ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: MrMogensen on May 17, 2024, 07:21:01 PM
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What's the major (and minor) drawbacks of the Ribelle?
Is it mainly rapid charging that sometimes fail?
The keyfob bug (if opted)?
Battery issues (before/after warranty expires)?
Software/Screen hickups? Many threads about issues between software updates?
Something else?
I would only be interested in the newer motor and pack
About 2 years ago I tried a Ribelle RS and a Zero SR/F. Zero was fun but just felt like bad quality - even compared to my near 20yo Yamaha.
Won't ask about Superchargers as all of them has CCS in Europe. More likely they work with no adapter in between.
I browsed through the Energia section about 2 years ago and haven't looked much since. Been busy with work + renovating various stuff at the house we moved to.
Last season I rode nearly 0km on my Yamaha. Have used it alot for commuting before we (last year) moved close to my work. I had it for so long now - simply don't feel the urge to go for sunday rides on it. Wife complains her hair smells like gasoline but sometimes she might jump on the back if it's EV.
We had a Tesla Model 3 for about 4 years now - that has also kind of pushed me further towards an EV bike.
Funny sidenote: I talked with the new site leader (highest ranking manager at work) about bikes. I saw he was riding a newer FZ1. He didn't know anything about Energica and I showed him a picture of a Ribelle. He looked at me and said: "I am ordering you to buy that bike!" ;)
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From my test ride - weight & height, price, chain (noise and grime), high likelihood of losing license ;D count against it. Not being an owner though I couldn't comment on anything else.
Cas :)
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I have a 2023 Rebelle RS.
It is a great bike that will not fit every need, just like any other bike.
What is your specific intended use for the bike?
That is really the main consideration. If the bike can fill that mission role, you will love it, if not you will be disappointed.
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From my test ride - weight & height, price, chain (noise and grime), high likelihood of losing license ;D count against it. Not being an owner though I couldn't comment on anything else.
Cas :)
Which one did you try? I tried out the Ribelle and going from an SR/F with a chargetank, it felt less top heavy. I found it quite easy to maneuver in slow speeds (no reverse needed) and not any worse than my SR/F.
I have sat on Morgan's older SS9 and that was a heavy bike for me! Ribelle not so much
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Ribelles are great, what's gonna be a problem for you depends what your use case is. If you just wanna do like 100 or 150 miles on a sunny Saturday afternoon and *maybe* charge once then it's hard to fault. If you wanna tour with it then Energica's (all of them really) achilles heel is thermal management and you'll need to dial back the charge rate a little and make sure to leave enough time between charges for the battery to cool off a bit.
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Ribelle RS+. Weight is approx the same as the SS9. Felt *much* heavier than my SR/F+Charge tank - mostly because the weight is much higher up. Although I did find that made it handle a little better than the Zero... the SR/F feels very stable with its low COG but this of course has the side effect of needing to lean it far further to get it to turn at the same rate.
Cas :)
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Ribelle and EGO are pretty much the same power train,ego is tweaked a bit higher. I have a racing ego, tweaked even higher, MUCH higher, I have done back to back to back to back sessions on the track, 20 minutes or so each, come in, charge up at 35 amps (the most a 50 amp feed will let me do) right back out, and never hit yellow with it. hitting speeds 135 occasionally 140 on the track. Maybe if it was 98 degrees out it'd see it, as I DO see yellow sometimes on my Ribelle when Ive been romping it hard on the highway, but were talking being stupid, triple digits for 5 or 6 minutes straight.
The charging is nice because you can use simple house current from 115 ac, 240 ac, or the fast charge CCS1 to charge it so you have plenty of ways To charge it, you really won't be stranded anywhere, just may take a bit to charge on 115volts.
What do you want it for. It's a fun bike but, what is your use intent for it.
It IS a bit heavy overall, and top heavy so lower speeds, like under 6 mph you CAN get into trouble very fast if you say, take a fairly sharp turn or tap the front brake. once you are going faster than this, she handles very well.
If I am doing 40 - 50 mph or so, some 35 mph rural, some 55 - 60 mph light highway mix, I can get about 200 miles per charge. If I am doing 75 to 80 on the highway, I can get around 100 miles per charge, (trust me, you want to take a bit of a rest after 100 miles) if Im doing faster, it runs down quicker. WOT will eat a battery in about 30 miles.
