ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: most on September 26, 2024, 09:16:39 PM
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Hi folks,
after some 16.500kms my front sprocket is toast and I'm in business for a new set of sprockets and chain. Surprisingly, I could not find specs on the chain.
The only hint was here in the forum:
I have fitted a new chain and sprockets at 12,700km as I found a couple of "tight links" in the original Regina chain, (I'm not a fan of Regina chains), I fitted new sprockets and a DID ZVMX 520 chain and it has been issue free since fitting. I went up 1 tooth on the front from 15t to 16t to get the speedo reading correctly, it's now within +/-1kmh now, so I'm well chuffed. Front sprocket is a 520 Aprillia Tuono item and the 520 52t aluminium rear sprocket is a Vortex item.
@smithy - would you care to share some more details on what sprockets exactly you have used, like what MY/displacement? If purchased online I'd appreciate a link to be sure I get the right ones. Also, I was wondering if the Experia is really using a 520 chain and not 525 as the Ribelle/SS9 is using - so you are super sure with that? I'd also appreciate the chain length. Again, 120 is mentioned for Ribelle and SS9. Probably need to count...
Thanks for posting any specs!
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@smithy - would you care to share some more details on what sprockets exactly you have used, like what MY/displacement? If purchased online I'd appreciate a link to be sure I get the right ones. Also, I was wondering if the Experia is really using a 520 chain and not 525 as the Ribelle/SS9 is using - so you are super sure with that? I'd also appreciate the chain length. Again, 120 is mentioned for Ribelle and SS9. Probably need to count...
Thanks for posting any specs!
The Experia is the only one of the Energicas which use the 520 chain & sprockets, all the others are 525. The OEM rear sprocket on the Experia is also aluminium.
The Energicas use the Aprillia front sprocket splines so 90% of the Aprillia sprockets will fit, Tuono, RSV etc..
https://www.motoracingshop.com/en/front-sprocket-520-racing-chain-pbr-for-aprilia-rsv-1000.html
Rear sprocket I used is a Vortex aluminium 52t which I bought from "Brocks Performance", these also fit a lot of the aftermarket carbon wheels etc...
https://brocksperformance.com/wheels/sprockets/rear-sprockets/bst-sprockets/520-chain/
You'll also need the special front sprocket nut tool.
https://www.amazon.com.au/BGS-8337-5-Nutmutternschl%C3%BCssel-liegend-External/dp/B084GPBXWD
Smithy.
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Perfect writeup - thanks a lot!!
From your link I see it has in ID of 76mm and pitch circle of 100mm. I guess just any 520 sprocket will do that meets that interface and has 52T. I don‘t like that Vortex sprocket too much and would prefer to go with a cleaner look of the original Sitta - just not available in any shop around the corner in 52T. But I will keep on looking.
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Try JT Sprockets, Superlite, AFAM or Supersprox as a source for sprockets, the latter even do made-to-measure jobs with color options. Delivery time can be 3 months, though.
There are front sprockets available which have thick rubber rings on the sides for noise reduction. I tried them but could not find any difference to the common one, so not worth the money in my view.
The front sprocket tool I got from Amazon for less than 20 €. When changing the front sprocket, I recommend to change the star-shaped locking plate as well, it's only 2 €.
As for chains, I do not recommend Regina, especially not the expensive HPE. The claim of 'maintenance free' is an outright lie.
Currently I have a Enuma chain (Japanese manufacturer) with 25.000 km on it and it's still OK. Advantage of this chain is a screw-on connector link, so I didn't need a special chain tool for installation. You get them at Louis or cheaper at Kawa-Schrauber.de.
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Im running a 520 on my race bike. It's a bit lighter but yes the lower powered energica's will take the 520. If you decide to play around with tooth count, be mindful that if you deviate far it might start messing with your traction control, or potentially ABS.
THis is one thing I wish energica could put in their normal software is a tooth count so it could calibrate it's measuring better. It's on the race bike, but they probably figure most normal people are not going to be playing with that stuff, so didn't include in regular software.
aaron
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Arron thanks - that’s a good hint!
In fact, I have chosen a 16T front sprocket. That 7% difference will probably correct the speedo to show the true speed. For the rear I will stay with the original Sitta sprocket - I like the design.
Surprisingly, I was not able to find it anywhere in the net. All Sitta sprockets for the Experia rim I could find end with 48T. No 52T. I had to order it through my dealer from Energica for 70€. Well let‘s see how long this will take.
I got all tools and a DID ZVMX chain, just waiting on the rear sprocket.
