ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: smithy on May 25, 2023, 01:26:20 AM
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Hi All,
My Experia is running fine and no major issues to report.....except the silly "Key not in range" warning....My Experia is the "keyless" version, (I'm probably regretting that now), during my ~52km commute each way to work I can get as many as 6-7 key not in range warnings...not a deal breaker but it's becoming annoying. The owners manual says the key fob should be within 1.5m of the sensor which lives behind the dash panel just to the right of the TFT. I have my key fob in the "Frunk" for my travels and this makes it less than 30cm (1 foot) away from the sensor, I've replaced the fob battery twice and it seems to make no difference. I'm running version .042 firmware.
Anybody have any ideas..?? Is there a later firmware version which may sort it..??
Smithy.
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Hi All,
My Experia is running fine and no major issues to report.....except the silly "Key not in range" warning....My Experia is the "keyless" version, (I'm probably regretting getting that), during my ~52km commute each way to work I can get as many as 6-7 key not in range warnings...not a deal breaker but it's becoming annoying. The owners manual says the key fob should be within 1.5m of the sensor which lives behind the dash panel just to the right of the TFT. I have my key fob in the "Frunk" for my travels and this makes it less than 30cm (1 foot) away from the sensor, I've replaced the fob battery twice and it seems to make no difference. I'm running version .042 firmware.
Anybody have any ideas..?? Is there a later firmware version which may sort it..??
Smithy.
I keep the FOB in my left pocket. See if that helps. I rarely see the "FOB out of range" message. Just once in a great while.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Again, energica really needs to FIX THIS SHIT!
A simple command that once the rider over rides itt by acknowledging the error message, and pressing the mode switch, it does NOT come back up again until the bike is turned off and back on.
The RF circuit on the key fob is a total piece of shit, they ALL ARE!! Way too many things that can intefere with it, and givein it's FCC classification it has to ACCEPT that inteference and NOT produce any on it's own. This means that noise from your bikes computer,or even the motor / inverter can possibly cause reception issues and blank out the signal, which gives the error.
I honestly don't think they are going to fix this issue, GENUINELY fix it, it's the nature of those crappy key fobs, so the next best thing, alter the software so that once I say OK< WHATEVER....... STOP showing me the error message!
Aaron
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The "Key not in range" isn't a hardware issue, it is a software issue. It was never an issue before Fw 39. See the thread I started two years ago: https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=11027.0
I don't think Energica really cares. Software isn't their strong point. There is a lot on this forum about it. The easy way to avoid it is to just get a keyed system which is what I did on my Ribelle RS.
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I updated my SS9+RS to firmware version 042 a few weeks ago which made the keyless issue worse than before. During the past weeks, the range decreased even more. With a new battery, it is now no more than 30 to 40 cm. My dealer negotiated with Energica and the Swiss importer and achieved an exchange of the fob under warranty. Moreover, Energica sent plastic screws to my dealer as they are convinced that exchanging the steel ones, that fix the antenna, improves the situation significantly. Will get both tomorrow and report back my experiences.
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BTW, Energica suggested disabling bluetooth as it is considered to interfere with the keyless system. This may be the main reason why they afaik no longer include the bt module in new bikes.
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I have Bluetooth on my bike and I've only seen the key out of range message a handful of times. Keyless works really well for me, so I doubt that is the issue.
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We are in a period of increased sunspot activity and solar flares, which will wreak havok with all communications. GPS goes out among other things. This issue seems more prevalent when you are making right hand turns, as when you do, you are leaning that way slightly, and that brings the key fob in your left pocket closer to the sun, hereby intensifying the interference it causes!
Aaron
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I put just over 2.5k miles on the bike and never saw a 'key not in range' alert. I always keep my key in my right pants pocket. Then I took her in for service and was updated to the most current software version.
I have seen the 'key not in range' pop up several times now....
L1 charging amperage increased! My charge times on L1 decreased, of course.
