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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: peterwarm on May 24, 2023, 01:51:21 AM
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In the last couple of months my bike, an early 2019 SR/F, has stopped charging at 97%, not going to 100% despite being left all night. It seems stuck at 97% with zero Amps or kW input, even after leaving it for an extra hour or so.
I normally charge to 65% and boost it the day before if I think I've got a longer ride, so its not often I do 100% charge.
Anybody got some advice before I start the dreaded "contact the dealer"?
Thanks
pete
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My money is on a slowly dying on-board charger.
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My money is on a slowly dying on-board charger.
Eh, if it's an early 2019 SR/F it potentially has 2 onboard units. Is it a standard or premium? I haven't really head much noise about the onboard units dying on the gen 3 platform.
What makes this difficult is that they took the ability to see cell balance out of the app. My first thought is that the bike just needs a good, long balance cycle. Like maybe 12 hours. Could be as simple as that.
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In the last couple of months my bike, an early 2019 SR/F, has stopped charging at 97%, not going to 100% despite being left all night. It seems stuck at 97% with zero Amps or kW input, even after leaving it for an extra hour or so.
I normally charge to 65% and boost it the day before if I think I've got a longer ride, so its not often I do 100% charge.
Anybody got some advice before I start the dreaded "contact the dealer"?
Thanks
pete
I would try to run it all the way down to zero SOC and then charge all the way to full. I think that will calibrate your SOC. 97% is a not thing to worry about much, IMO. It's probably fully charged at the 97%. Is there a way to check the battery voltage on the SR/F? If it is at the normal high voltage at a full charge, then it is your SOC that is off. If the battery voltage is lower than it should be, then it could be a charger that is slowly dying. But if you have two chargers, rule that one out. All that should do is increase the charge time a bit, if one is weak and the other is normal.
I am not a SR/F owner, but I usually understand how such things work.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I would try to run it all the way down to zero SOC and then charge all the way to full. I think that will calibrate your SOC.
That's not what that does; I would not advise doing this.
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If it's an issue with some cells being weak, or out of whack on the balance, running it to zero may seriously push the one bank that is low WAY LOW, ie to the point you are dendriting / damaging them severely. remember these are poly's not phosphates, that shit will take them out with just a few times and god only knows how many times it's been stressed already IF there are balance issues.
If you want to try to fix it, try to leave it run overnight again, otherwise, the only way to really see what is going on is to check the voltage on each bank in the overall pack. All it takes is one to get a little bit out and each subsequent charge pushes it worse and worse, and the ones around take a hit the other direction, until you are the point where you are having safety shutdowns if you have a decent BMS or severely lost range of travel.
Aaron
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What do you mean with "charges only to 97%"? Is the dashboard still on next morning indicating an active charging session? Or is the dashboard off, you swith on ignition and see only 97%?
If it is the latter: I have the same issue.
- the bike charges up to 100%, does the loadbalancing and shuts down the charging session (dashboard is off)
- Next morning you switch on ignition. Dashboard indicates 97%
I tried to re-charge again. The bike kicks off a charging session and charges with very low Amps may be 60 seconds. After this the SOC jumps to 100% in the dashboard and stops the charging session.
I think that the BMS software has some problems to determine capacity and SOC. I have a raspberry pi permanently connected and log stuff like pack_capacity_ah. I think this parameter should be constant with some degradation over time. But this is not what happens. I have seen data between 93 and 112. Currently it says 104. This is more than 20% delta.
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I have seen data between 93 and 112. Currently it says 104. This is more than 20% delta.
It should never be anything other than 114.
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My 2020 SR/F started doing this very same nonsense a few weeks back.
I thought it was due to aging battery cells but then, I updated the firmware to the latest and much to my surprise the charging issue was gone. I was only one version behind.
I charged it to 100%, which I normally do only once a quarter, and it went to 100% and even the following day was still showing 100.
I had a hell of a hard time upgrading the firmware because bluetooth would disconnect right in the middle of the upgrade but I kept trying different phones until I was able to get it done.
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That's not what that does; I would not advise doing this.
