ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: Specter on January 16, 2024, 11:15:59 PM
-
Well,my corsa cliente finally showed up today! Wow this is a nice bike.
Unfortunately it's raining like a fkn hurricane right now in Jax, and this weekend, while the track is open it's going to be coming out of freezing temps the night before with a high in maybe the 50's not very good riding weather. God is teasing me!!
Anyways here are some pics for those who wanted them. Ill get some better ones posted tomorrow, it's raining out and we are between bands and I want to try to get the bike in the garage before it gets soaked.
Aaron
-
WOW!!!!!! Congratulations!!!!!!!
What a setup!
https://www.energicamotor.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/corsa-clienti-kit_en.pdf
Ride report when you get it to the track!
-
Pard don't expect much the first day. I am going to have to get the suspension set,right now it's a bit tall for my liking, im tippy toeing and the steering is way diff than my Ribelle, plus I got the R broke in so im good and flat footed and comfortable with it, this one, just a diff setup I will need some time to get used to.
Given it's going to be freezing the night before, I do NOT forsee me doing anything 'impressive' with the bike, besides maybe managing NOT to dump it in the days span :D
Don't worry though, Ill get it worked up and worked out and get a report back along with pictures to ya'all. Im in the process of putting my bike trailer together as well. It's going to have 40kw of battery storage in i t, possibly 15 to 30kw of supercaps too, 24k of inverters and my 30k fast charger to support running the bike. Also I am thinking I can get close to 2k of solar panels on the roof to help keep stuff charged up too. Since im putting that much into it, it'll also have AC in it to keep me cool on the summer days, (why not? i sure got the power for it!!) and possibly ill throw an air mattress in it too, save on the hotel bills. Throw in a beer fridge and a grill and I got a kick ass track weekend!
Now I'll just have to teach the bird to sit on my shoulder at 140 MPH hehe.
Aaron
-
That shock has height adjustment on the bottom of the unit near the clevis, and hydraulic preload can be easily adjusted to lower the height. The forks can be dropped on the triple.
Have a pro set you up to your comfort in terms of suspension.
Tire warmers are a must with slicks. You must keep the heat in them or they have worse traction than a street tire.
You have a serious piece of equipment there. Get some cameras mounted so we can enjoy your invesment!!!! :)
-
I was thinking of the camera's too, possibly a ram mount on the front fork to hold one looking forward and hope it focus' thru the windshield properly. I tried that with my samsung note and it was being a total bitch. All in time,I am thinking it's probably going to be fall time before I get everything the way I want it, tweaked and can truly call it Home Sweet Track Home :)
I totally get the warmer thing but on a cold ass track, so you put a hot ass tire on it, in one lap that track will pretty much suck any heat you had out of those tires won't it? That's one thing I am looking into now is warmers which to get etc.
Aaron
-
Camera mount in the stem of the triple tree is very secure and protected from wind blast.
https://rammount.com/products/ram-b-176-gop1u
Insta 360 is my preference over the go pro.
If you will be riding a cold track, switch to a performance street tire and save the slicks for the warmer seasons. You warm the tire until the 3rd call for your group to get on track and then you keep the bike accelerating and braking HARD to keep those tires warm.
So cool that you went all in on that performance!!!
-
I tried to mount a camera in the stem of my Ribelle's triple tree but the handlebars are very inconveniently located for that, so I went with a bolt mount for it instead. Turns out, two of the bolts will NOT come out, I can see where the dealer tried with them, so I'll end up having to drill the fuckers it seems and put new ones in. The TTM on the Cliente now it will fit perfectly in, there are no obstructions at all. I'll look into that camera you are saying but I already have a. oh hero 8?? 10? one of those. they change them every few months, not sure what number it is on now. Ill have to get a case and some sort of rubberized holder for it buffers the motor whine of the E bikes.
Aaron
-
This camera is awesome. Go Pro has way too many issues.
https://www.insta360.com/product/insta360-x3
-
Love those twisty roads. We got some nice ones out here but they are building all over the place, and these miserable dump trucks are dropping mud and shit all over the roads, when they are not running on the sides of them and busting the shit all up. The ground is very silty out here so every time it rains, that silt shit gets on everything and cakes and you gotta clean the hell out of it. I have a feeling that was a major contributor to my chain's shortened life span here on my Ribelle is silt and crap getting up in it.
You can clean every 100 miles but that stuff is so fine and SO abrasive. I doubt a grunge brush really gets it all. Do you know of like a dunk it that you can take a chain off and drop in a bucket of cleaner soak sloosh and scrub into? or on that, would just any bucket of solvent work to do that or are you risking wrecking your chain further not using a properly designed cleaner?
Aaron
-
Did you get rid of Ribelle or do you now have 2 bikes?
-
Did you get rid of Ribelle or do you now have 2 bikes?
The Corsa Cliente Ego is not street legal so it's purely a track bike. Ribelle for the roads!
-
I have 2 bikes wade.
The cliente for the track and the Ribelle for the track and the road.
Granted I have a feeling the corsica is going to be a shit ton much more fun on the track but the ribelle has it's fun too. the more relaxed riding position, gives a different 'experience'. At the end of the day, lets be honest,stuff you learn on the track, you can carry on over to street driving too, so learning it on the same bike you are running ON the street, is helpful.
Aaron
-
Love those twisty roads. We got some nice ones out here but they are building all over the place, and these miserable dump trucks are dropping mud and shit all over the roads, when they are not running on the sides of them and busting the shit all up. The ground is very silty out here so every time it rains, that silt shit gets on everything and cakes and you gotta clean the hell out of it. I have a feeling that was a major contributor to my chain's shortened life span here on my Ribelle is silt and crap getting up in it.
You can clean every 100 miles but that stuff is so fine and SO abrasive. I doubt a grunge brush really gets it all. Do you know of like a dunk it that you can take a chain off and drop in a bucket of cleaner soak sloosh and scrub into? or on that, would just any bucket of solvent work to do that or are you risking wrecking your chain further not using a properly designed cleaner?
Aaron
Yeah that fine stuff is most probably 30 % quartz and thus an excellent grinding medium.
Maybe you will never be able to avoid an 'early' death of your chain if you ride in those conditions. Consider to go with cheap chains and change them more often.
Soaking in solvents is not a good idea, it creeps behind the x-rings and dilutes the grease between pins and rollers, but that's the stuff you should try to protect. In the end it's a wear part.
Currently I have a EK (Enuma) chain with a screw-type master link, which makes installation quite easy and painless, but due to the detrimental weather here I was not able to ride much. So I don't know yet how long this chain will last.
BTW congrats to the new bike. May your tires point always in the right direction :D
-
IMHO, unless you are running with the lead in advanced group, there is no need for slicks or tire warmers.
I use warmers on DOT performance tires (not slicks) just so I can take turn 1 (at the start of the session) as fast as possible and not get caught in traffic, but they are not really needed on a DOT tire.
Slicks are beneficial for the really fast riders, much faster than I ride.
You need to become very proficient with getting your bike on and off stands (in the correct order, rear always first on and off) in a rush, in full gear, while sweating your ass off.
Any water on the track becomes a serious risk if you run a slick.
Seen more than one rider attempt to enter the track while still sporting a warmer on the tire! LOL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ub8rJhVHUY
-
Well, I have no clue yet how the bike will perform, how I will perform or any of that.
I am considering getting a regular set of tires, more race orientated but also street tires. I have some for my ribelle that i can swap on and off but changing those to the ego will be a big problem because the brakes on a race bike are a lot more robust and I don't want to have to change the brake caliper every time as well.
with that being said, charging, I am hoping that a 30 minute hot shot between sessions, that gives me 5 minutes in and out, is enough to top off the battery enough for the next session. I do believe throwing 60 amps at it for 25 to 30 minutes should be plenty for the next romp around. Just get the main beef into them and worry about a fine tune/balancing during the lunch break hehe.
That should not entail, hopefully having to really rush anything. My trailer is going to be Air Conditioned, I already have the unit picked out, it's a 2 hose portable at 9k btu so should be plenty, might even be able to move it out into the tent w/flaps, have to see.
Im getting better getting the bike up and down on the chock. and backside on the paddock. I am also thinking on the slicks, yah probably should be summer use tires only or when I finally Do get into full blown racing. All in time, with a little grace from god, I plan on being around at least a few more decades doing this stuff so no rush, except on the track of course :D
Sweating my ass off in leathers, oh don't remind me. I got my new leathers for the track too, they are the airbag leathers, and holy shit are these things TIGHT! They told me, oh they'll wear in and fit better, which I am sure they are but I need help getting in and out of them I can not get my arm out of them without help. THinking of bolting a big clamp on the side of the trailer to grab the sleeve maybe to help me pull them off. (This is also another incentive for me to lose weight too, I do need to dump about 12 or so pounds.. AGAIN :angry:
I also plan on bringing BOTH bikes when I goto the track as well. That way, if one has issues, there is the other one and it's not a lost day, not to mention if charging does take longer than expected, I can run one while the other is charging up.
It all remains to be seen as i perfect the process over the coming months.
Pard,next time you come down to Fla, look me up, let's plan on a good day on the River, in the Creeks, or out in the Ocean doing some off shore fishing then follow it up next day on the Track. I got the cooking covered, hell if we catch some fish we'll grill em at the track!
Aaron
-
Ok how do you imbed the picture instead of attaching it, it's not working right for me.
Aaron
-
....
Pard,next time you come down to Fla, look me up, let's plan on a good day on the River, in the Creeks, or out in the Ocean doing some off shore fishing then follow it up next day on the Track. I got the cooking covered, hell if we catch some fish we'll grill em at the track!
Aaron
:D For sure!
-
Sweating my ass off in leathers, oh don't remind me. I got my new leathers for the track too, they are the airbag leathers, and holy shit are these things TIGHT! They told me, oh they'll wear in and fit better, which I am sure they are but I need help getting in and out of them I can not get my arm out of them without help. THinking of bolting a big clamp on the side of the trailer to grab the sleeve maybe to help me pull them off. (This is also another incentive for me to lose weight too, I do need to dump about 12 or so pounds.. AGAIN :angry:
Same here ::)
As I do more road riding I choose a mtm two-piece which is more comfortable to enter. But if you're sweaty it gets difficult even if you have functional underwear (which I nevertheless strongly recommend). Having the suit for nearly a year or so I can confirm that it settles somewhat but much more due to the leather getting less stiff than being strechted. When I was at the track I saw more than one guy struggling ;D
If you really loose 12 pounds, the suit will not fit as well as before. Keep that in mind ;)
-
FWIW, I wear my full leathers for street and track, and I size them big so they are easy to get on and off and they are comfortable.
The reason to wear them skin tight is arguably to keep the armor in place, but I have found (through crashing) that the armor stays put even if you size up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2AcTUptNVg
-
I have 2 piece leathers for the road and the one piece for the track. two piece is easier to get on and off, and I also have riding pants that have the kevlar, knee armor and crap in it too for when it's really hot out. Another reason is, the street leathers have the street algo on the airbag system, and track has the track algo, so far Dainese has not made a combo suit that lets you pick which algo to run, which really sucks.
I probably should tell Dainese, make these a bit bigger, this is just too tight, but t hey assure me it's the way it's supposed to be, whatever. I think a little loose is not a problem, less chafing, etc even with the magical biker undies on (mormons eat your heart out :D :D ) Not to mention, god forbid you do end up in an ambulance, how do they get you out of those super tight leathers? Im assuming they cut them off you,where if it's a bit slack, they may try to undress you normally and not ruin them, anymore then the wreck probably did.
Aaron
-
After an accident, if you cannot move on your own, they will cut you out of your suit. They have special scissors for that.
There are insurance companies which expressly include personal safety gear, so look into the fine print of your policy.
In my view a tight suit acts a bit like an exoskeleton, hindering your limbs from flailing around too much and protecting your joints from being overextended.
During a rider training my instructor said, if you can grab your suit in height of the sternum with one hand and you can pull it away more than one or two centimeters, it is too large.
-
The suit has a liner in it as well that is removable to wash and air out. Can you wear it without that liner or do you really need to have the liner in. IM thinkig like summer months that thing is going to be a monster for heat retention. Another reason my trailer is going to be air conditioned with an extremely capable unit. I'll have the power to run it :D
I was going to go to the track today but it's frost on the ground now and yes it is supposed to heat up, but I don't need to take my brand ass new bike and dump the thing. on the first lap because the tires are cold, im cold and it's slick as owl shit. After some thought I think I am going to get some modified / track / road tires on it so there's some tread and not the slicks it came with for the cooler months as well. This way I am not always on that edge traction wise. I'll save the slicks for the warmer months, also after I got some laps under my belt and ain't such a noob to the track.
Aaron
aaron
-
@Specter , Stefano Mesa , the Energica Moto America wizard and YCRS instructor would be an ideal fellow to ring up for some private instruction on the track with your new weapon.
https://fb.watch/pLETQM7ojE/
-
that's what I was thinking too pard, possibly reattenting the one in september i so carolina but I want to get some track experience first so i got the basics out of the way and can concentrate on the important stuff, not the basic shit i am supposed to already know... if that makes sense.
last time I went there I had an absolute blast but the bike I had, shifting was acting up bad for me, plus my big fat frankenstein boot did not want to fit under the shifter very well and it was giving me issues and messed me up a bit. I want to be past that stage and where most the stuff is working great and im at the 'improvement' stage more than the 'just now learning how to' stage..
I am getting the racks put on my trailer that I will haul the bikes around in, there is a fucking month back order on my inverters so I may not have full capabilities yet BUT, Jennings will let me pull a 50 amp circuit so i can bring my fast charger and program it to only pull on one card up to 10 KW or so so I dont pop it. slowly it's getting there but I am hoping BY may or june, Ill have my trailer all built out with the full power setup for basically what is going to be 100 + amp service in a trailer with 40 to 60 KW depending on if I decide to supercap it or not, of storage. Its big enough for a blow up mattress too, so it can double as a place to sleep at night too with the AC in the thing. That'll save 100 bucks a night at hotels and pay for itself very quickly.
As a side benefit, which I don' need at home but, after a hurricane, I can literally park the trailer in your backyard, run a cord to your power panel and you got power. It'll have 3600 - 4000 watts of panels on it so in theory should grab about a good 20 kw or more a day on a good day. that'll run a house easily if you are a bit conservative on your consumption. It has an AWG for 10 gallons of water a day and a small hot water heater which I will use the waste heat from the AC to make hot water with.
I sell coffee online, mostly green to people who roast their own coffee and drink it but I do also sell roasted coffee as well. I was thinking of bringing the roaster with me and i can roast batches of fresh coffee between track runs and sell it at the track, to help offset the costs of my toys.
Race Day Roasters .... has a nice ring to it.
Aaron
-
Sounds like an awesome setup!
"Race Day Roasters" excellent!
