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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: victor6.7y on May 16, 2024, 09:13:05 PM

Title: Zero S 2019 - Sevcon CAN Link Down
Post by: victor6.7y on May 16, 2024, 09:13:05 PM

Any one encounterd Sevcon CAN Link Down before?

The first time it happend; the bike was charging overnight; So i did not notice it.
Than it happend when I was driving. I suddenly lost power.

Because the Logs showed the SEVCON CAN link was lost; my first tought was that it could be a broken wire.
I checked the wiring; and I could not find any damage. I also tried to see if the CAN Link would go down; if I was fumbling with the CAN wirering. Sadly this is also not the case...

I'm a bit afraid that my SEVCON is dying.... Did anyone have a SEVCON dying in 5 years or after 21.000 km?







the first time it happend to my bike was apperently when it was charging. But only now I am noticing it when i'm driving.
It seems like


03103     01/26/2024 00:28:18   Charging                   PackTemp: h 23C, l 18C, AmbTemp:  6C, PackSOC: 91%, Vpack:112.861V, BattAmps:  -8, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 03104     01/26/2024 00:38:18   Charging                   PackTemp: h 24C, l 18C, AmbTemp:  6C, PackSOC: 92%, Vpack:113.396V, BattAmps:  -8, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 03105     01/26/2024 00:42:27   Sevcon CAN Link Down   
 03106     01/26/2024 00:42:29   Sevcon CAN was lost.  Restarting.   
 03107     01/26/2024 00:42:29   Module 00                  vmod: 113.651V, batt curr: 65527A
 03108     01/26/2024 00:42:29   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 03109     01/26/2024 00:42:29   Sevcon Turned Off   
 03110     01/26/2024 00:42:29   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF   
 03111     01/26/2024 00:42:29   DEBUG: Sevcon Has Turned Off Contactor Drive   
 03112     01/26/2024 00:42:29   Module 00                  vmod: 113.798V, batt curr: 65527A
 03113     01/26/2024 00:42:29   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 03114     01/26/2024 00:42:29   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Open   
 03115     01/26/2024 00:42:29   INFO:  Disabling Calex 720W Charger 0   
 03116     01/26/2024 00:42:29   INFO:  Disabling Calex 1200W Charger 1   
 03117     01/26/2024 00:42:32   Sevcon Turned On   
 03118     01/26/2024 00:42:42   Precharge Timed Out. CapV mc1: 0V CapV mc2: 0V   
 03119     01/26/2024 00:42:42   Module 00                  vmod: 113.355V, batt curr: 0A
 03120     01/26/2024 00:42:42   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 03121     01/26/2024 00:42:42   Sevcon Turned Off   
 03122     01/26/2024 00:42:45   Sevcon Turned On   
 03123     01/26/2024 00:42:46   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 03124     01/26/2024 00:42:47   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 03125     01/26/2024 00:42:47   Module 00                  vmod: 113.346 maxsys: 113.346 minsys: 113.346 diff: 0.000 vcap: 101.75 prechg: 89%
 03126     01/26/2024 00:42:47   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed   
 03127     01/26/2024 00:42:47   INFO:  Enabling Calex 720W Charger 0   
 03128     01/26/2024 00:42:47   INFO:  Enabling Calex 1200W Charger 1   
 03129     01/26/2024 00:48:18   Charging                   PackTemp: h 24C, l 18C, AmbTemp:  6C, PackSOC: 94%, Vpack:113.888V, BattAmps:  -9, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 03130     01/26/2024 00:58:18   Charging                   PackTemp: h 24C, l 19C, AmbTemp:  6C, PackSOC: 96%, Vpack:114.431V, BattAmps:  -9, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No




