ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: DonTom on July 11, 2023, 11:21:10 PM
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"Toyota Claims Breakthrough That Will Lead To 745-Mile EV Battery
The Japanese automaker says it will soon be able to manufacture a solid-state pack that can charge in 10 minutes."
See here. (https://insideevs.com/news/675517/toyota-battery-breakthrough-745-miles-range/?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=campaign&_kx=OSu1VRrpQLLuulgKGcp7sAKooYs3nA6MwerVOX5M8NY%3D.VCGm8F)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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"lighter, less complicated cars" huh?
You know what would make cars lighter? Not insisting they all be lifted minivans that do a thousand miles on a charge!!
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They have newer tech out that is supercap based. The systems I think can go to 400 volts or so if I am not mistaken, can charge at hundreds of amps, and of course discharge at same rate. With some clever relay switching you could potentially say break your bank into 2 or 3 packs, run in series for high voltage, charge the 3 banks in parallel to keep voltages down but really pump the amps to them to get the fast charge w/o violating that 200 or whatever amp charge rate. Of course there would be the balancing but that's always an issue no matter what the tech, BUT being cap tech, and essentially an electrostatic charge based and not chemical base, the balance ideally should only take a few minutes tops.
Aaron
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As usual I don't think I will hold my breath until the new EV battery vaporware arrives. ::)
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https://kilowattlabs.com/products/low-voltage/
they make other products too, but here is a power supply / battery. well it's really a capacitor storage system that holds kilowatt hours of energy.
a bit on the heavy side for now but they are constantly improving things and it has a life cycle of like a million cycles and can charge very fast / discharge very fast.
They might be looking at something like this or a hybrid of something like this.
Aaron
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"Toyota Claims Breakthrough That Will Lead To 745-Mile EV Battery
The Japanese automaker says it will soon be able to manufacture a solid-state pack that can charge in 10 minutes."
See here. (https://insideevs.com/news/675517/toyota-battery-breakthrough-745-miles-range/?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=campaign&_kx=OSu1VRrpQLLuulgKGcp7sAKooYs3nA6MwerVOX5M8NY%3D.VCGm8F)
-Don- Auburn, CA
That's exciting news! Toyota's breakthrough in solid-state battery technology is a significant development for the electric vehicle (EV) industry. The ability to manufacture a solid-state battery pack that can charge in just 10 minutes is a game-changer. Solid-state batteries offer several advantages over traditional lithium-ion batteries, including increased energy density, improved safety, and faster charging capabilities. With a claimed range of 745 miles, this breakthrough has the potential to address one of the main concerns surrounding EVs – range anxiety. If Toyota successfully brought this technology to market, it could revolutionize the EV landscape and accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles on a global scale. A solid-state battery that can charge quickly and provide an extended range would greatly enhance the convenience and appeal of EVs for consumers. We eagerly await further developments from Toyota and other manufacturers in the field of solid-state batteries. This innovation holds tremendous promise for the future of sustainable transportation, offering the potential for longer trips and faster charging times, ultimately making EVs even more practical and accessible for everyone.
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I think that the "10 minute charging" BS needs to stop. Don't care how capable the battery is, nobody's going to build megawatt power stations attached to every DC charging outpost. Or even some of them. I think the fastest chargers we have over here are 350kW and I think there are maybe only 50 in the entire country and if anyone else rocks up to use them at the same time as you you'll be getting 175kW.
At 350kW you could charge a typical EV-sized battery in 15 minutes. At the expense of drawing enough power to run an entire street.
Cas :)
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I think that the "10 minute charging" BS needs to stop. Don't care how capable the battery is, nobody's going to build megawatt power stations attached to every DC charging outpost. Or even some of them. I think the fastest chargers we have over here are 350kW and I think there are maybe only 50 in the entire country and if anyone else rocks up to use them at the same time as you you'll be getting 175kW.
At 350kW you could charge a typical EV-sized battery in 15 minutes. At the expense of drawing enough power to run an entire street.
Cas :)
I just think the EV battery vaporware needs to stop. It is rather endless. And IMO, the "problem" is exaggerated. I think most of us enjoy a short rest after a 200-mile drive or 100-mile ride.
I think a lot of the BS comes from those anti-Evers who say they can fill their gas tanks in two minutes--so we have people trying to fix the issue which IMO, is not much of an issue at all, but with one big exception.
The only realistic issue is those who cannot ever charge at home. Such as most people who live in places such as San Francisco (countless more cars than garages). Then superfast charging on the street could be important.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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San Francisco's problem is cars, not lack of charging... the whole point of a city is so that everyone is close enough together to not have to travel, and yet, here we are...