-
Be careful...the Ego at slow speeds can be a handful compared to an Eva...
https://youtu.be/_7LscdLxsto (https://youtu.be/_7LscdLxsto)
-
PWM, he was walking it and had the front end turned and probably tapped the brake, that's a recipe for disaster there for BOTH bikes, not just the EGO. Ive done the exact thing in my garage in my early days of learning the thing. The only saving grace was it pinned against a table so I was able to get enough leverage to get my leg out from it and off it. However yes, once it's on you, you are not getting out from under it without help, that bitch is HEAVY, especially when it's horizontal and there really aren't any real good grab points to try to maneuver it around from your angle on the southside of the bike :D
-
PWM, he was walking it and had the front end turned and probably tapped the brake, that's a recipe for disaster there for BOTH bikes, not just the EGO. Ive done the exact thing in my garage in my early days of learning the thing. The only saving grace was it pinned against a table so I was able to get enough leverage to get my leg out from it and off it. However yes, once it's on you, you are not getting out from under it without help, that bitch is HEAVY, especially when it's horizontal and there really aren't any real good grab points to try to maneuver it around from your angle on the southside of the bike :D
So true.
I like to encourage newer riders to understand that a motorcycle is not a bicycle.
Treat it like a loaded gun, improper handling WILL BE catastrophic.
When pushing it or riding it slowly, any lean angle will cause a disaster.
Most of us learned this lesson the hard way at some point!
-
I don't think I got much more than 3 or 4 degrees and over it went. The real shitty thing was, you FELT it starting to go, heaved on it, and just took a slow ride down to about 20 degrees then whump down ya'all went. It felt like for a second I was going to save it, but then you feel your muscles strain and your foot creak and it's like, F%%k, nope, not today :D :D
Just glad I didn't have my airbag on, THAT would be not only embarrassing but expensive too!
Riding it slowly is not so much a disaster, you have the balance down from your riding experience, pushing it now, it's hard to judge any lean on it until it's pulling, and it ALWAYS seems it wants to pull away from you so you don't have much fight to reach over and stop it. If it start falling towards you, you could always hunker down and hold/push it back in place, but reaching to pull it, yah good luck with that!
Aaron
-
I had that happen on my Multistrada coming off the centerstand while sitting in the saddle. There was a slight slope to the garage floor that I hadn't really noticed before so I didn't realize that I needed to put more weight on my left to correct the height difference and slooooowly down she went! Luckily the bike had barkbusters and sliders so a slight scuff on the side case and bruised ego were the only casualties.
-
Bringing the EGO to the shop wednesday to have the suspension set for me, on it, and probably put some track tires on it. It's a bit too cold yet for slicks and I don't want to fk around with tire warmers quite yet. Took the Ribelle to the track today for a romp. Man that was fun, but crap, tore up my street tires pretty good :D Gonna need to get 3 sets of tires. DOT regular, Cold Track, Slicks and ill be good to go.
The Ribelle handled great, I needed to let some air out of the tires, running at what they recommend them tears up tires on hard corners, about 32 psi is working so far, still tweaking with it. Most interesting thing, I thought for sure i'd eat the hell out of the battery but NO !! A 20 minute run took maybe 15 to 20 percent off it, and I was hitting WOT fairly often and I think my slowest corner I was taking at about 50 mph. I guess I can say it averaged 1 percent per mile, which is NOT bad considering how you ride a bike on the track, it's NOT a sunday drive thats for sure!
I brought my fast charger and limited it to 50 amp AC in, which is about 35 amp on the bikes dash since that is all they gave me is 50 amp service. Still plenty of time to charge the bike up to like 98 percent, I actually cut it short, didn't feel like dicking around with the last 2 percent for however long it wanted to take to balance.
Cant wait to get the EGO on the track, but Jennings GP, honestly the Ribelle is all you'll ever need there, there really is not any room to open that ego up to what it can do! (the brand new on ramp to I10 now, oh wait, nevermind). Im so used to riding the Ribelle, on track, and it's my street bike of course, getting on the EGO is going to be such a different experience, I hope I learn it as quick as I did the Ribelle.
Even stock brakes on the Ribelle when you are slamming it from 120 mph to 60 mph in 300 to 400 feet, it handled it just fine. I am pretty sure the EGO is going to do even better since it has upgraded brakes on it, and a much better suspension.
Was initially worried how it was going to handle charging and with my setup if it'd be enough, now I see it is going to be tons of plenty, for BOTH bikes! and everything else.
Next week is an off weekend, following I'll be at the track with my EGO fully setup for me and ready to go! Now my only problem is my new leathers, holy shit, they are like a straight jacket, I sure hope they open up a bit, I really don't want to send them to Cali to get the chest opened up if I can help it, don't want to wait the month(s) it'd probably take.
One thing I DID learn, now I know what use a tank bag would be. Track leathers have no pockets, so nowhere to put the ribelle key for the wireless system. I also have a Dragy lap timer and it needs to see the phone, (not happy about that so will probably get an official chromo since I will need it when I eventually do get good enough to get into racing) But putting a tank bag on,attached to the frame so it's considered tethered, would be great to hold your keys, phone, gps, whatever you need!
Ill post again in a few weeks once I get the EGO out and let you all know how it handles, although I am certain it'll handle a lot better than I currently am capable of handing it :)
Aaron
PS ill try to get the photographer to get some action photos. Was going to get some today but had a major wreck and they life flighted the guy out via helicopter so that pretty much killed the photo shoot for the morning.
-
^^^^ AWESOME!!!
-
One thing I am noticing Pard, the Ribelle, you are sitting pretty upright up so your center of balance is pretty much straight up and down, if the bike starts leaning you got some umph to push down your leg to get it back where it needs to be, when at a standstill. The EGO now, you are hunched over it and straddled over it, your center of gravity is NOT pivoted straight down over your legs to get you lots of leverage, if that bike starts leaning, you are NOT planted to hold the bitch up, you are laying on it, with little leg torque to stop it from going over, and maybe it's just because my suspension is not right but the EGO feels a lot more top heavy, at standstill then the Ribelle is.
I am hoping a lot of that goes away when I can get myself flat footed on it and a firm stand on the ground, vs. my current more tippy toe holding the bike upright.We'll see Wednesday after I get it back from the shop. Then two weeks later when I get it on the track for a little R and D on my cornering! Need to figure out why I am tearing up tires, although some have told me that this track is just rotten on tires period. The leading edges are worn down and there are globs of rubber cemented on the tire a bit back from the leading edges. I can see where a few times I was riding on the sidewall and in fact I think I know when!! I felt it start slipping or like bouncing once or twice on turn 8 coming into 9 and backed WAY down, thankfully I had a warning and didn't lowside, but yah, that would have been a rough way to learn your current limit!
Too bad there aren't more people out here with electric bikes. Id LOVE to have a track day with just E bikes whirring around the track!
Aaron
-
You will acclimate to the EGO for sure. Just give yourself time.
Yes, tires wear rapidly when you ride track. They are a consumable like fuel. 2 maybe 3 track days on a set of hypersport tires (DOT street legal high performance tires).
Consult the tire vendors at your track and the expert riders. They will help you set proper pressure.
A rule of thumb that generally works is you should see an increase of 10% front, up to 20% rear cold to hot pressure if the inflation is correct.
So lets say you set the rear at 32 psi cold, you should see around 35 -38 psi right when you get off the track.
Front set to 36 cold should be around 40 when you get back to the paddock.
If the pressure rises too much you have too little air in the tire. Add a pound or two psi and try again. If the pressure does not rise enough, take out a pound or two of air.
One of the benefits of tire warmers, even on no slick tires, is the ability to set hot tire pressure and not have to see what type of change you experience hot to cold.
My hot pressures on the Rebelle on Hypersport tires are 36 rear and 40 front HOT.
The Energica has a ton of weight shifted on to that front tire when you scrub speed (that massive battery) so you need very different tire pressure settings compared to other bikes at the track.
-
Ive noticed that with the speed .vs. weight you can feel it really dive sometimes when you have to hit the brakes a bit harder than you wished you did, had some clown passed me in a turn we got into the setup for the straight away him dead in front of me and for some reason he slowed WAY down. I ended up standing on the brakes and going wide, the guy behind us flew by both of us heading for the weeds, he was not happy.
I got some looks when I was talking about the bike and others were saying yah, mine weighs 350, 380 lbs give or take and im saying, yah, mine weighs almost 600. Had a few come up to me after a session and say holy shit I had no idea that thing could take off like that, I was right behind you and we got into the straight and you were gone! I was polite of course but was thinking, what, you didn't think a heavy bike could be fast, or you didn't think electric bikes could be fast, (even given a motor is nothing but torque)
One thing I did notice I got a little pulsation in my front brake now, it's not bad but wondering if I goobered up a brake pad, I don't see anything on the rotor, but they do have 10k miles on them. That's one thing I will have to do with the Ribelle is get the suspension adjusted as well when I get the chance. Soon enough I'll be hauling both bikes along and there's generally a guy there from one of the Moto shops that does just that thing. I'll grab a set of tires off him and have him set the suspenion too, maybe he'll cut me a bit of a deal :)
You need to come down this way, lets do a track weekend! Weather is a lot nicer down here than where you are, let's make it a long fishing / biking weekend heh! I'll help you talk the old lady into letting you go :D :D
Aaron
-
;D
-
Owning now my 3rd Energica I can say the only way to avoid brake judder is to not use the brakes AT ALL. Nether. Undo mo circumstances ;D.
Anything else will come with a certain likeliness that judder will appear sooner (3-5000km) or later (8-10000km).
-
Well, you can almost accomplish that in normal riding with regen set high, using the brakes only for emergency or final 2 foot of stopping so it's not a sloppy walk but they have minimal application.
On the track now, you have no choice, when you are doing 120 and the turn is coming up in 400 feet, you better start braking, and pretty hard too.
One thing I did notice about it, after a while, after I came into some corners a little hotter than I wanted to and used the brakes VERY hard, it seemed to go away a bit like I burned a bit of it off. My tires sure seen the brunt of it, I will put track tires on next run, I used my Michelin road 6 and although they did well, they are a bit expensive for the track and it blobbed them up pretty good.
I will have 3 sets of tires. Road, Cold Track, Slicks I think from now on. One thing at a time. need to get used to the EGO first so I can start pushing it like the Ribelle and then see what I can do to make everything the same so I dont have a million spares.
Right now the R's brakes seemed to do very well on the track, but ultimately I think id be best to ultimately as I wear it out, switch UP to the better brakes and suspension like is on the EGO,so both bikes / same parts. The olin shocks will be costly im sure but in the end, this sport is not cheap. By doing so I can use parts interchangeably between BOTH bikes as needed.
Im estimating every track day is about 500 dollars. At least im not spending 2 to 300 dollars on hi octane oxygenated gas to run the thing! 120 dollars for 5 gallons of gas is fkn insane. The fun is worth it though, and you DO learn street skills too, so you can react faster and with more confidence on the road if some shit goes up in front of you and you have to do a duck and lean to get out of it's path.
Aaron
-
@Specter Do you use your rear brake?
This bike benefits from full utilization of rear brake along with front brake when riding track.
The rear brake application causes the rear to squat down a bit as it slows the bike, helping reduce the load transfer to the front a bit, while helping to share the slowing load with the front brake.
If you find it too hard to use your foot and modulate the rear brake application (I can't do it very well), then have a left hand rear brake or thumb brake installed.
Makes a big difference IMHO.
You can try using rear brake next time you are on the track. Apply it in the braking zone while upright, along with the front. I think you will feel the difference.
Two excellent videos linked to below:
https://fb.watch/qjf7Gc0ZGn/
210 MPH down to 70 in a few seconds ... they use the rear brake to help the front...
https://youtu.be/e0EqTjPEvV4?feature=shared
Good video that explains the geometry changes that rear brake provides.
-
Well I got her out on the track today. Wow, where to begin.
First off, there were a LOT of people pretty much the entire day asking questions about the bike, and complimenting on how awesome it looks. Several folks mentioned, this is the first E bike i seen in person, so spent of time showing it off. Awesome bike, im proud to show it off, especially the way they built it for me, total quality through and through.
At first I had the power setting down low until I got comfortable with the bike. I am used to riding the Ribelle in a relaxed position, this EGO is hard core race bike, you are hunched over, and my little squat ass is on the balls of my feet not able to touch the ground fully with both planted feed. It came with 200/65 tires on it, so yah it's tall. I found that it didn't take long at all to get used to it, the bike is like it just naturally knew what it needed to do and I wanted to do.
Going around turns was a breeze and it was tight as crap, I found myself sometimes almost turning too tight, basically telling me, ok I can open up the speed on this one a bit, get your crap together Aaron :D. By the end of the morning sessions I was taking turns at 60 to 75 mph with this one that I was only doing maybe 50 on the Ribelle, because it just handled them so much better, the suspension squat right in and held beautifully, no wobbldy whoop going around corners, and a very crisp stand back up. in fact coming out of corners, I was accellerating about 40 percent into the turn and really hammering it once i got pointed the direction I wanted to be. The ribelle you better be pretty well already facing where you want to before romping the throttle, this one, it's a smooth takeoff and you better hold on when you do romp it. Speed, after the first round, I was pretty confident so opened up the power band to max, and opened up my regen to max as well. I wish the regen was a little more powerful, I really love it for controlling the bike, especially around corners. IT's a good way to shed speed if you did not get too obnoxious with the throttle.
Jennings has a long loping back turn that you are at a lean angle but it's pretty much a straight run and you can get some speed up, but you BETTER shed it by turn 3 or VERY soon afterwards because while 3 is a loping left, 4 is a son of a bitch right and 5 is right after 4 with a sharp left, if you are coming into 3 hot you are going to jam yourself on 4 and probably end up in the grass. THe bike is deceptive. I was on that back run, tucked over, throttle open, .. enjoying the ride, the wind screaming in my helmet should have been a warning to check my speed. I came up approaching on 3 at about 135, hmm. You don't realize how fast you are putting speed on.
Ive taken it at about 80 before but HARD brake to hit 4 at about 50 ish and about 45 on 5. (Im a novice here so as I get better I am sure my speeds will get better but for now this is about the max of my current comfort zone.) I laid on those brakes HARD or Id be in the grass, and the grass is NOT smooth, it's lumpy as shit and you are not going to just smoothly make your way back on the track most times. Well, when you hammer the brakes hard, the bike does want to stand up, so any lean angle you may have is going away, I hit the brakes harder. (yes rookie mistake, this was totally MY fault) Let me tell you those front brakes are just insane STUPID strong!! That bike shed speed like you would not believe. In fact when I let off the brakes, they were still angry at me and chattering for about a second after, at the end of that stunt. I was slow enough to finally get into the turn so bent it way over. The bike just slapped over on it's side and like nothing I made the turn, pretending like I really wanted to do that all along 8)
This is another problem I have, I tend to do 'street rider' and have my feet out in front of the pedal, when i take a hard turn, it starts dragging the side of my foot on the asphalt, ok dummy, put your foot further back on the peddle and KEEP IT THERE. Two turns later, I am dragging my knee, it scraped the ground.. ok so the bike takes stupid sharp turns. The Ribelle would have been bouncing at this point. (Not to Dis the Ribelle, I am pretty positive that is completely tune outable with some suspension adjustments, but the EGO is just designed for this stuff SO much better out of the box to begin with)
My first run was about 13 miles in the 20 minute period. After that i was averaging 20 to 22 or so miles per 20 minute run, so picked up my game significantly
Battery, the battery held out stupid good, thru ALL that, I was averaging about a percent drop per mile, although at about 40 percent left it really started cascading with the abuse I was hitting it with. I started at 96 percent and ended the morning run at 26 percent battery left with 68 miles travelled on the track.