looking back it is really scary that the CAN link goes down while driving

 05589     04/20/2024 15:32:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 13C, l 12C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.621V, MotAmps:  86, BattAmps:  22, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  13C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:1013, Odo:21463km
 05590     04/20/2024 15:33:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 13C, l 12C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:116.153V, MotAmps: -35, BattAmps:  -8, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  30C, CtrlTemp:  14C, AmbTemp:   4C, MotRPM:1168, Odo:21463km
 05591     04/20/2024 15:33:23   Sevcon CAN Link Down   
 05592     04/20/2024 15:33:23   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 05593     04/20/2024 15:34:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 13C, l 12C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.584V, MotAmps: -18, BattAmps:  -1, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  33C, CtrlTemp:  15C, AmbTemp:   4C, MotRPM: 672, Odo:21464km
 05594     04/20/2024 15:35:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 13C, l 12C, PackSOC: 99%, Vpack:114.819V, MotAmps:  46, BattAmps:  19, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  34C, CtrlTemp:  16C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:1558, Odo:21465km
 05595     04/20/2024 15:36:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 13C, l 12C, PackSOC: 99%, Vpack:114.545V, MotAmps:  63, BattAmps:  22, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  35C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:1225, Odo:21466km
 05596     04/20/2024 15:37:01   Sevcon CAN Link Down   
 05597     04/20/2024 15:37:01   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 05598     04/20/2024 15:37:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 13C, l 12C, PackSOC: 98%, Vpack:112.564V, MotAmps: 118, BattAmps:  73, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  37C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:2418, Odo:21467km
 05599     04/20/2024 15:38:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 14C, l 12C, PackSOC: 97%, Vpack:111.581V, MotAmps:  91, BattAmps:  75, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  39C, CtrlTemp:  19C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:3186, Odo:21468km
 05600     04/20/2024 15:39:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 14C, l 12C, PackSOC: 97%, Vpack:113.934V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   1, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  39C, CtrlTemp:  19C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:  63, Odo:21469km
 05601     04/20/2024 15:40:05   Sevcon CAN Link Down   
 05602     04/20/2024 15:40:05   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 05603     04/20/2024 15:40:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 14C, l 13C, PackSOC: 96%, Vpack:111.141V, MotAmps:  73, BattAmps:  73, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  43C, CtrlTemp:  21C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:3795, Odo:21470km
 05604     04/20/2024 15:41:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 15C, l 13C, PackSOC: 95%, Vpack:109.889V, MotAmps: 103, BattAmps: 102, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  43C, CtrlTemp:  20C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:3794, Odo:21472km
 05605     04/20/2024 15:42:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 15C, l 13C, PackSOC: 94%, Vpack:111.722V, MotAmps:  44, BattAmps:  31, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  44C, CtrlTemp:  19C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:2760, Odo:21473km






And in the worse case; the CAN link went down and I lost power while driving on the main road...