Are you sure? I do not claim to be sure about Zeros, but it works for laptops as well as for Energica motorcycles. If it doesn't do the same on Zeros, they are the exception.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Are you sure? I do not claim to be sure about Zeros, but it works for laptops as well as for Energica motorcycles. If it doesn't do the same on Zeros, they are the exception.
It does not do that for laptops. It does not do that for Energicas. I think you may be confusing Lithium batteries with NiCad from 30 years ago that are no longer used. The misinformation you are repeating was started by Hans Capelle in an attempt to diagnose his SR/F's magic charging, but it was quickly disproven. He admits he was entirely wrong but it's too late and people keep regurgitating it as if it were a fact.
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If it's an issue with some cells being weak, or out of whack on the balance, running it to zero may seriously push the one bank that is low WAY LOW, ie to the point you are dendriting / damaging them severely.
But 0 SOC is not all that near zero in reality. And then you charge to full ASAP.
But I will admit I do not know if this works on Zeros, but it does on just about everything else that gives an SOC percentage.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Despite your anecdotal evidence I must respond, again, with, "no it does not. That's not how it works."
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Despite your anecdotal evidence I must respond, again, with, "no it does not. That's not how it works."
You mean not how it works on Zeros, which is the exception.
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No that is not what I mean.
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go ahead and push a 3.2 volt LiPo Cell down to 1.5 volts, and play games, and when the bike bursts in flames a week or so later, don't come back complaining gee what happened.
Aaron
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No that is not what I mean.
Then please explain what you do mean.
Here is what I am talking about. (https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/Battery_Calibration)
Energicas often pop up a message to say to do the same. You must have seen it, I have, on my SS9 as well as on my Experia. It askes to run the battery to zero and then fully charge ASAP to calibrate the SOC.
So are you saying Zeros have no way to calibrate the SOC, unlike the others?
-Don- Reno, NV
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It does not do that for laptops. It does not do that for Energicas. I think you may be confusing Lithium batteries with NiCad from 30 years ago that are no longer used.
I somehow missed this message of yours. If you have a laptop owner's manual around, read about "battery SOC calibration". Every laptop manual I have read mentions how to calibrate the SOC by full discharge and instantly back to full.
And on the Energica, I have seen the message on my screen that says do the same to calibrate to SOC. Haven't you had the message? But I ignore it, because it is too much hassle to ride until the battery is that low and then recharge right there. I think (not sure) the message comes most often when charging too many times when above 50% SOC or so. Seems the message stays away after I get down in the red and do a full recharge. I don't think I really need to get down to the limp mode.
I have an idea when I need a recharge even if my SOC is not spot on.
However, I do not claim to know how the SOC works on a Zero. But it is something I would try if I expected I had a SOC issue.
-Don- Reno, NV
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In the last couple of months my bike, an early 2019 SR/F, has stopped charging at 97%, not going to 100% despite being left all night. It seems stuck at 97% with zero Amps or kW input, even after leaving it for an extra hour or so.
I normally charge to 65% and boost it the day before if I think I've got a longer ride, so its not often I do 100% charge.
Anybody got some advice before I start the dreaded "contact the dealer"?
Thanks
pete
I experienced the same issue with my 2020 SR/S. But it seems I found the issue, which is the (3ph 22kW) Zappi wallbox. It charges with 6kW and suddenly around 95% SoC, the charge amps jumps up and down between 20 and 58A and then the entire process stops at 97%. But when I use the EVSE charger (from my Kia e-Niro) in a regular wall outlet, it steadily completes the charge to 100% and some balancing. So what I now do is: setting the charge goal at 80%, using the wallbox with the full 6kW. When I go for a longer drive, I use the EVSE charger to reach 100%.
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Lately my 2020 SR/F charges to 98% now. Or rather it says 100%, but the moment I unplug it, it shows 98%. Sigh. Latest firmware, dash, and brand new latest chargers in it now too. It's certainly a "quirky" bike. I don't really trust it as far as I could throw it but it is a damned nice ride.
