ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: DonTom on May 29, 2023, 07:55:24 AM
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Today, going north on Hwy 395, about five miles north of here, I am riding at around 65 MPH and the motor dies with no advance warning! At least I was at a very safe place when it happened. The screen said something like " Undefined fault--see dealer" (perhaps not the exact words). So then I check the bike's diagnostics and it says "All Okay" but the Mil (motor symbol) is still on the screen. I turn the bike off and on several times, and no more motor symbol on the screen and no more issues. I still completed the ride, more than 100 miles / 161 KM more with no issues and no more errors just as if nothing ever happened.
I rode up to here (https://www.plugshare.com/location/124842) and then to Lake Davis and back home (Reno). No more issues at all.
But it is kinda scary to know the bike can die at any time with no warning. This has never happened to me before on either of my Energicas.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Today, going north on Hwy 395, about five miles north of here, I am riding at around 65 MPH and the motor dies with no advance warning! At least I was at a very safe place when it happened. The screen said something like " Undefined fault--see dealer" (perhaps not the exact words). So then I check the bike's diagnostics and it says "All Okay" but the Mil (motor symbol) is still on the screen. I turn the bike off and on several times, and no more motor symbol on the screen and no more issues. I still completed the ride, more than 100 miles / 161 KM more with no issues and no more errors just as if nothing ever happened.
I rode up to here (https://www.plugshare.com/location/124842) and then to Lake Davis and back home (Reno). No more issues at all.
But it is kinda scary to know the bike can die at any time with no warning. This has never happened to me before on either of my Energicas.
-Don- Reno, NV
Hmm...disconcerting at best.....I've not had anything similar and I commute to work and back via a 100kmh/60mph motorway every week day on my Experia. All I get is the increasingly annoying "Key not in range" warning.
Smithy.
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Shakes your confidence in the bike and makes future rides that much less enjoyable. Very unfortunate.
What if that happens in a remote area with no cell coverage and the bike does not start up?
Let us know what the dealer tells you.
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[Hmm...disconcerting at best.....I've not had anything similar and I commute to work and back via a 100kmh/60mph motorway every week day on my Experia. All I get is the increasingly annoying "Key not in range" warning.
Smithy.
I also have been seeing that more and more, once or twice yesterday. I think nothing of it. I just hit the mode button once and the message is gone. I don't let small things like that bother me. The same goes fr the "needs service" indicator on the screen which I expect to have for the life of the bike. I also have that symbol on my Moto-Guzzi. Been on for years.
But dying unexpectingly when on the freeway can be very dangerous in some areas. But it has only happened this once in more than 1,000 miles/1,600 km.
BTW, when it died, there was no regen, so it coasted fine to a stop.
-Don- Reno, NV
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What if that happens in a remote area with no cell coverage and the bike does not start up?
I won't leave home without my Spot Messenger (https://www.findmespot.com/en-us/products-services/additional-services/all-devices#SPOT-SOV-Save-Our-Vehicle), that calls a tow truck via satellite. I also carry an in-Reach (https://www.garmin.com/en-US/c/outdoor-recreation/satellite-communicators/)so I have communications and can send text messages via email using satellite. Or send a message to a cell phone when I am NOT is a cell coverage area.
So I have all that well covered.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Had the same thing happen on my Ribelle a few times. But it was mid turn so was quite sketchy. Ended up having the bike serviced under warranty and haven't seen any issues since. I think if it keeps coming back you should take it for the dealer to pull logs.
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Had the same thing happen on my Ribelle a few times. But it was mid turn so was quite sketchy. Ended up having the bike serviced under warranty and haven't seen any issues since. I think if it keeps coming back you should take it for the dealer to pull logs.
If it happens again, I will need to do such. I will write this one off as a fluke for now.
I am thinking of the weird possibilities, such as somebody using a transmitter form a nearby car and stuff such as that. RF confusing the bike's computer or whatever.
Anyway, more than 100 miles after that happened yesterday and with no more issues at all.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I connected up my OBD2 reader to the port on the Experia. To my surprise, it works. Had the error code in memory. My reader said " U0110 Lost Commnications from drive motor controller module."
When I look "U0110" up in the Experia Owner's manual, it says:
"U0110 DRIVE GENERIC ERROR"
Looks like my OBD2 reader gives a better explanation than the Experia manual.
BTW, anybody manage to get a shop manual for the Experia yet. in PDF or other?
-Don- Reno, NV
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I had U0112 (https://www.obd-codes.com/u0112) „Lost communication with battery module“ in the midst of a ride. Same symptoms, the bike was coasting. However it did not start up again, the error remained and riding on was not possible. 1.600km on the clock. The bike was transported to my dealer (luckily only an hour away), Energica engineers drove up to Hannover/Germany from Modena. They reported an issue with the bus bars and did not want to disassemble the whole battery block as it might be on of the lower connectors - so for convenience the swapped the whole block.