 05686     04/20/2024 16:51:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 44%, Vpack: 99.172V, MotAmps:  80, BattAmps:  72, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  51C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:3155, Odo:21547km
 05687     04/20/2024 16:52:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 43%, Vpack: 98.874V, MotAmps:  88, BattAmps:  84, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  52C, CtrlTemp:  18C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:3320, Odo:21549km
 05688     04/20/2024 16:53:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 42%, Vpack: 100.95V, MotAmps: -35, BattAmps: -15, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  51C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:1845, Odo:21550km
 05689     04/20/2024 16:54:10   Sevcon CAN Link Down   
 05690     04/20/2024 16:54:12   Sevcon CAN was lost.  Restarting.   
 05691     04/20/2024 16:54:12   Module 00                  vmod: 100.744V, batt curr: 1A
 05692     04/20/2024 16:54:12   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 05693     04/20/2024 16:54:12   Sevcon Turned Off   
 05694     04/20/2024 16:54:12   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF   
 05695     04/20/2024 16:54:12   DEBUG: Sevcon Has Turned Off Contactor Drive   
 05696     04/20/2024 16:54:13   Module 00                  vmod: 100.764V, batt curr: 0A
 05697     04/20/2024 16:54:13   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 05698     04/20/2024 16:54:13   Throttle Disabled:         Sevcon Starting Up,     
 05699     04/20/2024 16:54:13   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Open   
 05700     04/20/2024 16:54:15   Sevcon Turned On   
 05701     04/20/2024 16:54:17   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x3100, Error Reg: 0x04 Sevcon Error Code: 0x45c5, Data: 0x08 0x07 0x00 0x88 0x01 , Unknown
 05702     04/20/2024 16:54:17   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x44 Sevcon Error Code: 0x46c3, Data: 0x02 0x01 0x00 0x54 0x01 , Unknown
 05703     04/20/2024 16:54:17   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 05704     04/20/2024 16:54:17   INFO:  Bmvolts: 100062, Cmvolts: 138812, Amps: 0, RPM: 922   
 05705     04/20/2024 16:54:17   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x2000, Error Reg: 0x46 Sevcon Error Code: 0x54c1, Data: 0x00 0x00 0x02 0xa0 0x05 , Unknown
 05706     04/20/2024 16:54:17   INFO:  Bmvolts: 100000, Cmvolts: 138750, Amps: 0, RPM: 923   
 05707     04/20/2024 16:54:17   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x3100, Error Reg: 0x46 Sevcon Error Code: 0x45c8, Data: 0x08 0xac 0x78 0xa0 0x01 , Unknown
 05708     04/20/2024 16:54:17   INFO:  Bmvolts: 100000, Cmvolts: 138687, Amps: 0, RPM: 912   
 05709     04/20/2024 16:54:19   Contactor Welded   
 05710     04/20/2024 16:54:19   Sevcon Turned Off   
 05711     04/20/2024 16:54:22   Sevcon Turned On   
 05712     04/20/2024 16:54:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 42%, Vpack:100.882V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 00, MotTemp:-100C, CtrlTemp:5436C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:   0, Odo:21551km
 05713     04/20/2024 16:54:23   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x3100, Error Reg: 0x04 Sevcon Error Code: 0x45c5, Data: 0x08 0x07 0x00 0x54 0x01 , Unknown
 05714     04/20/2024 16:54:23   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x2000, Error Reg: 0x06 Sevcon Error Code: 0x54c1, Data: 0x00 0x00 0x02 0x01 0x05 , Unknown
 05715     04/20/2024 16:54:23   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x46 Sevcon Error Code: 0x46c3, Data: 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x01 , Unknown
 05716     04/20/2024 16:54:23   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 05717     04/20/2024 16:54:23   INFO:  Bmvolts: 100125, Cmvolts: 132125, Amps: 0, RPM: 0   
 05718     04/20/2024 16:54:23   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x3100, Error Reg: 0x46 Sevcon Error Code: 0x45c8, Data: 0x08 0x45 0x78 0xa0 0x01 , Unknown
 05719     04/20/2024 16:54:23   INFO:  Bmvolts: 100187, Cmvolts: 132000, Amps: 0, RPM: 0   
 05720     04/20/2024 16:54:25   Contactor Welded   
 05721     04/20/2024 16:54:25   Sevcon Turned Off   
 05722     04/20/2024 16:54:28   Sevcon Turned On   
 05723     04/20/2024 16:54:29   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x3100, Error Reg: 0x04 Sevcon Error Code: 0x45c5, Data: 0x07 0x07 0x00 0x10 0x01 , Unknown
 05724     04/20/2024 16:54:29   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 05725     04/20/2024 16:54:29   INFO:  Bmvolts: 100187, Cmvolts: 120125, Amps: 0, RPM: 417   
