about to be used ... isn't the Changan Nevo A06 going to have a sodium ion battery version?