ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: Apollo on November 28, 2023, 12:19:58 AM
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In looking at the latest financials, it looks like Energica is planned to be sold though not officially announced.
This last year it appears to have taken some pretty big losses. This is really something to do more homework on and review if you are expecting long-term support for your EV motorcycle.
Apollo.
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It would seem, then, the logical response is to buy a bike from a company whose massive crowdfunding campaign that expires in 24 hours has yielded, currently, $132,813.
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It would seem that Apollo's defense about Lightning motorcycles has drifted into Energica's lane...
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MVetter are you still the Energica Sales Specialist at the Energica USA South San Francisco store? If you are still an Energica associate can you share any insight into Ideanomics plans? The Ideanomics SEC filing for 2023 Q3 has assets held for sale on page 18. It is public information. Energica is listed as one of the assets held for sale. Do you know what is happening?
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It would seem that Apollo's defense about Lightning motorcycles has drifted into Energica's lane...
Actually, it was an Energica employee who recommended I look into financial reporting. I would be surprised if Energica encouraged the business ethics some of its employees display.
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All startups in the motorcycle and automotive space lose money for years before they start to turn a profit, and most go out of business before that ever happens.
Energica has a brand that is gaining momentum with well-loved products that compete at the top of the industry, personnel with core competency that goes back to racing efforts starting over a decade ago, and a growing multi-national dealer network. Even if there’s no profit yet, these things are rare and valuable to anyone looking to get into the space, so even if Ideanomics or Energica itself goes bust, there’s a good chance that their operations will not be much affected by a restructuring of the holding company.
There are no guarantees in this world, of course, and the fruits of promising companies have certainly been scattered to the winds before, but you’ve got a much better shot at continuing service by buying an Energica than any of the other small E-moto companies. The other small e-moto startups* haven’t even shown that they can bring a full-sized electric two-wheeler to market for general sale, much less support it for years to come.
*I don’t consider Zero to be small anymore.
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MVetter are you still the Energica Sales Specialist at the Energica USA South San Francisco store? If you are still an Energica associate can you share any insight into Ideanomics plans? The Ideanomics SEC filing for 2023 Q3 has assets held for sale on page 18. It is public information. Energica is listed as one of the assets held for sale. Do you know what is happening?
Oh look a spam account.
edit- there is no store in SF, nor do I live or work in SF.
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It would seem that Apollo's defense about Lightning motorcycles has drifted into Energica's lane...
Actually, it was an Energica employee who recommended I look into financial reporting. I would be surprised if Energica encouraged the business ethics some of its employees display.
So, was that before or after you said in Reply #71 to Re: Whatever Happened to Lightning Motorcycles,
"As it seems like digging into Lightning's financials is the primary concern of some people, why don't we dig into the financials of other manufacturers?
Did anyone check into the financials for Energica? Honda? VW? (They are in debt hell. 196.79B for Sept. 30, 2023). Toyota (Also in debt hell, September 2023: $223.34 B, but they still sell cars).
I keep getting the feeling some people have ulterior motives as opposed to helping others.
Trying to drag a smaller motorcycle manufacturer down looks to be constant.
Is there a reason for this?"
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MVetter are you still the Energica Sales Specialist at the Energica USA South San Francisco store? If you are still an Energica associate can you share any insight into Ideanomics plans? The Ideanomics SEC filing for 2023 Q3 has assets held for sale on page 18. It is public information. Energica is listed as one of the assets held for sale. Do you know what is happening?
Oh look a spam account.
edit- there is no store in SF, nor do I live or work in SF.
If there is one company that knows about spam it would be Ideanomics. Here it's selling its Chinese "Influencer" branch to invest in an American "Influence Portal".
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ideanomics-divests-grapevine-and-invests-in-hoobe-by-fnl-technologies-301273758.html
I wonder if other E-Moto companies should start investing in hired "Influencers" to promote their products over social media environments.
