ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: DonTom on October 05, 2023, 08:37:28 PM
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And it needs it. I could not find even one CCS DCFC station in Yuba, City, CA that would work with my Energica Experia out of all of them which were tried in that town. Same with Dave who I was riding with, on his Rebelle. So then we go down to Plumas Lake (https://www.plugshare.com/location/483236) and have the same issue. See our 20, Aug check-ins.
We ended up charging with a J-plug here. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/213273) That got us to a CCS station in Sacramento that worked. We got back home after midnight.
Anyway, I received this email today (https://mailchi.mp/efdf71fe961d/global-charging-compatibility?e=ca5c53e74f) which says these issues will be improved, which includes our slow charging (8 KW) when Tesla's Magic Dock is used.
"New Firmware 43 Release enhances Energica fast charging compatibility in U.S.
October 5, 2023"
-Don- Reno, NV
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What is required to charge the Energica at a Tesla charging dock?
Plug adapter?
Account setup?
Sorry if this was posted elsewhere already. Thanks for the information.
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What is required to charge the Energica at a Tesla charging dock?
Plug adapter?
Account setup?
Sorry if this was posted elsewhere already. Thanks for the information.
There are very few locations (so far) where Tesla has the Magic Dock. Only two in the entire state of CA. I used the one in Placerville, CA. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/319323) The adapter is part of the Tesla Supercharger, so you need no other adapters to use it.
But you may want to get on this waiting list, (https://evadept.com/tesla-supercharger-to-ccs-adapter-guide/#subscription_form) but I think it is uncertain now if it will ever be available as it will not be needed if Tesla adds more Magic Docks. And they have been. Look about halfway down the page where it says "Tesla to CCS 1 Adapter".
What you will need is the Tesla App (you can download from the Play store) and then you have to find "Charge your non-Tesla" and set up an account. If you already own a Tesla (as I do) you're ready to go without setting up the account.
It is a little tricky to find "charge your non-Tesla" in the app. But if you get the app and cannot find it, I can explain how to get to it. They do NOT make it obvious in the app.
-Don- Reno, NV
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The Only way to get FW43 is go to a dealer?
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When I got my 2023 ss9 in December of 2022 I was unable to charge 9 out of 10 tries anywhere. Now I am able to 100% of the time at the ones I use EVGO, Chargepoint and EA. There is still one in Conifer Co. that didnt work 3 weeks ago but I could not be happier.
I also, yesterday, picked up a 2020 Zero sr/s premium with 900mi on it. It was a fraction of new cost and could not pass it up. Did a 76 mile ride home from the dealer and loved it. Not that it will replace my ss9 but its an enjoyable bike.
Joe
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https://mailchi.mp/efdf71fe961d/global-charging-compatibility?e=fb641664fc
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The Only way to get FW43 is go to a dealer?
I assume so. I don't think Energicas have OTA updates.
-Don- Reno, NV
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The dealer is the only one who can update your Energica.
it should be free.
If something tanks in the process, they'll need to 'redo' it essentially, and it takes a special reader etc etc to do.
If THEY F your bike up, it's on them to get it unbricked.
If YOU F it up,all bets are off.
On the tesla's. You will need an adapter to go from a tesla charging cable to a CCS1 port.
The adapters are already available, just check E bay. They DO work for the destination chargers. I have one
The main reason they don't work for the super chargers is because you as a non tesla person have no way to turn the thing on, (I believe it talks using near field RFID) directly to your car when you pull up, or bluetooth or some sort of comms.
I am thinking that when you get the dongle to convert the tesla cord to a ccs1 cord to plug into your bike for charging, your phone will be needed to give the signal to the charger to turn it on, since there is nothing radiating on your bike that can do that. Unless energica turns their bluetooth back on, in the bike like the older ones, if it even still exists!
Either way, having more places to charge is always a good thing.