Since then, I made another 600km w/o any issues.
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Don, I know you are an experienced rider, but any chance you might have unvoluntarily hit the killswitch?
That happened to me twice when clumsily trying to engage the cruise control with winter gloves, once while overtaking. Nearly soiled my pants then :o
The CC button re-location to the left side is the #1 on my to-do-list.
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Don, I know you are an experienced rider, but any chance you might have unvoluntarily hit the killswitch?
That happened to me twice when clumsily trying to engage the cruise control with winter gloves, once while overtaking. Nearly soiled my pants then :o
The CC button re-location to the left side is the #1 on my to-do-list.
That is a possibility, because I was trying to activate the cruise control just before that happened. However, I did a test later to use the kill switch while riding. I then got no error message, but the bike died, unlike the time it died on me without knowingly touching the kill switch with the error message. So I then assumed that had nothing to do with why it died. But I cannot say I am sure about anything.
Did you get an "undefined fault" message when you hit your kill switch by accident? Did you get an error code of U0110 in memory? Motor symbol on the screen that it took three or four restarts to get rid of?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Don, on the first occasion I had the 'Undefined Error' message, but no MIL lamp.After switching off and on again, the message was gone.
The second time I tried to immediately toggle the bike to GO modus while coasting so I did not really pay attention to the screen. ;)
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I was getting Left Turn Signal faults on my bike, and then they would not work until I turned the bike off then back on.
Happened more and more until I finally tore it down to find that there was a loose wire in the turn signal so I tightened it all back up and it's been fine since. Sometimes it'd say left, sometimes it'd say right turn signal. I found that most often the problem would / could happen if I blipped the turn signal button very fast, like when going from a left to a right turn and your finger slips off the button, it gave the bike a micro momentary command, and that generated the fault.
The cause of that loose wire I am sure was me, on the day I brought the bike home from the dealer, the fucker did not strap it down good in my trailer and by the time i got home it was on it's side IN the trailer on the turn signal. I ordered a new signal, but being these bendy flexy things they are, I opted to just take the guts out of the new one and new lens and put it in the old one. I should have tore the WHOLE thing out to inspect.. MY BAD.
NORMAL people don't operate that way, even in a hurry. Im wondering if it seen that 'blip' on the command line and said hmm that was way too fast for a person, better throw a fault just so the rider knows something might be brewing up.
Could you have accidentally grazed the kill switch, not even a complete 'engage' but a tiny brush into the other state and that could have triggered it?
I don't have a schematic of their logics so can't say for sure but often times on critical circuits, there is a state monitoring. The run switch must be ON, so just a millisecond lifting it off that ON connector, you didn't even have to move it to the off connectors yet to make OFF contact, just lifted it off the ON pads, and that'd be enough to say ok we do NOT have a RUN signal, that's a deal, shut it down. Bumping it / banging it / just wiggling it with a finger or a big fat glove enough to take it off the run might be enough to throw the fault, but since it was so fast, it did not latch the fault to be able to tell you exactly what triggered it?
What exactly were you doing when it happened and what was the weather like?
This IS a serious thing here and if it IS a problem we need to figure it out sooner rather than later when something bad happens to someone.
Aaron
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Could you have accidentally grazed the kill switch, not even a complete 'engage' but a tiny brush into the other state and that could have triggered it?
Yes, that is very possible. I think it is too much of a coincidence that I tried to engage cruise at about the exact same time. But I was wearing very thin gloves at the time because it was warm. But that doesn't prove I didn't just barely hit the kill switch.
If this is the case, it's nice to know that it will never happen in heavy traffic as we will not then be trying to engage the cruise control.
-Don- Reno, NV
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The placement of the cruise control really sucks TBH, it's a pain in the ass to reach it and with the throttle being as stiff as it is, it's kind of cumbersome to get initially set IMO. Throw on some heavier protective gloves and you got a bit of an issue there.
Aaron
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Guys, the CC is as old as Energica sells bikes and all the same very simple to get a workaround.
Either use the DIY solution (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5464930) to relocate the CC button (or if, you prefer, both CC & SET).
Or buy the ready-to-install solution (https://electricmotorcycles.nl/producten/134/energica-cruisecontrol-relocation-kit?categoryId=29&fbclid=IwAR1YVU-JgjdlSMT3DPD__nqQKF3RV0lOlec3cBfUQPXgfifgRbj95o1mqrE). Installation still remains with you.