The plug I was at was rated at 50 amps but the breaker was weak so I could only put about 35 amps into the bike w/o tripping it, so charging was a bit slower than I wanted but I still got back up to 94 percent after lunch break was over and our turn was next on the track. The battery never hit yellow BUT, after a particularly hard run, I immediately recharged, (I was going to let someone else try the bike and wanted a full bat for him) it did curtail my charging from 30 dialed in to only 24 allowed, and did this for about 5 or 6 minutes then walked it right up to the asked for 30 amps. Me thinks core temp was a bit warm so it did that. The sun was burning down on the bike too, and with the black fairings and the battery enclosed in that, I am sure it did not help matters.
I let someone else try the bike and he let me on his ninja, that was a lot of fun too. At the end of our sessions, he drove the EGO back and just said, wow, I thought electric bikes were kind of a joke but THAT thing, is sick. Now I understand what you meant when you said, you can get yourself in trouble with it pretty quick if you are not careful. At one point I was thinking, is this bike giving me everything it is able to do? but after hearing the guy racing crotch rockets saying, this bike is scary, I just said to myself, well I guess it is, it's probably just the adrenaline you don't realize how stupid fast you really are taking off.
At the end of the day, a lot of people checking out the bike and basically loving it. Trust me, I love it too at this point. Well, I take that back, I think I am going to actually hate this bike. It is going to cost me a LOT of money in tires and track days here!!
The bike was very limber, it handled super well, even with a novice on the seat, braking is just obscene on it for those oh shit moments, and the acceleration is passing liter bikes for the short few seconds before you gotta jam brakes for the turn at least :D
Jennings is a really fun track but it's all turns, most of them left. i wish there was a track close that you could easily get on that you could just pop the thing and open it up. Well there is the new service road / on ramp they just built... yah, I better not ;D
It's a bit top heavy, as we all know, and being in quasi moto mode all hunched over it, is a bit awkward on the walk to the starting line during group change, but and as we all know, once you get it going a few mph, it basically is just finger touch steering at that point.
Next track day is end of March, I totally plan on being there again!
If any of you are around north florida, come on in, let's do the track thing, I got your charge up covered !
Aaron
-
Excellent write-up Sir.. ;D
Smithy.
-
Well done!
-
So I got the data downloaded out of my track suit and analyzed it. Yah, I didn't mention a few other mistakes I made during the day, ie running into the grass once when I got jammed by someone passing me on a turn, (I should have just let off the throttle harder and let the asshole pass me, instead of thinking he would do it properly and NOT fucking slow down once he got in front of me and was too wide on his turn.) In retrospect I SEEN the turn coming up fast, and knew it was a lower speed turn and should have just backed out and let him do his thing, and get himself in trouble instead of forcing me into the fray as well when he cut off my path to the meatball. This is how I knew the grass was NOT a smooth ride in my last write up, it jerked and yanked you all over the place, at 64 mph. My heavier bike was able to slug thru it more and not bounce about so much as a little 300 lb bike might. I think the bike weighing 580 lbs was a major factor in me not taking a tumble, I was able to get slowed down and aimed at the track again, it seemed like 4 or 5 seconds to me, but after seeing the data capture was a little over just once second. Got on the track again, he was about stopped, waved at me (im assuming that was an apology) and we kept on our way.
My previous comment about the bike standing up on a hard braking in a slight turn. Im thinking it's more, the bike is stopping FAST. I am NOT a part of the bike, I am just hitching a ride, so not being bolted down to the thing, my body position is changing, ie sliding forward under the decel, pushing me back up in to the front of the seat, (which of course eliminates any lean I have going on, which of course eliminates the bikes command to turn) so that's why it was standing back up, because I am being forced up into the seat, or pulling myself into the seat with the far hand, forcing it. I was trying to figure out the why this is happening thing, but after seeing the hard data, the speed, the lean angle, the g forces being generated, etc I understand pretty well now. I need to get any heavy braking done BEFORE any thoughts of leaning for a turn, and let the regen take care of any additional lesser braking I may need to do during the turn.
Being able to see a tick by tick of your entire race day is pretty awesome but holy crap a lot of data is being saved, gigs worth. Being able to see turns, and where you are having problems at and what is happening I think is going to be a fantastic tool towards fixing issues.. and when something don't work, you can see ok this is what went wrong.
Another thing that is odd is, when there are no other people around you, you are in your own 'area' on the track they are behind you and there is no engine noise, you can hear the tires gripping the pavement on turns, initially this was kind of an 'oh shit' WTF?? because hearing that on a regular road, you are thinking crap, I hit some sand in the road or something and my tires are sliding, but no, on the track it's just the tires gripping and doing their thing. You WILL hear it though if they do start to slide, (yes I felt it too) I pushed one turn a bit too hard and the tires started slipping a little bit, oh you need to learn THAT sound, but being able to hear your tires, is odd, yet kind of cool at the same time. You can't hear that with an engine screaming at 115 db.
I also forgot to mention that several people posed for pictures by the bike as well. Not sure why but I had no problems with it. I feel that anything we can do to positively promote electric bikes in the long run, makes it better for us overall. The more people are familiar with them or want one themselves, the more support we should see in the long run... hopefully.
I just need to do the time to get better on it and more comfortable with it, more familiar and hopefully by the end of the season I'll have my racing license... and be spending even MORE money.
Aaron
-
^^^ Outstanding! Did you record any video?
-
NO I DID NOT !! >:(
The tether thingie for my camera did not work and I didn't want the camera flying off on the track so left it at the trailer.
I have one of those x grip things on the bike and while it holds the phone nice and snugly one good pothole will pop the thing out and if you are not fast to notice and catch it, you are doing a U TURN using the cardo to find your friggin phone,
The photographer that is normally at the track taking pictures, decided to ride that day as well, instead of taking pictures / vids
so hoping in a few weeks when it is an open track again, Ill be able to get some videos as well as stills.
Hopefully I can find some time to get stuff all set up for next track day and get some photos for you. I was thinking of a helmet mounted camera but I tend to scan a lot and not just look straight ahead and that would probably get annoying as hell on video.
Aaron
-
Im looking thru the data from the suit, man this is going to be a pretty nasty learning curve. This program is just stupid powerful to analyze it, I barely scratched the surface of it.
Here's one small example, I have most the other channels turned off except lean angle and speed
-
Just for giggles and shits, I looked at my regular street riding leather jacket and it has the same type data in it as well as the racing suit.
I think it might be lacking some logging functions but I am seeing a lot of common to track suit stuff. I am downloading it now to see what all is there and if it can be analyzed like the track suit data can.
One thing I noticed is that it WILL give you live readings on your suit being plugged into the computer. I do NOT want to find out the hard way but hopefully the protection is not live in this mode!! Id hate to see the suit pop because I was downloading my last trip to the liquor store :D
Aaron
-
Very cool technology. There are some good apps for the phone that also provide some helpful data.
I even use it on track.
https://apps.apple.com/au/app/biketrip/id456866549
-
Thanks pard, I have that Dragy timer thing and am going to get an official chromo that they do use for racing which gives all kinds of data too on speed etc.
The phone thing, I was thinking of that, my dragy goes thru the phone but how to mount it on the bike. the X mount just will NOT cut it i dont think so ill have to either get a tank mounted bag or somehow figure how to carry my phone with me, my leathers have zero pockets so that idea is out and the boots are too tight to shove down the side.
Aaron
-
The phone thing, I was thinking of that, my dragy goes thru the phone but how to mount it on the bike.
I am using the Quadlock system. There are phone model specific cases with a connector and they have several mounts that can be fixed to the stem, the bar, the mirror etc.
I use the bar mount and it worked well when I was on the racetrack once.
https://www.quadlockcase.com/collections/shop-motorcycle
-
The phone thing, I was thinking of that, my dragy goes thru the phone but how to mount it on the bike.
I am using the Quadlock system. There are phone model specific cases with a connector and they have several mounts that can be fixed to the stem, the bar, the mirror etc.
I use the bar mount and it worked well when I was on the racetrack once.
https://www.quadlockcase.com/collections/shop-motorcycle
Good choice. I currently use the ram mount system, works, but it is not the best. I will be switching to qudlock as well. They also have a cool vibration isolation option that will save your phone from damage.
-
The ram mount, I have that now on my Ribelle, but a nice pothole or sharp bump will jar the phone loose, it's happened to me twice now. First time fortunately was right before a set of train tracks, and train was there so when I noticed it missing, i was able to circle back and use my Cardo to relocate where it fell off. Second time, it was on a shitty stretch of road, I hit some flat potholes and it jarred out of its holder again, but thankfully I seen it and it was on my tank and I was able to grab it and pull over and re mount it before it hit the pavement.
Even with those though, they want an actual tether, something hard mounted/tied on/bolted on. If you come off the bike don't need the phone flying somewhere and then trying to find it, or it gets ran over or causes other issues when it smacks someone during it's short but fast flight.
Aaron
-
I use the rubber tether all the time with the x mount. That keeps it very secure even at triple digit speeds. The issue is vibration. Ram does little to help that and it will kill the phone after a few months.
https://rammount.com/products/ram-tether1u
https://rammount.com/pages/ram-x-grip
Quad lock is a better solution IMO.
-
I already have the X grip. How does the tether work, does it wrap around the outside of the phone and thru the fingers on the X?
I like the quadlock system better from what I am seeing, and will probably end up getting one of those.
I have a samsung note 23 which can record, but getting the thing to focus far and quit changing focus when shooting thru the windshield is proving to be a bit of a problem. Even when I fix the focal point it wants to readjust when the scene changes.
Aaron
-
The rubber tether holds the edges of the phone and pulls it against the x mount. Secure, but the vibration issue still persists.
I plan to move to the quadlock system on my bikes. Better design.
They also have a wireless charging system available so you can have vibration attenuation, wireless charging, and secure worry free mounting all in one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M39pl5xlgqE
-
The rubber tether holds the edges of the phone and pulls it against the x mount. Secure, but the vibration issue still persists.
I plan to move to the quadlock system on my bikes. Better design.
They also have a wireless charging system available so you can have vibration attenuation, wireless charging, and secure worry free mounting all in one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M39pl5xlgqE
Have the Quadlock "wireless charging" setup on my Experia...and all my other bikes too...it's nothing but brilliant IMHO.
Smithy.
-
Have the Quadlock "wireless charging" setup on my Experia...and all my other bikes too...it's nothing but brilliant IMHO.
Totally agree, I got the wireless charging head for Christmas and it's really nice!
Whether you really need that anti-vibration setup, I do not know. I used the Quadlock without it for my iphone 8 for about 25,000 km and the reason why I needed a new phone was because I dropped it (broken screen glass), not because of the bike's vibrations ::)
-
I wonder if an E bike has the same vibrations to be honest.
An ICE is percussing at 10 to 12k rpm, essentially every spark plug firing. That's a HF noise really, and the banging of the ignition.
An E bike yah the motor may spin that speed but it's not causing a physical 'thump' every time a pole swings by or something of that nature like a cylinder head full of gas is.
I don't think E bikes have that same hi freq issue that ice bikes do.
Aaron
-
I suspect the cell phone worries are overblown. Not saying it’s completely made up, but I bet most people’s phones still work just fine. My iPhone 12 Mini hasn’t had any camera focus problems in the 1 1/2 years I’ve had the FJR and the wireless RAM mount.
-
Good point, Aaron!
-
I have destroyed 2 iPhone cameras mounted on a RAM mount. Hard to know if it was the Energica or the ICE bikes that did them in.
I think the road provides plenty of vibration regardless of the power system driving the bike.
Ordered the quadlock system and will see if any more cameras bite the dust.
https://www.quadlockcase.com/blogs/news/introducing-the-vibration-dampener
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NfVlBuNEJM&t=2s
-
I suspect the cell phone worries are overblown. Not saying it’s completely made up, but I bet most people’s phones still work just fine. My iPhone 12 Mini hasn’t had any camera focus problems in the 1 1/2 years I’ve had the FJR and the wireless RAM mount.
Same, I had a Galaxy S10 in my Janky home made mount (on my KTM 1190 Adventure) for years with no problems on the camera. Then my S22 Ultra spent the first years of it's life in the same mount. It still shoots great pics and vids.
-
oh yes the road has plenty of vibration so will your tires, especially after they start wearing a bit and start to sing to you. Anything that can help dampen them whether it be a constant beat freq or just the whump of hitting a pothole or the typically shitty road in jacksonville which has thousands of tiny little mountains that pop up out of the surface like running over sticks all the time, it surely can't hurt.
Ill have to get one of these and give it a try.
Aaron
-
Vibrations will only be a issue if the phone you are mounting has a camera with "active" image stabilization. Over time the sensitive motors and sensors used in these systems will be damaged. I had 2 iPhone 7+ replaced under warranty due to this issue.
Apple actually made an official statement regarding this issue https://support.apple.com/en-us/102175 (https://support.apple.com/en-us/102175).
I suspect the non consistent vibrations coming from the road surface would have a much lower impact vs the constant high frequency vibrations of a ICE bike.
With that said using a vibration damping mount from Quadlock or Rokform won't hurt. Plus they provide a secure connection the RAM X mount does not.
-
I can attest that a Ram X mount, the phone looked secure as hell, gave it a good wiggle it was tight.
One fucking pothole and that bitch popped right out. It was 11 pm ish and I didn't notice it gone until I heard, phone disconnected. I generally don't look down AT the phone when riding, Im busy watching the road.
Using Cardo, ...Phone connected / Phone disconnected to get an idea of where it popped out, I luckily found it on the side of the road before it got ran over 40 times.
I was thinking of using my Galaxy 23 Ultra on the track for videos, I got enough articulation pieces for my Ram mount to put it right where I need it, but the only problem is, getting to keep focus OUT THERE, and not shifting every time the scenery does and focusing on the windshield so the road is blurry. After fricking with that for a day I decided I better stick with my GoPro 10?? I think it is, even with it's quirks, but now to get IT solidly tethered down. I didn't want to be 'that guy' who yellow flagged the track because my stupid camera is laying in the middle of turn 8 or something!
