ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: smithy on January 14, 2025, 03:25:02 AM
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Hi All,
I believe I may be the first in Australia to have an Experia motor to play with. My local dealer (and friend) was kind enough to allow me to take a removed/warranty motor home to play with...I believe Energica supplied a replacement motor for the original bike approx 18months ago. As I understand it, the sprocket output seal was leaking...but instead of just replacing the seal, they replaced the whole motor.
I was able to pull the little gearcase cover and motor side cover off and have a poke around inside....was very interesting to see the drive & driven gears along with their roller bearings & seals etc...
The gears and roller bearings themselves are quite robust and are high quality items, using SKF roller bearings. The front sprocket retaining nut and lock washer and the "drive gear" retaining nut and washer are identical and use the same KM5 tool to disassemble. Below is a pic of the drive gear which is connected to the actual motor rotor...23 teeth. The "driven" gear has 52 teeth, so a reduction of 2.26:1 in the little gearcase.
I'll put up some more pics of other items if anyone is interested.
Smithy.
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I‘d love to see plenty - riding an Experia myself w/o issues on the motor.
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I‘d love to see plenty - riding an Experia myself w/o issues on the motor.
Here's a pic of the "rotor" inside the motor case windings:
Anything in particular you'd like to see..??
Smithy.
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Wow, thank you for sharing this!
Regarding the gear: So this is how the noise generator of our bikes looks like! TBH this is a bit demystifying for me ;D
When I hear gearbox I had more something like multiple differently sized helical pinions on several shafts in my mind.
OK, this is just a one-step reduction, so just two pinions are enough. Still it apperars a bit banal :P
Regarding the motor, this is a hybrid type, right? I am not an electrical guy, so where are the magnets?
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What do you mean by hybrid? Reluctance hybrid?
I believe, It's a regular permanent magnet synchronous motor, like many (most) other EV motors. The magnets are sitting inside the rotor (center part), but they won't be visible from the front (or at all).
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so where are the magnets?
On the rotor, the thingy that rotates. The stator is the stationary coil around it. It serves as both a motor as well as a generator for the regen.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Here's a pic of the "rotor" inside the motor case windings:
The 90th motor off the production line, from the serial number?
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Here's a pic of the "rotor" inside the motor case windings:
The 90th motor off the production line, from the serial number?
Possibly, it came of one of the very first Experias in Australia....VIN #27-ish. Mine is VIN #29.
Smithy.
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Wow, thank you for sharing this!
Regarding the gear: So this is how the noise generator of our bikes looks like! TBH this is a bit demystifying for me ;D
When I hear gearbox I had more something like multiple differently sized helical pinions on several shafts in my mind.
OK, this is just a one-step reduction, so just two pinions are enough. Still it apperars a bit banal :P
Regarding the motor, this is a hybrid type, right? I am not an electrical guy, so where are the magnets?
There's only two "straight cut" gears in the Experia...they don't use helical gears as this produces side loading and requires radial and axial thrust type bearings to hold them.....straight cut gears may be noiser but they're stronger and only require radial roller bearings....simple but very effective.
The ones below are the only gears in the motor, for reference, the Experia motor actually spins backwards in the bike, the other energicas, Ego, Ribelle and SS9 all spin forwards and have 3 gears inside. The Experia motor is significantly lighter and less "bulky" than the others too.
The spline you see on the larger gear is where the front chain sprocket is attached.
Smithy.
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Energica actually went with the straight gear for those reasons, it's easier to build, less parts AND the extra noise, so that you could hear the bikes, at least a little bit. I know some places made e car manufacturers put a noise maker on them so they were not so stealthy and people would not step out in front of them. (so much for looking both ways derp).
Be interesting to use that motor as a Generator, push it with a bio diesel or something.
Aaron
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According to Energica website, the motor in the Experia is a hybrid one, a permanent magnet assisted synchronuous reluctance motor. It is my understanding that this is a marriage ot two different types of electric motors, namely one with and the other without permanent magnets. Maybe it is worthwile to note that there are no rare earth magnets but simple ferritic ones.
Thanks @Smithy for the additional pic! I am convinced that Energica built in the gear primarily as a noisemaker. ;D From the technical point it makes not so much sense to reduce the rpm of a motor which is frequency controlled and could run at lower rpm anyway, does it?
Straight toothed gear was cheaper in the past when CNC machinery was expensive, today helical toothed gears are cheaper because you can transfer the same power with smaller teeth, i.e. your gear gets smaller. The reason behind this is that while two straight toothed pinions have contact in one tooth at a time, two helical geared pinions have always contact in 1.5 teeth.
That is also the reason why helical gear is less noisy, the transfer of forces is smoother.
Of course, helical gears produce side forces that have to be considered when designing the bearings and casing, but that is not rocket science.
In the EU it is, since July 2021, mandatory for electric cars and trucks to produce sound (sound pressure of 56-75 dB(A) in 2 m distance) at speeds below 20 km/h, it is called AVAS - Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System.
Motorcycles and other vehicle types are not included, but maybe should. The other day I met a guy riding a RGNT electric motorcycle which is running with a rear wheel hub motor, practically noiseless at low speeds.
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To be honest, the thing could be making 1000 db noise and the tard staring at their phone is not going to hear it / pay attention to it anyways and still step in front of it, unless they run into a light pole first. Then you got the Einstein's with their earbuds in. Should have listened to momma, well probably should say great grand mama now, since common sense seems to have skipped a few generations, and look both ways before crossing or stepping out into the street.
The other day I seen an Electric, I want to say . corvette or mustang or one of them muscle cars and it had speakers on it and was making engine revving and backfire sounds, was pretty funny to see actually.
In 20 years, I can see them bitching about all the sound pollution from the electric vehicles and there needs to be a limit to how loud the speakers can get. Hey wow man I got a 4000 watt car noise maker, wanna hear it??
Aaron
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The ones below are the only gears in the motor, for reference, the Experia motor actually spins backwards in the bike, the other energicas, Ego, Ribelle and SS9 all spin forwards and have 3 gears inside. The Experia motor is significantly lighter and less "bulky" than the others too.
interesting, I guess the experia is also less noisy then ?
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The noise seems about the same to me. Then again once you get on the road, wind noise drowns it out.
Aaron