Cas :)
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Regarding all this witchcraft about calibrating SOC etc... how exactly would anyone envisaging this actually working? How do you discharge to 0%, when the 0% you are looking at is calculated from a voltage lookup table (presumably with temperature) which you're trying to calibrate against? It makes no sense. The only way I can see any of this working is that Zero have produced a set of LUTs against pack voltage and temperature and they're in the BMS firmware. No amount of charging and discharging is going to change those tables.
Cas :)
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Zero (0%) Percent - is the LOWEST voltage the manufacturer of the battery pack says you should EVER allow it to drop to.
For a,lets say 300 volt bike, like the Energica, this might be 280 volts, is the 0% State of Charge Point.
One Hundred (100%) Percent - is the HIGHEST voltage, and typically the recommended voltage that a manufacturer of a battery pack says you should EVER charge the batteries to. For the same 300 volt bike, this might be around 330 volts, is the 100 % state of charge.
Anything you do that pushes the actual voltage above or below these two points, (280 - 330 volts), is out of tolerance and very likely DAMAGING your batteries.
LiPo's (Lithium Polymer Batteries, which is what most the manufacturers use due to the energy density. Some may call them Li Co, which is short for Cobalt) do NOT like being pushed outside their voltage envelopes AT ALL, and can damage very easily when you do so!
If you are charging and it's showing 100 percent, and when you remove the charge, it very quickly drops to 97 or 98 percent. Armchair troubleshooting, that right there tells me that you have an aging / failing battery pack, or a pack with a damaged cell, or arm that got way out of whack on balancing. The charger is 'pushing' it to 100 percent by impressing on the bad cell / bank until it's voltage rises high enough to meet the normal 100 percent, but that is just a surface charge. The moment you take that external energy away, it quickly falls to it's real voltage, 97 percent charged.
Surface charge means there is very little energy density in it, you may show volts, (which is how it determines your SOC on charging for the most part), but no real (proper) chemical action is happening, so after a short rest, or a very brief use, that surface charge quickly dissipates, and the REAL, at rest voltage of the batteries appears. (One that is proper and chemically stabilized) (think of a mug of beer and drinking the foam sitting on top of that mug, which would be the surface charge), THEN actually getting to the REAL beer. Is there some beer in that foam? well, yah, but not much. The foam will disappear very quickly, and the glass will drop from being 100 percent full to 97 percent full.
Aaron
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Regarding all this witchcraft about calibrating SOC etc... how exactly would anyone envisaging this actually working? How do you discharge to 0%, when the 0% you are looking at is calculated from a voltage lookup table (presumably with temperature) which you're trying to calibrate against? It makes no sense. The only way I can see any of this working is that Zero have produced a set of LUTs against pack voltage and temperature and they're in the BMS firmware. No amount of charging and discharging is going to change those tables.
Cas :)
Did you read my link about the "flags" for low and high SOC? Obviously not.
(https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/eCDg3MjtAnSFq6Ox.medium)
-Don- Reno, NV
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If you are charging and it's showing 100 percent, and when you remove the charge, it very quickly drops to 97 or 98 percent. Armchair troubleshooting, that right there tells me that you have an aging / failing battery pack, or a pack with a damaged cell, or arm that got way out of whack on balancing. The charger is 'pushing' it to 100 percent by impressing on the bad cell / bank until it's voltage rises high enough to meet the normal 100 percent, but that is just a surface charge. The moment you take that external energy away, it quickly falls to it's real voltage, 97 percent charged.
I agree there, it does sound more like a normal charger with a battery that cannot accept a full charge because of a shorted cell or whatever.
Did I hear there is no way to check the cell balance on a SR/F?
-Don- Reno, NV
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DonTom, I do not own one of these, nor have access to one currently so can not honestly comment on that.
BUT, if one has access to software that scans the battery pack, they might be able to, OR if they have access to the innards of the battery they absolutely can!
I do want to add though, if it IS a cell that has been pushed past it's normal charge range, by flexing / forcing it even more to go past that point, it is just causing more damage to it. It is also slightly over charging the rest as well when you go to 'displayed' 100 percent SOC because the reality of it is, you are probably bringing the pack NOW to about 105 percent SOC, due to the others having to go slightly higher to compensate for it. Let me also add, that by making it goto 100 percent, you are adding an artificial voltage to the battery grid, and when that outside force is taken away, the batteries will want to go back down to what they should be at, according to their chemistries, they will do this by discharging thru that low cell, which will create a lot of heat on that cell. should that one cell decide to finally give up the ghost for good, short internally and vent, it's all bets off then what happens next, although we all pretty much know already.