The upright seating position is a lot nicer than the aggressiveness of the EGO for casual riding.
Aaron
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A Ribelle, the early oil cooled variant, Rinehart drive, non-RS fitted w/ Ohlins / OZ wheels, dated firmware w/o nuisance alerts and Givi top box is still the ultimate sport-utility eBike, IMO.
Did Energica ever race the water cooled variant before they got out of MotoE?
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I believe Stefano is racing the water cooled one now.
The keyfob one, I am thinking the fob itself is causing a lot of the grief. Ive been watching it closely and find that putting a piece of tin foil, paper towel etc in on top of the battery to press it down a tiny bit harder to make sure it KEEPS contact in there, helps reduce the alarms probably about 90 percent. The battery gets loose IMO and loses contact, meaning the fob no longer talks to the bike so the not in range error.
Aaron
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I just didn't spec keyless because I'm an IT professional and it honestly just doesn't feel like a worthwhile option.
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Thank you all for the detailed answers and recommendations:
I tested the Ribelle RS back in 2022 when the Mavel motor was a new thing. I have tried to just sit on a EVA and EGO. There was something about the EVA I disliked - possibly the seat itself. The EGO racing position (and bad manoeuvrability at low speeds) would be hard to get used to when I have had the FZ6 (and liked it) for so many years. Ribelle fels like it has a slightly more aggresive seating positions that the FZ6 and the way the seat is carved out is also quite similar.
Intended use:
Since we moved quite close to my workplace I wouldn't be commuting on the EV bike (I got about 3 minutes on a bicycle haha).
Intented use would be the sunday drives that I rarely did on the FZ6 (since I commuted alot on it). I would also, maybe once a year, attend a track courses or track day(s). I attended a track course (theory + obstacle course + racetrack) several times with my FZ6 and it was great.
Most of chargning would be at home. I already have a setup with 3x16A Type2 (part of CCS2) for the car. Cable is 5 meters and would easily reach where bike is parked. I know that Energica only supports 1-phase AC but it's of no concern with my intended use.
I guess most popular racetracks have fastchargers these days. Since trackdays and longer trips would only be few times a year I am less concerced about the thermal management. By longer trips I mean when I can't get home again on same charge. I know the 400 km range is for city riding and I shouldn't expect more than 250 ish for mixed (especially if battery should mostly only be charged to 80% like with most EVs).
Another small part of intented use would be occasional rides with my wife. She likes short sunday rides as passenger but she seriously hates her hair smelling like gasoline until she washed it 3 times (exhaust under the backseat doesn't help). Passenger seat on the Ribelle does not look comfortable at all but then again it's not often and would never be long trips.
"princec" mentioned the noisy chain. I agree it did sound a but much - but then again the Zero SR-F I tried was what I would call deadly silent... 5 seconds into that testride and I nearly rammed a guy who walked right in front of me on the dealers parkinglot.
I agree on the weight comments that the SR-F felt like a but more work on the twisties while the Ribelle felt more natural (again maybe weight distribution is, even though it is heavier, similar to my current FZ6.
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"intended use would be sunday drives"
In that case make sure you only need 90 miles max to allow for a buffer and prevent the anxiety of running out of juice. If that is the mission, the Energica is second to none.
Track use may be limited. many tracks forbid electric. Check on that first if it really matters. My local tracks do not allow Electric vehicles.
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Noted about the sunday drives buffer thing.
Why the ban of EV's on a track?
The track where I had some courses (Denmarks biggest track) put up a fastcharger with 2 outlets. This was maybe 4 years ago.
I will check out (or email) whatever tracks seem reasonably close to me (Denmark and southern Sweden).
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A lot of tracks don't have the necessary equipment or training/knowledge to deal with a potential battery fire. In some cases, like in The Netherlands, there have been instances of university student teams taking their homebrew bikes to the track and something went wrong resulting in a fire that caused damage to the track and paddock. As a result, it's my understanding that there was a time they banned electrics at all Dutch racetracks. I think it was an entire year. Marchel, who is one of the larger Dutch dealers for Energica and a huge track day enthusiast, was SUPER pissed off.
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Yeah for Sunday rides I'd say 100 to 20 percent is about 150ish km for me as a rule of thumb but I've been on plenty of rides where I've beaten that which is nice.