No debate here that the fix has to come from Energica, but I accepted what I couldn’t change and changed what I didn‘t like.
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Guys, the CC is as old as Energica sells bikes and all the same very simple to get a workaround.
Either use the DIY solution (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5464930) to relocate the CC button (or if, you prefer, both CC & SET).
Or buy the ready-to-install solution (https://electricmotorcycles.nl/producten/134/energica-cruisecontrol-relocation-kit?categoryId=29&fbclid=IwAR1YVU-JgjdlSMT3DPD__nqQKF3RV0lOlec3cBfUQPXgfifgRbj95o1mqrE). Installation still remains with you.
No debate here that the fix has to come from Energica, but I accepted what I couldn’t change and changed what I didn‘t like.
I ordered a CC conversion kit for my Experia from here..: https://www.motoraldasse.ch/Energica-3d-printed-parts
Very nicely made, (the carbon version is very spendy though). Unfortunately it doesn't work on my Experia, although the connection plugs are identical, I'm suspecting the wiring pinout may be different to the other Energica machines, apparently I'm their first Experia customer. I'm in contact with them to try and sort it out and I suspect it will be a relatively easy fix, possibly just swapping a couple of wires around to suit.
Smithy.
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Apparently it's very easy to agree on the shittiness of the CC buttons location ;D
@smithy: On Hans Capelle's blog he describes how he found the right pins. https://hans2183.hcpl.be/2022/09/06/energica-cruise-control-button-relocation/
Probably you just need to cut and reconnect two wires for your new switch to work properly.
A second-best solution would be to exchange the function of SET and CC. The (now) SET-button is easier to reach and has more distance to the killswitch. That should be relatively easy to realise and does not require additional buttons.
Just food for thought...
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I also had the issue where my Ego would die, and give an "Undefined fault: contact service" message. I had it serviced under warranty, and hasn't happened since.
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Apparently it's very easy to agree on the shittiness of the CC buttons location ;D
@smithy: On Hans Capelle's blog he describes how he found the right pins. https://hans2183.hcpl.be/2022/09/06/energica-cruise-control-button-relocation/
Probably you just need to cut and reconnect two wires for your new switch to work properly.
I suspect you're right re the wiring cut/reconnect. I have seen that info from Hans....it's for a SS9 by the looks...the CC wiring on the Experia is in a totally different location compared the the "normal" bikes.
Smithy.
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The wiring on the Experia is even easier to locate - just left from the steering head bearing. It doesn’t require any disassembly! You can even see the connector coming from the switch unit and going into the rest of the bike‘s harness.
I spoke with my dealer about this mod back in 2020. He mentioned that Energica is quite sensitive against „modifying the harness“ when you want to claim any warranties. That‘s why it is recommended to add a 10cm cable extender and to split those two (only CC) or three (CC & Set) cables.
See my pictures: One shows the extension, ready to be modified. The other shows the result including shrink tube & isolation just before installing it on the bike.
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@most: Looks very professional! 5 Stars! I always prefer plug&play solutions. Where can I order this ;D
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@Don: I had the same experience on my eva ribelle some weeks ago. But I could reproduce the shut down. I then switched to the ECO mode and managed to drive home. After calling the dealer about the problem and him contacting energica they immediately diagnosed a faulty temp. sensor and replaced the the whole battery (the 3rd battery within a year...)
Hopefully it never happens again and the cause of your shutdown is not a temp. sensor of the batt.
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Today, going north on Hwy 395, about five miles north of here, I am riding at around 65 MPH and the motor dies with no advance warning! At least I was at a very safe place when it happened. The screen said something like " Undefined fault--see dealer" (perhaps not the exact words). So then I check the bike's diagnostics and it says "All Okay" but the Mil (motor symbol) is still on the screen. I turn the bike off and on several times, and no more motor symbol on the screen and no more issues. I still completed the ride, more than 100 miles / 161 KM more with no issues and no more errors just as if nothing ever happened.
I rode up to here (https://www.plugshare.com/location/124842) and then to Lake Davis and back home (Reno). No more issues at all.
But it is kinda scary to know the bike can die at any time with no warning. This has never happened to me before on either of my Energicas.
-Don- Reno, NV
I've seen this a couple times on my Ribelle, but usually when it's got jarred hard (crater pothole, unexpectedly sharp bump), unusual for it to just happen without prompting.
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I've seen this a couple times on my Ribelle, but usually when it's got jarred hard (crater pothole, unexpectedly sharp bump), unusual for it to just happen without prompting.
TBH, knowing the reason for a shutdown doesn't make it less scary to me. Didn't you get into big troubles when this has happened?
