ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: Pard on July 30, 2025, 07:01:09 PM
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https://www.visordown.com/news/honda-releases-new-ev-fun-teaser-more-info-arriving-september-2
"Honda is moving forward with its large-capacity electric motorcycle range, as it confirms that its EV Fun Concept will be getting a full reveal on September 2.
The bike was first shown to the world at EICMA last year. It shared the stage with another battery-powered bike, the EV Urban Concept, although it was Honda’s refreshingly wild V3 concept that stole all the limelight - and the headlines! "
Looks like it is only a 60 mile range bike per the article. Not in the same category or class as Energica, but will compete with the LiveWire S2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmE9tXHAgCY&t=1s
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So ... Honda, with all the speed and grace of a crippled elephant, spring into action gracefully to compete with a motorcycle that is already cratering in sales expectations. Brilliant.
Only Zero and Energica seemed to understand the market. And Zero has gone a bit off the rails for the last few years and Energica, er, went bust.
Cas :)
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In before: swappable batteries dictating format, low voltage system precluding rapid charging, and a hyper-focus on mass over capability limiting battery capacity.
It's a compliance vehicle.
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Probably some global warming bs, look were green too!
mid range entry bike maybe? but still it'll probably tap 10 to 12k price which for something in that range will turn folks off.
they said CCS2 fast charging, i can't see how it's going to be any faster really with a battery that small, they can only put in so many C rate, so it's not like you can juice it with 100 amps in 10 minutes. Well you can but the battery won't last a few years. Still though, that might be just to open up more places to charge, so you are not stuck with just wall chargers, you can use the commercial ones and not just J plugs.
CCS2 also implies it's probably not going to be released into the states first as most of ours is CCS1, NACS so that will cut down on the available stations.
be interesting what it's top end might be. If it does not have a hell of a lot of range but can hit 100 mph or so, this might be a fun toy for track days, or just little running around town. Lets be honest, even though Energica went with the Experia and it's an awesome bike, Touring on an E bike is not mainstream yet, you need to plan that one carefully and most touring bikes tend to be a couch on wheels, so I don't think they really have long distances in mind. Maybe for the apartment dweller, who can't really plug in at home easily, go back and forth to work and every day or so, stop at the charging station to top off before heading home.
Aaron
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Likely they said CCS2 because they were at EICMA and I think the reporting is from a British outlet. You do need a certain minimum voltage for CCS and I wonder if what was actually said is Type 2 which is the standard AC plug over here. As to whether there's a point to putting DC charging on a bike with only 60 miles of range, that's not a lot worse a small battery Energica.
Which makes me wonder, my 60% leg range is roughly 70 miles, if that's what they're quoting as 60 that'd give them maybe 100 miles total so something like 15kWh potentially. I doubt it though.
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that's what i was thinking too.
type / level 2 in the USA would be your 240 volt, which would be normal power in eu. fast chargers, ie direct DC is lv 3 and 4 and minimum volts is 100 volts. That's high voltage and falls into an entirely different class of vehicle. it could not charge a lower volt battery, unless they put in some sort of goofy power conversion, to step it down just so they CAN use the commercial chargers but id see that as being a nightmare to get to work property. 15 kw would add a lot of weight too, and price. if i am riding a mid range bike, i don't want the damned thing weighing what a liter bike would. At least with Energica, the power level of the bike matches it's higher weight, it's a high end high hp, high torque bike.
some more food for thought. ok they come out with a bike that has a 60 mile range, but cost 10k or so? nothing really super imo. unless this thing can do a buck 25, and be some contention on the track, why spend that kind of money when i can get a scooter for half the price, with essentially the same specs? some of these scoots can do 70 to 80 mph, so work on the highway just fine.
aaron
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Nah, It'll be A2 compliant (47hp), and around the 7-9kwh battery at 100ish volts.
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it's lowest voltage can't be below 100 or it will never fast charge. unless that's a play on words and they mean, it charges fast, .vs. a true DC l3 or 4 fast charge.
ive seen some 48v batteries weigh about 160 lbs that are 10 kwh and can push 300 ish amps continuously, in fact just recently rebuilt one. personally i don't like those high amp claims, thru the form factors they have for the lugs, that thing will never hold 300 amps for long without btfu. but anyways, depending on what they want, there are plenty of sizes and configurations of batteries out there now they could plug and play w/o having to design something proprietary. 2 of them in series can put you about 100 volts and still be within the dielectric parameters of the cells.
aaron
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They use the term "fast charge" for higher levels of L2 charging, ie 1.9kw single phase vs 6.9kw three phase
"BMW CE 04. In this process, the status display informs you about the current charge status at any time. At 2.3 kW your scooter will then charge from 0% to 80% in three and a half hours. You can even speed things up considerably more by using the optional quick charger. At up to 6.9 kW and with the maximum charge current the same charging process will then take a mere 65 minutes."
