ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: rfpardal on June 17, 2025, 12:55:15 AM
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Hi everyone,
I ride an Energica Experia, and lately I’ve been noticing a slight stiffness or binding in the steering, especially when turning the handlebars at low speed or while stationary. It feels like something might be sticking slightly, and I’m starting to suspect it could be related to the steering head bearings.
However, I’m not sure which specific bearings the Experia uses or what the correct part numbers are.
Has anyone experienced something similar? And does anyone know which steering head bearings are used on the Energica Experia?
Thanks in advance for any help!
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Hi everyone,
I ride an Energica Experia, and lately I’ve been noticing a slight stiffness or binding in the steering, especially when turning the handlebars at low speed or while stationary. It feels like something might be sticking slightly, and I’m starting to suspect it could be related to the steering head bearings.
However, I’m not sure which specific bearings the Experia uses or what the correct part numbers are.
Has anyone experienced something similar? And does anyone know which steering head bearings are used on the Energica Experia?
Thanks in advance for any help!
I will assume you do not need new bearings, just some grease. I know on at least some ICE bikes, they are shipped new without enough grease on the steering head bearings. They also sometimes need adjustment for being too loose or too tight in just a few weeks after purchase.
However, I have not had such problems on any of my EV bikes.
-Don- Reno, NV
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My Experia eats head bearings. I have just 30,000 miles on it and installed my 4th set of tapered roller bearings over the weekend.
The Stockers gave up the ghost at ~9000 miles. Energica replaced them under warranty since they shouldnt wear out so fast. Couldnt get the part from Energica, because reasons, so I went with a BMW part that is the same spec. Those bearings gave up the ghost at around 20000 miles. Decided to go with SKF bearings and had them replaced at the South City Service Center. Figuring I had eliminated the variables of both inferior quality (SKF is top notch) and ham handed installation ( maybe the tech at the dealership was having a bad day) so our own Demoni pushed the SKFs in, again under warranty. Those gave up last month at ~ 30,000. Getting warranty work is tougher these days so I invested in the specialized tools needed and did it myself. At least with my bike, it looks like head bearings are a 10000 mile consumable.
Some Experias just do that. 2 others others have complained of the same thing on social media. Still trying to figure out why.
My front end was really stiffly sprung. I had all the preload dialed out and still couldnt get enough sag. There is a hunch that many miles with a too stiff, long travel front end can act like a hammer on the bearing races. I had the forks serviced and they took about 45% of the interior preload out. Hoping to make it soft enough that the external adjusters can get it on the nose. We'll see if I'm replacing this set in 10,000 miles.
The best source for the bearings, believe it or not is Napa Auto Parts. Part # BRG BR32. SKF Tapered Roller Bearings. 28x52x16. somewhere in the neighborhood of $40 each. You'll need two. BMW part #31427663941 if that works better for you. Those are around $100 each. Other stores have the same size bearings for as little as $18 each but they are not SKF, or All Balls or any other brand you should trust in your bike.
If you stand next to the bike, on the left side, you grab the frame on the right side and lean it over on the kickstand to get the front wheel off the ground. With the front wheel in the air sweep the bars, gently, left and right. If it feels like there is a notch or detent at close to straight ahead the bearings are needing to be replaced.
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I had a 1993 Honda CB750 that developed the same feeling when steering at only 9K miles. I thought that the steering bearings were notched and took it to a shop to have them replaced. I asked for the ball bearings and races to be returned to me and once I cleaned off the old stiff grease, they turned out to be in perfect condition. Apparently, the grease had hardened over the years and cleaning and re-greasing the bearings would have been all that was necessary.
On the other hand, my 2009 BMW F650GS with 48K miles on the clock also developed a notchy feeling when steering. But when I went to check the tapered roller bearings to re-grease them, I found that the lower bearing race was badly notched all the way around the race. The upper bearing looked OK. These were captured roller bearings and were still well greased with the red stuff. Now I need to take things apart again and install a new set of bearings at $60 each, sourced from a BMW dealer.
So you never really know what is up until you take things apart and inspect them.
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I had a 2010 KTM 990 SMT. I sold it with 90,000 miles and it still had the stock head bearings that were fine when I sold it. I've owned many bikes and usually expect in the neighborhood of 50,000 miles from a set of head bearings. I guess sometimes you get a bike that is an anomaly. like the SMT was with longevity, I guess my Experia is the other end of the spectrum. As more Experia owners catch up to me in mileage and more people have this problem to solve, it will get figured out.
