ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: Specter on January 10, 2024, 01:13:42 AM
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Ok, so I need to jack the bike up to do chain maintenance, tire maintenance, whatever.
A. The bitch is heavy, it's a hell of a heft to try to lift it with one of the paddock stands.
I got the Enerciga one and it's woefully incapable. You'd have to be hercules to lift it with that thing, there is no torque on it, and Id have to weld a huge ass bar to it to get the leverage.
B. The bike needs to be straight up and down, it don't normally stand this way w/o help, and if you do manage to prop it so it's straight, it's very wanting to tip this way or that way. This means you need to really be holding it upright while the ass end is being jacked up. That takes 2 people, I do not have a clone.
C. If you do manage to get the leverage to start lifting the bike, I just see the slightest lean this way or that and it's over on it's side. What happens if you try to lift it and it's not already straight and level?
D. basically it appears you need 2 people to do this safely and I am only 1 person.
I would like some sort of hydraulic jack or paddock stand that can be operated by one person, while you are holding the bike upright, it lifts the bike off the ground and secures it.
I looked at bike jacks, and they seem like they are wanting to lift from the underbelly area somehow.
or maybe some other idea I have not thought of here. Something that can lift the rear tire (or front) that can be operated by one person who is not especially strong anymore due to my spine being half metal. Even if the existing, I put a long ass handle on it so I could heft on it, I still see that initial lift off the ground, as the bike is leveling itself, if it's not perfect, it just wants to tip right over w/o someone holding the bike steady.
any ideas?
Thanks
Aaron
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This is how I do it, and I am 140 pounds soaking wet...
Get a proper front chock. Not a cheap unit. It will stabilize it securely. This is the key to doing it safely, by yourself.
https://baxleycompanies.com/products/sport-chock?variant=39329523663022
Drive the bike, while seated on it, ( don't walk it on. Ride it on and off. We have reverse !) into the chock and only then, use the rear stand.
Once in the front Chock, the bike is going nowhere. You would have to try really hard to tip it over.
Get a heavy duty pitbull stand and spools for the swingarm. Pitbull is the best out there. Very stable and heavy duty. Will last a lifetime. Does not flex even under the Energica's weight.
Get the extra long handle that detaches from the stand. Plenty of leverage and stable.
https://www.pit-bull.com/energica
https://www.pit-bull.com/energica/ss-rear-motorcycle-stand-f0028-000
If you use a rear stand without a front chock, you can possibly drop the bike. With it, never.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rv3IVbHcDw
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Front first then rear, I have a Bursig lift that I'm trying to mate to the Ribelle.
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Thank you both.
Pard, I have one of those stands I use to hold the bike when I have to trailer it.
Only problem, which I learned, it slides, so trying to get the bike to reverse out of it, it didn't want to climb up and flip the thing back over and somehow the front end ended up sliding a bit sideways, the front of the bike cocked, and I ended up calling a friend to help me get the half sideways , tipped over bike out of the trailer. The floor in the trailer was wood and it was probably not as clean as it should have been, lesson learned.
Ill have to try that chock on concrete and see how well it holds her upright then try to hump the rear end up again.
Im getting a pit bull stand to hold it in my new trailer for when I goto the track with it. I might order a rear paddock if they have some with extra long handles on them.
thanks again
Aaron
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Front first then rear, I have a Bursig lift that I'm trying to mate to the Ribelle.
Respectfully disagree.
Front stands should never be used first, or alone. Always rear stand before front stand for stability.
Front chock is different. It provides stability.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUO-oNW8C-Q&t=1s
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I have no problems with the Energica rear stand, ok, it's a bit narrow. Trick is to go behind the bike on the right rear side. Place the left support under the left bobbin and with the right hand guide the right support towards the right bobbin (the stand is a bit narrow as mentioned), and simultaneously press the stand down with left hand raising the bike. As soon as both bobbins are in the slots press the stand further down with left hand. That works for me.