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Im running a 520 on my race bike. It's a bit lighter but yes the lower powered energica's will take the 520. If you decide to play around with tooth count, be mindful that if you deviate far it might start messing with your traction control, or potentially ABS.
THis is one thing I wish energica could put in their normal software is a tooth count so it could calibrate it's measuring better. It's on the race bike, but they probably figure most normal people are not going to be playing with that stuff, so didn't include in regular software.
aaron
Changing sprocket tooth counts has no effect on the ABS or traction control...all the ABS and T/C information is taken from wheel speed not motor rpm...it's only an issue if you dramatically change tyre sizes. The speedo is indeed taken from motor rpm which is why changing the front sprocket to a 16t on the Experia will have the speedo near spot-on.
Smithy.
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just as a review.
The Stock front sprocket is 16 teeth
The Stock Rear sprocket is 52 teeth
the Stock Chain is 520 pitch with 120 links.
Is that right?
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just as a review.
The Stock front sprocket is 16 teeth
The Stock Rear sprocket is 52 teeth
the Stock Chain is 520 pitch with 120 links.
Is that right?
Stock Experia front sprocket is 15t, not 16t....the rest is correct.
Smithy.
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Got it. Thanks
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Found some time and changed the chain.
WOW.
What a difference in noise level! Even when the stock chain was new which happens with new bikes ;), it was not THAT low. And those of you who ever changed a chain might also have noticed a lower noise.
I have the habit of thoroughly cleaning the chain after ca. 800-1.500km, depending on the road conditions and how dirty it looks. I do apply chain lube regularly, so I can say it does not lack any maintenance. I also realized after some 8.000kms that the chain had slight tendencies to become unevenly long - this also has added to the noise recently. Furthermore, also the larger sprocket 16T vs. the stock 15T will add to a low noise. Certainly not too much, but it definitely does.
Well guys, in case you consider a new chain - do it sooner than later! You will hear the difference!
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The roads out here trashed my chain real fast. We have that silt and that shit gets into everything and just tears it up. I agree with you that you don't notice it because it comes on slow but when you do put a new one on, it's like wow, that made a big difference.
aaron
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Ordered a custom superprox aluminum 52T rear (they produce 49/50t options with the stock already)
Gambled [ and LOST] on a 16t front from the aprilia 660s since I have one floating around the garage already. If the splines/offsets work out [they don't], that's an easy replacement vs the "special" 520 size sprockets for the RSV4.
If I'd thought the whole exercise through, I'd have gone for a 15t front and one of the 49/50t supersprox for similar gearing change and not paying the custom order price/delay penalty.
Now I get to twiddle my thumbs for a month or two.
Edit: the aprilia 660s (tuareg/tuono/rs) have different spline count and offset. Zero compatibility.
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Ordered a custom superprox aluminum 52T rear (they produce 49/50t options with the stock already)
Gambled on a 16t front from the aprilia 660s since I have one floating around the garage already. If the splines/offsets work out, that's an easy replacement vs the "special" 520 size sprockets for the RSV4.
If I'd thought the whole exercise through, I'd have gone for a 15t front and one of the 49/50t supersprox for similar gearing change and not paying the custom order price/delay penalty.
Now I get to twiddle my thumbs for a month or two.
I'm also in the process of ordering a 52 tooth SuperSprox. Aluminum carrier with the steel chain ring. When I get it installed I'll post back and we can compare notes. I also got an aftermarket replacement front in the stock 15 tooth configuration from AF1. SKU AF61601-15.
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Ordered a custom superprox aluminum 52T rear (they produce 49/50t options with the stock already)
Gambled on a 16t front from the aprilia 660s since I have one floating around the garage already. If the splines/offsets work out, that's an easy replacement vs the "special" 520 size sprockets for the RSV4.
If I'd thought the whole exercise through, I'd have gone for a 15t front and one of the 49/50t supersprox for similar gearing change and not paying the custom order price/delay penalty.
Now I get to twiddle my thumbs for a month or two.
I'm also in the process of ordering a 52 tooth SuperSprox. Aluminum carrier with the steel chain ring. When I get it installed I'll post back and we can compare notes. I also got an aftermarket replacement front in the stock 15 tooth configuration from AF1. SKU AF61601-15.
Staying with the 15t front sprocket will have your Experia still showing 7-8% out on the speedo. Changing to a 16t will have it near perfect.
Smithy.
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Thanks @smithy.
I'll try that on the next sprocket chain change.
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Found some time and changed the chain.