Even if 10% of owners have the issue that's only, like, 35 people on the planet affected.
@rfpardal keep us posted on how yours does.
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More like 38 people!
Faaaaark that is a low number. Getting parts is going to be a nightmare
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My Experia also had them replaced under warranty after 6000km. Now I am at 20.000km and the new ones still work fine. A friend with a 2021 SS9+ with 55.000 had them replaced a couple of times. Being out of warranty, he did it himself and found out that the ID of the bearing bed was slightly distorted/oval-shaped. He had to machine the bearing bed to be perfectly round and then used SKF precision bearings. No issues since then, but he just did some 10.000 with it.
BMW bearings are cheaper over here in Germany - 38EUR instead of 100$ per set.
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I'm at 11,000 miles on my Experia. I'll have to pay close attention to this. Thanks for the info all. Helpful to all ~400 of us (guessing).
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I'm at 11,000 miles on my Experia. I'll have to pay close attention to this. Thanks for the info all. Helpful to all ~400 of us (guessing).
Replaced my Experia head bearings at ~20k km, had the "notchy" feeling...used good quality SKF tapered roller bearings, no issues since...I have 36k km on it now.
There was very little grease on the OEM bearings too...why I don't know. :-\
Smithy.
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I'm glad I found this thread. I checked my steering, and it sure does have a notchy feeling. UGH gotta replace that bearing. Thanks all.
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what happens if you don't replace the bearing?
just crappy steering, front wheel falls off, what / how bad will it get?
just curious, if, as many fear, parts become a problem, how serious will this end up being.
aaron
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Right now, it's subtle, but it makes the low speed steering, sticky and seemingly top heavy as the front end is rotated on the bearing. I can see it sticking and getting unsafe, if unresolved. As noted above, the bearings are readily available at napa.
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My dealer is recommending oil seals, dust seals and bushings for the forks as well, is any of that necessary?
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My dealer is recommending oil seals, dust seals and bushings for the forks as well, is any of that necessary?
For them to make more money, of course it is necessary. Otherwise, we all need to guess without seeing the bike.
-Don- Verdi, NV
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Thanks Don, good point. So they want to charge me 900 just for the steering bearing... How hard is this job? I will check out youtube first for 900. Any special tools necessary?
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My dealer is recommending oil seals, dust seals and bushings for the forks as well, is any of that necessary?
YES !! i just had to have my forks redone on my Ribelle because the race forks typically don't come with that stuff, i picked up road grime and they started leaking oil down the fork, almost onto the brake pads. i would recommend seals.
aaron
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Thanks Don, good point. So they want to charge me 900 just for the steering bearing... How hard is this job? I will check out youtube first for 900. Any special tools necessary?
I have done all the work you mentioned but only on ICE bikes in the past. There was nothing special that I needed to do any of it.
I rebuilt the forks and replaced the steering bearings, but only on my 1971 BMW & 1984 Yamaha Venture. I am surprised that newer bikes are having such problems these days with that stuff.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Thanks Don, good point. So they want to charge me 900 just for the steering bearing... How hard is this job? I will check out youtube first for 900. Any special tools necessary?
$900 for parts and labor for that job sounds reasonable. You need to remove some fairings, front wheel, forks and the handlebars.
As for job specific tools:
To knock out the bearing outer races from the frame https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/head-cup-remover-oversized-rt-2?category=Headset (https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/head-cup-remover-oversized-rt-2?category=Headset)
To remove the bearing inner race from the lower triple tree https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0544 (https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0544)
To press new outer races into the frame https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0669 (https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0669)
You will also need a 46mm socket to torque the steering nut that is used to preload the bearings.
My dealer is recommending oil seals, dust seals and bushings for the forks as well, is any of that necessary?
If the forks are leaking oil the seals may be damaged, requiring replacement. Rule of thumb is fork oil and seals every 2-3 years, oil breaks down over time. Since the change in performance is so gradual it's easy to overlook. A bike feels worlds better after a fork/shock service, like when you get a fresh set of tires mounted.
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What Demoni said, can't be stressed enough.
Oil wears out, sucks water from the air, gets crappy, changes viscosity so it don't work properly in the shock or fork assembly anymore.
Brake fluid is same way, suck water from the air, gets broken down by thermal cycling etc etc.
You should check this at least yearly IMO, and if you are a more spirited rider, ride very often, or do track days etc. Just pay the 20 bucks and put new shit in. You don't notice until it gets real bad (or your times start to hurt because the bike just feels like something is 'off' with the handling), and when you finally do change it, it's like WOW it's like a new bike!!