 05726     04/20/2024 16:54:29   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 05727     04/20/2024 16:54:29   Module 00                  vmod: 100.982 maxsys: 100.982 minsys: 100.982 diff: 0.000 vcap: 120.125 prechg: 118%
 05728     04/20/2024 16:54:29   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x   0, Error Reg: 0x00 Sevcon Error Code: 0x45c5, Data: 0x00 0x00 0xff 0xa0 0x01 , Unknown
 05729     04/20/2024 16:54:29   INFO:  Bmvolts: 100250, Cmvolts: 113687, Amps: 0, RPM: 438   
 05730     04/20/2024 16:54:31   ERROR: Cannot Connect Module 00! modv=100996mV, maxv=100996mV, minv=100996mV, raw0:100975mV, raw1:0mV, cur0:0A, cur1:0A, diff_allowed: 909mV   
 05731     04/20/2024 16:54:31   Module 00                  vmod: 100.972V, batt curr: 0A
 05732     04/20/2024 16:54:31   BMS0 retry count is now 1   
 05733     04/20/2024 16:54:31   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x3100, Error Reg: 0x05 Sevcon Error Code: 0x45c9, Data: 0x01 0x31 0x68 0xb0 0x01 , Unknown
 05734     04/20/2024 16:54:32   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x45 Sevcon Error Code: 0x5101, Data: 0x06 0x02 0x03 0xa0 0x04 , Unknown
 05735     04/20/2024 16:54:32   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x   0, Error Reg: 0x41 Sevcon Error Code: 0x45c9, Data: 0x01 0x51 0x30 0xb8 0x01 , Unknown
 05736     04/20/2024 16:54:33   ERROR: Cannot Connect Module 00! modv=101021mV, maxv=101021mV, minv=101021mV, raw0:100996mV, raw1:0mV, cur0:0A, cur1:0A, diff_allowed: 909mV   
 05737     04/20/2024 16:54:33   Module 00                  vmod: 101.001V, batt curr: 0A
 05738     04/20/2024 16:54:33   BMS0 retry count is now 2   
 05739     04/20/2024 16:54:33   Module 00                  vmod: 101.023 maxsys: 101.023 minsys: 101.023 diff: 0.000 vcap: 13.75 prechg: 13%
 05740     04/20/2024 16:54:34   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF   
 05741     04/20/2024 16:54:35   Precharge Lost. CapV: 5V 0V   
 05742     04/20/2024 16:54:35   Module 00                  vmod: 101.018V, batt curr: 0A
 05743     04/20/2024 16:54:35   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 05744     04/20/2024 16:54:35   Sevcon Turned Off   
 05745     04/20/2024 16:54:38   Sevcon Turned On   
 05746     04/20/2024 16:54:39   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 05747     04/20/2024 16:54:39   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 05748     04/20/2024 16:54:39   Module 00                  vmod: 101.083 maxsys: 101.083 minsys: 101.083 diff: 0.000 vcap: 89.75 prechg: 88%
 05749     04/20/2024 16:54:40   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed   
 05750     04/20/2024 16:54:47   Throttle Disabled:         Kickstand Sw,     
 05751     04/20/2024 16:54:47   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode   
 05752     04/20/2024 16:54:47   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 05753     04/20/2024 16:54:52   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode   
 05754     04/20/2024 16:54:52   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 05755     04/20/2024 16:55:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 43%, Vpack:101.358V, MotAmps: -35, BattAmps: -17, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  48C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:2120, Odo:21551km
 05756     04/20/2024 16:56:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 42%, Vpack: 99.872V, MotAmps:  71, BattAmps:  52, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  48C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:2535, Odo:21552km
 05757     04/20/2024 16:57:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 42%, Vpack:  99.68V, MotAmps:  71, BattAmps:  52, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  47C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:   4C, MotRPM:2570, Odo:21553km
 05758     04/20/2024 16:58:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 41%, Vpack:100.074V, MotAmps:  45, BattAmps:  32, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  47C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:   5C, MotRPM:2533, Odo:21554km
 05759     04/20/2024 16:59:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 41%, Vpack:101.028V, MotAmps: -35, BattAmps:  -8, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  46C, CtrlTemp:  16C, AmbTemp:   4C, MotRPM:1156, Odo:21555km
 05760     04/20/2024 17:00:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 40%, Vpack:  98.78V, MotAmps:  81, BattAmps:  73, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  48C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:   4C, MotRPM:3104, Odo:21556km
 05761     04/20/2024 17:01:22   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 18C, PackSOC: 39%, Vpack: 98.893V, MotAmps:  70, BattAmps:  64, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  49C, CtrlTemp:  18C, AmbTemp:   4C, MotRPM:3195, Odo:21557km