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Nah, It'll be A2 compliant (47hp), and around the 7-9kwh battery at 100ish volts.
That's more or less what I expect
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Per SAE J1772, the minimum voltage for Level 3 DC fast charging is now 50 volts.
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karlh could you please share where you got that info from about the 50 volts?
j1772 is a type of plug, and it's typically used for AC charging. it supplies AC .. basically mains. as low as 115 volt in the us or 240 us, and elsewhere to the vehicle as AC and the vehicle has a charger that converts that to DC.
L3 fast charging, supplies DC directly to the vehicle. i looked in a few places and it's showing the minimum voltage as being 200 volts up to 1000 volts. This surprised me, as my charger starts at 100 volts, so i assumed that was the basement, it turns out i guess they customized my charger and the standard range for L3 charging is 200 volts min and 1000 volts max. NOT 100 volts as i initially stated, so apologies for that.
i was incorrect earlier when i said it went down to 100 volts, it appears the industry standard is a min of 200 volts.
The only thing that recently changed really is that the standard supports HIGHER voltages now up to 1000 volts to support platforms like the ultium, but there is nothing ive found saying 50 volts.
Thank you
Aaron
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Ladies and gentlemen:
ive been looking for information on the 50 volt standard that was just mentioned, and grok spit this out to me concerning J plugs.
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2. How J1772_202401 Supports 80A with a 50A NEMA 14-50
Your question about how 80A is possible with a NEMA 14-50’s 50A rating highlights a key distinction between the standard’s maximum capability and the outlet’s limitation. Here’s the explanation:
J1772_202401 Maximum: The standard allows Level 2 charging up to 80A at 208–240V, enabling high-power charging (e.g., 19.2 kW) for vehicles with robust onboard chargers (e.g., Tesla Model S/X or Ford F-150 Lightning, which support 11.5–19.2 kW). This is achieved through:
Hardwired Installations: Many Level 2 chargers (e.g., Wallbox Pulsar Plus, ChargePoint Home Flex) can be hardwired to a 60A, 80A, or 100A circuit instead of using a plug like NEMA 14-50. For example, a 100A circuit (derated to 80A continuous) supports the full 80A at 240V, delivering 19.2 kW.
Higher-Rated Outlets: Some installations use outlets like NEMA 14-60 (60A) or NEMA 6-80 (80A), though these are less common than NEMA 14-50. A 60A circuit supports up to 48A continuous (11.5 kW), and an 80A circuit supports up to 64A (15.4 kW).
NEMA 14-50 Limitation: A NEMA 14-50 outlet is capped at 50A (40A continuous), so it cannot support the full 80A allowed by J1772_202401. Chargers with NEMA 14-50 plugs are typically configured for 32A or 40A to comply with NEC derating. For example:
The Emporia Level 2 charger delivers 40A (9.6 kW) with a NEMA 14-50 plug but can reach 48A (11.5 kW) when hardwired to a 60A circuit.
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Can anyone else spot the problem here??
Aaron
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CCS2 is supposed to be down to 150VDC but most older stations are 200VDC. So in practice, 200.
Cas :)
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Yeah from what I could find when I looked into it the CCS standard supports down to 150 but good luck finding a charger that implements less than 200.
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Yeah from what I could find when I looked into it the CCS standard supports down to 150 but good luck finding a charger that implements less than 200.
Label from EV-Go CCS charger at Incline Village, NV (NE Lake Tahoe):
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i went right to the sae standard. Prior 2017, i had to dig in the archives, volts were from 50 to 500 volts at 100 amps. in October 2017 they changed this to be from 0 to 1000 volts 1000 amps, this was to accommodate the higher voltage platforms like the Ultium, and porche's new models, but then later on, decided that 0 volts was 'problematic' and quietly changed it to what it is today 200 volts - 1000 volts, which is what the standard currently is today.
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As it currently stands, here is the most up to date J1772 standard
Key Features of SAE J1772-2021 *** Notice the last edition is year 2021 ***
AC Charging Levels:
AC Level 1: 120 V, single-phase, up to 16 A (1.92 kW). Typically used for residential charging with standard outlets.
AC Level 2: 208–240 V, single-phase, up to 80 A (19.2 kW). Common for home, workplace, and public charging stations.