Cas :)
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San Francisco's problem is cars, not lack of charging... the whole point of a city is so that everyone is close enough together to not have to travel, and yet, here we are...
Cas :)
I would say it's both. If every one of those cars were in a garage with home charging, there would be no problem at all with either. Not enough garages in SF for the number of cars and countless people have to park several blocks from home if they are lucky enough to find a parking space in a reasonable amount of time even then.
Most people even in SF find they need a car for many things. Many in SF work outside the city, for one thing.
I would NOT want an EV if I lived in such an area with no garage.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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It looks like we might be close to the next jump in battery cell energy density.
The Toyota press release along with those from other companies says to me 500Wh/Kg cells are moving out of the labs and into production.
https://amprius.com/the-all-new-amprius-500-wh-kg-battery-platform-is-here/ (https://amprius.com/the-all-new-amprius-500-wh-kg-battery-platform-is-here/)
https://newatlas.com/energy/catl-500-wh-kg-condensed-battery/ (https://newatlas.com/energy/catl-500-wh-kg-condensed-battery/)
The cells currently used in EV's are around 300Wh/kg, an increase to 500Wh/kg would provide 40% more range.
A 40% increase in range for the same weight battery pack is nice but the flip side of that is more exciting to me; The same range with a 40% reduction in total cell weight.
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Also affords luxuries that take space/weight like potential liquid cooling.
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Honsetly the same range but with active thermal management for faster, more consistent charging is *way* more interesting to me than just a bigger battery pack with the same drawbacks.
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Can't wait for it in bikes, not really fussed about cars. I don't exactly have to pick up my Ioniq 5 when it falls over so I really don't care how heavy it is, and I charge it at 7kW at home overnight anyway.
@DonTom I think you missed the point I was making about SF. SF needs to ditch its car culture altogether. The whole city is choked beyond redemption by 20 million people who for some reason seem to need to haul themselves plus two tonnes of steel 100 miles every day to somewhere else. What the actual fuck. Everything is wrong.
Cas :)
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California should ditch electric vehicles all together.
They can't even keep the lights and AC's on now due to their incompetence, ignorance and grid management malfeasance, what makes them even begin to think they will be able to keep those cars running when there is an additional gigawatt or 5 of demand on a system that is already broken?
cas you may get your wish. All those cars will be off the streets real soon if there is no electric to charge them! For those who have solar panels, I can see the commie bastards over there now telling you, you have to give the electric to the government to dole out, for the 'greater good'. With everything being IoT, the Interconnection of Tards I call it. They'll just remotely disable your vehicle to keep you in compliance. It's coming, mark my words.
Aaron
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Can't wait for it in bikes, not really fussed about cars. I don't exactly have to pick up my Ioniq 5 when it falls over so I really don't care how heavy it is, and I charge it at 7kW at home overnight anyway.
@DonTom I think you missed the point I was making about SF. SF needs to ditch its car culture altogether. The whole city is choked beyond redemption by 20 million people who for some reason seem to need to haul themselves plus two tonnes of steel 100 miles every day to somewhere else. What the actual fuck. Everything is wrong.
Cas :)
I rarely charge my EV cars on the road. My Tesla M3 AWD LR has been charged on the road three times since I purchased it new in year 2018. My 2022 Chevy Bolt has never been charged on the road. But with the bikes, just about every trip I take requires a charge on the way. So yeah, I agree that the more KWH capacity is needed mostly on bikes, at least until they have a lot more chargers on the road.
I didn't really miss the point about SF. I just don't see any of that happening any time soon. But EVs will get a lot more common and that could be a problem for such a place. What will be helpful is if they can all charge where they work. I used to work in SF (retired now for ten years) and there were J-1772 stations there for employees long before I owned an EV.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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As has been pointed out elsewhere... the window of opportunity for changing society to align with the ecosystem's boundaries is shrinking fast and probably already closed. The next step is that the ecosystem is going to do it for us, which is going to be a rather more unpleasant affair.
Cas :)
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Here is the latest EV Vaporware. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/toyota-s-solid-state-batteries-will-run-up-to-932-miles-on-a-single-charge/ar-AA1cO7M9?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=44fb28728f6a4077b0d238fb7bc593ab&ei=14#image=1)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Toyota doesn’t manufacture any batteries. I wonder who they are working with. If it was Panasonic who is one of Teslas suppliers and a Japanese company wouldn’t Tesla be making an announcement too. There are several battery researchers and developers that have had some promising results in the lab but can they be manufactured in scale is the question as well as at a cost that makes sense. To date nobody is doing that.
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Probably this will take the same road as the fuel cell. Hyped, vanished, hyped, vanished...