Incidentally, I've had a couple of fairly slight friends take short rides on the back, the accommodations are ... basic. The rear end is moulded into a shape you can get your hands into and grip onto beneath the seat but it lacks proper handles, the seat is also, you know, a thin pad of hard foam with leathery stuff stretched over it. Your wife will need to hold on tight as the ride can be a bit hard and you'll wanna go easy on the throttle both for her own comfort and because there's nothing stock or aftermarket to stop here falling off the back should you decide to rip it with those 215Nm.
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A lot of tracks don't have the necessary equipment or training/knowledge to deal with a potential battery fire. In some cases, like in The Netherlands, there have been instances of university student teams taking their homebrew bikes to the track and something went wrong resulting in a fire that caused damage to the track and paddock. As a result, it's my understanding that there was a time they banned electrics at all Dutch racetracks. I think it was an entire year. Marchel, who is one of the larger Dutch dealers for Energica and a huge track day enthusiast, was SUPER pissed off.
The Energica club Netherlands purchased the necessary safety equipment, and now with briefing track days are perfectly fine, if planned with the club.
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Hey man. If you want to fight with Marchel you be my guest.
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Hey man. If you want to fight with Marchel you be my guest.
I remember Marchel was not happy, but Marchel and the Energica club lobbied for track access; they advised in protocols and invested in the gear (extinguishers, DC chargers, nitril gloves, insulated hook etcetera) and now the club organizes track days. If an owner wants to drive on the track, it has to be with te necessary gear and race control notified, you cannot just go there and join a track day on an electric bike by yourself. Assen works like this. I don't know about Zandvoort, I have driven there with the EsseEsse9 in 2021 though.
https://energicaclub.nl/events/ (https://energicaclub.nl/events/)
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Fortunately I have not seen any of these sort of issues, in fact they look forward to me showing up. They get a real blast out of seeing the bike fly up behind someone on the track and hear it whizzing by like a space ship I've been called before.
Just for peace of mind, this is something I might want to self invest in, at least the blanket, and tell them if I ever wreck this thing really bad, just throw it out in the middle of the field, throw this blanket over it and I'll arrange to get it picked up.
I bring my own fast charger to the track, but have it toned WAYYYY down to only do 50 amps out of the Nema 14=50 that is available there. The wiring there is outside and old as shit, not in the best shape. I wonder if they'd let me set up a station to fast charge and hard wire it etc. Supposedly this summer they are getting some of their power redone, maybe I can work with someone at the same time to get me a 100 amp station set up :D
Aaron
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Regarding noisy chain:
Upwards from approx. 30 km/h the gear is the loudest part on my Ribelle. If you ask me, Energica put this spur-toothed gear on the bikes to expressly generate a sound, which I like very much (had a Zero SR/F before).
BTW, nice side effect: If you can hear the chain at 20 km/h it has to be replaced.
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Yeah, once the chain starts to clatter on rolloff it's a convenient indicator that you need to tighten it up. It's a consistent thing I bring up when people talk about losing gears and exhaust which is your limited attention (however much of it you have) is freed up to concentrate on all the other stuff you were missing.
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Regarding noisy chain:
Upwards from approx. 30 km/h the gear is the loudest part on my Ribelle. If you ask me, Energica put this spur-toothed gear on the bikes to expressly generate a sound, which I like very much (had a Zero SR/F before).
BTW, nice side effect: If you can hear the chain at 20 km/h it has to be replaced.
Yes sorry of course its the "straight cut or something" gear and not the chain itself.
At higher speeds it's just mainly windnoise just like many other bikes.
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@Stonewolf, or just idling, maintenance throttle or gliding down it's making noise, yah it's time to tighten.
BUT on the other hand, if you are at idle and you are walking the bike or going real slow and can feel the bump bump of the motor poles, then it's too tight, you over tightened it, back it off a flat or 2.
Aaron
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Unfortunately it seems you people aren't good at talking me out of it...
What about battery/motor issues with the bigger pack + mavel setup after 2021?
As far as I understand the newer Energicas mainly has an issue with continuous fastcharging. Let's leave the keycard out of it - I have no interest in that.
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I race mine, while I am nowhere near what would be considered an expert, I still pound the shit out of it, battery wise.
I'll slam the throttle trying to go as fast as I can go, for the 20 seconds or so I have to do so in the space that i am doing 140 MPH in, then hump the brakes and especially regen. I use FULL regen and use it constantly to help me in turns, stopping, etc, it's constantly being moved around.