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TBH, knowing the reason for a shutdown doesn't make it less scary to me. Didn't get into big troubles when this has happened?
It's only happened to me at low speeds and it's been possible to just pull over and restart the bike which clears it.
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Fortunately!
But how can a hit/bump at a rather low speed cause the bike to shutdown? Not too much g force. Could it be an intermittent contact? A shutdown for safety reasons doesn't make sense as the consequences of a power loss can be quite severe especially when it happens while cornering.
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Maybe you didn't exactly bang it at low speed, low impact, just didn't realize it because of your positioning.
Ive slammed some potholes and been like oh god dammit my ass!! Then when I am paying attention and get up on my legs to go over them and use my knees as the shock absorbers, don't notice them nearly as bad, but you KNOW the bike is feeling it. maybe not as much because it's not having to counter your body weight along with the G force of the shock as well but it feels it.
Just two wild guesses pulling out of my ass....
The tip over switch momentarily flips from the jar, but since it's only a brief second, the 'error' flags, but not the 'cause' as it went away before it could figure out what specifically gave the 'error flag' so you get the gen / unspecified shutdown?
second rabbit out of my ass.... is there an over current shutdown on the motor / and or inverter.. say like it stalled or something? .... Think of the motor as sort of kind of like a fancy VFD, or a Servo with an infinity travel limit given it's regen capabilities. When you brake a servo, it's velocity is generating power and that power MUST go somewhere or you pop control cards!.. in this case you hit a hard bump it even if it's only a few RPM give the gear ratio, it slams the motor for a quick WHEEEEEP !! that sends a current spike back, and if it exceeds that 483amps, or whatever it is set to... bing, you get a shutdown... again, since it's so fast, it can't tell what caused it so general error fault. I have actually seen something similar in my past due to a misaligned travel rail, that 'bump' as it spanned track lengths was enough to cause this.
Since I don't have a clue how any of their power handling logics work,... needle, meet haystack... :)
It sounds good so IM running with it!!! why not, politicians run with total BS all the time heh.
Aaron
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Low speed being 30 for a bastard pothole and about 40 for a sharp bump on a single-track road. Worth noting that in 13500 miles it's only happened twice and both of those were when the bike was jarred pretty hard by unexpected road conditions.
I expect, as Specter mentioned, that it was some kind of sensor rather than a wiring issue.
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Low speed being 30 for a bastard pothole and about 40 for a sharp bump on a single-track road. Worth noting that in 13500 miles it's only happened twice and both of those were when the bike was jarred pretty hard by unexpected road conditions.
I expect, as Specter mentioned, that it was some kind of sensor rather than a wiring issue.
Perhaps it activated the tip-over sensor. But it was a smooth road where my Experica died. But I think I was reaching for the CC at the time.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Low speed being 30 for a bastard pothole and about 40 for a sharp bump on a single-track road. Worth noting that in 13500 miles it's only happened twice and both of those were when the bike was jarred pretty hard by unexpected road conditions.
I expect, as Specter mentioned, that it was some kind of sensor rather than a wiring issue.
Could it be the side stand sensor? Haven't tried at which angle it gets triggered but it certainly cuts off the power.
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No, the sidestand sensor would just switch the power off. This activated some kind of error code that came up on the screen.
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Not much help for the OP but I figured out what my issue was.
My seat latch has a manufacturing defect and the microswitch (seriously, why?) was throwing errors if my weight got jarred off the seat.
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Not much help for the OP but I figured out what my issue was.
My seat latch has a manufacturing defect and the microswitch (seriously, why?) was throwing errors if my weight got jarred off the seat.
See my thread here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12689.0) Can you get by with bypassing it there in the UK?
-Don- Reno, NV
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See my thread here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12689.0) Can you get by with bypassing it there in the UK?
I just strapped the seat down with a bungee cable and it fixed the issue, next time I drop in to EEMC I'll see if I can get them to bend the bracket back into place again (it's currently broken because two assholes tried to steal the bike and this apparently involved one of them jumping onto it like they were in a Jackie Chan movie or something).
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Got the undefined fault on my Experia over the holiday weekend. Was riding two up through about 10 miles of loose gravel (road construction) and then a little easy two track to check out some trouty water, so I turned off the bike in there when we stopped. All of this was low speed due to the surface and lots of vibration.
As soon as I got back to pavement and started speeding up, exactly at 30mph get the fault and loss of power. Cycled the ignition, got moving again and same exact thing.
Finally, on the third try, I cycled the kill switch and also switched the driving mode, and then it was fine after that, including a 2 hr ride home the following day.
I'm assuming it was the vibration and something to do with the IMU unit, since switching modes got me going again. I'll take it in to the dealer this fall, see what they find.