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I have no problems with the Energica rear stand, ok, it's a bit narrow. Trick is to go behind the bike on the right rear side. Place the left support under the left bobbin and with the right hand guide the right support towards the right bobbin (the stand is a bit narrow as mentioned), and simultaneously press the stand down with left hand raising the bike. As soon as both bobbins are in the slots press the stand further down with left hand. That works for me.
This ^^.
I use the same method but from the left side of the bike...works fine. Also have the front stand for when removing both wheels to change tyres etc..I never use the front stand first....not safe to do so and would be very unstable.....Rear stand first....always.
Smithy.
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Any reason one of these wouldnt work?
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Any reason one of these wouldnt work?
Would not work, bc there is no sufficient surface underneath the bike where you could lift it up.
@Aaron:
The Pit Bull one-handed rear stand could really the best option for you. A big plus is that you don't need so much space behind the bike.
See the pic attached or the video on YT: https://youtu.be/HlQk4iTnack
For Europeans there is the German company Kern-Stabi who are manufacturing similar stuff like Pit Bull. I can really recommend this - safely putting the bike on a rear stand without help.
https://shop.montagestaender.de/motorrad-produkte/kern-stabi-motorradheber-einzeln/montagestaender-mono-zentral-heck.html?listtype=search&searchparam=2038
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Thank you both.
Pard, I have one of those stands I use to hold the bike when I have to trailer it.
Only problem, which I learned, it slides, so trying to get the bike to reverse out of it, it didn't want to climb up and flip the thing back over and somehow the front end ended up sliding a bit sideways, the front of the bike cocked, and I ended up calling a friend to help me get the half sideways , tipped over bike out of the trailer. The floor in the trailer was wood and it was probably not as clean as it should have been, lesson learned.
Ill have to try that chock on concrete and see how well it holds her upright then try to hump the rear end up again.
Im getting a pit bull stand to hold it in my new trailer for when I goto the track with it. I might order a rear paddock if they have some with extra long handles on them.
thanks again
Aaron
Indeed, a chock can slide on a smooth surface if you mount or dismount it too quickly.
Creep into it while seated and riding the Energica, and even on a smooth surface it wont slide because the weight on the bike is pinning it to the surface.
Very slow and smooth works for me when I have the chock on a wooden surface.
On a rough/textured surface a good chock will not move even if you are more agressive .
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There was probably some silt or dirt on the woood making it even more slippery and it slid on me. I am thinking of putting down some nonskid strips so that nothing goes anywhere. To be honest though, with the new trailer I am building out for the bikes, it will have a ramp and the pit bulls in it and hopefully no problems.
I recently got a great deal on a used 14 x 8 trailer with a tool box in it, a big husky box, which I may nor may not use, but anyways. I am putting probably 40 or so KW of batteries in it, and 20 to 30 kw of inverters in it and my fast charger. Then when I am out on the track running the bikes, I can just plug and fast charge between sessions. Also, it can act as an emergency backup for the house too, or just more storage for the longer periods of rain that florida gets. Back to the bike though, Ill probably be alone most the times on the track, my buddy doesn't like the idea of track days, so screw him :) but Ill need to figure this out here. I think with the front chock idea I should be able to do this.
Problem is, I had a front chock earlier, but it was on the slippery surface and the bike could not get out of it with energica's reverse, it didn't have the oomph to climb up enough to flip the holder back, and when I tried to back into it with a bit of movement already the whole bitch slid and well, that was all it took, it slid sideways a bit and twisted, the front wheel turned and down we all went, inside a trailer. Now that I am a bit smarter and more experienced handling bikes, I am going to give it another shot and see if we can do this the right way.
Right now my biggest concern is I can kind of prop the bike standing straight up, but it's teetery, and I just envision as I am trying to lift it with the paddock, it tips this way or that, probably the side AWAY from the kick stand and down we go... again. since I will be in the back jumping up and down on the paddock trying to get the leverage to lift it, and not standing aside it holding the bike steady. we'll see..