Now whether that is helping or hurting my overall progress, remains to be seen but for the sake of this convo, im constantly moving current, often times LARGE amounts of it, in and out of the battery.
When I get into the paddock, Ill throw it on the fast charger to bring it up to 94 percent. ( I don't do 100 percent, because as I said, I use regen and there needs to be a place to put it to use it ! ) Once it's charged, I'll get it and get me ready for my next 20 minute session of hammering the bike on the track.
Normal sessions, 20 minutes on, 40 off.
Better sessions, 30 minutes on, 30 off. (low turnout days, they'll combine expert / Intermediate into one, novice in other)
Premium sessions, open track, you do whatever you want (this generally is when I am invited to a private group to race / play) or if there is a rainout and most the people say, im takling my toys and I'm going home, but a few hard core dummies, such as me go, screw it, I paid for this, im racing in the rain!
anyways, the bike is getting a fair amount of power transfer.
Now, my bike is pitch ass BLACK, BLACK bike, sitting in the hot ass Florida sun, charging, discharging.... Trust me, that black bike can get hot as shit under the sun, and the battery is right under those fairings, in that hot box.
Only once have I pushed it hard enough to run it into the Yellow, and THAT was when I let a professional racer use the bike who is capable of hitting 150 MPH or more on the back stretches, and much faster speeds overall than I currently am.
I hate standing blistering in the sun, especially wearing 25 pounds of Leather / Armor / Helmet/ ... you get the idea, so I set up a tarp / canopy.
Under the canopy the bike so far has never hit yellow let alone hard yellow.
Bike 2:
I ride my Ribelle on the highway, I like to ride spirited. Im not one of those assholes who wants to weave and zip in and out back and forth thru traffic, if there's traffic Ill stay my lane... that other shit is just too dangerous and sooner or later those clowns get pulled in front of and end up as road pizza. NOW..... If I get an open spot, or bit of pavement that has no obstructions, I have been accused of opening the throttle up a bit. Sunday mornings, fairly early, for some reason, my throttle likes to get stuck when I open it, and sometimes it takes me several miles to figure out how to get it back down again... I need to work on that....
Fairly hard but consistent riding for MILES ..... charge.... go to next destination.
WHen it's July / August in Florida and blistering Fkn hot, mid 90s out. Ive turned it yellow fairly often after say 20 minutes of harder running.
To date I really can not say where I have seen it curtail my fun power level. Once or twice I have seen it back off my fast charge to say 40 amps or so, if it's real bad, like I just did a WOT for 12 miles straight on a hot ass day, ive seen it limit me to 25 amps.. but I really need to be abusive to get it to do that,
Unless you are riding your bike hot and hard, I honestly do not thing a normal user is going to have any issues with the battery charging and stuff like that.
If you live in North Florida or nearby, I'll take you for a track day and we can show you first hand if you want.
Aaron
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Maybe I’m just too soft, but the ribelle was just too wristy and cramped feeling for me. That is likely because I’m only allowed one bike, so it has to be ergonomically correct for every day use. The head down position also doesn’t make for the best traffic awareness.
You also have really want electric, the aprillia turbo/ducati monster with similar performance are less than half the price.
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also check on the cost of registration and insurance, and i hope you have a dealer close mt 2022 esse esse 9 required more trips back to the energica service
center than all other new vehicles that i have owned combined.
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Unfortunately it seems you people aren't good at talking me out of it...
I won't talk you out of it either ;D
Owning a Ribelle for 22 months now with 43,000 km on the clock you can tell that I like it a lot.
Personally, I don't find the seating position so cramped, but that is of course depending on your body dimensions and your personal preferences. I never sat on the EsseEsse, there was no need bc I felt immediately good on the Ribelle.
About technical issues with the bike I can only say that I had only one major one which was solved by the excellent service person of the dealer within two days (he drove 160 km one way to dignose & then reinstall the FW). Before he did that, he contacted Energica and discussed with them what to do. So, I have no reason to distrust neither my dealer nor Energica.
[BTW totally different to Zero who knowingly fed my dealer and me false information about supply of a new battery bc the one in my SR/F was f**d up. In the end I gave the bike back under lemon law. So, yeah, if you want to buy a Zero I would try to talk you out of it.]