Brakes, worse case, catastrophic failure, the brakes lock up on you coming into a turn you flip and end up being the latest lawn ornament. It's your call how important it is to keep good fluids in your bike.
Aaron
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Regarding replacing fork seals, you may want to try a fork seal cleaner first, before a rebuild. Cheap, easy to use, and sometime they do work.
Changing fork fluid is easy to do yourself. Takes time but not difficult. Watch a bunch of videos and buy the required specialty tools. Once you get over the inhibition to try, you will be able to maintain your forks for the rest of your motorcycling life. Very satisfying job to perform.
https://sealmate.net/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR8GYeVHc0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k884DfM2LsU&t=511s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pyD1MbSYPc
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My Experia eats head bearings. I have just 30,000 miles on it and installed my 4th set of tapered roller bearings over the weekend.
The Stockers gave up the ghost at ~9000 miles. it looks like head bearings are a 10000 mile consumable.
Some Experias just do that. 2 others others have complained of the same thing on social media. Still trying to figure out why.
. We'll see if I'm replacing this set in 10,000 miles.
Sounds to me like the bonding conductor on these bikes is damaged or nonexistent.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bonding+conductor+to+eliminate+static+electricity+to+protect+bearings&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#sbfbu=1&pi=bonding%20conductor%20to%20eliminate%20static%20electricity%20to%20protect%20bearings
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pretty radical jump to a conclusion without even seeing what kind of damage they suffered.
do you tell your mechanic your car is making a weird sound and just go with, oh it needs a new transmission, without even looking at it?
GIGO
that's the problem with AI, it can be seen as 'smart' but does not have common sense, much like anyone who would just run with the first thing it pukes out at them.
Aaron
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Suit yourself with your ignorance.
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Regarding replacing fork seals, you may want to try a fork seal cleaner first, before a rebuild. Cheap, easy to use, and sometime they do work.
Changing fork fluid is easy to do yourself. Takes time but not difficult. Watch a bunch of videos and buy the required specialty tools. Once you get over the inhibition to try, you will be able to maintain your forks for the rest of your motorcycling life. Very satisfying job to perform.
If the fork seals are leaking due to dirt or grime getting trapped between the seal and the lower fork tube cleaning them can fix the issue. However if the leak is caused by damage to the seal, replacement is the only option.
DIY fork service is totally doable, here are the specs for the forks.
- Showa cross reference seals for the Marzocchi forks: AP8123825 43x54x11mm.
- The forks use 7.5w oil and each requires 425ml. Free air measurement is 110mm.
Regarding specialized tools the Marzocchi forks do not require expensive tools like Ohlins
- Fork oil level measurements are done with the fork spring removed
- You will need to remove the top cap to get the spring out of the shock, that requires a thin 19mm wrench.
- To remove fork seals you can use an extractor but a large flat bladed screwdriver will also work.
- To install fork seals you should use the correct size 2 piece seal driver.
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Good information. Thanks @Demoni
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My Experia eats head bearings. I have just 30,000 miles on it and installed my 4th set of tapered roller bearings over the weekend.
The Stockers gave up the ghost at ~9000 miles. it looks like head bearings are a 10000 mile consumable.
Some Experias just do that. 2 others others have complained of the same thing on social media. Still trying to figure out why.
. We'll see if I'm replacing this set in 10,000 miles.
Sounds to me like the bonding conductor on these bikes is damaged or nonexistent.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bonding+conductor+to+eliminate+static+electricity+to+protect+bearings&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#sbfbu=1&pi=bonding%20conductor%20to%20eliminate%20static%20electricity%20to%20protect%20bearings
Motopropondent, do you know if your steering head & swingarm are bonded to the bikes frame?
My 2016 Zero DSR still has the original head bearing @ 95k miles & it has bonding conductors (18 AWG wire if memory serves me well). I did have to replace the swingarm bearings @ about 48k miles but I attribute that to cyclic bearing wear.
AC motors run through VFD’s create static electricity & Zero felt it necessary to add bonding conductors on their products so that’s something you should look into on your bike.
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The head bearing is not in the electrical circuit, not part of the path. The head bearing is further mechanically isolated from the motor / chain / belt / inverter etc. the path to ground is much lower resistance through the frame than the head bearing, bonding strap or not.