Aaron
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Any reason one of these wouldnt work?
Not on the Experia.....there's no "flat bottom" section under the battery, just a plastic belly pan.
Smithy.
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Well I got the bike up on the stand today and figured out why i had such an issue before. The reverse does not have enough torque to lift the tire up and over enough to tip the stand holder back out, you have to walk it back and give it a big heft. Also, as it flips over it also lifts the wheel about 3 inches off the ground, so there is that added height, which put me on my tippy toes riding/walking the bike back out of the stand. I managed to get it humped over and back on steady ground with a bit of effort. Ill wear my track boots to give me the little extra added height to get a little more footage to push and hold the bike when it comes back down.
Yah, I need a new chain, this one has some very tight spots and some loose ones and you can hear it grumbling as it goes around the front sprocket in some spots. I guess Ill have to wait for that tool to come back into stock to change the sprocket too so I am told.
Aaron
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I never had a problem with reverse getting me out of the chock. Even when slightly down hill.
Can you post a pic of the bike in the chock?
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yah let me put it back up. its the getting the rear holder to flip back over from being up on the tire in the back to being on the ground to let the tire back out. it has to lift the tire about 3 inches and the bike just dont have the oomph to push the back end hard enough to flip it back over without me helping
aaron
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The only thing I can think of is maybe the front holder is too tight and its squeezing the tire, if I get a wider one but then that'd reduce the stability and tightness of holding the bike steady.
anyways
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That chock looks fine. Reverse should absolutely pull you free of it. You may have to go to "Full Throttle" reverse to get it to move initially, but have no fear, you will have plenty of time to react and release the throttle.
Practice it a few times.
The bike has more than enough in reverse to get you out of that chock.
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Maybe lube up the pins and mating surfaces of the stand? I have a Baxley, and it never slides when pulling back out of it. I've had it slide forward 1" if I go in aggressively and hit the brake. The action is super smooth on it though and it's much heavier than that one above.
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I am at full throttle, the bike is hunkering down but not breaking free until I rock it really hard, then it comes up on the flip over and comes off. Ive been practicing and am getting good at it, but still Id expect a bit more torque in Reverse than it has. Forward has plenty of power to walk it up a ramp but reverse, not so much power it seems.
The stand is plenty free, there is nothing tight or binding on it,
Aaron
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I am at full throttle, the bike is hunkering down but not breaking free until I rock it really hard, then it comes up on the flip over and comes off. Ive been practicing and am getting good at it, but still Id expect a bit more torque in Reverse than it has. Forward has plenty of power to walk it up a ramp but reverse, not so much power it seems.
The stand is plenty free, there is nothing tight or binding on it,
Aaron
In that case, perhaps it is time to buy yourself a Baxely. Perhaps it is engineered differently from your unit that makes it easier to use.
https://baxleycompanies.com/products/sport-chock?variant=39329523663022
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Slightly off topic but...does anyone have a burning desire to actually RIDE backwards? There's a kids' playground near me that has huge rubber mats...and grass...
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For basic chain/wheel maintenance and stuff with the rear end a center stand, in my experience, is the gold standard. While I wait for the supply chain gods to shine favor upon me, I got a SnapJack. it's a portable little thing that props the rear of the bike up by levering it against the kickstand. Fine for cleaning and lubing the chain. I wouldnt use it if your really cranking on something or if your going to remove the wheel, but to hit that chain with some WD40 and a grunge brush it's super easy.
You kind of press it with your foot while lifting on the tail.
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Slightly off topic but...does anyone have a burning desire to actually RIDE backwards? There's a kids' playground near me that has huge rubber mats...and grass...
I've done it for about 100m or so on the wife's CE04 at 6km/h just to try (will often do 5-10m). Steering inputs for balance are the hardest part, but there's a video of someone who made a bicycle with reverse steering and it would be the same principal...i think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0&ab_channel=SmarterEveryDay (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0&ab_channel=SmarterEveryDay)
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That's like those glasses that you can get that make everything you see upside down. It takes about a day but your brain will turn the picture back the proper side up again. But then if you take the glasses off and are looking normally, now everything is upside down again! your brain has to re learn up and down and perspective.