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edit- there is no store in SF, nor do I live or work in SF.
https://www.energicamotor.com/us/contacts/
ENERGICA SALES AND SERVICE CENTER
tel. +1 415 243-6355
170 S. Spruce, Unit D
South San Francisco, CA 94080
No retail dealer store, Sales and Service.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6493785,-122.4194212,3a,75y,195.7h,86.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT0FKqk4f-gMpmj0fNcQUQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6493785,-122.4194212,3a,75y,195.7h,86.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT0FKqk4f-gMpmj0fNcQUQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
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It's the service center. It's not a dealer nor does it have any kind of amenities like test rides. All bikes that come into North America pass through SF for inspection and service before being shipped out to dealers or customers. It is not a storefront. But I do recommend popping by and saying hi to the crew that work there! They're lovely people.
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So does being bought mean the same as going out of business? Has every motorcycle company that has been bought or sold...then been shuttered?
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So does being bought mean the same as going out of business? Has every motorcycle company that has been bought or sold...then been shuttered?
No, they are not going out of business. At this time, Ideanomics (Inergica's owners) is reporting that one of its holdings (Inergica) is a "held for sale business".
For review check out... https://www.fe.training/free-resources/accounting/assets-held-for-sale/ (https://www.fe.training/free-resources/accounting/assets-held-for-sale/)
Energica - 2023 first 9 months Energica had $6+m in revenue and $11+m loss according to the SEC filing.
Now some of the Bikes they sold were group sales to some Law Enforcement Agencies and they may have planned to take a loss on those sales for advertising purposes.
BMW has done this for many years with the California Highway Patrol. Bikes sold cheaply to help bump the sales numbers and to tie California into their brand.
Basically, Ideanomics has reported that this holding is not making money and they have it listed on their books as an investment they plan to sell.
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I felt bad when Victory was shut down by Polaris and took what used to be Brammo with it. That bike could have had a decent future in the market with a big company like Polaris backing it up. But I guess it was a financial looser for them during the two years that they owned it. And the bigger the public corporation the more likely they are to shut down a product that is not making a good profit. Just see how H-D operates. >:(
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This could go in the stock section of thei internet forum.
How about the tractor division Solectrac are they for sale as well or in a package with Energica. I might venture a guess they are worse on the profitability index and New Holland supposedly coming to market real soon.
I am not downloading something to try and figure it out myself.
Just a copy and paste from a thread over in the stock section.
Energica’s new parent company, Ideanomics, seeks to become a conglomerate of EV and related businesses. After investing heavily in the China EV market (and losing all of it), Ideanomics is now comprised primarily of a company that retrofits vehicles to hydrogen fuel cells or battery electric called US Hybrid, an electric tractor company called Solectrac, and WAVE, which is developing wireless charging for large trucks. Energica is another part of the conglomerate, though it has a separate shareholder agreement and management structure.
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Energica’s new parent company, Ideanomics, seeks to become a conglomerate of EV and related businesses. After investing heavily in the China EV market (and losing all of it), Ideanomics is now comprised primarily of a company that retrofits vehicles to hydrogen fuel cells or battery electric called US Hybrid, an electric tractor company called Solectrac, and WAVE, which is developing wireless charging for large trucks. Energica is another part of the conglomerate, though it has a separate shareholder agreement and management structure.
From the SEC filing.
"On July 25, 2023, we completed the sale of the Timios Operations for cash....
There was no material gain or loss on the sale of the Timios operations."
"...our business components Timios, US Hybrid, Tree Technologies, and China met the criteria for
classification as discontinued operations and are no longer presented as continuing operations."
"... business components Energica, Solectrac and Wave (the “held for sale businesses”) met the criteria
for classification as assets held for sale and discontinued operations."
"...if the sale of Energica, Wave Technologies, and Solectrac were complete and such
businesses were presented as discontinued operations. In this event, the balance sheet below would reflect the assets and liabilities of the parent company Ideanomics, Inc. and VIA Motors as the sole remaining continuing operations..."