In order for there to be pitting from electrostatic discharge, that is sufficient enough to evaporate steel at 1500 degrees C, there would need to be arcing from the inner race to the outer race/ race to balls/ Something... there is nothing in the front end, on the wheel in the wheel or axle to generate static electric to cause it to want to jump from the inner race to the outer race, and again, the frame is a far less resistive path for current discharge than trying to sneak to a mechanically isolated object and THEN back to ground. static electric is going to ground itself on the frame / forks before trying to jump to the inner race to goto ground.
This isn't a motor bearing, generator or rotor bearing. There also is nothing making / flowing juice inside to want to jump outside.
Damage is most likely due to wear, poor lubrication, excessive abuse, contamination, or shock from a crash or really nasty pothole perhaps, and then it exasperated.
Arcing damage is also very tell tale, you won't mistake it when you see it. If you had that much build up - up front to cause it,it'd also more than likely be raising total hell with the electronic controls on the handlebars, the display unit too.
When you get this bearing out IF you decide change it, can you please take pictures of the damage and post it, that way we can possibly see what caused it, or more than likely what did NOT cause it.
Thank you.
Aaron
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The head bearing is not in the electrical circuit, not part of the path. The head bearing is further mechanically isolated from the motor / chain / belt / inverter etc. the path to ground is much lower resistance through the frame than the head bearing, bonding strap or not.
In order for there to be pitting from electrostatic discharge, that is sufficient enough to evaporate steel at 1500 degrees C, there would need to be arcing from the inner race to the outer race/ race to balls/ Something... there is nothing in the front end, on the wheel in the wheel or axle to generate static electric to cause it to want to jump from the inner race to the outer race, and again, the frame is a far less resistive path for current discharge than trying to sneak to a mechanically isolated object and THEN back to ground. static electric is going to ground itself on the frame / forks before trying to jump to the inner race to goto ground.
This isn't a motor bearing, generator or rotor bearing. There also is nothing making / flowing juice inside to want to jump outside.
Damage is most likely due to wear, poor lubrication, excessive abuse, contamination, or shock from a crash or really nasty pothole perhaps, and then it exasperated.
Arcing damage is also very tell tale, you won't mistake it when you see it. If you had that much build up - up front to cause it,it'd also more than likely be raising total hell with the electronic controls on the handlebars, the display unit too.
When you get this bearing out IF you decide change it, can you please take pictures of the damage and post it, that way we can possibly see what caused it, or more than likely what did NOT cause it.
Thank you.
Aaron
Guess your smarter then the designers/engineers @ Zero that felt bonding conductors from the frame to swingarm & steering head were a necessity.
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we are talking about an experia, not a zero here. even then it still applies.
do you even know how electricity works? or how that bearing even works in the system.
please with your knowledge, explain how and why the electric would, or even want to, jump thru a bearing race, punch through the non conductive grease to get into the inner race to find ground on the head bearing when the frame is accessible many easier places for it to get to ? you throw out buzz words without a clue how the system works, then trust ai to answer all your needs, when you feed it a garbage query because you don't know how the system works. you are the one thinking an inverter/vfd is going to produce enough eddy current with significant amplitude to burn craters in a hardened steel bearing isolated from that system. at very worst, maybe, some issues with the motor or rear wheel bearings, head bearing.... no.
why don't you ask your question of the zero engineers, and when they get done laughing, let me know what they told you.
maybe they'll tell you to check the radio antenna next or tire pressure.
out of curiosity, how old are you, .... checking another theory here.
aaron
still wanting to see the pictures of the bearing damage.
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Or how about this….
Motoproponent checks his bikes steering head/frame bond conductor if it exists & if it does & is in good condition then I’m wrong.
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Hmmm, it seems from the legacy wiring diagram (Ego/Eva 2020-21) that all 12V circuits on the Energica return to ground, suspect this is chassis ground...easy to check...and if so, then all handle bar elements e.g. head-lights too will have ground terminations at chassis.
If there was substantial fault current to effect steering head bearing then it would be coming from the lighting circuit, check where the headlights ground to maybe a loose ground termination could cause the bearing issue as described.
A bonding jumper is more indicative of switch mode noise suppression measure...not sure if that would be for radiated noise on the Zero, but Energica doesn't show such in the wiring diagrams for the early bikes anyway.
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PWM even if that were the case, even if it is pulling 4 amps, there simply isn't enough energy for that current to really get thru the grease on the bearing, you'd immediately know it, it'd throw that light fault, the connection would not be a solid one thru the bearing that it can't penetrate the grease and the current would be bouncing all over the place that'd throw a lighting fault.
energica monitors the current going to the lights and if it's goofy it throws a fault.
any currents induced by the pwm would be switching spikes or induction in the motor shaft most likely because they ARE connected to that 'system' any bearing issues would be back there, motor bearings or less susceptible, the rear wheel.