In the average life of a battery, even one that is being cared for properly, the top and bottom 10 percent of the charge is causing probably close to 50 percent of the wear on that battery pack, that range is where most the wear / damage occurs on the battery. This is why you see cycle charts that will show something like 3000 cycles at 100 percent dod, and maybe 5000 to0 8000 or more at only 80 dod (you are no longer using that top and bottom 10 percent). This also helps in the event that you DO have one battery that is a little weak, you are no longer pushing it into it's high stress zone, you are keeping it within manu specs for that individual cell.
Aaron
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Regarding all this witchcraft about calibrating SOC etc... how exactly would anyone envisaging this actually working? How do you discharge to 0%, when the 0% you are looking at is calculated from a voltage lookup table (presumably with temperature) which you're trying to calibrate against? It makes no sense. The only way I can see any of this working is that Zero have produced a set of LUTs against pack voltage and temperature and they're in the BMS firmware. No amount of charging and discharging is going to change those tables.
Cas :)
Did you read my link about the "flags" for low and high SOC? Obviously not.
I have a strong suspicion that article is full o' shit and that it works the way I described. You cannot calibrate something if you have no datum to measure it against. There are only two readings you can realistically measure from a battery - its voltage, and its temperature. Now tell me, how do you know you're at 0% or 100%?
Cas :)
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I have a strong suspicion that article is full o' shit and that it works the way I described. You cannot calibrate something if you have no datum to measure it against. There are only two readings you can realistically measure from a battery - its voltage, and its temperature. Now tell me, how do you know you're at 0% or 100%?
Cas :)
If it is all BS, it sure is well accepted BS. If you have a manual for a laptop, read it. Just about every one of them mentions how to calibrate to SOC. If it can be done on a laptop, why can't it be done on a EV battery?
And also tell Energica they are full of it, as such a message can pop up right on the screen telling you to fully discharge and charge to full to calibrate the SOC. At least in my 2020 SS9-. IIRC, I have also seen the message one time on my new Experia already, but I could have been confused with my SS9-, as nor real sure which bike I was riding that time.
So IMO, the only question remaining is can the Zero SOC be calibrated the same way as other stuff.
-Don- Reno, NV
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No.
Nothing to see here...
Move along people !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW6RWSiR88s
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Just to be clear:
- When the bike only charges to 97%, the charger is still connected, just showing zero amps and kW. So its not a drop when swicthing on to motor off somewhere.
- The bikes a premium with the added 6kW charger, but its only using one of the 3kW changers from a 13A/240V (UK) domestic supply when this has happened.
Im taking it to the dealer tomorrow.
Thanks guys for discussion
pete
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It's entirely possible that it is trying to do its balance cycle. During this, you wouldn't necessarily see any constant power added as the BMS is potentially burning off excess charge from one or more 'high' cells in order to bring it in line with the rest of the pack.
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I have seen data between 93 and 112. Currently it says 104. This is more than 20% delta.
It should never be anything other than 114.
I would like to disagree. Please also look at https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10424.0 I have seen in August 2020 a value of 109 where remmie got 106 and Hans2183 got 112. This is by no means constant 114. Since I log data on a regular base I know for soure that at least my data for pack_capacity_ah is changing over time (see my chart reflecting the last 3 years)
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Yep it's definitely inconsistent. Definitely should read 114, though.
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Al my packs where around 85- 95…
(edit - with "my packs" I mean the 2020 14.4kwh. I had 3.)
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The 11.4 is 88Ah
The 12.5 is 100Ah
The 13 is 104Ah
The 14.4 is 114 Ah
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Yep it's definitely inconsistent. Definitely should read 114, though.