My OP. It looks like Ideanomics is putting all its efforts into VIA Motors which is not doing well.
" The Company believes that its current level of cash and cash equivalents are not sufficient to fund continuing operations, including VIA, which acquisition was closed by the company on January 31, 2023. "
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Well well well. I'm shocked. Is it sinking in that all that great build quality and all the battery and features you get for the money is killing the company? That great first rate customer service isn't cheap.
I hope they survive but building niche bikes in a small high rent factory in Italy isn't the ideal prospect for the big boys.
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Well well well. I'm shocked. Is it sinking in that all that great build quality and all the battery and features you get for the money is killing the company? That great first rate customer service isn't cheap.
I hope they survive but building niche bikes in a small high rent factory in Italy isn't the ideal prospect for the big boys.
Did you get your Damon and your loaf of sourdough yet
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MVetter - I just joined. I received an email from you when I was interested in buying an Energica and I attached the signature from your email. It clearly states you are a Sales Specialist in South San Francisco at Energica USA. You have an Energica company email address. I just asked if you had any insignt into Ideanomics SEC filing about Assets Held For Sale on Page 18 of the Q3 Filing. How can you deny you work for Energica when you sent me an email that says you do? If you don't, why do you have an Energica email address and title? So far your answers are deflection - what about Lightning, what about Damon, what does sourdough sandwiches have to do with motorcycles - this is the Energica Forum - what about Energica? They build great motorcycles but what about a potential sale by Ideanomics?
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Morgan Vetter - Sales Specialist USA - Energica Motor Company Inc - 170 S. Spruce, Unit D, South San Francisco, CA 94080 - mvetter@enerigamotor.com
I did not make this up but you claim I did.
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;D Yeah if he ignores/deflects the comment you know the answer isn't one he wants to admit to.
As for me and Damon, my $24k is still safe and snug in my accout. No worries on my end at all.
You know the "private message" joke between me and Steven that I sent you that you posted for all but no big deal, that was me warning that Ideanomics was bad news for Energica and it hasn't taken long to be proven right.
Like I said I hope they survive as it's best for the community and the current owners but it wouldn't shock me if they folded either.
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Thanks Socal that really explains a lot.
But hey, not mad make some change on the side if you can.
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MVetter - I just joined. what about Lightning, what about Damon, what does sourdough sandwiches have to do with motorcycles - this is the Energica Forum - what about Energica? They build great motorcycles but what about a potential sale by Ideanomics?
Welcome to the Forum. New to electric member has spent much effort on here trying to get users to give their personal information to Damon to sign up for demo rides. The Damon bike just could not have the cells claimed and the weight claimed, and M Vetter was at the forefront of pointing that out. I wondered about their "factory" being so close to salt air and in a municipality that was online to modify itself for the 400-year high water event. In going from a Zero support group mostly to the Energica levels of participation there has been some side line amusement for users on here try and not let whether it is amusement or serious rivalry between these two go beyond amusement.
Fran
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Fran I mostly just ignore you as you say some pretty weird shit sometimes but I don't know how the hell anyone is going to take a test ride/drive in any thing and not tell the company who you are. They copy you license and you sign a waiver to test a Zero. Don't go aluminum foil hat conspiracy theory on encouraging people interested to sign up for a Damon test ride. Do it or don't I don't really care "I" don't work or get paid by Damon.
The bike's final weight was 480lbs by the way which was higher than the goal but less than an Ego.
Your water table fear is so ridiculous its not worth talking about. Better tear down all coastly cities around the world guys, Fran says it's not safe.
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I really like Energica - nice bikes - I have ridden a Zero - I think all electrics are great after years of riding IC bikes - I don't do a lot of road riding mainly off road so the Experia fit my needs. Then I get trashed by MVetter for saying he doesn't work for Energica in sales. Why call a potential customer a liar? But I don't hold that against the brand. Still interested in an electric Dual Sport. I had one simple question - what about Ideanomics Q3 SEC filing and plans for Energica that are on page 18 of the filing?
