ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: pacificcricket on June 15, 2024, 08:54:23 PM
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Folks, I have this 10 year old bike with a firmware that's probably ~4 years old and SoC has been going crazy last couple of years. The bike would charge to 100% but while plugged in would go down to 97% or so within an hour or so. Then when riding SoC drops very fast, which arguably is expected for an old battery, but then I could arrive at my destination at as little as a 0% SoC left, and within an hour of being switched off SoC can go up anywhere from 20 to 30%. Likewise sometimes when getting down to 0% at highway speed, getting to the surface and slowing down to 25-35MPH SoC will start climbing back up to 10-15%.
Any idea what's going on with the BMS ?
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Sounds like one or more weak cells are showing their age. Start watching the cell balance field in your Zero app. You can quickly blip your kill switch at stop lights to see the value shown on your app if you've got your phone easily viewable on the bike during rides. I wouldn't be surprised if it's high double or even triple digits at times.
If you want to be more thorough you can download the bike's logs on your phone and then upload them using Greg's parsing tools: https://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser/log_parser.php
Post the link for the BMS logs here and I can look them over and try and make sense of it.
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Great suggestion, will try to pull the logs and analyze them next time I'm seeing that. Thank you.
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The logs have a TON of archived data in them. It may even go back years. There's no reason to wait. Pull them now.
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Seeing this on the last ride :
04040 06/14/2024 19:37:19 INFO: Enabling Charger 3
04041 06/14/2024 19:37:19 CIB timeout: 5001 ms
04042 06/14/2024 19:37:24 Disarmed PackTemp: h 25C, l 25C, PackSOC: 73%, Vpack:107.588V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 1, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 24C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 21C, MotRPM: 0, Odo:52141km
04043 06/14/2024 19:38:24 Disarmed PackTemp: h 25C, l 25C, PackSOC: 73%, Vpack:107.575V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 0, Mods: 01, MotTemp: 23C, CtrlTemp: 19C, AmbTemp: 21C, MotRPM: 0, Odo:52141km
04044 06/14/2024 19:38:53 DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
04045 06/14/2024 19:38:53 DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
04046 06/14/2024 19:39:24 Riding PackTemp: h 25C, l 24C, PackSOC: 72%, Vpack:107.502V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps: 1, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 25C, CtrlTemp: 20C, AmbTemp: 20C, MotRPM: 255, Odo:52141km
04047 06/14/2024 19:40:24 Riding PackTemp: h 25C, l 24C, PackSOC: 72%, Vpack:108.188V, MotAmps: -68, BattAmps: -36, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 29C, CtrlTemp: 23C, AmbTemp: 20C, MotRPM:2134, Odo:52141km
04048 06/14/2024 19:41:24 Riding PackTemp: h 25C, l 24C, PackSOC: 71%, Vpack:104.037V, MotAmps: 77, BattAmps: 53, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 33C, CtrlTemp: 24C, AmbTemp: 20C, MotRPM:2886, Odo:52142km
04049 06/14/2024 19:42:24 Riding PackTemp: h 25C, l 25C, PackSOC: 68%, Vpack: 99.342V, MotAmps: 111, BattAmps: 107, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 37C, CtrlTemp: 27C, AmbTemp: 19C, MotRPM:3756, Odo:52143km
04050 06/14/2024 19:42:24 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 667 A (97.80%), MinCell: 3526mV, MaxPackTemp: 25C
04051 06/14/2024 19:43:24 Riding PackTemp: h 26C, l 25C, PackSOC: 64%, Vpack: 96.691V, MotAmps: 115, BattAmps: 107, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 41C, CtrlTemp: 28C, AmbTemp: 18C, MotRPM:3758, Odo:52145km
04052 06/14/2024 19:43:24 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 551 A (80.79%), MinCell: 3423mV, MaxPackTemp: 26C
04053 06/14/2024 19:44:24 Riding PackTemp: h 26C, l 26C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack: 96.708V, MotAmps: 114, BattAmps: 109, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 44C, CtrlTemp: 29C, AmbTemp: 19C, MotRPM:3756, Odo:52146km
04054 06/14/2024 19:44:24 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 497 A (72.87%), MinCell: 3408mV, MaxPackTemp: 26C
04055 06/14/2024 19:45:24 Riding PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 51%, Vpack: 94.580V, MotAmps: 113, BattAmps: 113, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 47C, CtrlTemp: 30C, AmbTemp: 19C, MotRPM:3754, Odo:52148km