I am not a battery expert, but just looking at the numbers (21.5 kWh nameplate, real capacity approx. 18 kWh) I can tell there is a good safety margin included. In addition the software prohibits stressing the battery at the SOC high and low level by restricting charging input or power output. All that is pointing to a long life of the battery despite driving it hard.
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I believe there's now an extended warranty to 5 years for Energicas as well which puts it on a par with Zero. I admit that was actually a critical factor in thinking "no" when I had the opportunity a couple of years ago before they had the 5 year warranty.
btw my experience with Zero and batteries has been good - exhibited magic charging after 2 years, took it to dealer, pulled the logs, agreed, battery replaced within 3 months no questions asked. And the new battery is excellent - I easily get 125 miles out of it.
Cas :)
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I believe there's now an extended warranty to 5 years for Energicas as well which puts it on a par with Zero. I admit that was actually a critical factor in thinking "no" when I had the opportunity a couple of years ago before they had the 5 year warranty.
btw my experience with Zero and batteries has been good - exhibited magic charging after 2 years, took it to dealer, pulled the logs, agreed, battery replaced within 3 months no questions asked. And the new battery is excellent - I easily get 125 miles out of it.
Cas :)
You are right, Energica offers a two year warranty extension but just until May 31st.
Zero took 3 MONTHS to supply a battery? Sorry, but in my view that is totally inacceptable.
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That was the total time from taking the bike in to getting it returned, so it included scheduling in the swap (which is quite a big job). The actual battery was almost immediately sourced - however it took several more weeks to get ahold of some of the wiring harness gubbins that are associated with the new pack. See how long it takes to get a pack replaced on any other EV ... I think they did reasonably well myself!
I wasn't too bothered at the time as I had another bike to use.
Cas :)
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Seat position: My testride of the Ribelle RS felt fine. Slightly more sporty position than FZ6 but I liked it.
Dealer network: There is supposed to be a new Danish dealer. I wrote to Energica to ask about it since nearest dealer on their website is in Sweden (where I tried the Energica). Sweden dealer is about 60-70 km away + bridge tax so it’s not great. Google doesn’t really get me any official Danish dealer. Maybe Energica answers me some day - just wrote to their standard mail found in website.
My FZ6 got sold today!
Weird to see it go… my first bike and had it for 16 years. First date with my wife was a backseat trip on this very bike about 8 years ago so a bit weird for her too.
I think I will not buy an Energica straight away. We are very busy with renovating parts of the house + also I wanna really feel the need to ride before before paying $$ for something that I don’t really need at all - but want ;)
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I wish my dealer was that close, ours is about 250 km.
You can change tires and play with the shocks a bit to get the bike a bit lower to the ground / feel different sitting on it, but while it is a bit forward, it is very easy to just let off it, sit back and relax when you are at lights etc and the bike will stay very well balanced. It's not like the EGO where you are really pushed into a race stance.
I think you'll miss your bike soon enough that you'll want to get your EGO, or at least get it ordered now so that if it's not immediately available, in a few months it'll be there for you.
One thing that you probably did NOT notice on your test ride, which you will appreciate.. well maybe not so much where you live at but... it's not putting off heat when you DO find yourself stuck in traffic. It's not putting off nasty fumes to breathe in either or noise. You will learn to appreciate nature more, being able to take a nice quiet ride and hear the sounds around you much better than you would with an ICE rumbling at you.
Aaron
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Aaron >>
I am pretty sure I am going for a slightly used 2nd hand Ribelle.
Just like with our car (Tesla Model 3) I am simply still too cheap to buy brand new.
Not buying an EV bike to save the planet. But especially due to having owned a Model 3 LR for 4 years that has kind of ruined most of the joy of ICE (car and bike) - it’s simply too good.
I understand what you mean with the “off while idle”. It’s simply more effective…
About noise I actually think an Energica might generate the same noise as my now former FZ6 at low speeds. The Energica gear seemed surprisingly loud on my test ride (also recently saw/heard one slowly drive past our house while I was working on the front yard). As the FZ6 had stock exhaust it had a low monotone (almost electric ish) sound over it at constant low speed/rev.
Me being surprised of the kind of whiny Energica gear sound was likely because I tried a Zero SR/F a few weeks before I had a go on the Ribelle.