I'll eventually get the phone thing set up right, but my first priority is getting the trailer all set up for support. I finally got all the parts in, my inverters showed up, now to get them to install the rack on top for the solar panels, and figuring out where I want to bolt everything down at inside. Inverters and batteries. Fast Charger, Super Caps, I don't want to put them all the way forward, don't need a ton of weight on the tongue, but putting on the sides, I need to make sure I got room to get on and off the bikes when running them in, and in the case of a mishap, the bike is NOT going to fall over onto a busbar with 800 amps running thru it.
I have a feeling this thing is NOT going to be fully implemented until later in the year. About May, the track out here closes down for a few months because it just gets too hot to run bikes. The pavement gets so hot it tears up your tires, so they shut down until about Sept. However there ARE still tracks open, Ill just have to travel a bit, Georgia, the Carolina's, 'Bama, and I am contemplating maybe a trip to Texas to watch the hooligan series when it's out there to see Stefano hopefully pop a podium stand again. I was at the Daytona one a few weeks ago, and had a blast hanging out.
My logic on this one, the money I am putting into the trailer. A: It's fun, I don't give a #%^#$ what anyone else thinks. B: NOT paying 40 bucks for power hookup is nice, C: NOT paying 100 bucks a night for a hotel room, the trailer is fully AC with an inflatable bed in it. This ole redneck has no problem camping! A little fridge, plus with essentially a portable 100 amp service, I can bring my coffee roaster so I have fresh coffee in the morning too!! Just gotta figure out a cage to keep the rottentoo in and we'll be golden!
Race Day Roasters. Offer folks fresh coffee when they wake up in the morning. It might help pay for my hobby a bit :D
I got the solar panels laying out in my driveway now acting like an aux to my house panels, I got them pumped in non grid tied. Initial estimates, I can get about 18 KW/hr of power on a good day. That'll more than charge my bike for a full day on the track, and keep the AC rolling to keep me cool in the trailer at night. Plus every track I've been on, offers 120 V on the paddock for free, so a slow charge on that will keep me topped off.
Once I get this monstrosity all put together, Ill post plenty of pics, and 'how I did it's here for ya'all to see.
Aaron
-
The Go Pro 10 will do the job. Use a screwdriver to tighten down all the locking knobs. Finger pressure is not enough for high speed use. Cable ties around those knobs to your bike will tether it well enough. You can kill someone if it lets go and departs the bike.
Run usb power to the camera instead of a a battery to eliminate the PITA file corruption that occurs when the battery gets low. Or put in a fresh battery for every session. The only really big problem with the camera.
Your self contained power plant trailer is AWESOME.
Certainly seems to be the first of it's kind on Earth.
Energica should sponsor you. What an amazing advertising platform that will be at every track you visit.
And coffee to boot! WOW!
-
I'll probably run the go pro setup. The phone has some sort of app on it to remote control it and I can get sort of a preview wifi'd to the phone to see what's going to be filmed when I do start it up. Just need to tie the phone down somewhere on the bike. I was thinking I might need that bag that they offer for the gas tank. I can put all the stuff in there. The lap timer, the dragy, the phone etc and know it's all in one place.
The charging, I was thinking I could make like a little wagon to wheel a smaller version out. You could in theory put a 12k solark on a little pull along wagon, throw a 15k supercap on that, and then my 30kw fast charger on that and wheel it around for a quick portable adjustable fast charge for the bike. As for sponsoring, yah that'd be awesome but then again, having a rig up, there is always the issue of liability. No matter the company, they are an OFFICIAL company, not some knee jerk- jerk, like I am :D Something goes wrong and starts a fire somewhere and they burn down a few garage bays, thats a multi million dollar lawsuit.
But yes, I am great free advertising for the bike, so far the times I have taken them to the track, I am getting a pretty big audience of people walking by to take a look at the 'electric bike' and ask a bunch of questions, especially after I have run it a few times and they see me flying by the finish line at 115 mph. (yes it can go a lot faster but the Ribelle does NOT have the brakes the EGO has and coming that fast into turn 1 would be a nasty issue so I gotta play nice, plus I don't want to alter my riding style TOO MUCH between bikes. It's all a huge learning curve for me now currently as it is and trying to keep some consistency helps a lot until I get good enough that I got the basic stuff at muscle memory quality now and CAN now focus on the little things.) Im hoping later in the year, by the time I am ready to go for my racing license, Ill have most the basic stuff down pat and be skilled enough to finesse the finer details ouf of my gear. It's all a work in progress and one that gets expensive.,
Yah it's a total blast, I love it but I estimate that each track day is costing me about 500 dollars. That's a number of sacks of green coffee I need to sell to pay for that, which takes time too! Having sponsorS would be helpful (plural there) but I need to get to that point first where they'd be interested. Maybe I can rig the bikes computer to mine bitcoin somehow and hit a block when Im on the track and strike a payday there :D OH man wouldn't that be something !
Aaron
-
(yes it can go a lot faster but the Ribelle does NOT have the brakes the EGO has and coming that fast into turn 1 would be a nasty issue so I gotta play nice, plus I don't want to alter my riding style TOO MUCH between bikes.
Aaron
Upgrading the front brake pads to a more race focused compound will make provide a higher coefficient of friction (more total stopping power), less fade at higher temperatures and a stronger initial bite. The pad compound (Z04) used in the calipers that are part of the corsa kit are also available for the calipers (M50) found on production Energica.
https://www.af1racing.com/br107a48639-brembo-z04-front-brake-pads-br107a48639 (https://www.af1racing.com/br107a48639-brembo-z04-front-brake-pads-br107a48639)
In addition replacing the brake fluid to a higher temperature race product will reduce front brake fade.
Brembo LCF600, Castrol SRF and Motul RBF700 all have a much higher boiling point vs the fluid used from the manufacture.
I'll probably run the go pro setup.
Aaron
I suggest you add a ND filter to whatever setup you decide to run on the bike. ND filters reduce the amount of light available to the sensor. This gives you better control over aperture and frame rate settings. This gives you more control over focus and motion blur.
This is a video shot with a ND32 filter on a DJI action 2 camera.
https://youtu.be/UNrUU5Hq7WA (https://youtu.be/UNrUU5Hq7WA)
-
Thank you Demoni.
I am actually thinking of upgrading the entire front brake caliper in time on the Ribelle. I want the parts between the bikes to match as closely as possible, that way I only need to have one set of spare stuff, and not 2. Being able to swap things like tires, by changing out the entire wheel because it's a LOT faster, and not have to worry, well gee, this one has a thicker brake rotor on it, Ill have to change that to something different, then change it back AGAIN when I put it back on this bike, makes life a lot easier. Not to mention having the bikes set up with the same stuff, they should behave a lot closer to each other, so changing from bike to bike is not as drastic of a style change as well. As things wear out on the bike over time, I'll be upgrading to the kit corsa stuff with the exception of the electronics of course because Ill still need the thing to be street legal.
Aaron
-
I assume you have seen it at every track day... the red flag.
EVERYONE who rides track with the goal of getting really fast, especially racing, will crash. That is not a failure, it is part of the process of learning limits of performance.
I am sure you recall Nick, at YCRS saying his techniques will help the racers reduce crashes by a few per year. Not eliminate, reduce.
You may want to pick up a Ninja 500 to push those limits and then practice at a slightly reduced effort on the race Energica.
I would.
Keep us posted on your progress. Amazing journey!
-
Pard, I would have to say, that is ONE advantage of running an E bike over an ICE. You can HEAR the tires gripping, there is no screaming engine to drown it out. You can hear them cupping on the track, you can hear them grabbing, sliding, galloping around a corner when you are a bit wobbly in the arms because it's the 19th minute of your session and you are TIRED! You can hear and feel when they are starting to slide a bit, and actually HEARING that AND feeling it, cements it into your mind what is going on, and helps you set your limits.
They say not to look at your speedometer. I am, I'll glance at it momentarily...I take a run at say 55, ok that is doable ... lets try next lap to see if it duplicates. yes, ok 55 is safe, let me run next shot at 60, ok that felt a little loose, lets try it again, just to make sure I didn't come in at a bad angle, ok that one was better. again., ok good, now lets push it to 65. ooh I felt something there and could hear the tires sliding, lets try that again a little more careful this time,ooh yah, that's getting a bit slippery, lets hold it here and experiment with approach angles, see if we can get a safer entry / exit layout on this corner... type thing. It also helps you learn what a certain speed feels like, so you can commit that to muscle memory. ok this is what 55 feels like in this part, eventually you won't have to look, you'll just know by experience, but while learning your outer limits, having some sort of gauge that does not scrape knees or set off airbags is a good thing ! :D
Aaron
-
Pard, As for getting a little ice bike to play around with.
I have seriously considered it, but am not sure what I want.
The ninja's are pretty decent bikes, but then again so are some of the yamaha's like they had at the riders school.
On one hand yes it'd be nice to practice on, for the basics? also so I can get my shifting down, that's a major issue for me right now, im still stewing over that heh, but on the other hand I want to get really good on the bike I'll be racing, concentrate my training there on the Energica, not so much other places. Coming into a corner on a 300 lb bike is a bit different then coming into it on a 600 lb bike. Then there's.... me....I really do NOT need another bike to dump 20 grand into, because if I DO get a little ICEr to play on, I know im going to have to trick it out, I won't be happy with just a stock little this or that, especially after the way an electric bike can spoil you with the instant torque and accel. I estimate a race day costs me about 500 dollars. Trying not to make it 800 or 900, otherwise I'll be spending the rest of my life roasting coffee to try to pay for it all :D
Seriously though, yes I am absolutely considering a little bike to ride on and hone new skills on but still way in left field on exactly what I want to get,there are just so damned many good ones out there now, and then there's the trap, well for only an extra grand, I can upgrade to this and that, well I just spent 7 grand on a bike, for another 1500 I can step up to THIS and really be in the game... well shit, im at 10 grand, so what's another 2 to hyper it and not have to worry about this and that. next thing you know.... there you are on a 20k bike. Im all too familar with rabbit holes. Just look at the electric one I fell into :D
Aaron
-
Yes, mission creep is a serious problem! I tend to upgrade everything on every bike as well.
But you will not regret getting the crashing done on anything other than the Energica.
-
So I was able to take the bike out again today for a track day.
The day started foggy as hell, and stayed mostly overcast with the sun only poking out after noon. This was really helpful in keeping the temps down in the suit as the temp hit about 83 degrees. NOT looking forward to mid may when it's 93 or more out and the sun is blazing.
I am getting a lot more confident in the bike and picking my speeds up quite a bit here, finally getting over my I guess you could call it, anxiety that the bike is going to go flying out from under me under extreme lean when I really lay into it. I am finally trusting that it's going to do it's thing as long as I do my thing properly. I had several folks telling me, oh this track is super grippy, even when it's misty out it's got a ton of grip so around turn 8 I decided, ok bitch, lets see how low I can go and just tried to lay that thing over, ended up scraping my knee dragger again but bike held fast, and was very stable even over at that angle. I am sure when I finally learn to get my technique down and ME leaning over more it'll be even better! Transitioning is real easy too, ahh.. easy in the way of, there is plenty of working room for you to slide over, you are not smashed down in a little seat or something, it's a wide open area to slide across, but still at almost 600 lbs, it's a bit of work after a while especially on the turns with the triple pow one immediately after the other left right left.
I am getting a LOT better using the regen and trail braking instead of using the front brakes so much. I am finding that I like it a LOT better, have much more control over the bike and I can come into turn 1 at about 75 ish MPH now vs maybe 60 because I was too busy trying to get the bike flopped over after a hard braking to get down from 135 ish mph. I am able to decelerate into it at a good lean already, instead of having to slow down THEN really start the lean. The throttle is so responsive and learning to feather it, between the trail braking and tapping to get around corners, I am finding that I need to hone my skills judging a corner, as some of them I am seeing I am coming in a bit SLOW on them, and getting close to the inner edge. Im working on the idea of it's sometimes better to come in perhaps a little bit fast, because I KNOW I got more lean angle to work with the regen WILL pull me down 5 mph or so pretty fast if needed, and I can stand off and lay the bike over to keep the corner better than having to pick up speed or correct my intended path angle because im getting too close to the inner edge.
I really love the regen, it is so much more helpful going around corners, I am finding that I can regen into a turn and once I am confident that I have the control I want IN the corner, I can actually start accelerating THRU the turn, even coming up to the apex of it and once I am pointing about where I need to be, really open up the throttle. Im talking here for those long loping turns, not the ones where you dive in tap the apex and right back out but are hugging a long curve.
Right now my biggest issue is ME, (like it ever IS actually the bike :D ) and getting leaned over and hanging OFF the bike enough around corners. The tires are definitely being used to the sidewalls, there really is no more room on them, I just need to get myself off the bike more. I had a few folks running behind me giving me pointers, (AbsolUTELY appreciated!!) he's been racing for years and he's telling me, you got the lean down pat, you are on track you just need to get off the bike more, it'll give you more speed and that I really need to get tank grips on the bike it'll help a ton with the control AND getting off the bike when you have something to grab onto and not sliding around.
With speeds ranging from oh, say 145 ish high end to 60 ish, low end averages, I am averaging about 1 percent battery drain per mile a little bit more later on as I got my speeds up overall but as a general, 1 percent / mile is a good figure. Today there were not a lot of folks at the track so they ran us in 2 groups instead of the normal 3 so we had half hour sessions. That shit wears you out in about 20 minutes let me tell you !! I was averaging about 30 - 32, one shot almost 40 miles per session being put on the bike.
I initially wanted to test a theory that, with a normal 20 minute session, I can use the normal AC Level 2 charging at 15 amps to keep the battery up between sessions, but with us running extended sessions, more run time also equals less charge time, that went out the window and I stayed with the fast charger. I found that the sweet spot was about 35 amps up until about 85 percent then take it down to 30 so it don't trip the breaker, and eventually figured that I could leave it at 30 the whole time and not fiddle dick with it. I was running charge up to about 92 to 94 percent and stopping there as A:it's really slowing down up there and more balaning, and B: want to make sure I got room FOR the regen to work so leave some room up top.
Running a lower charge rate also helped the battery temps too, but TBH I never got more than midway on the temperature graph, and I think the hottest I ever had the motor was up to like 150 degrees ish, (it may have been more, I was looking after I got on the paddock, NOT while racing for obvious reasons) so it had time to cool off. With the liquid cooling, that thing is NOT going to get hot on you.,
One thing I AM noticing though is, the EGO is black, on black, on black. When running, the fairings are great I am sure for getting the air thru where it needs to be, but when sitting there stewing in the sun, charging, is NOT helping keep things cool, it then traps the heat around the battery. I was thinking of getting a little fan and putting it on front of the radiator or something that I can blow air thru during charging sessions. LOOKS are a lot too, so I don't want a big honking fan on it and having people go, oh what? it can't keep cool? While back to back to back hump it hard, charge it hump it hard the battery NEVER got in the yellow on me, I am sure when the year progresses and the outside temps are 90 plus degrees and the sun is just blasting down on you, that'll all change. Putting a roof over my head will work as well with one of those little tent thingies.