04056 06/14/2024 19:45:24 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 403 A (59.09%), MinCell: 3317mV, MaxPackTemp: 27C
04057 06/14/2024 19:46:25 Riding PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 40%, Vpack: 93.760V, MotAmps: 102, BattAmps: 113, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 50C, CtrlTemp: 31C, AmbTemp: 19C, MotRPM:3753, Odo:52150km
04058 06/14/2024 19:46:25 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 322 A (47.21%), MinCell: 3285mV, MaxPackTemp: 28C
04059 06/14/2024 19:47:24 Riding PackTemp: h 29C, l 28C, PackSOC: 30%, Vpack: 94.631V, MotAmps: 109, BattAmps: 104, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 52C, CtrlTemp: 31C, AmbTemp: 18C, MotRPM:3759, Odo:52151km
04060 06/14/2024 19:47:24 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 333 A (48.83%), MinCell: 3301mV, MaxPackTemp: 29C
04061 06/14/2024 19:48:24 Riding PackTemp: h 30C, l 29C, PackSOC: 22%, Vpack: 94.335V, MotAmps: 94, BattAmps: 103, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 54C, CtrlTemp: 31C, AmbTemp: 18C, MotRPM:3755, Odo:52153km
04062 06/14/2024 19:48:24 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 330 A (48.39%), MinCell: 3278mV, MaxPackTemp: 30C
04063 06/14/2024 19:49:25 Riding PackTemp: h 31C, l 29C, PackSOC: 14%, Vpack: 93.334V, MotAmps: 106, BattAmps: 116, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 56C, CtrlTemp: 32C, AmbTemp: 18C, MotRPM:3757, Odo:52154km
04064 06/14/2024 19:49:25 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 237 A (34.75%), MinCell: 3243mV, MaxPackTemp: 31C
04065 06/14/2024 19:50:25 Riding PackTemp: h 32C, l 30C, PackSOC: 9%, Vpack: 92.906V, MotAmps: 117, BattAmps: 123, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 57C, CtrlTemp: 32C, AmbTemp: 18C, MotRPM:3753, Odo:52156km
04066 06/14/2024 19:50:25 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 242 A (35.48%), MinCell: 3233mV, MaxPackTemp: 32C
04067 06/14/2024 19:51:25 Riding PackTemp: h 33C, l 31C, PackSOC: 6%, Vpack: 93.582V, MotAmps: 103, BattAmps: 98, Mods: 10, MotTemp: 59C, CtrlTemp: 32C, AmbTemp: 18C, MotRPM:3755, Odo:52158km
04068 06/14/2024 19:51:25 Batt Dischg Cur Limited 167 A (24.49%), MinCell: 3230mV, MaxPackTemp: 33C
04069 06/14/2024 19:52:25 Riding PackTemp: h 34C, l 32C, PackSOC: 4%, Vpack: 92.327V, MotAmps: 0, BattAmps:1860, Mods: 00, MotTemp:16973C, CtrlTemp: 66C, AmbTemp:-14336C, MotRPM:20140, Odo:476295km
04070 0 0x00 ???
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And BMS was reporting this around the same time :
02983 06/14/2024 19:39:15 ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events
02984 06/14/2024 19:39:15 Worst event: 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 23438, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
02985 06/14/2024 19:39:15 ADC Data : 2755, 274F, 2735, 273E, 274B, 2748, 2755, 2747, 274E, 275D, 2754, 2751, 2759, 2756, 275F, F000, 0000, 0000, 2751, 2754, 2752, 2752, 2752, 2756, 275C, 2759, 275D, 274D
02986 06/14/2024 19:39:16 ERROR: 4/6000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(1,0) 2=(2,0) 3=(38,0) 4=(16,0) 5=(10,0)
02987 06/14/2024 19:39:17 Discharge level 025 AH, SOC: 72%, I: 0A, L:3830, l:3832, H:3845, B:015, PT:025C, BT:028C, PV:107530, M:Bike On
02988 06/14/2024 19:39:17 SOC:25510,91076,25520,91080,72,72,72,2
02989 06/14/2024 19:40:15 ERROR: PL536 had 1 invalid cell events
02990 06/14/2024 19:40:15 Worst event: 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
02991 06/14/2024 19:40:15 ADC Data : 2733, 272E, 2718, 271C, 2729, 272C, 2735, 2727, 272F, 2740, 2735, 2731, 2738, 2737, 27FE, 0000, 0000, 0000, 2731, 2736, 2731, 2732, 2732, 2735, 273C, 2738, 273E, 272E
02992 06/14/2024 19:40:17 Discharge level 025 AH, SOC: 72%, I: 21A, L:3776, l:3816, H:3793, B:017, PT:025C, BT:029C, PV:106023, M:Bike On
02993 06/14/2024 19:40:17 SOC:25729,90615,25804,91080,72,71,72,39
02994 06/14/2024 19:41:17 Discharge level 026 AH, SOC: 72%, I: 68A, L:3687, l:3765, H:3706, B:019, PT:025C, BT:029C, PV:103568, M:Bike On
02995 06/14/2024 19:41:17 SOC:25967,89964,26124,91080,72,65,72,77
02996 06/14/2024 19:41:17 ERROR: 1/6000 PL536 Read Attempts Failed. Breakdown: conv- 0, (crc,timeout)- 1=(3,0) 2=(3,0) 3=(29,0) 4=(6,0) 5=(1,0)
02997 06/14/2024 19:42:17 Discharge level 027 AH, SOC: 69%, I:102A, L:3557, l:3705, H:3584, B:027, PT:025C, BT:029C, PV:100029, M:Bike On
02998 06/14/2024 19:42:17 SOC:27503,87079,27662,91080,70,58,69,149
02999 06/14/2024 19:43:17 Discharge level 029 AH, SOC: 65%, I:110A, L:3438, l:3611, H:3485, B:047, PT:026C, BT:030C, PV: 96958, M:Bike On