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Yes, brand new accounts definitely hit the ground running with an agenda like this one. Why do people do that?
But I digress. I've never claimed I don't work with Energica. I think of myself as outside sales. I was an overzealous owner. Energica reached out and said, "We've got way too many inquiries and not enough people able to follow up. Would you like to help?" and I said, "heck yeah lemme talk motorcycles with people"
The official email is a recent addition. I'm still using my personal phone and all my equipment is personal because I'm not a W2 employee. I suspect everyone in North America except Anne in NC has a footer with the SSF address on their emails. At best I'm a part-time contracted side gig. And I love doing it! What I don't love is being attacked by people with agendas. Fortunately I recognize this behavior as I've had years on this forum before any affiliation with any company. Do I have any insider info on Ideanomics? Nope. I barely know what they do. I talk bikes.
New2Elec has been, for many years, a source of entertainment due to the level of zealotry they constantly display. I saved one of the better quotes where he compared himself as a proud lion fending off the hyenas that dared question Damon. It was truly bizarre which is the best kind of bizarre. King of Moving Goalposts.
I have also witnessed the absolute hell that Lightning put my friend Jeff through after he paid the full amount for his Strike up front. 3 years passed and he never got what he paid for. Sold it at a loss and now has quit motorcycling entirely. Which sucks. I fought for him every chance I got and watched how they bullied, accused, and gaslit him. And when someone goes on the attack the way that's been displayed in this and other threads I know exactly what has transpired because it's a repeating pattern, and easily identifiable at at that. It's really shitty when people go on unprovoked personal attacks.
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That's an amazing story!! It's like when the Secret Service hired Frank Abagnail in their check fraud department.
I officially offer my services as a multiday touring consultant. I will seek a salary of 1 dozen doughnuts, 32 ounces of black coffee, and 67 hobo dollars for each person that takes a multi day road trip on an Energica Experia because they saw me do it.
8) I guess that's all they'll be able to afford to pay me once the financial shit hits the fan. lol.
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I really like Energica - nice bikes - I have ridden a Zero - I think all electrics are great after years of riding IC bikes - I don't do a lot of road riding mainly off road so the Experia fit my needs.
The Experia isn't a "Dual Sport" or off road bike...it's a road bike along the lines of the Ducati Multistrada and BMW S1000XR....neither of those are "Dual Sport" bikes either. I also own a BMW S1000XR and I can't see it doing any sort of off road work other than a well groomed dirt road.
Smithy.
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Thank you - appreciate the info on the Experia.
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How is asking about Ideanomics a personal attack against MVetter? How is sharing an Energica company email address that MVetter sent a personal attack? After MVetter claimed he does not work with / for / assist / help / volunteer / whatever with Energica and then admit a connection - how is that a personal attack? What does your friend Jeff and Lightning 3 years ago or Damon and sourdough sandwiches have to do with the Q3 Ideanomics SEC filing and Energica? The Ideanomics Q3 SEC filing is public information not an attack.
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Multiple parties were being responded to. I did not say you were attacking me.
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Did you get your Damon and your loaf of sourdough yet
What the heck is this about? I thought the discussion was about Energica being listed for sale.
Is this a personal attack or a Red Herring?
Red Herring Fallacy
Also known as: misdirection, smokescreen, clouding the issue, beside the point, and the Chewbacca defense.
A Red Herring argument is one that changes the subject, distracting the audience from the real issue to focus on something else where the speaker feels more comfortable and confident.
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What the heck is this about?
It's an inside joke you needn't concern yourself with.
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Your Honor I move that all defamatory statements made against "THE" Future of Motorcycling, Damon Motorcycles made by Morgan the undercover Energica agent be stricken from existence as they were all clearly made out of jealousy and fear of a clearly superior product even if it isn't for sale just yet.