As far as actual battery performance, of course topped off it's going to give you max wham for your buck, but even down to say around 60 percent, yah you may be a small little bit slower on the accel, it's NOT huge like the street bike's can be, the battery has plenty of power to give you that stupid acceleration you need to shut the ICEholes up on the straightaways. TBH I really didn't notice any real performance drag until the battery got below 50 percent, and it really took it to go down to about 40 before you really could start noticing that the top end was a bit slower getting up there. As a side note, once you DO go below 50 percent battery, it really starts to suck them down then, and while I was not paying attention when I was looking at that, I am sure that in that range, that hard suck was really pushing your temps up faster too.
One oddity though, at least on the race bike setup, the battery starts Balancing at around 80 percent, or at least, that's what the screen says but it's still sucking the full charge current, so not sure what that is all about. On that, I might have to experiment at a later date but, you got full current up to about 93 percent or so, but then again, I was only asking for 30 to 35 amps, maybe if I was asking for 60 it'd be curtailing more, Ill have to see and report back.
The only drawback, and really it's just me, is the bike has a very aggressive race stance, and standing there, all hunched over, waiting for the shift over between groups, for 5 minutes hunched over, is hard on the back. When i am running the Ribelle, it's a nice upright stance. On that though, my tires are a bit on the big side yet for me. I have that triple S going on here. (Short Shit Syndrome), so maybe if I dropped down a size, maybe instead of running a 200, dropping to a 190 that extra half inch or whatever it gives might make slow handling / standing a lot easier. I may play with tire sizes too, just to see HOW they affect the handling of the bike and all. TO be honest though, I am going to have to really be a lot better than I currently am skill wise before i do that, so Im actually able to SEE genuinely, what that difference might be.
The bike came with an optical chrono on it, that I had on ONCE, but for the life of me, I can not figure out how to get that bitch activated again. I don't think I really need it though, as the track suit data is providing me with so much more data than I bet that chrono ever could hope to.
For those who are considering a racing suit, Id recommend the Dainese, as the data the thing collects on the Airbag unit is insane, and a stupidly powerful analytical tool for you. The program is free to download and analyze /graph the data but it's a steep learning curve that's for sure! Another nice thing I figured out is, although the use applications for the data is not quite as good on an open track, as it is with a closed track mode, if you have a regular street airbag, leather jacket, you CAN download the data off that too and analyze it. You do need to be aware though, that the suit samples 1000 x a second so be prepared for quite a lengthy data download time over USB.
Well, let me get some pictures up here and can't wait for the next time.
If anyone has any questions or 'stuff' they want me to test out and report back, please let me know and Ill try to get you some answers next track day, which looks like it might be this weekend !!!
Aaron
-
and another stand alone
-
charging
-
yes it tears up tires!
-
There’s something wrong with your tyres mate, the edges shouldn’t get chewed up like that. Mine are nice and clean, even after dozens of laps. 😂
-
No chicken on them there strips!
Nice riding!
-
Im told that if I flip the tires I should get an extra day out of them, because Jennings is such a left handed track, that it wears that side out so much faster. Im going to give it a try, at $400 a set it's definitely worth a try. So, how exactly Do you turn a tire inside out? :D Just kidding.
Trying to think of things to do with the old tires. Maybe drill some holes in them, fill the inside with dirt and plant strawberries in them. I can sell them to the tree huggers as Strawberry Circles. Actually, if I stand 3 or 4 of them up, and make a den out of them, throw in some straw, I can get the chickens to nest in them, that way I won't spend 20 minutes searching the yard to find where the little b4354es hid the eggs at this time.
I know on some highways, they mixed ground up rubber with the pavement and laid it down. I wonder how that worked out? Imagine if they could grind up old bike tires, and mix with the pavement and lay it down for a bike track. I wonder how THAT would work out? I bet you they would be REAL grippy! I need to win a big lottery so I can buy a racetrack, or 200 acres and build my own and try it out!
Tank grips. Any suggestions or are they all pretty much alike, besides for personal looks / preferences?
Aaron
-
I know on some highways, they mixed ground up rubber with the pavement and laid it down. I wonder how that worked out?
Be still my beating heart, you know about recycled rubber binder pavements?
They’re marginally more difficult to get right (industry is still learning) and while initial costs are slightly higher, they have much better service life than traditional mixes. Vastly better grip, quieter, better frost resistance and less surface water retention.
-
I know on some highways, they mixed ground up rubber with the pavement and laid it down. I wonder how that worked out?
Be still my beating heart, you know about recycled rubber binder pavements?
They’re marginally more difficult to get right (industry is still learning) and while initial costs are slightly higher, they have much better service life than traditional mixes. Vastly better grip, quieter, better frost resistance and less surface water retention.
So it sounds to me like they'd be ideal for a bike race track then. The service life I'd think would be even more on a bike track, while yes the bike is tearing it up on the track, it's also much lighter than a truck as far as that wear goes. Frost resistance, might not have to worry about that TOO much in the south, but the water retention, that is another huge plus, especially for the morning runs when the track may not be quite as hot yet as many would like to think it is. (Why is it always the EXPERT group, in the first lap or two, that gets the first red flag of the day :P ) hehe. The better grip, that goes without saying.
While I am not sure, I want to say, haven't these been around for oh god 20 or more years now? Hopefully they are about there with the tech by now. With all the grief you hear about how to get rid of old tires, this would be a perfect way IMO, instead of mountains of mosquito breeders piled up, waiting for a lightning strike to burn for a month and a half.
How are they on your tires? If they wore out tires less, that'd be another huge plus on the track, well, at least from the racers perspective. The tire guy, maybe not so much.
Well that does it then, I am going to have to play a powerball ticket this week so I can win the 1 billion dollar prize, and we can make this rubber track race way a reality! Florida can always use another race track open to the general public to use, just too bad it would probably have to shut down half the season due to heat, UNLESS, I put lights on it, so we can race at night when it's cooler. With 1B to spend, that is a drop in the bucket. Throw some solar panels on it and get the government to pay for 30 percent of it HAH !! Oh we're doing this now... :P
Aaron
-
I haven't seen any studies about traffic tyre wear, but I imagine it would be unchanged as the aggregate is what causes tyre wear.
While your bikes and race cars are much lighter, so don't make compressive wear on the surface, the lateral forces are much higher and this rips the aggregate out of the binder which I believes wears faster than a standard light traffic pavement.
Yes, they have been out for more than 20 years, but we wouldn't have had more than a handful of council and main road departments wholesale adopt them. Also have you met anyone in civil construction? Its not exactly the fastest moving industry, and processes take time to come into practice.
Have you ever been to a drag track? They literally are covered in glue (resin), it'll rip shoes off. Probably skin too, but I didn't want that stuff on me.
-
I have not been to a drag track yet, I wish there was one by me TBH, and not one of these 1/8th mile wanna bee tracks either.
I have umm, there are some very long side roads / access roads, onramps type things one could theoretically get on and let it rip. the resin umm no I would NOT want to get that on my skin. Civil service,ahh yes, I worked a CS job for 19 years at the power plant, so trust me, I know how slow government works, especially union jobs.
The glue, oh man, we had some double sided stupid crazy glue sticky tape for the turbines, some sort of repair shit for the heat proofing panels. Anyways long story short, one of the guys had a piece in his hand, pulled the one side off, and for some reason went to smell it. Well someone else of course smacked his hand and plastered it to his face and it was NOT letting loose. He ended up with a very painful Brazilian to his face removing hair along with a layer or two of skin along with it from that! We were laughing so hard and he was so PISSED, but what could you do? Acetone, on your face? umm no thanks. Hospital, and get in trouble for horseplay at work, umm NO... suck it up buttercup it was !!!
So there is actually resin on the drag strip and that's not just rubber that'd been laid down over the years?
Aaron
-
Yep, they spray it regularly. They also have regularly scrape off the rubber because it’s too slippery.
The trick with glue on skin, just wait, your own oils and sweat will get it off. If you’re in a hurry, add some good ol vasoline.
You should hit up a drag strip sometime,m, hell, an esseesse (non rs version!) won what I believe was a national 1/4 mile drag in street bike class.
-
Ill have to look and see what dragstrips are around here.
The Ribelle I pop a wheelie on so have the traction control trying to tame that. the ego, because it's a much more forward stance I don't really do that so I bet I could really light up a drag strip with it.
Aaron
-
Hmm, well well... seems I found another rabbit hole to fall down into. Gainesville seems like it might be a decent track and they have bikes there too it appears.
I am sure i'll need some kind of license to get into that, so will have to work on obtaining that first, of course before any of the racing starts. My plan here is actually, get my act together this year, my trailer and supporting stuff all pretty much in place, then next year 2025 launch (hopefully) any racing / fun tours I may decide to get into.
Given there's not a ton one can do with an electric bike, as far as performance enhancement, besides maybe sprocket ratios and tire sizes, it will be fun to see what I can manage to squeeze out of one of these buggers. The only downside is, one of the brackets I see is only for street legal bikes. That leaves the EGO out, unless I do a quick patch kit to it to make it look 'street legal' at least for track purposes... and the Ribelle being capped at a buck 25, well that sucks for a dragstrip. Hmm, interesting times ahead I predict ! ;D I may have to carefully word a question when I ask them to 'define' street legal.
Aaron
-
Back out at Jennings today, they had a running in reverse day today and hmm, that was an experience.
it's hard to 'forget' a track or pretend you don't remember parts of it, especially when they are backwards.
Coming out of a turn, into a tightening circle is a whole new beast as well, as compared to the normal run on the track. the apex's are all opposite and while it's fun, it's also something you better be VERY careful at the first times thru.
My first few laps were sanity laps I call them, especially on a new track. Take everything real slow and get a feel for it. Even if Ive been on the track 100 times, every new session, the first lap, i'll take it a bit easy, get a new feel for everything as it is NOT the same as an hour ago and most importantly, make sure I am back into the groove and 'feeling the bike' the same as well. There are turns where you have a lot of leeway to correct a mistake, and then there are turns where you'll get grassed real fast if you don't come in just right. The lenient ones are good for testing the latest waters.
The good thing about going in reverse, I didn't have to spend the 20 bucks to have the tires flipped to wear out the other side before replacing it :)
I found that once I got my comfort / confidence level up where it needed to be, after a session, and got into my groove, the bike was handling the really stupid tight turns very well, even when I was off my mark a bit and had to really turn INTO it to get back where I should be, it handled the decreasing radius really well and let me really get bent over to handle the tighter feeling turns. I was worried that in the really tightening turns that I was going to really have to slow down bad to handle it, but the bike let me really lean into it very stable and keep the speed at a respectable level. It's kind of funny how turns that are a bit challenging going lefty loosey are now eazey peazy going righty tighty.
Being Florida though, yep there was rain in the forecast and it did find us. It started as a slight drizzle that turned into a pretty shitty shower pretty fast. That is typical though, it can be sunny on turn 1 and a tornado on turn 4, welcome to Florida. While nobody was really going stupid fast,we all were making our ways to the pit, and in the middle of the final turn, THIS is where I found the slick spot on the track.
The front tire slid then hopped back up, slid / jumped again hopped back up, by this time it's got my FULL ATTENTION and im letting off the throttle and readjusting to try to get the seat out that I just sucked up my a hole. it slid a little bit a third time then everything straightened out and i was good thru the rest of the turn. Not entirely sure what saved me here, it certainly is not my skill !! By all rights, I believe I probably should have highsided here or at least a nasty spinout, but the shocks / tires were able to save me. The race bike really does not have traction control, however it does have ABS and easing off the throttle probably did kick in regen which would put that into play a bit as well. I can think back on it now but all in all it probably took a second at most to all occur. So while I can sit here and armchair quarterback everything I did, in the moment ..you don't have that privelige.
Another thing that is kind of neat, I can download the data off my airbag suit and slide right into the event and see everything that happened down to like a few milliseconds. While I do not know the software nearly as good as Id like to, yes it does have a pretty in depth instruction manual, for me at least, it's still a pretty steep learning curve. I am sure once I DO get better with it, there are plenty of teachable moments that i'll be able to see there :)
In closing, had another fun day here, learning new stuff every time I take the bike out and loving it better and better each track day !!
One thing I am probably going to try is Im running 200 tires on back and am on the balls of my feet / tip toes with the bike. I am probably going to try a 190 which I am thinking is going to put me flatfooted like on the Ribelle with 190s and hopefully it won't kill my feet / ankles so bad when im standing still waiting to be let loose on the track. I don't anticipate the handling to be HUGELY different, except maybe a bit tighter on the turns maybe? Im at the edge of my tires now so hope i won't slide out taking the same turns the same way with a smaller tire. May need to adjust my turn in spots a bit with a tighter turning tire but we'll see!
What I need to do next is work on my body positioning more. I know that is a major issue currently is getting slid over / my ass OFF the bike and hanging over in the turns. My creaky old ass with the half stainless steel spine don't move as fast as I wish I could ...especially after a full morning of humping a 600 lb bike back and forth, it tends to get a bit sore 8)
Take care everyone.
Aaron
-
^^^ Bravo! Thanks for sharing! Add some video when able.
-
Pard, I think I am going to go with the 360 camera you mentioned in another thread somewhere.
This ram mount X mount I am NOT impressed with. 2 times now that sob let my phone fly when hitting a pothole, and coupled with what I am hearing are issues with the Hero camera's I think that might be a better way to go.
Now to figure out exactly where I want to mount it at. Behind the windshield maybe and with what kind of mount that will HOLD it there, and my phone too on the Ribelle.
Aaron
-
Let me add one quick note.
I CAN confirm that a standard charger 15 amp, 240 volt CAN pretty much keep up with a normal track day's rompings. The 40 minutes you have off is enough to keep the bike charged up to run. I was going to about 92 percent capacity per charge. I wanted a little room on the top end so that my regen was working nice and strong. I use it a lot when running and don't want to be playing around with it at reduced ability given that's how I normally run and don't want to be changing inputs I don't need to.
Also, as anyone who has used it can attest, CCS can be a pain in the ass sometimes, especially when playing with cables that can handle 100 amps, ie HEAVY and BULKY. it don't always want to start first run because you didn't have it plugged in juuuuust right or whatever, and if you time out on some sorts of errors, you have to cycle bike power to get it to reset right / reset the charger right to try a new session. Using AC to charge makes all that crap go away. Plug and Play Baby!
Aaron
-
Racing again today, will probably spend the entire weekend up there. Im dead, don't want to see how I feel after 4 days of racing in a row, ugh.
Getting my speeds up quite nicely now, and getting a lot of my issues stomped out here. A lot of folks are just super helpful giving me all kinds of advice, showing me how to do better, etc. Also helping me get the suspension dialed in just perfectly too. Having some minor issues on some hard turns and thinking it's the rebound, but we are on it!