ESok just because you want to keep doubling down on i don't have a clue how a system works does not automatically make you correct because a component exists that is not used in the system you are concerned with good lord son..
why don't you try this, since you are so in love with ai, ask ai if a bad grounding strap can cause arcing thru the head bearing on that bike, if you are going to be stuck on stupid, at least let the ai have a good laugh too.,
Aaron
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……since you are so in love with ai, …..
Aaron
Not sure how you reached this (inaccurate) conclusion.
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Hmmm, it seems from the legacy wiring diagram (Ego/Eva 2020-21) that all 12V circuits on the Energica return to ground, suspect this is chassis ground...easy to check...and if so, then all handle bar elements e.g. head-lights too will have ground terminations at chassis.
If there was substantial fault current to effect steering head bearing then it would be coming from the lighting circuit, check where the headlights ground to maybe a loose ground termination could cause the bearing issue as described.
A bonding jumper is more indicative of switch mode noise suppression measure...not sure if that would be for radiated noise on the Zero, but Energica doesn't show such in the wiring diagrams for the early bikes anyway.
With a predictable premature operating lifespan from multiple mechanics & manufacturers as well as knowing that AC motors on VFD produce static electricity, it sure seemed plausible that a lack of bonding conductor between frame/steering head could allow EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining) to cause bearing damage.
If the Expedia indeed uses the chassis as 12v ground then my theory goes out the door.
My 2016 Zero DSR has no electrical reference to ground that I’m aware of & assumed this was due to its EV design & made another assumption that Experia was the same.
I’m curious as to how Experia handles motor static?
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ESokoloff and Specter please dial it back a few notches the quips and jabs are getting old. Not looking for explanations or a reply but have respect for other members of the forum. First and last warning. Now with that out of the way...
If the Expedia indeed uses the chassis as 12v ground then my theory goes out the door.
My 2016 Zero DSR has no electrical reference to ground that I’m aware of & assumed this was due to its EV design & made another assumption that Experia was the same.
I confirm Energica uses the frame as the 12V ground reference. The HV+,- are floated but the 12V system is wired just like any ICE motorcycle.
There is continuity between the frame and triple trees resulting in no voltage differential.
The Energica motor is tested and confirms to EU regulations for EMF radiation. Do not have specifics on how it manages all of it's isolation. I can say that all 3 phase wires have a braided wire shielding layer that is grounded at the motor and inverter sides, this also provides HV leak detection.
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ESokoloff and Specter please dial it back a few notches the quips and jabs are getting old. Not looking for explanations or a reply but have respect for other members of the forum. First and last warning. Now with that out of the way...
If the Expedia indeed uses the chassis as 12v ground then my theory goes out the door.
My 2016 Zero DSR has no electrical reference to ground that I’m aware of & assumed this was due to its EV design & made another assumption that Experia was the same.
I confirm Energica uses the frame as the 12V ground reference. The HV+,- are floated but the 12V system is wired just like any ICE motorcycle.
There is continuity between the frame and triple trees resulting in no voltage differential.
The Energica motor is tested and confirms to EU regulations for EMF radiation. Do not have specifics on how it manages all of it's isolation. I can say that all 3 phase wires have a braided wire shielding layer that is grounded at the motor and inverter sides, this also provides HV leak detection.
Who started the attacks?
Just so there is common understanding with what I propose is at play & in need of confirmation or proof of non existence is as follows.
3 ph AC motors controlled via a VFD produce static electricity that will cause EDM bearing damage if not mitigated.
The fact that this bike has had 3 bearing failures via 3 mechanics using 3 different manufacturers to me rules out materials & installation faults.
If the bearing alignment was at fault it seems like it would managed immediately.
The failure rate is a predictive time frame so I felt that EDM was THE cause.
I shouldn’t have been so positive of it but merely suggest that it be ruled out which I did by suggesting confirming that the head stock is bonded to the frame thus eliminating any chance of EDM through the bearings.
You say that there is continuity between the frame/head stock.
Is this via a common ground or bond conductor (as apposed to via the roller bearings)?
I got/get the sense that Spector doesn’t understand what I was trying to convey
& blindly shot it down via the first volley.
Also I miss spoke when I wrote that my Zero has no electrical reference to the frame.
The onboard charger/level one power source (115vac) & frame are referenced to mains earth ground.