DC Charging Levels (via Combined Charging System, CCS):
DC Level 1: Supports lower-power DC charging, typically at 200–450 V and up to 80 A (up to 36 kW). Used for smaller EVs or less demanding applications.
DC Level 2: High-power DC fast charging, supporting 200–1,000 V and up to 400 A (up to 400 kW). Designed for fast charging at public stations, accommodating modern high-voltage EV battery systems.
This is where it gets confusing. In general, they kind of mish mashed this together and say there are 4 levels of charging. So with that, these are terms WE commonly see, and what they mean.
Level 1 - AC input typically 120 VAC
Level 2 - AC input typically 208 or 240 VAC, what your mains is feeding it.
AC is what is going into your vehicle, your vehicle converts it to DC onboard and then feeds that DC to the battery.
Level 3 - DC input 200 volts to 1000 volts
Level 4 - DC input 200 volts to 1000 volts.
DC is what is going into your vehicle, from there it goes right to the battery.
This DC is initially Fed from AC, it comes off your Mains as AC, at whatever voltage you are feeding it, 240 V / 480 V and ive seen 600 V, either single or 3 phase AC. This AC is turned into DC OUTSIDE your vehicle and sent to the vehicle as DC.
Level 1 is rated to 16 Amps AC max, since that is the max your plug can handle a 20 amp plug derated to 80 percent for continuous use
is pretty much a USA thing.
Level 2 is rated to 40 Amps AC IF it is feeding off a Nema 14-50 Plug (50 amp derated 20 percent for continuous use)
Level 2 is rated to 80 Amps AC IF it is hard wired into a 100 Amp circuit breaker.
Level 3 is rated to 80 Amps DC - Typically lower power chargers, like you would have at your home or work place.
Level 4 is rated to 400 Amps DC - This would be your high power charging stations, your commercial superchargers.
NOTE 1: Although L3 was listed as 450 volts since it was for 'smaller applications' the standard goes to 1000 volts and they have been making the chargers able to go up to 1000 volts, because of the higher voltage platforms out there, so yes you can still charge them at home.
NOTE 2: Although the standard may go up to 80 Amps for a L3 charger, this does not mean YOUR charger goes up to that range, consult the manufacturer to see what YOUR equipment does. Also, this max, refers to the chargers MAX out put at MAX parameters. Chargers are Amp limited. A 20 kw charger will give you 1000 volts at 20 Amps. If your battery is only running at 400 volts, then YOU get 400 volts X it's 20 Amps, which is 400 x 20 or only 8kw. Keep this in mind when selecting which equipment to buy.
Key Take Away: The standard changes often as conditions change. Just because it's basement is 200 volts now, there is NO reason to think they would not lower it back to zero volts again or something similar, if a proliferation of lower volt platforms suddenly started flooding the scene, like the 48 volt bikes hitting the markets now. Just don't expect massive KW charging rates, the cables would be massive and it would far exceed any C rate the battery could safely handle.
This is the most up to date information I was able to find and put together here. Hopefully it helps clear up some misconceptions.
The language they use gets foggy, and often times 'sources' are flat out wrong, or severely outdated.
If anyone finds any verifiable errors with this, please let us know so I can correct this. Instead of just bitching about what garbage wiki is, im going to do something about it and actually post accurate info.
Aaron
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check out REZON BOHEMIA
it has 20 or 22 or 24S pack ,dont remember exactly, but the point is its below 100V
and it has ability to charge with CCS (7kW)
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check out REZON BOHEMIA
it has 20 or 22 or 24S pack ,dont remember exactly, but the point is its below 100V
and it has ability to charge with CCS (7kW)
It's not true CCS.
The bikes "AC" charger takes upwards of 200V of DC and converts it down to the 88-100V of the Rezon.
Pretty simple, but the same Porsche does for the Taycan on 400V DC stations, an internal converters boosts the voltage up to 800....
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Typically those AC chargers are 'universal' they have a wide input range generally from like 100 vac up to 280 or 300 vac. They do this so that they can use a one size fits all that will work in plugs all over the world no matter what mains you run, 210 / 240 overseas, 120 / 240 american or 277 if you are running it on the wild leg of a Y setup.
Also as mentioned they can step it up to huge voltages as needed to actually charge the pack.
The CCS part, really is just the 2 additional DC plugs on the bottom, the top 5 are actually a J plug, they typically only call it CCS after the 2 DC plugs are added on, it still uses the J plug's wires for communication though so both are needed together for CCS to work. They were at one time toying with using PLC for the comms but it was having issues so they put that on hold.
Aaron