WOW.
What a difference in noise level! Even when the stock chain was new which happens with new bikes ;), it was not THAT low. And those of you who ever changed a chain might also have noticed a lower noise.
I have the habit of thoroughly cleaning the chain after ca. 800-1.500km, depending on the road conditions and how dirty it looks. I do apply chain lube regularly, so I can say it does not lack any maintenance. I also realized after some 8.000kms that the chain had slight tendencies to become unevenly long - this also has added to the noise recently. Furthermore, also the larger sprocket 16T vs. the stock 15T will add to a low noise. Certainly not too much, but it definitely does.
Well guys, in case you consider a new chain - do it sooner than later! You will hear the difference!
Thanks for the feedback, I'll order mine now. Can you tell me which front sprocket(brand/model) you used?
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Sure!
This one, rather randomly on eBay: https://ebay.us/m/KvyOeM (https://ebay.us/m/KvyOeM)
I was simply following the tips that were posted earlier in this thread:
DID ZVMX 520, 120links
Front sprocket:
15T => 16T 520 Aprilia Tuono
PBR 2078 or AFAM 61801 or JT Sprockets JTF704
Tool for ringnut SKF KM5
Rear Sprocket:
52T 520 Vortex Alu Rear Sprocket
AFAM 92630
Good hunt!
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Sure!
This one, rather randomly on eBay: https://ebay.us/m/KvyOeM (https://ebay.us/m/KvyOeM)
I was simply following the tips that were posted earlier in this thread:
DID ZVMX 520, 120links
Front sprocket:
15T => 16T 520 Aprilia Tuono
PBR 2078 or AFAM 61801 or JT Sprockets JTF704
Tool for ringnut SKF KM5
Rear Sprocket:
52T 520 Vortex Alu Rear Sprocket
AFAM 92630
Good hunt!
The rear sprocket from Vortex is an 840A-52. https://brocksperformance.com/vortex-840-rear-sprocket-for-bst-wheels-52t-black-silver-525-chain/
I don't bother with the silly slotted nut anymore, I just use a proper hex nut now, no need for the silly tool, just a normal 32mm socket, so much easier. Why Energica felt the need to use a slotted nut is beyond me. ???
Smithy.
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Sure!
This one, rather randomly on eBay: https://ebay.us/m/KvyOeM (https://ebay.us/m/KvyOeM)
I was simply following the tips that were posted earlier in this thread:
DID ZVMX 520, 120links
Front sprocket:
15T => 16T 520 Aprilia Tuono
PBR 2078 or AFAM 61801 or JT Sprockets JTF704
Tool for ringnut SKF KM5
Rear Sprocket:
52T 520 Vortex Alu Rear Sprocket
AFAM 92630
Good hunt!
I don't bother with the silly castleated nut anymore, I just use a proper hex nut now, no need for the silly tool, just a normal 32mm socket.
Smithy.
Brilliant!
What are the exact specs of that nut. Is it the same as the Rebelle?
I will pick one up for sure!
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I don't bother with the silly castleated nut anymore, I just use a proper hex nut now, no need for the silly tool, just a normal 32mm socket.
Smithy.
Brilliant!
What are the exact specs of that nut. Is it the same as the Rebelle?
I will pick one up for sure!
[/quote]
I think you'll find the rear axle nut on your Ribelle may be the same thread...try it first... The Experia rear axle nut fits....25 x 1.5mm thread. I just bought a few nuts with the correct thread off fleabay.
Smithy.
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I don't bother with the silly castleated nut anymore, I just use a proper hex nut now, no need for the silly tool, just a normal 32mm socket.
Smithy.
Brilliant!
What are the exact specs of that nut. Is it the same as the Rebelle?
I will pick one up for sure!
I think you'll find the rear axle nut on your Ribelle may be the same thread...try it first... The Experia rear axle nut fits....25 x 1.5mm thread. I just bought a few nuts with the correct thread off fleabay.
Smithy.
[/quote]
Awesome. Thanks!
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a regular nut works fine, castellated / cotter keyed is more work that is not needed. Make sure you have a good washer / crush ring whatever you want to call it behind it to help keep it snug.
Also, as a general info item, you should give them a quick look every time you get on the bike, make sure it looks ok, isn't backing out or other oddities.
Aaron
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a regular nut works fine, castellated / cotter keyed is more work that is not needed. Make sure you have a good washer / crush ring whatever you want to call it behind it to help keep it snug.
Also, as a general info item, you should give them a quick look every time you get on the bike, make sure it looks ok, isn't backing out or other oddities.