Motoproponent & others experiencing this issue keep us up to date on this “who done-it” mystery.
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Before coming to the conclusion that some sort of electric leakage is causing damage to the head bearings (not impossible, but not plausible either) why not ask if the bearing seat is machined correctly? There might be minor misalignment that accelerates bearing failure. In my experience one of the most common failure of properly lubricated and correctly mounted bearings. It doesn't take much. Maybe if we see a photo of failed bearings it would be easier to make educated guess as to the cause of failure. Electrical discharge will eat a hole into the surface.
Another possibility is under-specced bearings. That are not strong enough to withstand the forces in small number of cases.
Another possibility is water getting into the bearings. Either through damaged seal or some other way. I remember replacing bearings in a motor three times in five years, before figuring out that the people working with the equipment used pressure washer to clean after each shift. Then we made a new cover and as far as I know the motor has now been running for 30 years.
Another possibility is bad batch of bearings.
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Years ago I owned a 20K-mile 1992 Honda CB750 that after 10 years developed stiff turning and notchy-feeling steering bearings. So I had them replaced and asked for the (ball-type) bearings and races to be returned to me. It turned out that the bearings were in perfect condition. The problem was that the grease had dried out and had turned hard and stiff. Once I cleaned out the old grease, I was amazed that the bearings and their races looked and felt like new.
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yeah, it's definitely not old grease.
I will look and see if I still have the old bearing races. I don't think I do, but I will say that the outer race has a series of vertical lines visible. They were spaced to coincide with the contact of the rollers. If you cleaned the race you can just barely feel them with your fingernail. And only three or four would be detectible with the fingernail, but all the contact points were visible to the eye. long linear, regularly spaced vertical marks.
I don't think that is consistent with EDM damage.
The front of the lower triple has some of the black coating rubbed off. How could I check for an improperly machined seat or something else that would misalign the steering stem?
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that sounds like a lubrication issue, or pehaps they were over tightened. damage can accumulate over time as well, from the repetitive back and forth. misalignment maybe from the overtighten crunched one side down a bit or something?
yes pictures would be great, so we can see exactly what the damage looks like.
normally when those bearings fail, it's damage, from over tightening, they took a shock, maybe in a crash, or smashed a pothole real hard, notched it and it want from there. or lubrication issues. grease dries out, was not put in properly, or moisture gets in, starts to rust stuff or compromises the quality of the lube and it starts going from there.
edm damage will look kind of like spiderwebs, and will leave little craters in the metal, because what's happening is the arc is vaporizing the metal at point of inception so if you magnify it, it looks like a little meteor crater.
i wonder if those lines coincide with limits of travel? curious.
aaron
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……
the outer race has a series of vertical lines visible. They were spaced to coincide with the contact of the rollers. If you cleaned the race you can just barely feel them with your fingernail. And only three or four would be detectible with the fingernail, but all the contact points were visible to the eye. long linear, regularly spaced vertical marks.
I don't think that is consistent with EDM damage.
……….
https://www.google.com/search?q=false+brinelling+vs+fluting&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
From this side of the keyboard it sounds like false binelling caused by being continuously subjected to constant vibration @ standstill (which is most of the operating time) or fluting caused by electrical current.
Are the roads you ride excessively rough?
Per chance do you feel any vibrations in the steering on a smooth section of road?
If you take your hands off the bars will the steering go into tankslapper mode?
As previously stated I had to change the bearings on my Zero @ 45k miles & I packed the new ones with AeroShell 14
https://www.shell.com/business-customers/aviation/aeroshell/aeroshell-greases/aeroshell-grease-14.html
as it has properties designed for bearings that don’t move far (rotate) but move constantly.
Now at 95k miles & no issues.
Suggest you contact bearing suppliers to discuss your issue & see what they have to say about bearing wear cause & cure (including lubrication recommendations).
10,000 miles is what, 225 operating hours? (based on 40mph avg).
That low of hours is nothing to a bearing in a NORMAL application.
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Are the roads you ride excessively rough?
Lol, San Francisco Bay Area roads are basically third world. Plus when I go out for a fun ride I'm all about the backroads we call "goaty". Like a goat trail with deteriorated surface, usually no pavement markers and a lot of tree roots and potholes.
So, yes...90% of the roads I ride are excessively rough.
Suggest you contact bearing suppliers to discuss your issue & see what they have to say about bearing wear cause & cure (including lubrication recommendations).
10,000 miles is what, 225 operating hours? (based on 40mph avg).