I think I need to change my name to Bug Magnet because I swear those fkn big fat grasshoppers just hover and wait for me to come by to splat on the face shield. Then that shit dries on and just ick. the turtles / snakes and alligators crossing the track are a ton of fun too. The turtles, every lapf or about 4 laps,they are a little further along until they finally clear, or someone nips one and turns it into a gamera clone and sends it spinning off at warp 8.
The bike, not sure but it's almost like the accel is dampened a bit at the low end, which I could see, you don't want to be hitting the throttle and be in a constant wheelie if you are trying to race or run the track, its like once you break 100 mph the bike is like, "Oh so the little boy wants to go fast? well HOLD ON !!! and really kicks up the acceleration, problem is, by that by the time you are up that fast, you are running out of runway fast to be going that fast,so it's probably best that it does not accellerate faster, id probably be tempted to try it and end up in a pickle. Don't get me wrong, it still takes off like a scalded cat, but just seems like once you hit 100 to 105 it goes into like turbo mode.
My fastest speed was 132 on the back end, and I think I need to call that a plateau for now until I get some more technique down, because doing that run I was very close to the outer edge of my skill set and starting to need a bit more braking than I really like to use. I was able to hone it down a bit but at those speeds, timing becomes a LOT more important, and far less room to fix up a F up. A slight change in the apex approach in 2 I think will help a bit and hitting the regen a bit earlier and getting into the lean a bit faster to enter 3 - 4 - 5 will definitely help shed the speed too and not need to rely on harder braking. It's just so amazing how you can fix one problem and it turns into something else a bit down the track, or you find that a fix is 3 turns prior to an issue! I think I am going to be using tire warmers too, even the ones that say you don't need them, after several cycles, they don't grip that good anymore.
Another thing that is kind of crazy when you think on it is, I have only been to the track now with this bike, oh geez. 5 times? and I already got 300 miles on it just track running. Then you look at the tires, a set of street tires will last you 10k miles or more normal riding, track tires, 300 and they are dead! hell they were pretty shot early to mid 200's It sure is a lot of fun but man you can burn up money almost as fast as you can burn up tires if you are not careful!
Aaron
-
and at the track again today. Yep, I got the sickness :D
Set some new personal records today, really getting to be one with the bike, feeling stuff I didn't really before and a lot more confident. This is something I need to be careful about. Came out of turn 2 accelerating and hit the throttle a bit harder than I should have and brought the front end up in a lean angle, was heading for 3 digits, luckily I was not near the seam in the pavement so just skittered a little and got my attention on that one. A few times was coming around corners perhaps a bit too fast and wayyy leaned over and felt the tire slide a little bit, but luckily just a little off the throttle and im back on good ground. I have a different tire in front since the one I wanted was not in stock, the Continental Road Attack 2, I got a medium up front and it's a bit finicky until you get it good and warmed up. I better start running tire warmers, even though you supposedly don't have to. Actually I need to get the tire that works better is the smart move, WHEN they are back in stock, in 6 to 8 weeks I am told :(
Stupid ? I have the Alpine Star full ankle / calf boots for the track. Ill have to look at what one it is, its upstairs in the fan now drying out. Anyways, the toe sliders... are those replacable? Mine is taking a beating. I am trying but I don't get out of the seat very good, my leg just does not go out very far, I got my ass off the seat and am pulling the bike over but the leg is not pointing out too much, it just don't move that way very well. Because of this, my lean angle is all the way,basically, and instead of grinding my knee on the pavement, im tapping the toe of my boot around the really sharp turns. YES I do have them all the way back on the pegs, ive been paying close attention to that, as it's a bit distracting when it does happen. Im just bringing the bike down that low.
With this being said it looks like I am going to be tearing up toe draggers instead of knee draggers until I figure something out here. Is this something that is replaceable on a boot, or do they make a boot where it is replaceable? Tires are expensive enough I really don't want to go thru a few boots a season as well.
Aaron
-
The guys at the track will give you some ideas, but if you cannot reposition your foot to avoid scraping toe, you may consider raising the pegs. They sell offset adapters so you can just raise the pegs without putting on new rearsets.
something along these lines: https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/puig-relocation-brackets-for-adjustable-footpegs?srsltid=AfmBOopjDxUu5yFb-VEWLq6o5dTlORbSKW89TstxX7WY62YxrPv1F_5KQBc&sku_id=10037615
Dragging toe is bad, it can cause your foot to get pulled off the peg. Address that issue ASAP.
Enjoying your posts. Keep em coming!
-
With this being said it looks like I am going to be tearing up toe draggers instead of knee draggers until I figure something out here. Is this something that is replaceable on a boot, or do they make a boot where it is replaceable? Tires are expensive enough I really don't want to go thru a few boots a season as well.
Someone said to me that racing is one of the most effective ways to burn money ;D
I guess for all Alpinestars boots are toe sliders available for replacement. I know for sure for SMX5 and SMX6 at least.
BTW Dainese have screw-ons, plastic and for some boots even metallic.
-
With this being said it looks like I am going to be tearing up toe draggers instead of knee draggers until I figure something out here. Is this something that is replaceable on a boot, or do they make a boot where it is replaceable? Tires are expensive enough I really don't want to go thru a few boots a season as well.
Someone said to me that racing is one of the most effective ways to burn money ;D
I guess for all Alpinestars boots are toe sliders available for replacement. I know for sure for SMX5 and SMX6 at least.
BTW Dainese have screw-ons, plastic and for some boots even metallic.
I think that owning a boat or private airplane could be an even more effective way to burn money than racing.
-
Richard, I DO have a boat. Not quite as bad, but yah it can get there. I would say not quite as fast as racing can but it can sure try !
Toys, yah both hobbies have their burn pits, but luckily for my fishing, I have a commercial license, so can sell some of the fish I catch and get some money back that. Bike, not so much.
Both have consumables -
Boat - Bait, Beer, lets say 50 bucks a shot. then there's gas. Off shore, a LOT expensive, puttin around the river, creek crawling, not so bad
Bike - Tires, Track Fees - 250 ish a shot, then there may be gas. Puttin around town, not as bad, track, can be VERY bad.
Rods, Reels, Hooks, Safety etc - mandatory gear, reusable, does not count just as Gloves, Helmet, Boots don't really count, reusable
Now if I could figure out a way to use the boat to take the bike places to ride at.......
Aaron
-
So, ran monday too, 4 days in a row, wow, that's a lot of work. My body is letting me know this!! FK it, I don't plan to die young or healthy.
I got moved up into Intermediate, and man what a difference.
I used to hear people say, when you ride with faster people YOU ride faster and better. I used to think that was mostly in YOUR brain, that the desire to go fast is there already, it's YOU holding it back.
Yah, I sure got a reality check there.
No.... riding in the faster group DOES make you a faster rider. Main take away, NOT having to worry about what the clown in front of you is going to do is a MAJOR plan improver.
Ok, so Im riding with someone, is he better than I am, well lets see. If I keep up with him, awesome, lets see if I can KEEP keeping up.
Ok, so Im riding with someone, is he better than I am, well big YES. As he pulls away I can SEE why and try to be more like him.
Ok, so Im riding with someone, is he better than I am, NO, ok, so I pass him at the next opportunity.
That last one is the key.
NOT having to worry about what he is going to do is huge on me being able to concentrate on what I want / need to do.
Ok, I need to pass him, ..... and here it is.....
With him, being in Intermediate, I KNOW, that he KNOWS NOT to do stupid shit. (In theory) I KNOW that if I go wide, or go inside that I can get around him, and he'll continue safely, I can continue safely.
NOT having to worry about what the guy in front of you is going to do, lets me work on and hone what I need to do. I don't have to wait and see what he's setting up to to, he's predictable, I already should know, and have my plan for ME to continue.
Im going to pass him in turn 8.
Novice - Ok Ill wait until we get into it, so I can see what track he is going to take, how he's going to hit 8 and then make my move.
Intermediate- Ok Ill go a bit wide pass him and since 8 is wide, ill pop a bit late into 9 so I can shoot right to the setup on 10. Because I already KNOW he's going to take 8 off the arrow and narrow.
Only having to worry about what YOU are going to do, and not having to worry about the guy in front of you, is a game changer.
So I am increasing my speeds, now I have to do things differently.
Well that flip flop in 3/4/5, I really can straight shoot that if I watch my line carefully. But I was using that lean to bleed speed, ok so need more brake now, brakes are VERY powerful on this bike, just touch them Aaron,.. so getting the finesse down to feather the brake .vs. throttle input, to pull it back into 5. Push forward to 13, ok inner wall is no longer working, you really need to FULL arrow and shoot for apex, find the proper braking point and do it, watch the lean into 14 and don't over slow. This is another kind of blind corner, so need to trust your skills as you run into final turn, you won't see the washboard right away, shave inner edge and you'll be lined up for a nice finishing lean to get bike straightened back up to hammer it in the straight away.
Basically you don't fix problems, you only push them down 50 yards or so. Once you got a lap running smooth, you bump your speed a bit, then new issues arise, and wash rinse repeat, fix them /push them down the track, get lap tidied up, bump speed and do it all over again.
Interestingly enough, I approached today with the goal of, ok im not going to worry about my speed, lets use today to hone my body position skills and movement... once I get that, the speed should kind of happen on its own. It is BUT.. and here they are again... the buts. im finding one of the problems WITH my body position and movement is my leathers are a bit squeaky across my seat, they grab a bit. Now this I am sure is a good thing when normal riding, but when trying to do a fast side to side, is an issue, it upsets the bike a bit when I transition so Ill need to figure how to do that with a bit more finesse. Maybe if I pull my head out of my ass, it'll slide easier because it won't be so bumpy 8)
We shall see.
Aaron
PS with a flip, I can get 4 days out of a set of tires, so tires are a hundred bucks a day... ehh not too shabby no???
-
When I used to ride track, one of the promoters said the Intermediate (B) group is where all the carnage happens. About 1 in 14 riders will crash on any given track day. I did a total of 28 track days, and crashed... twice, so he was spot on!
It's good you're feeling the rear wheel begin to slide. I didn't seem to have that skill, or my bike with excessively large Brembos may have interfered, because twice I slid out the rear wheel. One of those times totaled my bike and broke a collar bone. It was fun while it lasted.
A guy at work would take his Tesla to track days. The limiting factor was always the motor or battery overheating. The car would throttle itself down after only a couple of laps. That was 10 years ago though, so maybe the cooling is improved by now.
-
On the wrecks, yah, I see that, novice it's mostly run offs, often followed by a tip over.
intermediate, not too many, that I have seen so far, some run offs, one read bad one, ended with a life flight, he hit someone.
it seems it's the experts who bring on the first wreck of the day, in the first two laps of the day, its like they forgot their tires are cold and/or the track is cold it's MORNING. They may have tire warmers on but the track does NOT, it's cold, it's damp, YOU are starting a brand new day, adrenaline is all drained out, coffee still kicking in, stiff from day before etc, take a sanity lap first before slamming it... just my thoughts on it.
Intermediate a lot complain about, it's a thunderdome, and yes I can see that, they are being assholes, but at least, more predictable assholes, ok he cut me short, BUT he stayed on line and took off, that is easier to deal with over the novice he passed me got right in front of me, got into the turn then grabbed a handfull of brakes as soon as he got in front of me. THAT is dangerous, especially when they want to play that when there are 3 or 4 grouped up. Next thing you know people are crossing back and forth all over the place, and im trying to fall back a bit and let the mess sort itself out and try to not run straight into it. That's about the time ill pit in for a 20 second breather, let the gang get way ahead of me and go out again.
That's probably an accurate number on overall crashes. Sooner or later it will come. So far Ive been lucky, but unfortunately I know that my day is ahead of me, one of them... and hopefully I have the skill to minimize the damage as much as I can. So you lowsided, well it's a hell of a lot better than a highside I guess. Id rather slide out then be thrown over the bike any day, if I absolutely must leave the bike against my will :P
Jennings is also an incredibly grippy track too, so you probably get a bit more warning that you are pushing it too hard, than you may get at other tracks and have that point or two of lean - leniency before you start to waltz.
I was having issues with my front tire getting squirrely on me, and not sure if it was self induced due to 'thinking on it' too much, or just the tire was cycled too much and not gripping as good as it could. I started out with a harder tire to begin with because the Conty Street Attack was not available in my front wheel size and I had to settle for a medium up there.
The times I was slipping a bit in the rear, there also could have been a bit of an acceleration issue as well. giving it a bit too much gas on the maintenance, straighten up. Also if you are deep into a turn and feeling that you need a bit more throttle to keep stable, you may have overslowed a bit, and the front wheel is wanting to dive a bit, that right there can cause a bit of a bump in the throttle, which could give you a whuuurp on the back wheel.
One of my main issues in this entire chat here is I need tank grips period. That will help me a ton, that EGO is a slippery bitch, and it's large too, so I am using significant handlebar to stay on the bike and it's not helping my riding at all. I can't really grab very well with my legs to hold on / maneuver the bike, so any grip on the handles can easily be turned into an input.
I am also realizing now that I am at faster speeds overall, yah, I DO Need tire warmers. They will just make a life a lot easier, not having to take a warmup lap or two. Yes certain tires you can get away with not having them, but you STILL .. do better / more consistent when you do warm them up, so just keep them warm!
I tell you what though, 4 days in a row, FULL days... man I am not doing that again, I can't. Right now I can not sleep because I inflamed something in my neck / spine / shoulders i don't know where but I am waking up with my hands literally on fire, it will come in waves and feels like I am holding a burning coal in the palm, and getting stung by a huge ass hornet on the back of my hand. my two middle fingers are stone ass asleep, thumb kind of, and it's running up the inner side of my arm a bit. Unlike a normal you slept on your arm, where I get up, walk around for a minute or two moving my arm and it goes away, this one can last a half hour or more and start throbbing coming in waves. It's getting slightly better after 2 days but yah, I can't be doing that. Already have nerve issues and shit, don't need to be causing this kind of grief. As I type this, my inner fingers are still somewhat numb, Ive been up an hour already, yah I inflamed something alright.
Problem with nerve damage / pain is, pills don't work. The arthritis, swollen, hurtful, no porblem, I got some wonderful pills for that, this stuff, nothing really helps. Gaba does not really do much either... time, rest, whimper and hope it goes away and I don't end up with more lumbar / cervical shots. Getting old sucks but you know what, I gotta have some fun, just maybe not so much in fun a row :D
Aaron
-
novice it's mostly run offs, often followed by a tip over.
intermediate, not too many,
My observations match what Curt has heard, the novices might have dumb offs, or minor lower speed contact, but all the really big crashes especially caused by dick measuring happen in the intermediate group. My theory is that their confience doesn't quite match their skill. Novices aren't confident, and experts usually have the skill.