With that, I wonder how much more or less difficult it would be to undo that, or switch that up / down aspect if one was born in outer space or a gravity free environment where up and down really are much more arbitrary.
Food for Thought
Aaron
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I have extremely difficult to correct astigmatism plus sometimes I need mild prism correction. Each new set of glasses makes me dizzy for a day or two. But then when I take them off, or use an old pair, the problem doesn't return. My brain gets wired for each state, I suppose. It can be weird to ride a motorcycle as my depth percept is boned, things take a curvature, and if I look down the ground looks far away.
Hot tip: DO NOT go do a black diamond trail on your mountain bike just hours after getting your new glasses.
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plus sometimes I need mild prism correction.
I'm in my office cackling like a hyena because I was just skimming this and had to do a double take. I read it as your glasses were giving you a mild priapism.
;D
Maybe I need new glasses
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"If your erection lasts more than four hours, call your doctor."
That's always made me wonder how they know my doctor is pretty damn hot?
The other day I called in sick with rectal myopia. Couldn't see my ass coming to work.
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The only thing I can think of is maybe the front holder is too tight and its squeezing the tire, if I get a wider one but then that'd reduce the stability and tightness of holding the bike steady.
anyways
The smooth and soft (powder coat) surface on the front part of the chock is gripping onto the front tire. Brands like Condor solve this by applying a textured finish to the surface, this prevents the tire from gluing it's self to the chock.
As a quick fix just tape a paper towel so it sits between the tire and the chock, should release easily. As a more permanent fix they make adhesive backed tape with a textured surface normally used on outdoor stairs.
If you can secure the chock so it can not move that will also help a ton. If you can't affix it to the ground bolting it to a 2'x3' piece of plywood will give the chock a much larger footprint.
Getting a bike on a rear stand solo is something that gets easier with practice. Always make sure the kickstand is fully extended and the bars are turned to the left as far as they will go. This ensures that if you loose control when lifting or lowering the bike will tend to fall to the left and onto the kickstand. Until you have the technique down I would strongly suggest you have someone support the bike or use a wheel chock.
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I've left the bike in the chock for two weeks at a time and the tire was never stuck to the shiny powder coat.
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Thanks Demoni, I'll give the paper towel thing a try see if that works. I've got the hang of it now ,a bit of practice solved the issue but still was surprised how difficult it was getting the bike up and off the chock. Me being a short shit, doesn't help a ton, when the bike lifts and you are backing it out on your tippy toes, and trying to walk it back when it finally does flip and the bike wants to lurch backwards and you are playing with the foot pegs, trying to keep a good foothold on the ground and walking it back.
Speaking of jacks though to lift the entire bike up, where would you jack point it at, there does not seem to be a lot of area that is acceptable to put a jack on on the RIbelle and I don't think it'd be a good idea to jack it by the battery pack. Ive seen jacks that are more like lifting bars that you snake thru, but a general, flat plate heft the bike up jack doesn't seem like it's be an easy fit.
Aaron
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Like the paper towel, I wrapped mine with a cloth neck gator and safety pins. Made it 80% easier to remove. I have the same chock.
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@Demoni thanks for the suggestion to use a paper towel. Holy crap that was easy now! It's amazing how much that little bit of rubber can hold on that stand, wow. The bike just pops on and off now with very little effort. My other bike comes in today, so can't wait to chock that one see how it works as well..
Aaron
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Hi just lurking around, Im usually in the Zero forum.
To lift my motorcycles when needed, I re-used an old $50 boat winch from Harbor Freight, attached to a wood block. This is then placed across the top of a heavy duty aluminum ladder. I put the bike under the ladder, use the bikes 12v, and lift it with the winch. Different bikes, different lifts, require unique ways of connecting the winch to protect the bike but once they are crafted, just put them in the storage box with the winch and you dont have to do it again.