03000 06/14/2024 19:43:17 SOC:29381,82047,29542,91080,68,43,65,185
03001 06/14/2024 19:43:17 Discharge cutback 82%
03002 06/14/2024 19:43:17 559A
03003 06/14/2024 19:44:17 Discharge level 031 AH, SOC: 59%, I: 91A, L:3405, l:3558, H:3476, B:071, PT:026C, BT:029C, PV: 96560, M:Bike On
03004 06/14/2024 19:44:17 SOC:31103,75732,31266,91080,66,31,59,173
03005 06/14/2024 19:44:17 Discharge cutback 73%
03006 06/14/2024 19:44:17 500A
03007 06/14/2024 19:45:17 Discharge level 033 AH, SOC: 52%, I:120A, L:3346, l:3518, H:3442, B:096, PT:027C, BT:030C, PV: 95390, M:Bike On
03008 06/14/2024 19:45:17 SOC:32884,67822,33048,91080,64,19,52,200
03009 06/14/2024 19:45:17 Discharge cutback 60%
03010 06/14/2024 19:45:17 409A
03011 06/14/2024 19:46:17 Discharge level 034 AH, SOC: 42%, I:115A, L:3269, l:3441, H:3397, B:128, PT:028C, BT:030C, PV: 93825, M:Bike On
03012 06/14/2024 19:46:17 SOC:34832,59355,34997,91080,62,5,42,208
03013 06/14/2024 19:46:17 Discharge cutback 46%
03014 06/14/2024 19:46:17 315A
03015 06/14/2024 19:47:17 Discharge level 036 AH, SOC: 32%, I:110A, L:3268, l:3433, H:3394, B:126, PT:029C, BT:030C, PV: 93805, M:Bike On
03016 06/14/2024 19:47:17 SOC:36654,53199,36821,91080,60,4,32,202
03017 06/14/2024 19:47:17 Discharge cutback 49%
03018 06/14/2024 19:47:17 331A
03019 06/14/2024 19:48:17 Discharge level 038 AH, SOC: 23%, I:117A, L:3285, l:3450, H:3411, B:126, PT:030C, BT:030C, PV: 94247, M:Bike On
03020 06/14/2024 19:48:17 SOC:38411,49485,38580,91080,58,6,23,200
03021 06/14/2024 19:48:17 Discharge cutback 48%
03022 06/14/2024 19:48:17 329A
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I was hoping you'd just post a link to the entire log because I'm only able to see tiny bits of it now. I'm more interested in the BMS logs than MBB ones.
Regardless, what I will say is that over the course of 5 minutes your pack balance plummeted from 19mV to 128mV. The cell in question dropped like a stone from 3.765vdc, which is like 55%ish, down to 3.269vdc which is like -10%. Shows all the signs of an old, worn out pack. A pack is only as good as its weakest cell and you've got at least one fairly weak cell in there.
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Here is the entire log: https://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser/logs/538SD5Z29ECB03576_BMS0_2024-06-18.txt
Indeed, weak cell could be doing it. So the thing I don't understand, and it goes back to my original question - does the BMS balance it while the bike is switched off ? How is it draining it to zero and then recovering on its own over time ?
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You've definitely got one or more weak cells in there.
00869 05/19/2024 18:20:33 Discharge level 024 AH, SOC: 56%, I:136A, L:3206, l:3411, H:3397, B:191, PT:026C, BT:027C, PV: 93315, M:Bike On
That's 191mV out of balance. To answer your question, balancing is something the BMS does when the bike is in charge mode, plugged in, and is somewhere above 110 volts if I'm not mistaken. So like 80% and above. At least that's what I was told.
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Yeah, balancing during charging is what I'd expect too, but somehow the SoC keeps climbing while in storage.
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That's due to voltage recovery. Like we've established, you've got one or more weak cells that is *plummeting* before the others. Often times when the pack is turned off, these cells will recover a lot of that voltage so the pack adjusts accordingly.
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I've never seen cells doing voltage recovery in this fashion (I have several DIY packs in projects). Without load voltage will recover some, but it's not going to grow the longer the load is removed.
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02572 06/11/2024 13:43:26 Discharge level 061 AH, SOC: 5%, I: 0A, L:3418, l:3456, H:3500, B:082, PT:039C, BT:038C, PV: 97245, M:Idle
PV = Pack Voltage = 97.245. Bike is keyed off around 1:43pm that day.
02590 06/11/2024 15:29:45 Discharge level 069 AH, SOC: 24%, I: 0A, L:3534, l:3534, H:3546, B:012, PT:034C, BT:030C, PV: 99184, M:Bike On
Bike turned off for a bit. At 3:29pm the bike is turned back on and PV = 99.184vdc. Lowest cell went from 3.418vdc to 3.534vdc. Highest cell went from 3.500vdc to 3.546vdc. Sitting idle for an hour the pack voltage went up 1.939 volts and the SoC went from 5% to 24%. I'm just trying to make sense of the bike's data shown here.
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Yeah, I appreciate you trying to help out. The data is a bit weird with this one.