Title: Re: Zero S 2019 - Sevcon CAN Link Down
Post by: atomicdog on May 16, 2024, 11:46:21 PM

Did you check the connectors for the CAN bus also? Maybe it's a loose, dirty, or corroded.

Title: Re: Zero S 2019 - Sevcon CAN Link Down
Post by: victor6.7y on May 17, 2024, 02:53:59 AM

Yes i did. Im quite certain it is not a wirering issue

Title: Re: Zero S 2019 - Sevcon CAN Link Down
Post by: TheRan on May 17, 2024, 04:21:56 AM

First off, are you sure that the link down event correlates to you losing power? It itself isn't an error per se, but it happening when it shouldn't be is of course a fault. However as you've seen from the second set of logs the link going down alone isn't necessarily noticeable. When you do lose power you're also getting a bunch of other errors and they all seem to be related to overvoltage and overcurrent, and the contactor welded error also isn't good (I think someone explained to me before that it doesn't necessarily mean it is physically welded, but there is something preventing it from opening). I also notice that the "B" voltage is 100V which seems reasonable and lines up with the actual pack voltage reading, but the "C" voltage is anywhere from 113V to 138V. I'm not sure what B and C actually refer to but considering the battery only goes up to 116V that does seem a bit iffy.

More info about the error codes here if you want to try and make more sense of it: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Motor_Controller/CAN_Diagnostics

EDIT: Probably should have clarified, does the time stamp when the link goes down and you get all those errors actually line up with the time when you lose power. There could be other causes, when it was happening to me it was due to a faulty throttle and there wasn't anything in the logs that pointed to it.

Title: Re: Zero S 2019 - Sevcon CAN Link Down
Post by: victor6.7y on May 19, 2024, 02:45:55 AM

Sadly the time stamp does indeed line up with the time i lost power.
Now it also happens when i just turn on the bike without driving  :'(

I havent noticed the Bmvolts and Cmvolts yet till you mentioned it just now! I will look into that a bit more,

Title: Re: Zero S 2019 - Sevcon CAN Link Down
Post by: rgutt on May 23, 2024, 06:59:21 AM

The Sevcon technically doesn't need the CAN link to operate, but the way Zero has it setup, it does. Among other things, the MBB waits until it sees the throttle opened to about a volt as transmitted by the Sevcon over CAN. Only then does the MBB set the Forward input on the Sevcon so it'll move. And even before that, when you first key on, the MBB (or probably actually the BMS since it is the one with the control) waits for the signal from the Sevcon via CAN that it is ready to close the main contactor. The contactor output from the Sevcon is setup as a transmitted PDO that the BMS awaits before it actually closes the contactor. That's how it know the precharge in the controller is done so as not to blow the capacitors in the motor controller when closing the main contactor.

Now, to address your problem, assuming you have checked the obvious, i.e. all the physical connections from the Sevcon to the MBB, get yourself some aluminum foil tape like is often used on AC ductwork and wrap your wiring with it. CAN is very tolerance of noise, but the wires are running alongside cables carrying pulse-width modulated signals at amplitudes of hundreds of amps. I'd try that before I started looking at replacing the motor controller.

Title: Re: Zero S 2019 - Sevcon CAN Link Down
Post by: Demoni on May 26, 2024, 02:04:23 PM

I agree with Rgutt regarding possible interference with the CAN signals.

CAN relies on differential voltage (2V) between 2 wires (CAN-hi and CAN-lo) used to transmit data. Noise from wires carrying power can cause signal issues is wire insulation is compromised. Shielding the CAN wires can help.

Also worth checking the resistance between CANH and CANL for each device in the chain. You should measure 60? between the pins.

More information about CAN troubleshooting here:
https://support.enovationcontrols.com/hc/en-us/articles/360038856494-CAN-BUS-Troubleshooting-Guide-with-Video#:~:text=CAN%20Bus%20Termination,you%20should%20measure%2060%20ohms. (https://support.enovationcontrols.com/hc/en-us/articles/360038856494-CAN-BUS-Troubleshooting-Guide-with-Video#:~:text=CAN%20Bus%20Termination,you%20should%20measure%2060%20ohms.)