I rather wait for the nuclear fusion to become mainstream. MR. FUSION reactor on his car, anyone? 8)
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But can it provide the 1.21 jigga watts needed for the Super Duper Ultra Fast Charger!!
Oh wait, don't forget the eggs.
Aaron
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I just think the EV battery vaporware needs to stop. It is rather endless. And IMO, the "problem" is exaggerated. I think most of us enjoy a short rest after a 200-mile drive or 100-mile ride.
Sure but also, EV chargers don't tend to be where I want to stop and spend time and none of my riding buddies enjoy lunch being in a supermarket carpark or down the back of an industrial estate rather than a nice pub.
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So WE need to do a better job of convincing the pub owners that putting in an EV charger will bring / keep people at their business longer! :D
Hey, if I gotta sit around and wait for my car / bike to charge, do i want a stale grocery store chemically soaked sandwich, or a nice hot meal and an ale at the pub?
Aaron
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There was some discussion regarding installing a couple of L2 outlets at Alice's Restaurant a few years ago. But after looking into the costs for the outlets, an new transformer, and underground the wires, the owners decided not to install the charging stations. Not having them sure doesn't seem to have affected their business any.
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There was some discussion regarding installing a couple of L2 outlets at Alice's Restaurant a few years ago. But after looking into the costs for the outlets, an new transformer, and underground the wires, the owners decided not to install the charging stations. Not having them sure doesn't seem to have affected their business any.
Often, the cities pay more than half the expense, if not all off it. They need to check into that.
This place (https://www.plugshare.com/location/540337) had theirs mostly paid for (I was told by Randy, the owner). Randy only has to pay a small percentage of the total bill.
This place (https://www.plugshare.com/location/346912) had theirs fully paid for by some clean air agency (says so right next to their two charge stations).
It seems to me CA is trying hard to get more charge stations of any type anywhere.
-Don- Now here (https://www.plugshare.com/location/284768)at South Lake Tahoe.
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They don't even have to be L3 chargers, just a decent L2 would do,hence no transformer needed, just hook it right to your mains, Breaker it at 30 to 50 amps, run it on 6 ga to 2 ga wire and you are golden.
Aaron
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They don't even have to be L3 chargers, just a decent L2 would do,hence no transformer needed, just hook it right to your mains, Breaker it at 30 to 50 amps, run it on 6 ga to 2 ga wire and you are golden.
Aaron
The problem is that at Alice's Restaurant their electrical system is 100 years old and any additional stress on it will blow it up. So there would have been a lot more work to install a couple of L2 outlets than just connecting them up to their mains.
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Wow, if their stuff is that fragile, Im surprised the safety inspector / city inspector has not shut it down yet as a safety hazard, and double surprised that any insurance company would insure them even! They tend to get very picky about stuff like that.
Thats too bad.
Aaron
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Wow, if their stuff is that fragile, Im surprised the safety inspector / city inspector has not shut it down yet as a safety hazard, and double surprised that any insurance company would insure them even! They tend to get very picky about stuff like that.
Thats too bad.
Aaron
Here is a photo of their only 220V outlet, located at the side of their gas station. It used to have a sign that said no EV charging allowed. That sign has worn away.
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The plug is a corroded clop of crap but the wires might still be sort of good. Could replace the receptacle and see how it fares. That looks like a 70's box there, so only 50 years old hehe.
The only problem being, this is going to be like working at a power plant. The coal and limestone dust would corrode the living shit out of EVERYTHING, not to mention being right next to the ocean and the salt air. You go to replace a sensor or something, a half hour job right? you give a little tug and 80 feet of conduit fall off the walls and wires arc, well fuck ME!! that 1/2 hour job just turned into a 2 week job!
Aaron what did you do? I got purple halo's on the whole deck now..... $#Q%$ this im going home !!!
Aaron
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I watch a YouTube video of someone who attended the battery equipment manufacturer trade show in Detroit. This trade show had exhibitors that sold the equipment to the people that make batteries in high volume for not only the EV market but consumer electronics as well. He ask them if anyone was selling equipment to make solid state batteries and could not find a single supplier. So if no one is selling the equipment to make solid state batteries in volume it may be a long time before we see them.
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Not sure if it's considered solid state or not but there's a company out there selling supercap batteries, while a bit heavy can handle hundreds of amps and have a life cycle of a million cycles they claim.
It'll be interesting for sure to see what comes out over the next few years.
We supposedly have a sodium tech coming out soon, which would kind of seem obvious, its just a ladder step up the periodic chain, so when's the potassium battery coming?
We have flow batteries and super caps and carbon nano something batteries, and some sort of palladium reduc thingie supposedly in the works.