That low of hours is nothing to a bearing in a NORMAL application.
My bearing suppliers are teenagers with a parts look up computer that cant sell me an 1157 light bulb if I don't give them the year, make, and model of a car that uses them (because they don't sell motorcycle parts so telling them its for a 1979 Kawasaki shuts them down like a switch). If i don't give them the part number they don't know what the bearing is much less an alternative application that would meet my use case better.
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Are the roads you ride excessively rough?
Lol, San Francisco Bay Area roads are basically third world. Plus when I go out for a fun ride I'm all about the backroads we call "goaty". Like a goat trail with deteriorated surface, usually no pavement markers and a lot of tree roots and potholes.
So, yes...90% of the roads I ride are excessively rough.
Suggest you contact bearing suppliers to discuss your issue & see what they have to say about bearing wear cause & cure (including lubrication recommendations).
10,000 miles is what, 225 operating hours? (based on 40mph avg).
That low of hours is nothing to a bearing in a NORMAL application.
My bearing suppliers are teenagers with a parts look up computer that cant sell me an 1157 light bulb if I don't give them the year, make, and model of a car that uses them (because they don't sell motorcycle parts so telling them its for a 1979 Kawasaki shuts them down like a switch). If i don't give them the part number they don't know what the bearing is much less an alternative application that would meet my use case better.
Do you still have all your fillings?
Pondering this a bit more I’m thinking that the new roller bearings need an initial tension adjustment followed by a re-adjustment after they “seat”.
Any chance you know the position of the races in relation to front/back of the bike?
You wrote that the race(s) had marks consistent to the bearing count & that the indent depth wasn’t consistent.
Theorizing that with loose bearings the excess play would allow greater contact force (banging) on the back of the bottom bearing & the front side of the top bearing as the bottom bearing would act as a fulcrum to the shock tubes acting as levers when encountering rough road surfaces.
Obviously this bearing wear (TRUE Brinelling [not False Brinelling/miss spoke]) is not exclusive to Energica so ask for advice via other motorcycle resources.
https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/how-often-do-you-re-torque-the-steering-head-bearings-if-they-seem-ok.176846/
SKF Suport
https://www.skf.com/us/support/contact/technical-support
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mp, do you have any motor rewind shops around, or alternator repair places, or even flat out bearing suppliers like barry bearing.
they should be able to cross you with other manu's or even find stuff given the specs you give, what you need it for etc etc.
i remember in the navy a few times, we had issues, and the supply system was shit, didn't have things and with a bit of creativity and knowing who / where and most importantly what to ask, were able to figure out that, the bearing i needed for my jacking gear motor was the same as on a pump that is used in nuke stuff in specific apps, and also used by skippy in one of their peanut butter pumps... of all places. so once you know of different places this may be found, a bit more detectiving, can get you to a part you need hopefully. just remember if changing orientation, axial vs radial as an example, that you may need a bearing that supports a thrust component too.
aaron
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My plan for now is to wait and see if the suspension adjustment has any effect on the rate of wear.
I'll let other Experia owners catch up to me in mileage and see if it's and Experia issue or an Experia VIN#0094 issue.
I have no trouble getting SKF bearings at a good price, and now that I have all the tools its a 1 day DIY job to replace the head bearings. Each replacement is more data and eventually we (collectively me, the forum, and @Demoni with Energica and Co in South San Francisco) will figure it out.
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A vid on checking/adjusting head bearings
https://youtu.be/Vl5RznButY0?si=MXXZ5rc4Ixs1qZOP
And lubing
https://youtu.be/C9AVE_Bym90?si=bI3hubKAl_apsSXy
I’ve not touched/looked at my 2003 BMW R1150RT with 145k miles nor my 2016 Zero DSR with 95k miles but your mileage/needs may differ.
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good luck with your study, hopefully something gets figured out here.
aaron
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Hi All, sorry if this has already been stated but! Just adding to the discussion on headrace bearing and the Experia. my bike has done 4000 miles. It had a fork oil seal fail which was done under warranty and when it came back from the now defunct dealer the steering felt different. it feels like the headrace bearings are too tight wandering left to right slightly.
so i D/L the workshop manual and i think it is wrong.
It states to pre-load the bearing (tapper type) Tighten the indicated screw to the torque value of 30 Nm / 22.1 ft lb.... then it tells you to install the forks this is before you have put the top yoke in place. What it does not say is turn from left to right to bed the bearings then back them off and re-adjust to remove any play.
in other words what i am saying is with every other bike i have owned (many) that have had taper bearing you pre load, seat then back of and adjust to remove any play only. i believe that leaving the bearings loaded to the value of 30 Nm / 22.1 ft lb.. will be too tight and cause handling issue with early failure.
i could be wrong but..................