Many times now I been planning a trip of a few hundred miles or so and so many of the chargers are either tesla super chargers - currently unusable. or J plugs, - takes HOURS to charge, so not really a good match. It will be really good if they can open these S chargers up for us.
on that though, is 75 Amps the max the bike will take still for charging? It'd be great if we could push 100 amp, and maybe get a charge in ... in around half an hour. that's .. in theory 20 to 80 percent charge, in say half an hour. Each persons use model is going to be different. Maybe Energica can do something where like a microwave oven, it starts out at a very high power and trickles down as heat builds. If it's cool start it at 100 amps and bring it down as temps rise. If it's already running warn because it's august in florida, ok fine, then start it at it's 75 or 60 amps or whatever. But having the ability to charge faster would be an awesome boost for the Energica Brand name. when you look at the amps this bike can pull off the battery continuous, supposedly, when you are driving in 'spirited mode' that extra 25 should be .. not really an issue.
There is a lot of great potential here on BOTH sides of this coin, the charger people's side AND Energica's side as well for vast improvements. I sure hope someone will look into it seriously.
I can offer guidance / suggestions / consulting, reach out if interested. No charge, I want to see this brand succeed so I have service on my bike for years to come and I don't end up owning a dinosaur.
Aaron
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Thanks for uploading the communication @DonTom. Energica in the USA are very communicative. Very good that Energica updated DCFC connectivity and speed. @Specter: I still would prefer sustained 75A charging instead of more current. Please note that heat development due to internal resistance in the battery is a square of the current (P=I^2 x R).
I do find that Energica use big words regarding their sophistication and technology. I actually find the words somewhat uncomfortable, given the things in sophistication that they cannot get right, like properly managing a service symbol indication, correct temperature indication, applying (enough) grease in headstock bearings and so on.
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Big words are uncomfortable? How about small words and big pictures, will that help you understand better? Im sure their graphic designers would love that as well!!
If they could push it to 100 Amps then it would also handle 75 amps by the same virtue.
TBH the only time I have ever really seen it taper down the charge current significantly is towards the top end of the charge cycle. Id presume to get a better reading of the actual cell voltage w/o the charging bias on them, and also to stretch the charge out a little bit, to give the batteries a few more minutes to balance better.
Maybe Morgan or Desmoni can help here, since they would have first hand knowledge, at what temperature does the charge actually start to significantly taper down? It's probably in the yellow but how far into the yellow? By significantly I mean, if you are charging at 75 amps, reducing to 73 amps is really not significant, reducing to 70 or less, would be.
How hard DOES charging heat the batteries up anyways. By their claims, and specs, it seems running at just 30 KW would pull 100 amps, which is a walk in the park really, when you consider the bike is rated at what 100 plus KW continuous? Granted running at 130 mph is going to get a bit of wind cooling on the battery, but thats not that much in reality. They really are pretty inefficient in their cooling design when you look at, being air cooled on an essentially finless exterior case.
Aaron
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The dealer is the only one who can update your Energica.
it should be free.
If something tanks in the process, they'll need to 'redo' it essentially, and it takes a special reader etc etc to do.
If THEY F your bike up, it's on them to get it unbricked.
If YOU F it up,all bets are off. Aaron
This is fine if you live near a dealer/service centre. We have an Aussie owner of an SS9 and he lives ~3500km away from the nearest dealer...what happens there if these "updates" are a requirement or become mandatory to keep warranty valid.??
Smithy.
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Hey guys just wanted to let y'all know what the actual improvements were to Firmware version 43 in terms of DC Fast Charging.
- First off, yes, better compatibility with the Tesla SuperChargers. For now that really only applies to Magic Dock ones like the units found in Scotts Valley. They will correctly give full power to the bikes now.