I am not an expert, just observing things since I sit on a ton of data I pulled from OBD2. My observation is, that there is a correlation between reported pack_capacity_ah and SOC as well as reported range. The calculation of SOC and range is potentially incorrect since there is no reason for pack_capacity_ah to be so inconsistent. I am guessing, that Zero does some magic calculation to estimate the current value of pack_capacity_ah to put degradation into account. But this is just a guess. All I know for sure is, that the calculation sucks.
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Right, and I'm just letting you know the values of the cells as used by Zero and reported to the bike during a normal use-case. The 14.4 cells are 32Ah as set by Farasis; if you look at a 3.6 single brick it will have a sticker that says 32Ah. But Zero caps them to 28.5Ah. 4 modules = 28.5 x 4 = 114.
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That's pretty common with many battery manu's / end users, they'll hold 10 percent of the total cap for themselves to make up for normal wear and tear / MINOR issues etc with the battery and it still makes it's warranty claim after it's 3 or 5 years. The main thing that will save their ass (or not) is if they designed their BMS intelligently to protect the battery properly. If you put the battery heater on the dmz side of the bms, you are setting yourself up for failure... as an example. Hello Kilovault.... If your bms cuts out a battery at low voltage but STILL itself siphons from it, yah, have fun when your pack is at 0.3 volts. Yes those manual resets are annoying but Do serve a purpose.
On range, unless you drive the same way every time, every day and the temperature is the same, bla bla, the bike does not have a crystal ball to give you a correct range. Your range bounces around so much because it's trying to re calculate based on what you just did recently. Will you continue that? or just one more time, or the rest of the trip?
For the range. all the complaints, do they tend to be
A. It keeps reporting too short a range, it said I had 30 miles when I had 50 or
B. It keeps reporting too much range, it said I had 50 and I died at 30?
personally Id rather have it report short knowing I had a bit of a buffer rather than being stuck somewhere and spending 100 bucks on a tow truck or jump shot.
Aaron
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On the Zeros, I think most of the range estimation complaints actually stem from the SOC calculation being buggered in the first place.
Cas :)
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so explain buggered.
Is it too high, is it too low. it can ONLY be one of those. but then again I can see the brits bitching because it was accurate ::)
Since the griper seems to have this 'knowledge' of 'something' about the range, that they'd make that comment, then they surely can commit to stating whether the bike is reporting too high or too low in it's reporting.
Aaron
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Thanks for interesting discussion. I suspect the answer is in here somewhere. Thanks MVetter for the point that 0 Amps and 0 Watts may be the battery leveling up internally.
Anyway, dropped into dealer but could only have brief discussion as I was late on a long trip. The Dealer (Davant, Torquay, UK) said that my symptoms were of a poor cell and that I should book the bike in soon to get in the queue for a replacement battery. He also said that this was common in the early 19/20 SRFs and that he had three waiting already. His temporary fix: reset the BMS.
Message seems to be if you've got an early 14.4 battery, you might want to take it be checked out at the dealer if you've got strange SOC / charging issues. But not before me please :-)
On the long trip I discovered that it would charge to 100%, but then as someone suggested, dropped to 97% as soon as start riding. I also found the magic charging issue come back strongly, which was a real piss off as it was saying I had much less range than after leaving for 20 minutes.
Am I right in thinking the new batteries have far less issues like this?
pete
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I have not heard any rumblings of the magic charge issue with the new packs. Which is very good news.
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If the battery bank does have a bad cell it will be very easy to push that one cell into a way high voltage state to get the overall 'row' or bank and overall battery pack voltage to be where it says 100 percent charged. However this is just a surface charge on that battery, if it's charged past it's capacity while it may hold a tiny minute bit of energy which shows a higher voltage, the moment you start drawing off it, that extra will immediately go away and the cell will drop back to it's normal 'working range' voltage, which if it's bad, will be lower than the rest. Also note that having a bad cell in a bank will also affect the charging of the batteries on either side of it as well and this problem will get cumulatively worse as the damage it can cause spreads. So it shows 100 percent but after maybe a mile all the surface charges drop off and you are your real voltage, which it equates to 97 percent.
Undercharging is typically not an issue with Liths, as long as you don't go below their Minimum recommended voltage, unlike lead acids, nicd, nimh they do NOT have to be fully topped off each charge and / or kept there floating like lead does. However with a damaged / bad cell, you can pretty much guarantee you taking at least that one, below where it is safe to do so.