Time will tell.
Aaron
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Not sure if it's considered solid state or not but there's a company out there selling supercap batteries, while a bit heavy can handle hundreds of amps and have a life cycle of a million cycles they claim.
It'll be interesting for sure to see what comes out over the next few years.
We supposedly have a sodium tech coming out soon, which would kind of seem obvious, its just a ladder step up the periodic chain, so when's the potassium battery coming?
We have flow batteries and super caps and carbon nano something batteries, and some sort of palladium reduc thingie supposedly in the works.
Time will tell.
Aaron
What we don't have are mass production of those new types of batteries for the consumer market and companies spending billions of dollars building new factories to make them. ::)
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Not sure if it's considered solid state or not but there's a company out there selling supercap batteries, while a bit heavy can handle hundreds of amps and have a life cycle of a million cycles they claim.
It'll be interesting for sure to see what comes out over the next few years.
We supposedly have a sodium tech coming out soon, which would kind of seem obvious, its just a ladder step up the periodic chain, so when's the potassium battery coming?
We have flow batteries and super caps and carbon nano something batteries, and some sort of palladium reduc thingie supposedly in the works.
Time will tell.
Aaron
Potassium probably never, it's too heavy. The whole thing about lithium was you got the most volts for your size and weight and the tiny ions could move through the electrolyte easily. Sodium's not quite as good as it's rather larger and heavier but it makes up for it by being orders of magnitude cheaper.
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They don't even have to be L3 chargers, just a decent L2 would do,hence no transformer needed, just hook it right to your mains, Breaker it at 30 to 50 amps, run it on 6 ga to 2 ga wire and you are golden.
Aaron
As long as it's a captive cable, I'm on a motorbike I don't have the space luggage capacity to be trucking around the same cable literally every EV uses for charging anyway.
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most every charger I see has a cable on it. The J plugs. That is what makes them chargers :)
Otherwise it's just a plug, not a charger!
But agreed on the lugging a cable around. I have a 'charging kit' I put together with a charger, 50 feet of 12 ga flat cord, and a few pigtails to jack into pretty much every plug available. (5 total) so no matter where I am at, if there is an outlet, I can get the juice.
Overall it weighs probably 12 or so Lbs,
Agreed, something we generally do NOT want to be lugging around, as it takes up a full bag's capacity.
Aaron
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As long as it's a captive cable, I'm on a motorbike I don't have the space luggage capacity to be trucking around the same cable literally every EV uses for charging anyway.
I modified one the make it small enough to carry on a bike, or in a backpack or whatever.
See my thread here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10305.msg98187#msg98187)
-Don- Reno, NV
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Most the chargers have a HUGE plastic container for the damned electronics to communicate with the car. Now the ones that show you KW/hr, power used, elapsed and all the bells and whistles I can see but if all you want is JUST a simple interface to turn the damned power on to charge your car, that actual part really is just a small chip /circuit board really. You could really about put one inline on the cord, and it'd fit easily in the head of the cord w/o the HUGE box inbetween the plug and cable.
I am in the process of making a super compact cable to try an experiment. The J plug side, I am going to just pot the pins in some acrylic, at the proper spacing to fit into the plug side, it'll be a small flat puck with the pins sitting out eseentially. (since the Ribelle will never take more than 15 amps, I don't need HUGE honking cables coming out of it, 12 ga is perfect for power, 16 for signal). You can use heat shrink to make an insulating jacket for cables, so I will run them flat, and shrink them like a flat cable so they fit very easily under the seat of the bike and all it will have is a small female plug head right there.
Now all I need is 12 GA extension cord wire to bring up to 15 amps to the bike, (yes technically I could get away with 14 ga but I want the little safety overhead), with a few pigtail heads to form fit the plug and I can charge anywhere, without having to lift the seat.
The seat lift is concerning to me because, what if your charging at a station somewhere with the seat up and it starts raining into your stuff? I think that would be a BAD day, this way, you can charge in the drizzle / light rain and your bikes sensitive power block is still protected.
TBH I don't understand why ALL manu's just don't put the little chip ON their bike and it's all built in. For L1 or L2 charging, which is mains charging, you just plug a damned cord into the bike and the rest is handled BY the bike, like it is now. Once the warranty is gone off my bike I plan on doing just this. It'll easily fit in the area under the seat where the charger is tucked in at.
Aaron
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3K miles on one charge! More EV battery vaporware here! (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/major-breakthrough-could-extend-ev-range-to-over-3-000-miles-on-a-single-charge/ar-AA1r3NRd?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=c7a9a434aaa742e6bc5802c589d35d58&ei=14)
-Don- Reno, NV