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That sounds kind of dangerous, even for an aluminum ladder. I think the max weight is typically 500 lbs and that's using it as a ladder ie the weight is bearing on the feet, putting it longwise like a scaffold, I am not sure it was really designed to handle that much non axial weight. the bike weighs almost 600 lbs.
I have found that draping an old burlap sack, which I have dozens and dozens of from my coffee business, over the front chock, it saves the rub marks on tires from the metal on rubber as it seats and it comes out easy peazy now. Will experiment with laying a bag on the flip flop side too to keep from scuffing the tires or possibly chaffing them if you hit them not entirely head on. I think it will work just fine that way as well and be gentler on tires. Tried the paper towel, it worked ok, until it rained, then it was worse than no rag at all. Washing the bike Id assume would be a disaster as well with the paper method.
Aaron
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I've never seen it flex or seen any signs of danger. It's one of those expanding "Gorilla" ladders. When I lift my bikes Im only lifting the front or back, so the other other wheel remains on the ground. Not the whole weight, only a portion. Also my bikes are a bit lighter, the heaviest is my SR/S which I think is about 550lb. Just a suggestion that works for me. Don't do anything crazy.
The weight is applied in the same direction as if you were standing on it, just from the top step.
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I got ya. I got one of those, it's an articulating ladder, heavy as shit, has 4 sections of 5 or 6 feet each and weights god about 80 lbs. I can use it as a scaffold too. My house has one of those stupid ass stairways with the fkn light at the top right in the middle of it where there is NO WAY to reach the damned thing w/o some sort of crazy ladder, and it has a poofty cover on it that you need to unscrew via 3 bolts just to even get at the bulb... so scaffold it was to change a stupid light bulb :(
Also yah I was thinking of lifting the entire bike, in your case, the weight is probably about half so very much in it's range.
thanks for the clarification.
Aaron
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Hi, I just bought a 2022 Esse Esse and could not believe how hard it is to put it on my paddock stand compared to my Zero SR/F that I thought was heavy. Anyway the answer to your problem and mine is the centre lift stand made by tower.de a German firm. Have a look at the you tube video about them using their stand on a Esse Esse.
It's brilliant and although about £400 it is worth its weight in gold. I have just sent them an email to order one. I would have done it directly from their webpage but couldn't as they have not yet listed Energcia as one of the makes they supply lifts to. Their video is only two weeks old.
Regards
Frank
(I live in Dumfries Scotland)
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Well if you know it works on your bike, can't you just pick any bike, or one that is close to yours and have them send it that way since your specific is not listed?
Also, do you have a link to the video please.
Thanks
Aaron
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The EU version of this lift is called Bike Tower...?
https://www.bursigusa.com/gallery/ (https://www.bursigusa.com/gallery/)
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Hmm, that IS an interesting lift! It will hold a heavy bike like a Ribelle ok and is fairly sturdy? Even if you are clumping and bumping around on it a bit like changing tires or chains? Ill have to look into that one further here, I like what I am seeing so far.
Aaron
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Hi Specter,
I bought one of these stands for my Esse Esse 9+ RS. It is brilliant, bit expensive but worth every penny.
https://www.bike-tower.de/en/
Regards
Frank
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now, now that would definitely do the trick!
Are they available in the us?
I might get one of those. I assume you bolt it to the frame somehow and then it just clips on and off?
that looks like it might be quite a bit easier than the paddock stands. But what when the bike is bent over on its kick stand. thats one thing about the ego, that bike leans over pretty far on that stand IMO, it could be about an inch longer maybe.
aaron
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Aaron , Did you ever get your bike fixed?
Read this:
https://thepack.news/energica-a-human-and-technological-heritage-to-be-preserved/
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Im waiting on them to give the insurance adjuster an estimate to fix it. Im also having some other stuff done as well so waiting for that tool
On that bike holder, it would work really good with the Ribelle but I bet not so much for the ego because thefairings would get in the way. Id rather not drill holes in the fairing if i can help it.