Id rather slide out then be thrown over the bike any day, if I absolutely must leave the bike against my will :P
Nice line
I tell you what though, 4 days in a row, FULL days... man I am not doing that again, I can't. Right now I can not sleep because I inflamed something in my neck / spine / shoulders i don't know where but I am waking up with my hands literally on fire, it will come in waves and feels like I am holding a burning coal in the palm, and getting stung by a huge ass hornet on the back of my hand. my two middle fingers are stone ass asleep, thumb kind of, and it's running up the inner side of my arm a bit. Unlike a normal you slept on your arm, where I get up, walk around for a minute or two moving my arm and it goes away, this one can last a half hour or more and start throbbing coming in waves. It's getting slightly better after 2 days but yah, I can't be doing that. Already have nerve issues and shit, don't need to be causing this kind of grief. As I type this, my inner fingers are still somewhat numb, Ive been up an hour already, yah I inflamed something alright
Dude, you're just getting old, I've heard it happens. Do not sit around feeling sorry for yourself, you need to keep moving around/gentle exercise. Ice packs (20mins max) and compression wraps on any particulaly sore spots help. I've a friend that does all the recovery work with the state fire service (average age of firefighters in aus is surprsingly high) and she treats injuries from when these guys push themselves too hard, similar to a weekend of trackwork! Remedial massage for the muscle injuries, short term heat/cold treatment, longer term ice joint injuries, light exercise and they bounce right back to do it all again...
-
I've heard others say that a lot of the Intermediate issues tend to be from the ends of the group. The Upper ones thinking they are experts, and will go faster to prove it to you! and the ones just in there, shell shocked by how fast they really ARE in there, and the speed differentials are what causes a lot of the contact wrecks. Ive seen some good ones in the blend area. It's like bro, you SEE him coming on, you KNOW he's going slower than you, you couldn't move over just a bit? Novices aren't that confident UNTIL... they want to be moved up to intermediate, then will go fast to show you they belong up there. I think another issue with the new I's is they can now pass in more places, and don't have those skills honed yet... and couldn't really practice them in the Novice group either because inside passing and in certain turns is not allowed.
I get the dick measuring thing but Id rather do that in the privacy of my own home, NOT in the ER as the doc is trying to figure out which size staple to use to re attach it!
Not feeling sorry for myself really, am moving around, out in the yard, doing all the work that did NOT get done last weekend :( , that's the only thing that really helps is keep stuff moving as you said. If you sit around and do nothing, it just stiffens and thats really way worse. I do know I tore something up though, this isn't just getting old aches and pains, so do need to be more careful next time. Or maybe instead of 4 days in a row, only do 3.
I did find out something by mistake, well, maybe should say, tested something someone said a bit back. Bee Venom can help with cramps and stiffness and possibly nerve issues. Was moving supers and got snagged on one and tore a glove. This hive was not happy with me to begin with because I dropped the top of the honey super down on them to begin with, so, wasted no time in finding that tear in my glove :D got popped about 4 times in the hand. It swole up a bit, it generally does after a few hours when I get lit up, but the pain lessened quite a bit in the hand / wrist afterwards. I really do not like getting stung, but it did help. If my hands are still burning tomorrow, I may try a few stings on the other hand to see if this is repeatable. I still got half my hives to tend to. Normally do them all at once per session but man it got hot out quick and I was sweating my ass off so had to call it early. My only concern is, what if this DOES work and im on to something. HTF do you administer bee stings? Just sounds Darwinish to me. Then again, so does injecting botulism into your face to look younger but people do it all the time.
Another interesting thing, riding my street bike, feels all different now. Been on the track for 4 days, and finding myself with my feet all crunched in on the street bike, feeling the framework move and stuff against my foot when I hit bumps and such. Just a different feeling. All crunched on the gas tank area now track like instead of more relaxed like normal street. Also the brakes, the race bike is very sensitive, you GENTLY bring in and bring out the brakes, they are very powerful. Street bike needs a bit more. it's like ooh? where'd my brakes go, oh wait, not the same bike!
Eventually though I am going to change stuff over on the Ribelle to make it more like the EGO so these differences are not so much, and to keep my spare parts pile down a bit. I'll put the bigger brakes on the Ribelle as an example, so that way my tires / wheels are completely interchangeable between the bikes. tires that are getting too worn for the track, I may be able to use on the street bike for a bit (not slicks of course but the DOT's), and when I DO do tire swaps, it's just swap the wheels, the tires are already mounted, this will save some time possibly when actively running especially when there is a line at the tire shop, you can leave them there for a session or two even, and not miss any race time. But for now, my next purchase is tank grips. Will browse and see what's out there that looks decent on the Energica's.
Aaron
-
I hit the track again today, been fairly often here and doing a 3 day'er since this will be the last for the season here at Jennings, they close until about september for the heat.
Today was a private day, the guy rents out the track and lets 15 of us in on it, it's an open track, we come and go as we please.
Basic rules are
1. BE CIVIL to each other, it's a track day not thunderdome
2. Have a goal, work on something, you want to work on better times on turn 1 work it, etc even if your goal is just to have fun, have fun.
3. MIND your track time, don't overdo it, don't get hazy brain and end up in the grass because you ran for 40 minutes straight.
So I put the EGO to max power level to play. Yah, I need to be careful. Im working on my suspension, getting everything tweaked in and running the bike since I am getting quite a bit better with it,with all the riding Ive been doing. My lap times are occasionally in the 1.30's now and my speeds are up in the 130's too occasionally on the back end.
Well, it turns out that most the people there, are no strangers to a track, and pretty much every one of them have not seen an electric bike before, so unknown to me, until about lunch, I had quite an audience and a 'following'. Pretty much everyone there had something to say about how the bike performed, and given I am nowhere near being able to really put on a show with my limited experience.. that's majorly impressive for the bike!
About 120 ish MPH the front end was getting jittery, it was bouncing around a bit and I didn't like that so I talked to him, saying, what could this be,rebound or what? Well immediately the guy who was following me (that I didn't know was following) says, there's nothing wrong with your suspension, it's the stupid torque that thing puts out. I was trying to pass you, you held your own pretty good into the corners, so I said, ok Ill catch him on the straight away and pass him, YOU started putting the throttle to the thing about halfway thru the turn and by the time you were straight you stomped on it, I was full throttle, I could not keep up, the torque on that thing is just crazy, I seen your front end, you are starting to lift it when you romp the throttle, it's not the shocks bouncing, it's the front end getting light and coming up.
I did not believe it at first, I was like, dude, I was doing 116, I don't think that was a wheelie, and he said,yah and your bike wanted to go from 116 to 166 in a few seconds! you left me behind like I was on a mini bike, you are lifting your front end, I seen it Im telling you.
So now I get to work on throttle control, or more specifically, my riding position, I need to try to keep hunched forward more and not sit up as much to try to keep the weight forward to keep the front end down if I want to hammer the throttle in straight aways. It is fun though, I mean, it's pretty much twist and hold on, literally, hold on, the bike IS taking off!
Laying down on the bike, and sitting up, your perspective on the track changes SIGNIFICANTLY !! You don't see nearly as much stuff laying down as sitting up, you BETTER know that track if you are going to assume race position or you may find yourself running off real fast when a corner comes up that you misjudged because you were on an even plane of eyesight with it and misjudged how close it was. I find that more and more I am running on muscle memory, and oddly, when I am pre occupied and running muscle mem thru the areas I am familiar with, I tend to do better laps when I am not actively focusing on them. Cursing at the latest bug to explode on my visor is a good example of being pre occupied. I swear these miserable huge locusts have a radar on them, my nickname should be the Bug Magnet.
Another thing I find is that wow, it's a long reach from the seat to the handlebars of the EGO. Then again it IS pretty much purely a racing bike, the goal it to get streamlined, not necessarily comfy.
I also finally put tank grips on the bike and wow what a world of difference they made, holy cow. The head is big and slippery on that bike, I was finding myself sliding around a bit, and the legs were not really holding to steer as they should so I was using more arm / handlebar to do the job, and that was wearing me out, and of course putting input into the handlebars, not always a good thing. The bike steers much better now that I took a few sessions to basically re learn how to DO it properly, and take the weight off my arms and more into the legs to maneuver. With this I am finding the bike is VERY V E R Y, receptive to the slightest leg inputs to lean into a turn and really hold a line. For the most part, I really don't need to swing my ass off the seat hugely and can just kind of lean or slip a butt cheek off and wham, im over and deep into the turn. For as much as the bike weighs, it's pretty amazing on how little input you really need to get her to swing right over and do what you need. Still though, wrasslin a 600 pound bike will wear your ass OUT at the end of the day !!
Im also liking the 190 / 55 tires on it too, over the 200 / 65s that were originally on it. Slicks, ok I can see the big fatties maybe but dot's the smaller ones give me a much better turn radius. Plus I am getting several days out of the tires instead of just a few. My last set lasted 4 days on the connie attack 2's before I burnt them up finally.
Well dammit, now that I am finally getting sort of good, and really learning how to make the bike perform the season will be over for some months. Well, this will give me some time to get the trailer fully put together and decked out so I can then travel wherever I need to with the bike. Taledega, Carolina Motorsports, etc, Here I come !
Aaron
-
So for today, we are running in the rain.
I decided to run the track in the rain, because. well, wtf not? I paid for the day, why piss away 180 bucks?
Actually, it's good to KNOW how to do something, the more you know, the more you are able to perform when it is demanded from you, rather than you volunteering to do it.
id rather learn how to run in the rain, on my own, by MY choice, and know how to work the bike, and stay safe, so that if I find myself getting CAUGHT in the rain unwanted (cough cough, I live in florida, what do you think THOSE odds are? :D ) I can continue to run safe.
It wasn't that bad really, seriously. For those who are skittish, give it a shot, it's really NOT that bad.
Do I need to do 128 mph on the back side, umm no, probably 105 is plenty, back your pace down, go easier into the turns, but otherwise, run your race the way you normally do, you'll know if you are getting close to edges of boundries.
The bike weighs 600 Lbs, it's going to get decent traction, I am sure the weight helps there a bit.
Is it going to slide and fling and hydroplane all over the place,. well. not unless you are running slicks.
Who's going to run slicks in the rain? NOBODY is that much of an idiot... I hope.
Just regular DOT tires, the Continental Attack 2's I want to say ///they are front and back, did the trick nicely. I hit some corners under speed, YES you CAN hear the tires gripping in the rain!! you can hear the water, .. for lack of a better word, tearing when you are running a wet track and tire shear is going on.
The take away here is, the bike performed superbly in the rain, in fact, I was slammin it!!! The adrenaline rush was on, and I was hammering it and the bike was my faithful partner.....
then the lightning started hitting everywhere and they called the rest of the day off. $#^%&^%^%
Ok, back to the point, if you have decent tires on your bike and it's raining out, don't be afraid, the Energica's are designed to perform extremely well in adverse conditions. If you are on a street bike, you have Traction Control which will be working overtime to save your ass. My race bike does not have TC so that's on ME, and even though I was hitting it a bit hot every now and then, it's not like the bike just jumped and went crazily out of control, it was VERY well mannered in less than nice road conditions.
There were some standing puddles. One of the instructors made a comment, don't worry about puddles, I hit them all the time, it's no big deal.
Now I don't swerve out of the way of puddles, doing that on a track is a HUGE no no !!! but I generally do alter my track line slightly to avoid them, I mean, why purposely go thru an area you know is less than ideal? SAFETY!! However after hearing the instructor say no big deal, Ok, I want to try it now, ramp it up, see how much of a 'no big deal' it really is.
If the puddle is 3 inches deep, NO you probably do NOT want to go thru that, especially at 80 MPH, that's an accident waiting to happen, especially if there is any lean in there. But if it's just a bit of standing water, guess what... it's no big deal... your 600 LB bike will slug right thru that like it was nothing. I hit the patch of standing water several times at increasing aggressiveness to see what my limits were on water sports :-*
The bike really didn't seem to notice much. This is a well designed bike, and if your tires are not bald, it'll bring you thru nice and safe.
Don't be afraid of rain, it's amazing how many people ARE afraid of it !!! We DO have an advantage though, our regen is stupid good awesome, engine braking, it'll stop you very nicely in rain / on wet roads. you got the EB use it, it will make life a LOT easier for you. You will be amazed how quick a high setting EB can stop you on wet pavement along with a gentle braking and do so safely and sanely.
in a way it's kind of sad, how badly, Regen is Under - Understood on Electric bikes on how valuable a tool it really is and can be. Everyone focus' on the power saving aspect of it, which in reality is kind of bullshit, and totally ignores the handling capabilities it now gives you. I wonder why the manu's don't go down this route as a selling item?
Well, tomorrow will be the last day for a while at Jennings, so ill be working on the trailer, getting it all spiffied up, and the possibly hitting other tracks and continuing to report how the bike is running. Let's hope it don't rain too much, however. I almost wish I had a set of rain tires, Id be really interested to see how well the bike performs on those .vs. just the regular dot's. I don't think there will be a lot of diff for most people unless you are just really in a swamp.
Aaron
-
Specter, will you tell what tire pressure you are running, please?
-
IM running about 29.5 in the back that goes up to about 33 ish when track hot. I like it there, I dont see any problems with my rear end.
It was recommended to try a bit lower, like 27 but it grows a bit much like 5 to 6 psi, and I think is a bit squirrely in hard corners.
So, basically right there 29 to 30 is the sweet spot cold. I get a nice even wear on the tire, it looks really good actually and they last a decent amount of time too.
Im running 31 to 32 in the front, it'll hit 36 ish in the front when hot. You have to remember, when it comes time to shed speed, especially if you have to do so quickly, that battery is a LOT of weight transfer forward in a hurry, you want that front loaded up to hold it. Not to mention if you are running a hard regen mode, you can probably easily transfer half your body weight or more to the handlebars as well, which will be picked up by the front.
I typically am right around 170 to 175 Lbs, and throw on 24 lbs of leathers, armor, boots, helmet and there you are. So you may need to adjust yours a bit if your numbers are off by say more than 10 to 15 lbs.
I DO need to add a disclaimer. I still am not entirely happy with my front end handling. I have shock / suspension work to do still. Ive had a few pro's ride the bike (one of them the suspension expert) and we are in agreement, something is not right and we need to figure and fix it. With that being said, eventually if we end up changing a spring, and shock loadings etc, the pressures may change a bit. But for now, this lets me run a respectable lap and do so safely. Currently Im running Continental Attack 2's 190/55 and 120?? whatever the front is.
Aaron
-
@Specter outstanding posts. Wish I could track my Rebelle. Amazing how much you learn from other riders on the track. So much expertise concentrated in one spot!
Was out at my local track riding my 400 yesterday.
Go pro footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOimi-bAj78
-
I DO need to add a disclaimer. I still am not entirely happy with my front end handling. I have shock / suspension work to do still.
The Ohlins have separate damping modules, compression on one fork and rebound on the other wondering (when worked hard) if steering head is at issue like triple-tree flex or head bearing preload.
Unlike BMW that used tapered roller bearing on steering head, I think Energica uses ball bearings? If so, that's something to look at.
-
IM running about 29.5 in the back that goes up to about 33 ish when track hot. I like it there, I dont see any problems with my rear end.