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Like I said. A source of entertainment.
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Only you ever thought it was anything but that for me.
Pointless trash talking for fun.
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If you can't successfully convey logic to the delusional, then you might as well have some fun with them!
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Ideanomics 2023 Q3 SEC filing dated 24 November 2023 from the Ideanomics website.
https://investors.ideanomics.com/sec-filings
Ideanomics business plan for Divestment of Assets - Pages 16 through 19 - see page 18 for Energica Asset Held for Sale - any thoughts?
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You say any thoughts,
I can't find page 18, I see 25 lines each line appears to be a title and then a document that one can get in various formats, then that document has page numbers.
IDEX has a 52 week trading range of from a high of 31.25 and low of 1.71 trading right now at 1.8 even. It does not appear to pay dividends.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/IDEX?p=IDEX&.tsrc=fin-srch
I also see over valued on a bar type display.
As to Energica the motorcycle brand that supposedly has a seperate share holder agreement. They gave all of New england to a dealership in New York near the Hudson river. Then I found out they have a dealer in Massachussets that is noted for having a dyno. I assume this means high performance motorcycles. The biggert tractor solotrac has is smaller than what I desire and is marketed for the vinyards of California. I would hope the two brands could stay together and make produce more intresting to my uses.
What do they have on the drawing board? Could be a bargain like maybe fire sale, liquidation auction coming?
Edit what I did see in the one document from about place 18 on the linked stated common stock. Part of the problem with stock is if you own common stock the company can issue more prefered stock. Like GE did with/to Berkshire Hathaway.
Edit the second time, note the shares held by insiders and the shares held by institutions is NA.
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Socal its anybodies guess really.
Who wants them?
An Italian gas bike company to cover their electric butts so to speak?
Maybe Triumph since their attempt at electric sucked.
To me you have to bring the cost of making them way down or its just a hole to throw money in unless someone needs an EV division for regulations.
We'll see how it goes.
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What’s more expensive to an established manufacturer, sinking a few million to keep Energica going or doing what Harley-Davidson did with Livewire? Energica or shouldering an entire electric division of MotoGP along with its drivetrains and bikes like Ducati? Energica or Triumph quietly dedicating staff for years to show off a concept bike that might not even be relevant to any eventual production bike?
The point is not whether Energica will turn a profit anytime soon, it’s whether any of the many interests that don’t want to get blindsided by electric bikes consider it cheaper to buy a proven make like Energica than to try to do it all themselves, and they would be fools to choose the latter. The only way I can see Energica being allowed to disintegrate is if the current downturn in financing means that every interested party is in a bunker mentality, but normally that just means that some savvy buyer gets a great deal.
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Hate seeing any company have problems. No pleasure in the misfortunes of others. The livelihood of employees, dealers, vendors, their families, investors are at stake. And all the years of effort of the company visionaries lost. I hope they survive and prosper. The reality is Ideanomics has to do what they must for their shareholders.
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What I see most likely is CRP
takes buys back ownership, I don't think they have ever been happy with the american cost cutting approach to investment
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For what it is worth.
IF he works for Energica, Morgan is probably viewed as a lowly sales person.
Typically high level decisions etc are NOT 'vetted' through low level people, and often the lower life forms are left swimming in the dark, until, the day, whatever happens, with few clues to what just happened.
translation, I doubt he's sitting at the round table with the CEO and company, deciding their next decisions. Even if he WAS, Id bet he is not allowed to really say ANYTHING, because, as mentioned, America has some fucked laws, and that could be seen as insider trading. Ask Martha Stewart about that.
Just because a company is up for sale?? does not mean they are going under. Smaller companies that are held by bigger companies as part of an 'investment group' often get traded.