- The bike now has a longer 'timeout' while doing the DCFC handshake. This will generally help new owners. What I mean by timeout and handshake is you now have a much longer period to start the charge process after plugging in. As many of you are probably aware the DC stations all say something like, "please plug in first" but we know that if we do that the bike will turn itself off before the charge session starts properly. This leads to confusion and frustration. I'm at the point where, just out of habit, I always start the charge session first and then plug in as the very last thing I do. To those of us already doing this there'll be no change. But to new owners this should greatly alleviate stress.
- And for Experia owners, they know how cluttered the new dash/screen is so there's a new layout called "CLEAN" which just offers a cleaner, more stripped down simple layout at a glance while you use your bike. Should be less confusing.
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Any chance of less bugs in the new FW?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Of course there's a chance.
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Of course there's a chance.
Yeah, and in either direction. But it's worth a try.
I wonder if the new FW is already available at the USA Energica dealers. Perhaps I will go ask sometime this week.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Yes that is why the email was sent out.
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Of course there's a chance.
Yeah, and in either direction. But it's worth a try.
I wonder if the new FW is already available at the USA Energica dealers. Perhaps I will go ask sometime this week.
-Don- Auburn, CA
It's available here in Aus...my dealer contacted all the Aussie owners early last week via email. They even sent me a copy of the "release notes" showing what's new/changed etc.
Smithy.
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It's available here in Aus...my dealer contacted all the Aussie owners early last week via email. They even sent me a copy of the "release notes" showing what's new/changed etc.
Smithy.
Is this update also for my 2020 Esse Esse 9- ?
How long does the new FW update take? Any chance I can wait while they are doing it, or will I need an appointment?
Anyway, in a few days I will go visit my local Energica dealer.
Here in Auburn, I only have my 2020 SS9- right now. My Experia is in Reno, so I will have to ride it back here to get the update.
I came here yesterday on my DSR/X. I really should have taken the Experia.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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It's *always* good practice to schedule ahead/make an appointment. There is no downside.
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It's *always* good practice to schedule ahead/make an appointment. There is no downside.
The downside is it requires a ride there and back from somebody besides myself.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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no that's what scheduling means. You time it so you go there when you were planning to go there for something else and kill two birds with one stone.
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Anyone knows how long the service time for the update takes on an Experia? Not sure if the update can be done via OBD2 but I assume not. So the fairing has to come off to even have access to the ECU (well that takes 15mins max off an on again).
And flashing the Firmware update?
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Anyone knows how long the service time for the update takes on an Experia? Not sure if the update can be done via OBD2 but I assume not?
I would assume the opposite, but I really do not know.
FW updates are expected. They are not going to make doing such overly complex.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Anyone knows how long the service time for the update takes on an Experia? Not sure if the update can be done via OBD2 but I assume not. So the fairing has to come off to even have access to the ECU (well that takes 15mins max off an on again).
And flashing the Firmware update?
When I had the XXX.42 Experia update done a few months ago, it took just short of an hour to complete...and was done on a laptop via the OBD-II port. The XXX.43 update looks to have a lot of changes and possibly more complex but that doesn't mean it will take longer....it's just a big bunch of zeros and ones.
Smithy.
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The bike shop is NOT going to be in any sort of rush to get it done. Especially if they are being paid by the hour to do it.
I think I might wait a few months, hear what others have to say, before I get mine flashed. That way if there are any major waah boo hoo's about it, I can wait for the fix /next one. TBH I kind of like what I got now and don't really see any urgent need to get updated. Even charging it's nice and sweet that I have seen so far.
Aaron
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Aaron, I agree. Went to my dealer last week for the 30k service and he offered me to update to FW43 which I declined having the dissapointing FW42 update in mind.
He told me, another feature of the new FW is a warning note if you accidentially stay on the footbrake for longer than a minute or so. Nice to have but not worth the risk.
If ain't broke, don't fix.
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I think it'd be problematic to push the charge rate higher tbh, the thermal management just isn't there and isn't going to be with current battery tech unless you want to make a big range sacrifice. I actually leave mine on 65A unless I know it's a one-charge day.