It was recommended to try a bit lower, like 27 but it grows a bit much like 5 to 6 psi, and I think is a bit squirrely in hard corners.
So, basically right there 29 to 30 is the sweet spot cold. I get a nice even wear on the tire, it looks really good actually and they last a decent amount of time too.
Im running 31 to 32 in the front, it'll hit 36 ish in the front when hot. You have to remember, when it comes time to shed speed, especially if you have to do so quickly, that battery is a LOT of weight transfer forward in a hurry, you want that front loaded up to hold it. Not to mention if you are running a hard regen mode, you can probably easily transfer half your body weight or more to the handlebars as well, which will be picked up by the front.
Thank you for sharing this!
Looking at the numbers I am guessing these are for your EGO in racetrack setting. Surely, on the street with your Ribelle you choose a higher pressure?
I had a (street) one-on-one training last week and the instructor encouraged me to reduce the tire pressure from the 2.9 bar / 42 PSI (Energica spec).
Currently I am trying 2.7/39 rear and 2.5/36 front. Still running on the Pirelli Diablo Rosso III.
Especially the reduction in front tire pressure improved the handling of the bike so much!
The reduction on the rear tire feels a bit wobbly sometimes, especially when accelerating after the apex of the curve. IDK if this is a bad thing.
-
Even the Ribelle, it weighs about the same. The handling WILL be a bit different, because your seating is different, handlebars are different etc. but still overall the weight is there on the tires.
36 is a good number to be in front, (hot), that equates to about 31-32 cold, though Ive gotten away with 30 cold up front as well. Ive noticed that too much psi up front and it wants to get jumpy or move around a bit. You want to find that spot where when you brake, the tire is compressing and fully engaging, yet not being smashed like a pancake, or on the other hand, too hard not compressing enough and you have less of a contact patch, now it may want to slide around a bit.
YES !!! it is amazing on how as little as a pound or two can make a HUGE difference in the handling up front. Also being your street bike, too hard up there, it picks up ALL the little bumps and dimples in the street and that can give you issues with TC and Braking, and Regen, open up a whole slew of other issues to muddy up the worldview.
The wobbly on the rear, after a corner and accel. Possibly you are getting a little light in the front end? Ive done this a few times, come out of a turn and hit the throttle a bit hard and start dancing up front. Not necessarily a back end issue, but a hot hand issue you are overdriving your front a bit :D Abruptness can cause this too, you always want to go easy on / easy off especially when it comes to such a high HP / Torque bike as the Energica, coming coming coming. ok here it is HAMMER IT!!! around a corner can get you in trouble. Sometimes I may talk this way in my write ups, or appear to, but in reality, you have to sliiiiiide into the throttle. Electric does not have power bands, gears and all that inconvenient limiting stuff that ICErs do, you got everything you have, available to you RIGHT NOW! if you so choose, so have to use a little more discipline.
Another thing to keep in mind, , ... street riding, really does NOT warm up tires much, so depending on how long / outside temps bla bla, you may also want to adjust your tire PSI's up a bit before the trip, because if you are just idling along at 50 mph you may never reach the temp to bring the inner psi up to where you want it.
Tire pressures are important, and yes even a pound or do can make a BIG difference on how the bike handles. Find what works best for YOU and YOUR bike and go from there. Do you weigh 150 or 350? THAT makes a difference too.
Tires don't warm up very much at low speeds, on wet roads, cold days. Weaving back and forth is NOT going to warm your tires up for you. Road riding, unless you are doing a LOT of hard accel for the rear tires, and hard braking for the fronts typically is not going to warm your wheels up a ton, so may need to bump the PSI a pound or two from what you considered normal.
The Energica is a HEAVY bike, it needs a LOT of support up front, that battery pack is a huge amount of weight being shoved forward on a stop, especially a harder one.
In the summer Ill run them a bit lower pressures, in florida YES that tire WILL warm up a bit, black on black in the baking sun, yah itll warm up alright.
Aaron
-
IM running about 29.5 in the back that goes up to about 33 ish when track hot. I like it there, I dont see any problems with my rear end.
It was recommended to try a bit lower, like 27 but it grows a bit much like 5 to 6 psi, and I think is a bit squirrely in hard corners.
So, basically right there 29 to 30 is the sweet spot cold. I get a nice even wear on the tire, it looks really good actually and they last a decent amount of time too.
Im running 31 to 32 in the front, it'll hit 36 ish in the front when hot. You have to remember, when it comes time to shed speed, especially if you have to do so quickly, that battery is a LOT of weight transfer forward in a hurry, you want that front loaded up to hold it. Not to mention if you are running a hard regen mode, you can probably easily transfer half your body weight or more to the handlebars as well, which will be picked up by the front.
Thank you for sharing this!
Looking at the numbers I am guessing these are for your EGO in racetrack setting. Surely, on the street with your Ribelle you choose a higher pressure?
I had a (street) one-on-one training last week and the instructor encouraged me to reduce the tire pressure from the 2.9 bar / 42 PSI (Energica spec).
Currently I am trying 2.7/39 rear and 2.5/36 front. Still running on the Pirelli Diablo Rosso III.
Especially the reduction in front tire pressure improved the handling of the bike so much!
The reduction on the rear tire feels a bit wobbly sometimes, especially when accelerating after the apex of the curve. IDK if this is a bad thing.
FWIW, For my Ego RS with the stock Rosso III's on the track, I run 32 psi cold up front and 29 psi cold rear. That has given me good grip, handling and wear and has worked well in sessions with California Superbike School. On the street I just run the book-recommended 42/42 - but I don't push it on the street.
-
@Aaron: Thanks a lot for that valuable input!
You are probably right that the wobbly feel comes from pushing too hard when accelerating out of the corner. I will have to learn to handle the throttle more smoothly!
So, for the time being, I will keep to that 2.5-36 front bc it feels pretty good and tinker a bit around with rear tire pressure to find my personal sweet spot.
@Phaedrus: Thx for your comment, I understand that you more or less run the same pressure on track as Aaron. I booked a racetrack training in July and will remember that!
-
@Specter , if you are still having toe drag issues, consider putting a camera on the fairing and filming your feet. Will help you analyze what needs modification.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__sdTvDmggI
-
Pard the toe issue is me leaning the bike over that much. I can't get off the seat as much as I need, or as fast as I need, so was leaning the bike into the turn THAT much. It still had solid grip but as you can see by my tires, I used every ounce of bike and tire in those turns, sometimes even tickling sidewalls it seems. If I had my leg hanging way down it would have absolutely been my knee. Now we BOTH know that, this much lean, is not the greatest way to do things. so Ive been working on trying to get over / get off more.
I got better tank grips now I can really squeeze my legs into the bike and STEER finally! That is a big grip and slippery as shit otherwise and you do NOT have a lot of control otherwise ...nothing to grip and control, if you are slipping and sliding. This leaves you with handlebar input and lean input... again, BOTH not the best way to do things. It was a bad habit I learned because I didn't have proper setup on the tank.
Now I am UN learning that habit, getting much better at using my legs to steer and the arms only to gently guide, ie NO death grip or strong arming the handle bar, (unless you are in a hard / bad stop of course)
My other problem is, my back is full of screws / pins / rods / plates and other hardware that comes with multiple fusions. My neck has artificial discs, my left arm / shoulder has hardware in it. Hip.. well you get the idea. Im not as limber as I once was, now throw a shit ton of arthritis and 60 years of abuse onto the body and well.... Here I am !!! 8) ;D Im working on it, it's going to be a long road, but eventually Ill figure things out to do better around all this crap.
I do not zip from side to side as fast as I'd like to, or sometimes need to, and i may take a second or so to get from one side to another... now throw 120 mph and multiple fast left / right / left / / GO GO GO !! type turns and you don't have a few seconds to get over to the other side, AND BACK !! so you can slow down / hang over / lean like a mo fo... It's a work of art.... in progress 8)
Im doing my research now and will probably get one of those 360 x4 camera's to mount. Thinking in the front windshield area might be the best, that way I can see in front of me, see ME, my lean and that stuff to start helping me along as well. If not there Ive seen some that mount on the ass end, I was thinking of putting it behind me but up and over my head, that way it shows EVERYthing in front, including me, and the back as well, but they don't really like camera's on sticks, on the tracks, so i'll have to figure that out too.
Aaron
-
^^^ Understood! Brave man indeed taking on this adventure despite the orthopedic challenges. Bravo!
-
Ya gotta work with what you have. I do NOT plan on dying healthy, nor do I intend on dying, laying in a bed whimpering and withering away. I want to have as much fan as possible, even if it's painful the next day. :'( The only thing that will stop me is if for some reason I become dangerous to those around me. If I end up killing myself, oh well but if I get so decrepit that am starting to be a major danger to other around me, then it's over. Otherwise, game on !!
When Im in my 80s and still racing, Ill see if I can get Geritol and Depends to sponsor me! Maybe they'll have a league and we can race our rasquals around the lunch room :D :D
Aaron
-
Pard the toe issue is me leaning the bike over that much. I can't get off the seat as much as I need, or as fast as I need, so was leaning the bike into the turn THAT much. Now we BOTH know that, this much lean, is not the greatest way to do things. so Ive been working on trying to get over / get off more.
Getting old sucks! The only way to overcome is to adapt. Rotating your foot inward can help increase clearance when leaned over, as does moving your foot further back on the pegs. Alternatively you can adjust the peg position @ the rear set. Lastly adjusting the suspension so the bike sits higher will give more clearance.
I got better tank grips now I can really squeeze my legs into the bike and STEER finally! That is a big grip and slippery as shit otherwise and you do NOT have a lot of control otherwise ...nothing to grip and control, if you are slipping and sliding. This leaves you with handlebar input and lean input... again, BOTH not the best way to do things. It was a bad habit I learned because I didn't have proper setup on the tank.
Now I am UN learning that habit, getting much better at using my legs to steer and the arms only to gently guide, ie NO death grip or strong arming the handle bar, (unless you are in a hard / bad stop of course)
I share your bad habit of favoring my arms vs using my legs & core. The front end of a bike need to float, fighting it just makes things worse and uses up your energy. I would be a much better rider if I had spent more time riding dirt bikes offroad getting comfortable with a bike moving around underneath me.
Im doing my research now and will probably get one of those 360 x4 camera's to mount. Thinking in the front windshield area might be the best, that way I can see in front of me, see ME, my lean and that stuff to start helping me along as well. If not there Ive seen some that mount on the ass end, I was thinking of putting it behind me but up and over my head, that way it shows EVERYthing in front, including me, and the back as well, but they don't really like camera's on sticks, on the tracks, so i'll have to figure that out too.
Onboard video is a great way to visualize what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong. If you can't run with a stick, try mounting the camera to the upper fork tube looking back at you or on the swingarm (rear stand spool works well) looking forward. Those angles should let you see how your are positioning your body in the turns. Make sure you get footage from both sides as your position is probably different in left vs right hand corners.
IM running about 29.5 in the back that goes up to about 33 ish when track hot. I like it there, I dont see any problems with my rear end.
It was recommended to try a bit lower, like 27 but it grows a bit much like 5 to 6 psi, and I think is a bit squirrely in hard corners.
Sounds like you have your pressures figured out. +3psi hot vs cold is a good benchmark.
Just remember to keep checking your temps throughout the day. As the track temp or your pace changes you will generate more or less heat. You need to adjust your tire pressures accordingly. A pyrometer will allow you to monitor your pre & post session tire temps. A infrared temp gun can be used to check the track surface. These data points can help you decide on optimal tire pressure for conditions. Tire warmers will allow you to bring your tires up to optimal temps and to maintain those temps between sessions. This removes a variable and allows you to skip the 1-2 warm up laps needed to get your tires up to temp.
-
Thank you for your inputs @Demoni.
Yah the foot, I already have it as in as I can, always 'remember' to pull it back in turn 8 when it scrapes 8) but even plastered to the bike still occasionally drag it. Now that my speeds are faster, I am approaching that turn a bit different (actually let's be honest, and say more correctly) so unless I miss the setup on 7, should be able to get that one with a lot less lean angle needed and circling the drain on it so badly, Ill be starting my apex touch more centered instead of rimming it. Ill try adjusting peg position however riding the bike higher is pretty much out of the question, im barely touching the ground at idle as it is now, that is NOT really a good option at this point unfortunately. Ideally at stop I like to be flatfooted with the bike, not on the balls of my feet like I currently am. Just a little uneven ground and things can get challenging keeping the bike up.
Using the arms, with hard regen, it's kind of a given, the regen takes the place of braking. A few of the experts have made that comment, wow you are shifting your body weight really hard, which my reply is, whether you are using regen or brakes, it's the same thing, ..YES it IS a different way of riding, and you are used to braking, I learned using Regen Braking, but once you DO learn how to use it, you learn how to feather it, JUST like you'd do with your brakes, you don't grab a handfull of brakes, you gently ease in and off it, need to learn the same with the throttle, a little to slow a little or maintain your current speed or a lot to slow faster, way off to basically apply your full rear brake, almost fully. Ive discussed this a bit with Stefano and can understand now why he prefers braking over regen, that's the way he learned, and how he rides his other bikes, it's one less thing to have to learn and eventually master. He's good at it the old fashioned way, so why reinvent that? Me now, Ive basically taught myself to ride with the regen, so lets see if I can master it. Don't get me wrong, I do know how to apply the brake properly and am getting a lot better at being gentle with it, especially with those sensitive monsters!, but regen is just one less hand movement / input to have to manage IMO. Gloves occasionally can get in the way of braking if they are not perfectly on your hands.
Ill re check the rule on selfie sticks. I KNOW your camera has to be hard tethered, will check on the stick, I think a stick in back aiming forward would show you everything you really need to see TBH. Id really love to see my real lean, to ME it feels like Im way off the seat, leaning way over, but I bet it's not, and it's not like you can just look down and check when you are that leaned over, that'd probably end up a bad day for you heh.
Aaron
-
https://www.facebook.com/ElectricAddictRacing/videos/474992631705094/
watch till end!
-
Oooo. Oooo. Ow. That sounded expensive. Loved how quick you were to stand and give the thumbs up, not bad for an old bloke. I note the crash happened not long after that silver/white bike was pressuring you……..
-
Im not seeing anything posted Pard,did you take the vid down?
Aaron
-
Facebook video, if that affects it. Must watch viewing.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/474992631705094?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&mibextid=0VwfS7 (https://www.facebook.com/reel/474992631705094?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&mibextid=0VwfS7)
-
Im not seeing anything posted Pard,did you take the vid down?
Aaron
Link to facebook. Still there. I am not the rider.
-
I seen it now.
Ouch, yah that did sound expensive, I don't care which brand of bike it is, they ALL are proud of their plastic. Probably a brake lever and foot pedal too. Id throw in a handle bar insert too.
Thankfully he's not injured, or didn't appear to be.
Wonder how he lost it, obvious lowside but how did it happen, im curious.
Aaron