Energica is still doing work for folks, their warranty work is still top notch, as is their customer service. I would think, from past observations of others, that a company getting ready to go out of business, would be doing pretty much nothing, trying desparately to hold onto whatever money they could to show on the books.
How many times have sports players been sold ' (yes in a way they ARE a company) yet still played and went on to fame and glory? How many times have bigger companies been sold or mergered. Banks do it all the time, the little ones get gobbled up by the bigger ones. Hell just look at Mortgage companies, mine changed hands like 4 fucking times on me, and I had absolutely ZERO control on that, just had to make damned sure I put the money in every month.
Ok, this is getting long but my take is. Being sold does not mean going out of business. However to be honest, I do have some odd gut feelings on some of the ways they ARE operating here in the US. Maybe they ARE losing their ass here, and the sale is a way to put adult supervision in charge of the place, a way to right the ship, and put them back on the right course, so the people doing all the work there, can continue to make good bikes, etc etc.
But let's be brutally bare here.
Their advertising in the US well, it sucks. THAT does not help a company.
What is with their wanting to buy all their old bikes back at insane prices??? THAT is not something a going out of business company would do! Pay MORE than something is worth, to do..... what?????with it ????
I just had warranty work done on my bike and the service was impeccable to be honest. A going out of business company is not going to cater to the customer like that if they are soon to be gone, because again, they'd need to keep every penny they can on the books. If they were going away it'd be.. fuck the customer we're outta here!
Morgan is a salesman, IF that, NOT their advertiser, lawyer, or financial guru. Asking him for info is probably not the best person, as he'd be kept in the dark as well if something was crawling up the toilet pipe at them.
Maybe one can write / call the company and inquire what is happening? If someone can provide me a phone number Id be happy to call and ask, even an overseas one works. That dont' mean im going to get the skinny, just that I'd try.
Aaron
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I agree with Specter , How many times has Chrysler been bought out by other businesses, I believe they are still around better than ever.
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How many know that the US Post Office, is a part of UPS? They bought into them years ago in one of the first, were failing, endeavors to keep them from going tits up. UPS delivers a lot of fedex products and vise versa. Granted the post office is a HORRIBLE example because being government labor, they don't give a shit about success, just union goonery and bribes.
Chrysler is another one as mentioned, still here making good cars.
also fwiw, the whole money thing, the US government foolishly threw Billions if not TRIllions by now into the whole green con game. There is a lot of money to be made off them!! Companies are at the trough right now, good, bad, or ugly, they are getting unca sammies benajmins as fast as they can! Maybe this 'move' puts them under 'American' ownership, and now qualifies them for the 7500 dollar rebate from unca sammy .. a move that would be TREMENDOUS as an incentive to buy one! While it would not really make it 'affordable' the impression sure would be there!
We don't know, what we don't know, and who's up to what, is anyones guess.
Time will tell.
Aaron
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Um - and where does 'Energica For Sale' fit in to your diatribe?
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Um - and where does 'Energica For Sale' fit in to your diatribe?
I was wondering the same thing but was afraid to ask.
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IDEX has a 52 week trading range of from a high of 31.25 and low of 1.71 trading right now at 1.8 even. It does not appear to pay dividends.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/IDEX?p=IDEX&.tsrc=fin-srch
As to Energica the motorcycle brand that supposedly has a seperate share holder agreement.
It would be interesting to get some documentation about "separate shareholder agreements".
Do you have any URL that documents this?
Also, it has not been reviewed, but Ideanomics had a 125 Reverse Stock Split this last August. I.E. If you bought 125 shares, you now own 1.
For example.
If you invested one million $100,000,00 one year ago @ $34.00 = 3125 Shares.
In August 125 Reverse Stock Split - 3125/125 = 25 shares now
25 shares today @ 1.80 per share. = $405.
Starting with $100,000,00 and ending with $405 in a year is not a good year.