Man, that sucks I hope they don't go under. This might be an opportunity for them to go world wide on their OWN without having to play shit games with assholes like the ones who fucked them over. Id invest in them. Hell I aleady have to the tune of a couple of bikes. but seriously, if they have that much of a backlog on the bikes and that much interest, if they can get the stuff rolling out the door, then the wheels will slowly start to churn and they'll pick up the steam.
If they can get the credits in the USA for that rebate that would help them HUGELY when people see the govt rebate.
Shit I hope they don't go under that would really suck. Unfortunately nobody really knows what is going on, there are not a lot of words being said anywhere. This article says they need investors. well instead of asking one or two for a few million dollars, why not float a bond? Sell shares or something like that. Promise 5 percent or even 6 or so percent interest to make it lucerative to investors. I mean shit you can't get a loan for cash for under 10 anymore really, so it's be easier on them to pay that interest than to a bank.
aaron
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Problem is, if the numbers just don't show a path to profitability, it becomes an impossible sale.
I hope there is at least one dealer out there, maybe EONE, that is trained well enough on the systems who could keep the bikes running even if the company shuts down. Even so, if certain parts fail, that will be the end of the road without a supplier.
I will just enjoy riding the bike until it stops working. Kind of knew all along this was a possibility when I purchased the bike.
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https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/electric-motorcycle-manufacturer-energica-reported-on-the-verge-of-closure
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Definitely not looking good. The only silver lining, if you can call it that, is that the broader industry marches on at the same technological pace. A trailblazing company can show us an early glimpse of the future, but it only takes off when the technology is mature and buyers are ready for it. It will suck if I can’t buy an Experia in 3-5 years with more range and faster charging, but eventually I’ll be able to.
I don’t even personally need it to be full electric. I just want the instant torque delivery of a powerful electric motor with no gear changes. Given the fast deterioration of the charging network that I witnessed over my ownership of the SS9, I would actually prefer to gas up on longer trips and do shorter ones on battery power. Small battery = low cost, low manufacturing emissions, and charging from a regular outlet. It could also mean taking advantage of mass production economies of scale with detachable batteries from a supplier like Honda, Yamaha, or Gogoro. I don’t expect to see that kind of a hybrid for a while (thanks Kawasaki), but eventually it will be too expensive not to do it. After all, it won’t be long before an electric motor, controller, and 2 x 15 lbs scooter batteries are cheaper and lighter than a 6-speed transmission and 400-800c extra CC’s. Show me 40 miles of EV range, 300+ total miles before the first fuel-up, 90+ MPG, literbike acceleration at sub-100 MPH speeds, and smoother than a Goldwing, all for equal or less money to current ICE bikes, and you’d be crazy to buy a gasser.
Energica gave us the chance to buy a bike like that (minus the 300 mile range) about 15 years early, but their demise wouldn’t change the basic reality that in about 7 years, any manufacturer who doesn’t have a hybrid is going to be charging more money for an objectively inferior bike, and many of the anti-EV people who would have bought them anyway will be retired from riding by then. Another 10 years after that (2040-2045), and battery tech and the charging network will be so good that you can delete the hybrid part and still have 180+ highway miles at reasonable prices. By then, it might start getting harder to find a gas station, anyway. As I see it, that’s the future of motorcycles whether Energica exists or not.
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Oh dear, that doesn't sound good, now I understand why almost no dealers are displayed on the German Energica website, they are leaving the sinking ship and we customers are left with "electronic waste"...
My dealer hasn't received any replies to inquiries for weeks, that clears it up, what a bummer.
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https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/news/ev-motorcycle-maker-energica-sure-seems-like-it-s-going-bankrupt/ar-AA1sfNQp
https://www.rideapart.com/news/737349/energica-possibly-bankrupt-workers-strike-italy/
https://www.ilrestodelcarlino.it/modena/cronaca/energica-risposte-rapide-o-scioperiamo-8fc4abd7