You can now change the level of the heated grips while riding, involves hitting the mode switch, then tapping I think right to cycle through stuff and tapping mode again. Something like that, discovered it totally by accident, while riding.
In short, I believe the 'key not in range' is a software problem.
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Maybe the software was not written properly to detect it happening, so it may have been cutting out all along, but the software never seen it or reported it. Then they updated it, and the software now WAS able to see if it was working or not, it was not, and THEN started reporting it! Maybe the problem is not a software bug, but the software actually being FIXED now and actually doing it's job, and you are seeing the result of it doing it's job now.
FFT..
Aaron
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I had a 2020 Ribelle. Initially, the FOB worked fine. As pointed out by ultrarnr, I became an issue when my dealer installed new FW early 2021 - next to unreliable starting the bike (it almost nether started on the first push, sometimes required a sequence like short-long-long).
I got KNIR (key not in range) warning circa every 10km - extremely annoying on longer trips. FOB is always in my jacket front left pocket.
However I made two 3.800km trips into the Alps - surprisingly, the error did not appear even once & I cannot say what I did different on those trips other that to have my Energica tank bag stuffed with rainwear, drinks etc. - no electronics. I even managed to forget the fob in the saddle lock when charging, so I was installing a 3d-printed turn-key instead.
Those very annoying topics made me order my Experia with classic keys. Did not regret that a single moment.
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Most, I did the same with my Ribelle RS. Not a single regret either getting the keyed system, it works the first time, every time and no error codes. Software is probably one of Energica's weakest areas and they definitely need to hire better talent.
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Oh I had the key not in range twice since then.
Simply forgot the keys in the house and had to go back 8).
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Hi All,
My Experia is running fine and no major issues to report.....except the silly "Key not in range" warning....My Experia is the "keyless" version, (I'm probably regretting that now), during my ~52km commute each way to work I can get as many as 6-7 key not in range warnings...not a deal breaker but it's becoming annoying. The owners manual says the key fob should be within 1.5m of the sensor which lives behind the dash panel just to the right of the TFT. I have my key fob in the "Frunk" for my travels and this makes it less than 30cm (1 foot) away from the sensor, I've replaced the fob battery twice and it seems to make no difference. I'm running version .042 firmware.
Anybody have any ideas..?? Is there a later firmware version which may sort it..??
Smithy.
By using the passive key, you do not get the "key not in range" error.
I've done this for more than a week now without issues. Im still on fw 41 (still a bit worried there were no update on latest service..).
You only need the passive key near the bike when starting it, so it is not as much hassle as one could believe. Comparing to a normally keyed bike, it still has the benefit that i can pocket the key after starting it. I keep the bike key on the same keychain as my other keys - which i would not do if i had to leave them in the bike while riding.
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You only need the passive key near the bike when starting it, so it is not as much hassle as one could believe. Comparing to a normally keyed bike, it still has the benefit that i can pocket the key after starting it. I keep the bike key on the same keychain as my other keys - which i would not do if i had to leave them in the bike while riding.
Another way, for those who it bothers, is to use the PIN number instead of the FOB.
I just don't see the big deal about seeing that "key not in range" message and hitting the mode button once to get rid of it.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I want to update to 042 especially because of the smaller speed difference, but now I'm having second thoughts as my keyless is pretty flawless.
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Another way, for those who it bothers, is to use the PIN number instead of the FOB.
I just don't see the big deal about seeing that "key not in range" message and hitting the mode button once to get rid of it.
-Don- Reno, NV
I agree with you...and I wouldn't mind so much if it were just the "once" during a ride....but it occurs 6-7 times during a single 50km ride to work...and becomes rather bothersome to keep hitting the mode button all the time, takes my attention away from the road for a second when the warning happens. I've tried putting the fob in my jacket pocket, left & right, pants pockets, Frunk etc...seems to make little to no difference.
Smithy.