I will be having mine apart once i can work out a good repeatable way of jacking it up without the center stand i am owed by Energica!!!!!
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I just swaped my Experia bearings at 13.300 km.
I‘m pretty sure the 40Nm mentioned in the manual is way to much.
A pro I asked also thinks the marks are from too tight mounting at manufakturer
I tightened it now like I feel it’s right - like I always do.
Runs fine so far 😊
Bearing is just a common part every shop can order.
I got me FAG now.
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Agree with Kradblatt. My Ohlins specialist commented on my Ribelle bearings being rough at 16 k km. My dealer also noticed and replaced them at 24k km. My dealer used correct amount of grease and mounted with TLC. Now 67k km and steering still runs so nice.
He has replaced bearings of numerous Experias: all had too little grease ( owners who clearned with foam and pressure washer had earliest complaints) and were torqued too tight or with little attention. Dutch climate also doesn’t help.
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cleaning with a pressure washer is always going to cause grief. Some stuff is not made to be hit with 2000 psi. Especially when you are dealing with seals and hv stuff, a pressure washer is really asking for it.
Given the MoO of this bearing, I wonder how they came into the grease issue. This is something that too little grease is bad, as many of you all are seeing but on the other hand, ample, a lot of grease, really would not harm much. If this was a manu defect, im curious if someone changed a part out or tweaked a process and didn't re check everything, because otherwise, Energica seems pretty tight on their QA on stuff. Im thinking over torque would cause more damage than a bit too little grease.
Luckily it's something that is fairly easy to fix, is not Energica only, and is not catastrophic in failure mode.
Aaron
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Agreed that excessive bearing preload on steering-head is not good and one is at the mercy of a torque spec that may not be right in all cases.
If the tool was a hook-wrench instead of a castle-nut-socket then the preload can be adjusted the BMW way, no?
Meaning, front end stays fully assembled, preload judged by slowly rotating bars and when they barely drop full turn when biased off-center due to gravity, the setting is right.
Hook wrench should work...just need to loosen center lock nut and upper tree clamp to make the adjustment, or is this not true?
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Hook wrench should work...just need to loosen center lock nut and upper tree clamp to make the adjustment, or is this not true?
A hook spanner wont work. It's requires a 46mm socket.
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Hook wrench should work...just need to loosen center lock nut and upper tree clamp to make the adjustment, or is this not true?
A hook spanner wont work. It's requires a 46mm socket.
You are probably correct, but heck if I'm gonna take the flippen triple-tree down just to make a steering-head adjustment...just ordered brass rod to fashion a suitable punch after riding today to assess the handling...felt a tad loose.
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You are probably correct, but heck if I'm gonna take the flippen triple-tree down just to make a steering-head adjustment...just ordered brass rod to fashion a suitable punch after riding today to assess the handling...felt a tad loose.
If you did want to try and use a punch to adjust the steering head adjustment nut you need to remove 4 bolts securing the clamp for the handlebars to access the top triple tree bolt.
It's really not much more work to also loosen the 2 fork clamp bolts to pull the entire top triple clamp off.
Just checked my Ducati 900ss and BMW F800GS service manuals and both state there is a initial preload torque (to seat the bearings) of 30Nm. Then you are suppose to back the adjuster off 90* and then set a final torque of 15NM (Ducati) or 20Nm (BMW).
As I have replaced a number of Experia steering head bearings on bikes (@ 10-15k miles) I suspect a slightly lower bearing preload torque would reduce the wear of the bearing races.
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in your experience, do other models have the same problem, a 21 ribelle in my case ?
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in your experience, do other models have the same problem, a 21 ribelle in my case ?
The EGO, EVA and EsseEsse9 use different headset bearings vs the Experia. Your bike is fitted with SKF Solid Oil bearings.
https://www.skf.com/in/products/rolling-bearings/engineered-products/bearings-with-solid-oil (https://www.skf.com/in/products/rolling-bearings/engineered-products/bearings-with-solid-oil)
The diameter of the bearings and their races are much larger resulting in the load being spread over a larger area.
I have yet to replace this style of bearings due to wear. They can be damaged in a hard crash where the front of the bike takes a impact.
The only drawback is I have been unable to locate a SKF part number or supplier for replacements.
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thanks!