Yahoo Finance
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/IDEX?p=IDEX
Reverse Stock Split
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ideanomics-announces-reverse-stock-split-301907924.html
Now searching and trying to review Energica's financials so we can get an idea of what it might sell for.
Apollo
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Thanks Apollo, I posted in the EV stock section that it was just a 25-1 reverse split. The little daily spike in the price at the end of the day is likely short covers.
Here is the joke clip I sent Steven when Ideanomics bought Energica. If some of you didn't know Shane McMahon of the WWE is the CEO of Ideanomics. This is the direction I predicted the company to go.
https://youtu.be/bWI2l4ZbdA4?t=32
Now IF Energica gets bought up by another company then of course they are ok because they have a new daddy with money to support their costly habits.
The problem is will there be anyone who wants them.
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AS to the reverse split, strange I mentioned GE back a page or so they did that eight to one a year or two ago and spun off Wabtec in a manner it counted as income, not even capital gains, and by the time April 15 came around it was down to 2/3 of what I owed income on, and did it late so I needed an amended tax form. So not a good sign.
On the bright side Husqvarna motorecycles which I believe hopefully correctly is really a recurring 7 year deal to use the name from a Sweedish entity was unloaded by BMW to Perrier mobility group for like $1. and I still get the same parts either available or not available as before for the Cagiva era stuff. That may have been somewhat labor union in Italy which is another angle.
Ktm might take it for $1 Ktm is I believe, now 51% Piere mobility 49% Bajaj auto but Cf moto ownes 2% of Piere mobility.
Zero CEO with candy backgreound, IDEX with WWE previously WWF CEO from my home state of CT. Kind of off topic but now WWE and UFC have merged 49,51% respectively. And Harley Davidson has been observed to buy center ring advertising in the beat them when down until pulled away by a referee.
Oh, the highest volumes seem to have been when IDEX went from around 3 to around 2.
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With interest rates so high right now it is a tough time for anyone to buy anything. I wouldn't be surprised if that also applies to big money corporate purchases, too.
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With interest rates so high right now it is a tough time for anyone to buy anything. I wouldn't be surprised if that also applies to big money corporate purchases, too.
So high right now probably should/could be edited to no longer as artifically induced low.
The spread of when you are positive vs negative is amazingly larger now. It was a saying bankers pay 3% loan at 6% and go home at 3PM.
Now to borrow against a stock portfolio ie margin account it costs 7.75% (less slightly when over six figures) and pay 0.8% if your dividends sit in the brokerage acct.
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I was doing a bit of poking around, trying trying to find out some info on all of this. Just to compare I looked at a few of the e bike companies to get an idea how they all are doing in this shitty economy. ie is energica on the way out, or are ALL of them, having the same fate.
It looks like Lightning motors lost 800k this year as well.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1646406/000166919123001110/xslC_X01/primary_doc.xml
and if they only sold a small handful of bikes, that's an awful lot of loss per unit.
so it appears that everyone is getting kicked in the nuts by the sock puppet Biden and his globalist handlers trying to destroy the worlds economy.
So with that being said, WHAT are the respective companies planning to do to reverse the money bleed? What are your plans to start turning a profit? New ownership is a potential step in the right direction. Let someone who maybe has some business savvy start running it, instead of a head butt champion might be helpful.
Again, for sale does not mean going out of business.
Now that the losses are 'official' ... what are the plans to fix that?
out of curiosity, how many bikes did Energica sell last year, across all their brands?
Be interesting to sit in on a board of directors meeting for all the companies to hear what their plan is to fix this
Aaron
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I was doing a bit of poking around, trying trying to find out some info on all of this. Just to compare I looked at a few of the e bike companies to get an idea how they all are doing in this shitty economy. ie is energica on the way out, or are ALL of them, having the same fate.
It looks like Lightning motors lost 800k this year as well.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1646406/000166919123001110/xslC_X01/primary_doc.xml
and if they only sold a small handful of bikes, that's an awful lot of loss per unit.
so it appears that everyone is getting kicked in the nuts by the sock puppet Biden and his globalist handlers trying to destroy the worlds economy.