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I agree with you...and I wouldn't mind so much if it were just the "once" during a ride....but it occurs 6-7 times during a single 50km ride to work...and becomes rather bothersome to keep hitting the mode button all the time, takes my attention away from the road for a second when the warning happens. I've tried putting the fob in my jacket pocket, left & right, pants pockets, Frunk etc...seems to make little to no difference.
You should only see it once per ride at the very most and only before you press in the mode button. Something there doesn't sound right.
I do not recall ever seeing it after I push in the mode button unless I stop and restart the bike.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I agree with you...and I wouldn't mind so much if it were just the "once" during a ride....but it occurs 6-7 times during a single 50km ride to work...and becomes rather bothersome to keep hitting the mode button all the time, takes my attention away from the road for a second when the warning happens. I've tried putting the fob in my jacket pocket, left & right, pants pockets, Frunk etc...seems to make little to no difference.
You should only see it once per ride at the very most and only before you press in the mode button. Something there doesn't sound right.
I do not recall ever seeing it after I push in the mode button unless I stop and restart the bike.
-Don- Reno, NV
One thing I do notice after hitting the mode button to get rid of the warning...is a tiny "key symbol" next to the clock in the upper left of the TFT....this must indicate there is an error with the key fob or the pick-up ring I suspect.?? Before I get the error message the little key symbol isn't there.
Smithy.
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If it would be pressing only once then I could accept it. However most of the times I had to press it EVERY DAMN TEN KMs! And the message managed to cover the display in hectic city traffic situations where I just wanted a glance at the speedo…
Plus, my Ribelle did not start on the fist push but required a changing combination of 2-3 longer/shorter pushes.
From how I see things, I did not pay a those 393EUR on a function that is unreliable and annoying.
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It IS kind of amusing that one would go for a keyless option, only to carry a key anyways to charge the thing :D
Food for future upgrades.
Make an App where I can start / stop / lock it from my phone. Phones have a 'close in comms' feature that only works to about 8 feet or so, hell even wifi, app running on my phone I get in range, tap a button on the phone and bike unlocks. They'd have to re enable the bikes bluetooth but that shouldn't be that hard to do.
Or maybe, an electronic suppository that the rider can stick up their ass, so everytime they get on the bike, it senses them and unlocks. Unless you are in prison, or Cali, theft of that key should not be an issue :)
Aaron
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It IS kind of amusing that one would go for a keyless option, only to carry a key anyways to charge the thing :D
Food for future upgrades.
Make an App where I can start / stop / lock it from my phone. Phones have a 'close in comms' feature that only works to about 8 feet or so, hell even wifi, app running on my phone I get in range, tap a button on the phone and bike unlocks. They'd have to re enable the bikes bluetooth but that shouldn't be that hard to do.
Or maybe, an electronic suppository that the rider can stick up their ass, so everytime they get on the bike, it senses them and unlocks. Unless you are in prison, or Cali, theft of that key should not be an issue :)
Aaron
Don't need a key for the Experias to charge, they have a charge port flap on the right side, so no need to lift the seat like the other Energicas. The Experia, does'nt have a bluetooth or Wifi module, so one would need to be "retrofitted" for an app to be of any use.
Smithy.
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I just don't see the big deal about seeing that "key not in range" message and hitting the mode button once to get rid of it.
-Don- Reno, NV
The thing is that i get that message at least 4-5 times every commute, twice a day (somewhat less frequent when riding in less dense traffic, such as hitting twisty roads on a sunday). The message gets in the way of reading the dash frequently when filtering or in busy traffic, which simply isnt an option when i can avoid it as easily as using the passive key.
For me, the "key" of the "keyless" is not really leaving the key in the pocket at all times, but not risking to leave my keys on the bike, having the keys or bike stolen or lost, or having to disconnect the bike keys from the chain every ride. Not saying i would not prefer the fob working, but the passive key is still much better than an actively keyed bike. Using the code for starting is just too slow to make any sense except in the event that the keys got lost or stolen.