Aaron
A bit difficult to do every time you get on the bike....it's behind the sprocket cover...who's going to take that off every time they go for a ride...?? Not many...I suspect.
Smithy.
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my bad smithy i was thinking about the rear nut. The front one, correct me if I am wrong but isn't it in a manner that the motor spinning would actually tighten it? if that's the case then do you really need a castle nut?
aaron
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my bad smithy i was thinking about the rear nut. The front one, correct me if I am wrong but isn't it in a manner that the motor spinning would actually tighten it? if that's the case then do you really need a castle nut?
aaron
All good...and correct, the normal rotation of the front sprocket would tend to tighten the nut....they're done up to a silly torque anyway, 190nm, so it's not coming undone in a hurry. The rear axle nut is only 70nm.
The exact same slotted nut is also used on the motor rotor gear inside the gear case...but the motor rotor in the Experia spins backwards so that would tend to try and undo itself... so a positive way of locking that nut would probably be a better choice. I don't know the correct torque for this slotted nut as the Experia service manual doesn't mention anything "inside" the motor at all....it only tells you how to remove the complete motor. One would assume it would be similar to the front sprocket nut since they're identical with an identical shaft thread etc. There's no positive way to hold the rotor whilst doing up the nut on the rotor gear so all I could do was hit it with my rattle gun until the original alignment marks lined up...then lock it in place with the tab washer.
Smithy.
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....they're done up to a silly torque anyway, 190nm, so it's not coming undone in a hurry. The rear axle nut is only 70nm.
Smithy.
How do you hold the driveline to apply that kind of torque? I could not get the rear brake to hold it. I ended up just putting it on with an impact wrench and hoping the bent washer would keep it from backing off.
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Guys, I never would fiddle with something so important like the front sprocket nut.
The 190 Nm tightening might seem excessive to you, but don't forget that the bike can produce well over 200 Nm of torque and under recuperation the force will work to undo the nut!
Some time ago, when I cleaned the front sprocket cover I saw that the nut had wiggled itself out of the safety washer. Obviously I hadn't installed it correctly.
So please, stay safe and don't mess with that!
BTW, what you can see on the pic is a rubberised sprocket which might lessen the noise coming from there. It's from Esjot, but I think you can get something similar from JT as well.
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....they're done up to a silly torque anyway, 190nm, so it's not coming undone in a hurry. The rear axle nut is only 70nm.
Smithy.
How do you hold the driveline to apply that kind of torque? I could not get the rear brake to hold it. I ended up just putting it on with an impact wrench and hoping the bent washer would keep it from backing off.
With the weight of the bike on the rear tire and rear brake fully applied (chain in place ) you should be able to lock it up enough to get the required torque value. The impact gun idea might work if you know what the final toque value turns out to be. If it is 25% less than spec, it might not be good enough.
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Yep the brake didn't hold it. Even with a 200 pound rider sitting on the bike holding the rear brake.
It's kind of a moot point any way since my torque wrench only goes up to 120 lb/ft.
Next time I think I'm going to back the bike up against the wall to hold it. But hopefully that will be 20,000 more miles from now.
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Yep the brake didn't hold it. Even with a 200 pound rider sitting on the bike holding the rear brake.
It's kind of a moot point any way since my torque wrench only goes up to 120 lb/ft.
Next time I think I'm going to back the bike up against the wall to hold it. But hopefully that will be 20,000 more miles from now.
I am using a DN 50 steelpipe and stick it through the rear wheel underneath the swing arm. When you tighten the sprocket nut the pipe wedges between swing arm and wheel spoke, providing an effective stop. I cushioned the pipe section with ducttape to avoid scratching the spoke. Hopefully it’s understandable what I meant.
When you apply the 190 Nm torque, it’s advisable to have another person holding the bike a bit.
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....they're done up to a silly torque anyway, 190nm, so it's not coming undone in a hurry. The rear axle nut is only 70nm.
Smithy.
How do you hold the driveline to apply that kind of torque? I could not get the rear brake to hold it. I ended up just putting it on with an impact wrench and hoping the bent washer would keep it from backing off.
I use the same method as our "jotjotde", a very simple method, with the rear wheel lifted via a paddock stand, I put a "padded" bar through the front part of the wheel and "under" the swingarm, this essentially chocks the wheel from turning backwards and allows me to apply as much torque as I like to the sprocket nut...I have a 210nm torque wrench and it can handle the 190nm required. I'll take a photo next time I do it.
Smithy.