I can confirm that charging the battery heats it up a lot. I've done some hefty days on mine and I generally assume that after the first charge things are going to just get progressively slower. There are various factors that affect it but generally speaking with the Ego platform big battery once the heat is in it takes some time to get out again, the small battery is better (but gets less dissipation time) and I have no idea how the Experia fares given it has a newer purpose designed battery.
Usually the battery will go yellow either near the end of the first charge (if I'm unlucky/ate my reserve) or sometime during the second but once it's yellow it'll slow down half way through every subsequent charge until eventually it's yellow when you get there. I found red is actually really hard to achieve but maybe your climate/riding habits might differ. Stopping for an extended period while not charging does help if the bike isn't stuck out on a sun-baked parking lot. Anecdotally riding in cold weather can actually improve charging performance in my experience.
The worst for me was when I flubbed my trip plan home from Berlin and ended up on an autobahn haul all the way to Oberhausen, 55 minute estimates from 20ish to 80 at the *start* of the charge. That was only 550km or so, I've done that in miles on other trips and had much less problematic charging because the type of riding was difficult.
Fun fact, my VFR also overheated really very badly on the home run from Berlin so I guess we'll call it evens between BEV and ICE.
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I had the 43 version installed on my experia Friday. No issues so far. Improvements seen were the ability to adjust the heated grip level, on the fly. The cruise control adjustment screen (while underway) was updated. You can see the version in the diagnostic screen now. Haven't tried a dcfc but hopefully will get a chance before winter.
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I have yet to push my battery into the red, even when WOT for about 10 straight miles, pulled over, motor and inverter were nice and toasty but battery not so bad, was yellow though. Charged it back up and even then, never really felt the battery get really hot. That was the only time TBH the motor got hot enough that you probably didn't want to touch it. As far as performance, it met it's top speed, maybe a bit less ballsy getting to it but she ran fine. I never really seen any major performance declines unless my charge went below 20 percent, then it essentially put itself into rain mode. otherwise, even between 20 to 40 percent, she still took off like a scalded cat when you hit the throttle.
The only real overheating that I DO see is the stupid eyeball gets burn the shit out of your hand hot when left in the sun and charging. The problem is the plastic they used on it, it converts the sunlight into longwave radiation, ie HEAT and then traps it under there, which I can not see being any kind of good for the electronics under the cover. Maybe a small fan under there? something would help.
Aaron
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I had the 43 version installed on my experia Friday. No issues so far. Improvements seen were the ability to adjust the heated grip level, on the fly. The cruise control adjustment screen (while underway) was updated. You can see the version in the diagnostic screen now. Haven't tried a dcfc but hopefully will get a chance before winter.
Was it free of charge? There was some odd wording in the most recent email from Energica that included something about "dealers hourly rate"... last thing I want to do is get into an argument around being charged for an update to "fix" their buggy firmware.
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Was it free of charge? There was some odd wording in the most recent email from Energica that included something about "dealers hourly rate"... last thing I want to do is get into an argument around being charged for an update to "fix" their buggy firmware.
Yeah, that was the way I also felt about that email. I expect we are charged for their time to do the upgrade. But is it really an upgrade or really just a bug fix? Seems to me it should be considered a bug fix.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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If you go in just to get your bike flashed, Id expect they'd probably charge you an hours labor, for the hours labor they use to do it.
If you go in to get other stuff done, I bet you should be able to talk your dealer into doing it no charge unless some shit goes bad, since you are there anyways for other stuff you are paying for, and they can just plug it in while the mechanic is doing your 30k maintenance, or fixing your brake pedal, or whatever else.
That would be the most logical way, however Id suggest you call and ASK your dealer first how they will handle it for you, and not just assume it will be one way or another. In other words, an appointment is probably the best way, that way it's affirmed, and they are expecting you and know WHY all you are there.
Aaron
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If you go in just to get your bike flashed, Id expect they'd probably charge you an hours labor, for the hours labor they use to do it.