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The thing is that i get that message at least 4-5 times every commute, twice a day (somewhat less frequent when riding in less dense traffic, such as hitting twisty roads on a sunday). The message gets in the way of reading the dash frequently when filtering or in busy traffic, which simply isnt an option when i can avoid it as easily as using the passive key.
For me, the "key" of the "keyless" is not really leaving the key in the pocket at all times, but not risking to leave my keys on the bike, having the keys or bike stolen or lost, or having to disconnect the bike keys from the chain every ride. Not saying i would not prefer the fob working, but the passive key is still much better than an actively keyed bike. Using the code for starting is just too slow to make any sense except in the event that the keys got lost or stolen.
Sounds like using the key as passive is the best idea. That kinda makes it like a bike with a key. I assume you know you can remove the battery from the FOB and it will still work as passive.
I like the active FOB, I just keep it in my pocket. While I have seen the message pop up a few times, it has not been nearly enough to annoy me. And I do not ever recall seeing the message twice without turning off the bike.
BTW, I have seen other messages also. I recall one time when I got the message that I can now unplug the charging cable when I was riding 65 MPH around 20 minutes after I last CCS charged the bike.
-Don- Reno, NV
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That is one thing I noticed with the Ribelle too, if you charge the bike without turning it on, it can get goofy sometimes, on startup or with the charge complete messages. Nothing bad seemed to happen, I think worse case I had to press the start button a few times to get it to finally fully activate.
Aaron
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Does anyone know what it costs to convert back from a keyless system to a keyed system?
after FW42 I'm consistently getting "Ket not in range" when first starting the bike, sometimes even when I have the fob sitting on the pickup itself.
Constantly get "key out of range" when riding and its just super frustrating.
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Does anyone know what it costs to convert back from a keyless system to a keyed system?
after FW42 I'm consistently getting "Ket not in range" when first starting the bike, sometimes even when I have the fob sitting on the pickup itself.
Constantly get "key out of range" when riding and its just super frustrating.
Have you tried removing the battery from your FOB and using the FOB only as passive? See your owner's manual about how to use it as passive. That should work much like a key and you should never see the message again.
The only difference is no key and you need to put the "dead" fob at a location on the bike for a second or two. As good, if not better, than using a key, and you should never see the out of range message again. And you will never have a bad FOB battery.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Does anyone know what it costs to convert back from a keyless system to a keyed system?
after FW42 I'm consistently getting "Ket not in range" when first starting the bike, sometimes even when I have the fob sitting on the pickup itself.
Constantly get "key out of range" when riding and its just super frustrating.
Have you tried removing the battery from your FOB and using the FOB only as passive? See your owner's manual about how to use it as passive. That should work much like a key and you should never see the message again.
The only difference is no key and you need to put the "dead" fob at a location on the bike for a second or two. As good, if not better, than using a key, and you should never see the out of range message again. And you will never have a bad FOB battery.-Don- Reno, NV
I might give this a shot Don.
Smithy.
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Will give it a shot.
Good thing I spent the $300 to not have to do this!
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I might give this a shot Don.
Smithy.
I have not tried it myself to get rid of the message as my FOB as active works well enough for me.
But I have tried it as passive with the battery removed and started the bike with no PIN number required. It worked perfectly. But I didn't go on a test ride like that.
But I expect it will work, as it cannot expect the FOB to be in range when it was not used as an active FOB. Be sure to remove the FOB battery or you will most likely continue to get the message. I expect it will then be as easy to use as a key, if not even easier, and no more "FOB out of range" message.
But be sure to post here how well it works out for you, as I have not tried a ride like that. However, I did ride the bike a few days without a FOB at all. I once left my FOB here in Reno in my motorcycle pants when the bike and I was in Auburn, CA. Never got the "FOB out of range message" then that I can recall.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I updated my SS9+RS to firmware version 042 a few weeks ago which made the keyless issue worse than before. During the past weeks, the range decreased even more. With a new battery, it is now no more than 30 to 40 cm. My dealer negotiated with Energica and the Swiss importer and achieved an exchange of the fob under warranty. Moreover, Energica sent plastic screws to my dealer as they are convinced that exchanging the steel ones, that fix the antenna, improves the situation significantly. Will get both tomorrow and report back my experiences.