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The Ribelle can be quieted down a tad by turning down the Regen a bit. When it's regenning, being used as a generator, yes it can make some noise, but if it's just idling by, no electric / field / pole noise being generated, it's just gliding and you'll hear a soft rattling of the chain. the noise is a derivative of the frequency of the electric you are making, yes technically it is DC, but it's actually a chopped 3 phase sinusoidal waveform the motor is actually making, that gets smoothed by the inverter and put back into the battery, so it has a frequency to it, which of course changes, as the speed of the motor changes, and the rotor passes the windings at a slower rate. anyways....
In glide, they are very quiet.
Aaron
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The motor does not generate a sound. The noise of the Energicas comes from the gears between motor and pinion and was made on purpose by Energica, see e.g. here
https://www.epaddock.it/en/motoe-2021-interview-with-giampiero-testoni-technical-director-of-energica/
Is the bikes' sound electrical or mechanical?
“It's mechanical. The sound of MotoE was born from a precise marketing requirement of the commercial models: the management didn't want the bikes to be silent. This choice was transferred in the track model. The sound is generated by the gears installed between the electric motor and the pinion. Although they are rarely used because they are noisy and more expensive to be manufactured, we chose spur gears because of the characteristic sound above 20km/h. This choice also has advantages from a technical point of view because spur gears don't generate axial thrust as happens with helical gears".
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Loading the gears up with either power or regen they mesh harder and make noise. Letting them free wheel with no load on them, they should be a lot quieter, ie coasting to a stop .vs. a powered stop via regen. They will make some noise but nowhere as near as much as when under a load.
Aaron
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One thing that you probably did NOT notice on your test ride, which you will appreciate.. well maybe not so much where you live at but... it's not putting off heat when you DO find yourself stuck in traffic.
Aaron
That's such a true statement and very reason my itch was scratched back in 2009 when this was first realized...eBikes don't emit heat like IceBiikes...the Ribelle holds worthy to this.
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Ive ridden in numerous rides with groups of individuals. Mostly Harleys, but anyways. when we get into heavier traffic, or even a long light, there is always at least one of them, pulling off to the side because their bike is overheating, turning the thing off, they are sweating like pigs, (which I find very amusing because I always ride fully geared up and am not sweating much at all TBH), the hogs on the back of their hogs are bitching because they are so hot from the air being blown up by the bike, etc etc :D :D
I have a little USB powered fan, I suction cup it to the windshield and plug it in the USB port and leave it running. I just smile and say, you want to borrow this? I don't need it, my bike runs cool. Then there are the ones where the bike is bouncing and jumping and jittering all over the place like a dildo on overdrive, I just don't get that. WHAT is appealing about that? I can't think of anyone who enjoys being bounced all over the place. Now throw radiator heat and exhaust fumes on top of that...along with loud obnoxious pipes and scratchy music being run thru shitty speakers because they got torn up by being bounced around so much. E bikes practically can sell themselves.
Aaron
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Haha, actually one of the things do and don't miss is my VFR trying to roast me alive, it was nice in winter but in summer trying to thread through completely jammed traffic on the way home from a tour ...
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Since some of the bigger battery + EMCE/Mavel Ribelles from 2021 or 2022 are soon out of warranty (if they didn’t opt for extended warranty)…
If someone like me who might buy 2nd hand ends up unlucky…
*How much does a new battery cost in case a single damaged cell can’t be repaired?
*How much does a new EMCE cost?
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EMCE, as in the motor? I can't see that going bad really unless you really molested it. The battery, it's only 3 years old tops?? it should have at least another 3 left in it, if treated poorly. Now granted you may get the oddball that may die early but the chances of a one cell death like you describe should be pretty remote id think.. I would like to believe that if there was a faulty cell in the thing, it'd have manifested itself by now.
The price for a new battery? Hate to say but it's probably about half the cost of the bike, which thankfully with proper care, the battery should last 8 years or so.
Just because it's guaranteed to have 80 percent of it's life left, does not mean it WILL be that degraded by the time it reaches 3 or 4 years of age, that's more of a worse case scenario thing I believe. Unless you are running it pretty much every single day and putting 20k a year on it I don't see it really being in that bad of shape.
I think someone in New York had a Ribelle for sale here, one of the newer ones if I am not mistaken at a decent price. How much would it be to ship the thing to you? If the price is THAT good, it may be worth the 1500 bucks for the shipping if it's that high.