Battery balance will often show as 0 a 0 v, as mentioned because it is often internal. The current is flowing between each individual cell in the overall bank to balance them all out, NOT so much taking new energy in from the outside, so no real way to measure that easily. In the case with the energica I believe they also do a lesser value, 'topping off' charge with new power being introduced at the same time the batteries are also moving current around between themselves to make everything happy. When all is done, they are all at their peak voltage and ALL at the same voltage.
THIS seems to be an issue with these bikes. Has anyone figured out what is causing this one group of cells to go bad in the overall pack on these? Are they tapping these to provide 12 volts or something to the brains of the bike and that is taking it's toll over time or what exactly? Seems odd that a batter would have the same, rather unique fault, across many units.
Aaron
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From Davant:
Sounds like what we call a battery crimp issue, its known and resolved by replacing the battery with a 2022+ BCB type, this will be 14.4kw unlocked to 15.6kw, and is a way better battery all around.
We will need your motorcycle back here for some data pull, this will include logs + other data stats, juts to prove to Zero that this motorcycle is now due a battery change.
I wouldn’t overall worry about the log pull via app, for some reason it pulls to a file format that we cannot open,
Please let me know when your free and I can pull the data for you, we will be pulling full logs so can take a few hours.
Once a case has been opened, batteries are take a few months to be issued.
Cas :)
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Wow, I wish I could get communication like that from my dealer! Two weeks+ in the shop, and they are still running "diagnostics"? Give me a break.
Edit, I spoke too soon. Called today and got the good news that a battery has been approved/ordered. Now the wait...
I'm in an especially bad mood since my Ioniq 5 (a little over a year old) is in the shop with a dead ICCU board and fuse (in the shop an hour away from my house, died last night).
Steve
From Davant:
Sounds like what we call a battery crimp issue, its known and resolved by replacing the battery with a 2022+ BCB type, this will be 14.4kw unlocked to 15.6kw, and is a way better battery all around.
We will need your motorcycle back here for some data pull, this will include logs + other data stats, juts to prove to Zero that this motorcycle is now due a battery change.
I wouldn’t overall worry about the log pull via app, for some reason it pulls to a file format that we cannot open,
Please let me know when your free and I can pull the data for you, we will be pulling full logs so can take a few hours.
Once a case has been opened, batteries are take a few months to be issued.
Cas :)
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Funnily enough my Ioniq 5 is going in tomorrow to be assessed by insurance monkeys after I lent it to my wife and she "parked" it.
Cas :)
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In the last couple of months my bike, an early 2019 SR/F, has stopped charging at 97%, not going to 100% despite being left all night. It seems stuck at 97% with zero Amps or kW input, even after leaving it for an extra hour or so.
I normally charge to 65% and boost it the day before if I think I've got a longer ride, so its not often I do 100% charge.
Anybody got some advice before I start the dreaded "contact the dealer"?
Thanks
pete
Different bike, but I just fully charged my 2017 Zero SR. It showed as 96% SOC at full charge, bike keyed off. Green light on steady, no blinks, contactor open. I disconnected all the charging stuff and turned on the bike.
I was using two Delta Q-chargers along with the OBC at 240 VAC.
When I turned on the bike, it then only showed as 94% SOC.
So I decided to measure the voltage. That 94% SOC shows up as 116.0 VDC on the battery.
I look up the normal voltage for 100% SOC in the unofficial service manual. It says at 100% SOC the battery voltage should be between 115.9 and 116.20 VDC. I am at 116.0 VDC. That tells me my SOC is off, it should show as 100% when it only shows up as 94% SOC.
I have no idea why my SOC is so far off, but the voltage clearly shows there is no battery problem.
So I am not going to be concerned.
I have not ridden this bike for a while in case that has anything to do with it.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Funnily enough my Ioniq 5 is going in tomorrow to be assessed by insurance monkeys after I lent it to my wife and she "parked" it.