A week ago I got a new fob and the plastic screws were installed in my SS9. No improvement. It got even so bad that the passive key wasn't recognized any more at all. In view of the symptoms, my mechanic is convinced that the antenna has to be defective.
He negotiated with Energica that I would get either a completely new keyless kit or a new key kit. I decided to take the latter as I've had it with the keyless junk. The price of the full key set is lower than the keyless kit, but the exchange includes *a lot* of work. Kudos to my dealer/mechanic for insisting and providing a solution!
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I case anyone in Switzerland is interested in the Energica dealer that has shown so much commitment: It is Speedbox in Wettingen. They know their stuff as they do a lot of tuning work for track bikes. Highly recommended.
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I was just thinking about the "keyFOB out of range" issue.
I wonder if the message can come up even when the bike sees the key-FOB fine.
I get some strange messages or very delayed messages on my Experia. Such as "you may now disconnect the charging cable" while riding. Even got a "LPR Active" message the other day when it was disabled. I have seen a couple of other messages that made no sense, I just cannot remember them all. I think they are delayed messages that can show up many minutes after they were true.
I just wonder if the "out of range" message is simply a similar message that can happen even while the FOB is being detected just fine.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I was just thinking about the "keyFOB out of range" issue.
I wonder if the message can come up even when the bike sees the key-FOB fine.
I get some strange messages or very delayed messages on my Experia. Such as "you may now disconnect the charging cable" while riding. Even got a "LPR Active" message the other day when it was disabled. I have seen a couple of other messages that made no sense, I just cannot remember them all. I think they are delayed messages that can show up many minutes after they were true.
I just wonder if the "out of range" message is simply a similar message that can happen even while the FOB is being detected just fine.-Don- Auburn, CA
When mine happens, I get the tiny little key symbol in the top left of the TFT .... #2 as per the pic below..
In the owners manual it just says.. "Key not in range" (if vehicle is equipped with keyless option).
Smithy.
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I got another silly message today. I was riding at 55 MPH when a message on the screen popped up that said "Key is off--turn on to continue."
Sure rides well at 55MPH / 88 .5 kmh when keyed off!
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Guys - for those issues *please* leave a comment in this thread (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12547.msg118933#msg118933).
We have more power towards Energica if more people put in what they observe - even if (in your case, Don) those Software bugs do not really bug you ;).
I can only report that I have the keyed version and do not see any message that is not there and not expected. VIN 48.
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Guys - for those issues *please* leave a comment in this thread (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12547.msg118933#msg118933).
We have more power towards Energica if more people put in what they observe - even if (in your case, Don) those Software bugs do not really bug you ;) .
I can only report that I have the keyed version and do not see any message that is not there and not expected. VIN 48.
It's a possibility that the "key not in range" message has no more to do with the key being out of range than my bike being off when it is on. IOW, could be related. A message about the "key being out of range" when the bike detects the key just fine. IOW, a SW glitch with the messages, perhaps not a true key out of range issue at all.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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For the very first time ever on my Experia, I got several messages on the screen for "key out of range" when it was not keyed off at all.
It was raining very hard at the time, in case that had anything to do with it. Then I got caught up in a big hailstorm at Donner Summit today (CA I-80 7,200' 2,200m elevation). At least I was able to wait it out at the rest area, the road was full of ice!
In the past, I only got the message for one time each time the bike was turned on. Today, I got around a dozen. Enough to be a bit annoying, but I was more concerned with the hard rain at the time. Thunder/lightning/rain/hail for around a half hour. Most of the hail was when I was l already parked in the rest area, fortunately.
-Don- Reno, NV