Aaron
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Maybe I am just a bit concerned that an Energica battery isn’t as good quality as for example the ones Tesla seem to use.
Tesla has an 8 year / 190.000km warranty on the battery. It’s kind of a little red flag that Energica doesn’t trust themselves more than offering a 3 year standard warranty.
I am not at all concerned about the battery or motors in my Model 3. One reason is also that there are so many other Teslas out there and battery/motor fails aren’t common. The only Energica riders I “know” are you guys/gals ;D
There is one Danish Energica for sale (he is also in this forum but can’t remember his handle). It had a battery fail after he imported it from Germany but luckily it was still covered by warranty - he got a new installed. It’s from 2021 so one of the first with EMCE/21,5kWh.
Importing an Energica to Europe? I would likely have to pay a large import tax (due to importing from outside EU). They build them in Italy and are likely already a bit cheaper in EU compared to US. There are some 2nd hand for sale in EU (some of them has been for sale for a while).
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An out of warranty battery failure would be utterly uneconomical to replace, which is one of the reason EVs in general take a massive depreciation hit. For example, it appears that the battery is more than half the NEW bike cost, not including labour. To use the Model 3, a $36k new car will need a $13k battery. Due to most pack construction methods, a single failed cell cannot simply be replaced.
Something to be aware of, batteries degrade largely through three modes. Calendar aging, cycle aging and duty aging. This makes it bloody hard to compare any battery like for like based on age/km beyond actually testing the internal resistance on each cell (which is what I believe battery health reports). A 100,000km bike that had only ever AC charged, lived in a garage and pootled around town will be in better condition than one that had DC fast charged at 25kw, been ridden at 200km/h and freeze/melt in the sun. Batteries will degrade regardless of use year on year (calendar aging). Cycle aging is the number of times a battery is discharged/charged, which results in physical changes to the structure of the electrodes and chemical decomposition of the electrolyte. Duty aging is the same process as cycle aging, but more impacted by the charge/discharge rates, physical damage (vibration) and temperateure exposure, with the higher C rates, temperate and vibration exposure accelerating damage to the cells. There is absolutely nothing special about the longevity Telsa battery packs, aside from compared to earlier EVs they used liquid cooling vs air cooling, which maintained pack temperature better. While a telsa NCM battery outperforms a nissan leaf NCM pack which used air cooling, they are likewise vastly faster degrading than a Chevrolet Volt, which has set greater limits on C rates and reserve capacity (After three years Leaf - 94.7%, Tesla S 95.9%, Volt - 98.2%). The lesson here is our air-cooled packs are likely going to be a little worse than a leaf pack...... Having said that, provided a pack hasn't been mistreated, I've anecdotally heard good things about energica honouring replacements. The 3 or 5 year warranty on the energica is actually pretty outstanding in the motorcycle world, most motorcycle manufacturers only offer 1-2 years.
The Telsa warranty sounds good, but isn't actually outstanding. Yeah, its 8 years, but its only 70% health. Lexus is 10 years/80%. Kia/Hyundai do 10 year/70%. Almost all other warranties are 8 years/70%
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There is one Danish Energica for sale (he is also in this forum but can’t remember his handle). It had a battery fail after he imported it from Germany but luckily it was still covered by warranty - he got a new installed. It’s from 2021 so one of the first with EMCE/21,5kWh.
There are several Energicas for sale here in Germany, a '20 EGO is standing in the showroom of my dealer in Meppen. A black beauty!
With Aaron as role model, I would like to buy it myself as a racetool but I am facing constraints in budget, garage space and spouse's tolerance ;D ;D ;D
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The Telsa warranty sounds good, but isn't actually outstanding. Yeah, its 8 years, but its only 70% health. Lexus is 10 years/80%. Kia/Hyundai do 10 year/70%. Almost all other warranties are 8 years/70%
I know that other manufacturers warranties seem better, but I took Tesla as an example because there are such an extreme amount of cars (data) out there. Some of them has quite high "out of warranty mileage".
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jojo if that bike has been sitting there a while, make him an offer, space is money, he may be looking to get rid of it for a decent deal just to see it gone. Make a sponsor deal with him, tell him you'll race it and have his name prominently on it for 1000 off or something :D It can't hurt to try, you just never know.
Aaron