Cas :)
Good luck. Quite a few of the I5's failing due to ICCU unit failures from what I understand. Seems like they should probably do a recall (kind of like 2020 SRF batteries :) ). I do love the car though, it was a great year until Tuesday.
Steve
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- the bike charges up to 100%, does the loadbalancing and shuts down the charging session (dashboard is off)
- Next morning you switch on ignition. Dashboard indicates 97%
I tried to re-charge again. The bike kicks off a charging session and charges with very low Amps may be 60 seconds. After this the SOC jumps to 100% in the dashboard and stops the charging session.
Exactly the same with me:
SR/F Premium with aditional fast charger, showes 98%. Charging at home with 3 phase 400V 16A.
In my case it already does it sometimes 1 h after finishing the charging (completely shot down).
That behaviour started after installing the newest firmware.
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- the bike charges up to 100%, does the loadbalancing and shuts down the charging session (dashboard is off)
- Next morning you switch on ignition. Dashboard indicates 97%
I tried to re-charge again. The bike kicks off a charging session and charges with very low Amps may be 60 seconds. After this the SOC jumps to 100% in the dashboard and stops the charging session.
Exactly the same with me:
SR/F Premium with aditional fast charger, showes 98%. Charging at home with 3 phase 400V 16A.
In my case it already does it sometimes 1 h after finishing the charging (completely shot down).
That behaviour started after installing the newest firmware.
My 2020 SR/S does the same. Initaially thought it was the smart wallbox, but apparently it wasn’t. I called my dealer and he said that many people are experiencing the same issue after the recent firmware update. Zero is working on it..
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This is an indication of the battery problem that plagues some (but it starts to look like a lot) 2019-2020 and the early 2021 14.4 batteries. It has nothing to do with firmware. The more you ride the sooner it will reveal itself. It will only worsen.
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Dealer informs me that basically Zero are replacing all of the MY19/20 14.4 batteries with the new 15s as they all, eventually, develop the issue. I suspect there are some tense meetings with Farasis going on behind the scenes.
Cas :)
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Dealer informs me that basically Zero are replacing all of the MY19/20 14.4 batteries with the new 15s as they all, eventually, develop the issue. I suspect there are some tense meetings with Farasis going on behind the scenes.
Cas :)
Interesting. I guess that's assuming a "crimp" problem would be internal to the cells and not the assembly process by Zero (probably a good assumption). On the positive side, with a new 15.6 battery, my '19 will basically be a new bike (when I eventually get it back).
Question for '19 owners who have already gone through the replacement (US), since the bike is out of warrantee but the battery is not, does the owner have to cover anything out of pocket for the replacement?
Steve
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steve, given it IS warranty, Id like to say they should not BUT some dealers are slimy shits, and not just that bike brand either, so may try to crap you on some BS 'fees' if they, raise total hell until they take it off your bill. The manu should cover ALL of that and anything else is them trying to wring gravy out of it.
Aaron
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Dealer informs me that basically Zero are replacing all of the MY19/20 14.4 batteries with the new 15s as they all, eventually, develop the issue. I suspect there are some tense meetings with Farasis going on behind the scenes.
Cas :)
If, as you say, ALL batteries eventually develop the problem, I would expect an official recall and replacement of ALL batteries, not just the ones that do within the 5 year warranty.
What would happen if the same defect occurred at 5 years and 6 months?
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Not sure if this video has been posted by anyone else at the forum (or probably IS someone from this forum), but this video was a clear explanation for me about the SR/S / SR/F 14.4 magic charging, SoC issues, this actual charging issue and the correlation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf0e_nJ5ojg
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My new "power pack" and associated hardware has arrived at my dealers. Hopefully I can get the bike back next week! It's only been a little over three weeks so far, that's not as bad as I expected (of course I don't have the bike just yet). 2020 SR/F purchased in July of 2019.
Steve
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just had confirmation of a new battery, may be 3 months.
Also had front disks replaced with EBC ones as still so warped after two replacements.
havent had the bill yet (aaaagh...)
Thanks all contributors, pete
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Exactly same here! So September sort of time for fitting.
You'll like the EBC discs, way better than OEM. Brakes feel awesome, haven't warped again since.
Cas :)