If you go in to get other stuff done, I bet you should be able to talk your dealer into doing it no charge unless some shit goes bad, since you are there anyways for other stuff you are paying for, and they can just plug it in while the mechanic is doing your 30k maintenance, or fixing your brake pedal, or whatever else.
That would be the most logical way, however Id suggest you call and ASK your dealer first how they will handle it for you, and not just assume it will be one way or another. In other words, an appointment is probably the best way, that way it's affirmed, and they are expecting you and know WHY all you are there.
Aaron
When I last talked to my dealer, they said it has been taking hours to do the FW flash, so I'd need to drop the bike off. Definitely don't want to be charged for however slow the process is.
that being said, I do have some documented faults with the bike (including the unidentified fault and loss of power), so I can likely get the flash done under warranty while they are diagnosing the logs for the other issues. You would think FW updates would be covered for the warranty period however...
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I know, especially if it's fixing bugs or flaws. Even asthetics or performance enhancers, if it's still under warranty, flash it for free. It's part of the overall service id think.
Several hours? Holy shit, that's not good, sounds like there is something going on that needs some babysitting. Hopefully there are no major issues with the new flash. TBH I have seen this with many complicated systems, shit has to install, then it has to think thru some crap, calculate through some other shit, figure out new numbers, reflash those, see what it shakes out, re calculate, and go through algo's that are just obnoxious just to get to a final output. It's not just, throw this new software on, stuff has to be integrated.
GE was notorious for that as well..
Aaron
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Definitely don't want to be charged for however slow the process is.
If they are not trying to give you the shaft, the charge should be for less than five minutes for a three-hour upload. They should have no need to be near the bike after it once starts to FW upload. They should be free to work on somebody's bike else during that time. That is unless motorcycle mechanics became lawyers, who often charge many people at the same time.
-Don- Reno, NV
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NO shop is going to charge you 5 minutes. If you are lucky you may find one that charges 15 minute intervals, to 30 minute intervals at the very minimum, but even them have an hour minimum charge.
Lawyers, charge many people at the same time and charge those people many times for the same thing. Let's throw in a few extra phone calls and e mails to pad the balance, I need a vacation next week. Went thru a divorce and man did that scumbag try to raze me. Kept track of all the calls, e mails etc and asked him, provide proof of what you are charging me for, and NO im NOT paying you to do that, show proof or we are going to have a problem. Oh look, a miracle, my bill went down by about 40 percent.
Aaron
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Mine was flashed while I waited. No charge (although the paperwork initially had a charge of 1/2hr, I questioned it, in the end no charge. It did not take hours. Maybe 30 mins total?
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Mine was flashed while I waited. No charge (although the paperwork initially had a charge of 1/2hr, I questioned it, in the end no charge. It did not take hours. Maybe 30 mins total?
Does anybody know if this update is for all years of all models for Energicas?
-Don- Cedar City, Utah
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If you guys really want to talk about improvements to DCFC could someone ride an Experia through a few cm of standing water and report back if you can still charge? I have to let the Ribelle sit an hour or so first when that happens.
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Mine was flashed while I waited. No charge (although the paperwork initially had a charge of 1/2hr, I questioned it, in the end no charge. It did not take hours. Maybe 30 mins total?
Does anybody know if this update is for all years of all models for Energicas?
-Don- Cedar City, Utah
I believe it covers "all" models...but I suspect it's primarily for changes to the Experia, the release notes seem to point that way at least.
Smithy.
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If you guys really want to talk about improvements to DCFC could someone ride an Experia through a few cm of standing water and report back if you can still charge? I have to let the Ribelle sit an hour or so first when that happens.