So with that being said, WHAT are the respective companies planning to do to reverse the money bleed? What are your plans to start turning a profit? New ownership is a potential step in the right direction. Let someone who maybe has some business savvy start running it, instead of a head butt champion might be helpful.
Again, for sale does not mean going out of business.
Now that the losses are 'official' ... what are the plans to fix that?
out of curiosity, how many bikes did Energica sell last year, across all their brands?
Be interesting to sit in on a board of directors meeting for all the companies to hear what their plan is to fix this
Aaron
Political commentary aside, are you talking about e bike companies as in e bicycle, or e motorcycle?
Because looking at companies in the bicycle space would not translate to powersports/EV market. The entire bicycle industry, including e bike direct to consumer brands, were riding high during the pandemic due to both huge uptick in demand, and constrained supply chain. For DTC, they could name their price, and in the retail segment, dealers were putting in huge orders to offset partial fulfilment issues just to some product to sell.
Then the pandemic ended resulting in a huge drop in demand, and the supply chain freed up at the same time, so both the manufacturers and dealers ended up with a glut in inventory and nobody to sell it too. Everyone from the big guys (Trek, Specialized) and the DTC brands, in both e-bike and analog bike markets, have been running 30% plus off sales pretty much all year just to try to move inventory, which for some of these companies does not leave much if any margin.
I think it makes much more sense to compare Enrgica to peers in the powersports and automotive space, EV or ICE.
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I am talking motorcycle, sometimes people say I am going for a bike ride, meaning their motorcycle, not a bicycle.
last I checked lightning considered themselves motorCYCLE manufacturers, not e bike manu's, although we have not seen one yet really on the streets. so putting them as a comparison WOULD be fair.
aaron
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... although we have not seen one yet really on the streets.
aaron
I will have to find what city people live in so I can start parading around so it will seen "on the streets".
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get a good number for a towing company that does bikes.
Aaron
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get a good number for a towing company that does bikes.
Aaron
Why, do you live in a swamp?
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No but if your bike breaks down it's nice to have a number handy to get towed. Many regular towing companies won't do motorcycles.
If you are going to be showing off all over the USA with your new bike, might want to get an interstate company. I wonder if AAA does bikes too? or maybe your new bike comes with a towing warranty on it?
Aaron
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AAA does tow bikes, but you need to specify "flat bed towing" when you call them or they may send a regular truck that cannot accommodate bikes.
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AAA does tow bikes, but you need to specify "flat bed towing" when you call them or they may send a regular truck that cannot accommodate bikes.
Thanks. I have AAA so I will check to ensure flatbed towing is available.
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I don't know if it's okay to reference businesses in posts so if it's not, let me know and I'll delete this.
I've stopped accepting automotive flatbeds from AAA to tow my motorcycles after having two bikes damaged due to incorrect application of the straps, not to mention the thought of them dragging my non-functioning bike up the flatbed. Here in the Bay Area, I always insist on JL Motorcycle Towing and Transport. They're a AAA tow/transport that only tows motorcycles and other powersports vehicles. Their trucks are designed specifically for motorcycles and they have trailers to tow side by sides. I usually have to argue and stand firm with the AAA rep, explaining that if they send an automotive flatbed I will refuse the tow and they'll only end up having to dispatch another company anyway.
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Agree with BigPoppa there.
Just because it's a flatbed does NOT mean it's set up to tow a bike properly. If they don't have the tie down points / equipment set properly, you are going to get damage.
Typically a flat bed is sent out with ONE person to operate it. ie the tow truck driver. he hooks the car then drags it onto the bed.
so if that guy is operating the controls, who's sitting on the bike, keeping it upright during it's drag up the ramp? Unless it's something like a Tommygate setup, which you'd have to specifically request, that's going to be a problem.
Aaron