I have never had a problem with riding thru standing water stonewolf. Florida we get caught in the rain like it or not and there are a lot of standing water bodies out here. I hit one 'puddle' more like a fucking lake under the viaduct at about 35 mph and it was probably 2 to 3 inches deep. Talk about a come to jesus moment. About 5 minutes later was home and in the garage and the bike started charge just fine. FWIW my back was soaked from the water slinging so im sure all the good parts of the bike got wet too. Ive also had the bike out in the rain when it was parked here and there, and rode home in the crap (slowly though, probably never exceeding 40 mph or so) and never a charge issue.
what is the error it is giving you?
when you lift the seat is the charging stuff right u nder the seat still dry?
Aaron
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I'm talking more riding through a flooded section of road. I had a problem a few weeks back where I had planned a weekend away and it ended up being torrential rain the whole time, I got soaked, bike got soaked, had to ride through a flooded road and it put spray up everywhere. Underseat was all dry, nothing visually amiss but the bike errored whenever I tried to plug it in (couldn't get a read on the error though, no on-screen message, just the triangle that goes away once you cycle power). Left it an hour (still pissing rain) and then it was magicly fine.
I've gotten the bike wet plenty before (getting rained out has been a theme this year >:( ) but water getting up somewhere it's not meant to be is the only thing that made sense for that particular problem.
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*shrug* This was a very wet day for me. No issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUMCjkO6YWg
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I'm talking more riding through a flooded section of road. I had a problem a few weeks back where I had planned a weekend away and it ended up being torrential rain the whole time, I got soaked, bike got soaked, had to ride through a flooded road and it put spray up everywhere. Underseat was all dry, nothing visually amiss but the bike errored whenever I tried to plug it in (couldn't get a read on the error though, no on-screen message, just the triangle that goes away once you cycle power). Left it an hour (still pissing rain) and then it was magicly fine.
I've gotten the bike wet plenty before (getting rained out has been a theme this year >:( ) but water getting up somewhere it's not meant to be is the only thing that made sense for that particular problem.
I got caught in a hailstorm in Truckee, CA when riding my Experia. While I have not had any charging problems other than the usual issues, after that was when I started getting intermittent "undefined fault" when in reverse. I cannot say for sure if it's related. But I have intermittently had this issue since then, even when the bike is very dry.
-Don- Flagstaff, AZ (RV trip with Zero DS)
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Without being able to see your bike, Id say your fault probably had something to do with voltage leakage to chassis or something similar. If you sprayed water UP into things, yah, something got dumped in and it was not happy. Possibly the charger, if water got on one of the high legs and was seeping to the case, it'd throw that Im betting.
A can of air, or a blow dryer to GENTLY blow out / dry out stuff might help a lot.
Gently means 15 to 20 psi air not 80 to 100 !! :D
Get a vaccuum that is not full of dusty shit and turn it on to blow any pooftie out of it, then put the hose on the blow side, and you can use that to help dry stuff out. a LOT of air that is not too high pressure and it heats it up a bit too from the motor so it can really help dry things when you got in a mess.
I would do this at the power plant from time to time when stuff got damp that should not have.
Aaron
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All,
After my experience today, I would just put out a caution on the Experia FW 43 update, making sure your dealer (and Energica) get their download software and protocols all worked out. What was hoped would be at most an hour of time completing this maintenance task turned into a 5-hour marathon of communication that finally resulted in a successful upgrade, but left me with a 2-hour ride in 40 degree darkness to get home. I've had no time yet to explore the wonders of the new upgrade!
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All,
After my experience today, I would just put out a caution on the Experia FW 43 update, making sure your dealer (and Energica) get their download software and protocols all worked out. What was hoped would be at most an hour of time completing this maintenance task turned into a 5-hour marathon of communication that finally resulted in a successful upgrade, but left me with a 2-hour ride in 40 degree darkness to get home. I've had no time yet to explore the wonders of the new upgrade!
Glad they got it sorted out for you. There's some nice changes and bug fixes. I should have written them all down, as I'm forgetting. heated grip adjustment on the fly, firmware version showing, glitchy looking consumption screen while adjusting cruise. Those come to mind.