ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: Specter on April 27, 2023, 08:10:22 AM
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Hello everyone. Getting ready to tighten my chain here.
The directions look pretty straightforward, even a tard like me should not mess this up too bad :D
question is. Does the bike have to be up on blocks / chocks to tighten the chain or can I do it with wheels on the ground and bikes weight on them? When I loosen the wheel axle bolts, is it going to spring or anything and lurch one way or another that will become an issue to reseat to where it needs to be to retighten?
also, and yes I know each chain / bike is different etc, but if the chain is not like totally flapping and slapping loose, about how many flats does it typically take to get it back in specs, 3 or 4? or 3 or 4 complete turns on the bolt???
Thank you
Aaron
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Chris has told me it does not need to be suspended to be adjusted. You can adjust it on the ground.
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Thank you morgan.
that makes life a little easier until I get my lifters and other gear to work on the bike in a more proper fashion. I wish I would have known all this stuff before I bought the thing, Id have ordered it all up front and not playing catch up later :)
Aaron
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujoYSEDoHmU
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Unfortunately the explanation in the video is different from what the manual says.
That was discussed at length in another thread some months ago and the general consensus was that both methods appear to be OK as tightening the chain is not rocket science.
Just avoid overtightening as this puts a lot of strain on the bearings - damaging them is very expensive.
Tightening the wheel nut with 70 Nm according to manual, 80 Nm according to the video - should not be a problem either way.
I had to tighten the chain about 3 times now (16000 km on the odo now). It was 1/6 every time (just the 'next face' of the hexagonal nut) on both sides.
Axle nut can be loosed without problems. I do this work with the bike on the backstand - bought an extra-slim wrench for that.
After doing all this, sit on the bike and roll forward and backward to allow the stuff to settle, then check the chain tightness again. Might be, that it is now a bit too tight - that shoud be avoided.
After 16000 km my chain has lenghened approx. 1% according to my gauging tool. I plan to have it replaced against a Regina HPE at the next opportunity.
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you get a bit of play in the chain, for an 'acceptable range'.
How critical is the tightness as far as dead on the perfect zone?
An overly loose chain, causes noise, some power loss, and a bit more wear on the chain and sproket maybe?
An overly tight chain, can stress those and take out the bearing, yah very expensive there!
Let's say your chain IS a little over tight. How harmful is that? Will it kill you in 500 km? or just a little which will pretty much stretch itself back out again in probably those same 500 km is not a big deal?
For each face you took the nut in, how many mm of slack did it take out of the chain?
sorry for all the stupid ?'s I plan on keeping the bike for a long time and want to make sure im doing everything right here.
aaron
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I used to get very anxious and overthink this issue.
Just measure it so that is meets manual specs.
After doing this a few dozen times, you develop the sense so your eyeball and finger are calibrated close enough with actual measurement. Better slightly loose, never ride when too tight.
These videos are helpful.
Chain alignment cannot be judged by swingarm markings if you want precision. Misaligned chain will wear the chain and sprockets and tires more rapidly than needed, and will affect handling.
Motion pro tool is a cheap and easy solution.
https://www.sportbiketrackgear.com/motion-pro-chain-alignment-tool-08-0048/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjJCLACcKWs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYuXSppaiKM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUhF9He5_Wo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6OPG_cFms
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Let's say your chain IS a little over tight. How harmful is that? Will it kill you in 500 km? or just a little which will pretty much stretch itself back out again in probably those same 500 km is not a big deal?
For each face you took the nut in, how many mm of slack did it take out of the chain?
An slightly overtight chain will not kill you nor cause instant damage, but you know that already. Damage will happen over time in the appearance of high wear.
Sprockets wear out (shark teeth) and chain lengthening will speed up. That is the damage you can see and measure.
What concerns me most in this scenario is the damage to the bearing of the axle where the drive sprocket sits. You cannot see it and you cannot gauge its wear.
Bearing theory says that misalignment can shave off lifetime exponentially. So for me overtightening is to be absolutely avoided.
Turning the nut 1/6 took out about 3-5 mm of slack if memory saves me well.
The Ribelle has a 525 chain with 112 links. Pitch of a 525 is 5/8'' or 15,875 mm which results in a total chain lenght of 112 x 15.875 = 1,778 mm.
Measuring with a chain ruler, my chain is now approx. 0,5 % lengthened which is nearly 9 mm, more than half a chain link. Without tightening that would be quite a slack.
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Good stuff @jotjotde !
This video of a too loose chain outcome ... watch till the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZWjwHgveY
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Man that chain was hanging off for a while there, i wonder what made it finally catch?
If he had one of those airbag vests / jackets on, I wonder if it would have detected that and set them off as he went over the handlebars? Glad to see he wasn't too tore up in that. The bike now. hmmmm
Aaron
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Thank you for your advice everyone. I got my chain tightened w/o much issue. Wow, that bitch was 6 mm loose! Span was supposed to be 30mm mine was at 36. I got it at 29 now. that last 1 mm is a sob to try to eyeball dial in 1 mm so that should be close enough IMO.
One other thing they should tell you in the videos is that if you loosen the chain at all you need to tap the wheel / bang it with a rubber mallet, or roll the bike slightly to ensure that it is fully engaged with the tension adjuster plate by the screws.
Aaron
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@Aaron: After retightening did you notice a difference in the noise the chain makes? I think mine got louder but that might be because I cleaned it and there is less noice cancelling dirt on the chain. :D
At next opportunity I will get me a Regina HPE chain which is at least low maintenance (their earlier claim to be maintenance free was apparently too optimistic).
My dealer told me he has installed one already on an EsseEsse and the owner is very happy with it.
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Good stuff @jotjotde !
This video of a too loose chain outcome ... watch till the end.
This video it not about a lose chain, but a chain braking... that is something completely deferent.
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jotjot YES, i was hearing a lot of chain noise, like metal contact noise, it actually concerned me.
I took the bike for a romp around the block and could absolutely hear the noise while riding, which I did NOT like.
Maybe my paranoia kicked in but it felt like the bike was handling different as well.
I took it home and RE checked everything and instead of 30 the chain was measuring 28 mm. So I went thru and re did the entire procedure,absolutely double checking everything and my measurements, centering bla bla. I got it at 31 mm now and it's nice and quiet, well a lot quieter and seems to be running well. It appears if you are going to be off a bit, looser is absolutely the way to go.
I got a brush, some cleaner and lube coming from revzilla here hopefully today or saturday and will clean the chain and re lube everything over the weekend, will let you know how it all goes.
Aaron
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@Aaron: I share your paranoia ;D
I am not sure, where actually this noise comes from. It's definitely somewhere under me, that rules out the back sprocket. Suspects are the drive sprocket or one of the the chain guides.
Going to be a rainy weekend here - so, no riding for me. Time to check everything and give my chain a full-scale wellness treatment. Maybe that will make things a bit more quiet.
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it's like a buzzing / metal contact / interact, gear meshing type of noise that increases it's freq as the speed goes up. If it was just rubbing the freq would not really increase linerally like it does with speed,so that tells me its more like an engagement type noise. Like the chain interacting with teeth on the sproket. Like a slight misalignment or no grease, the 'click' as they mesh and everything couples as it makes the turn.
check the length of the gap on the tightening screws from the swingarm as well BUT, there is no guarantee those were perfect to begin with. With that, you can always take the bike to any bike shop and ask them if they could squeeze you in real fast to check the chain tension. It's literally a 5 minute job for someone who knows how and I think they'd do it real quick.
aaron
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A friend had the same unidentified noise. It turned out that chain was constantly sliding over the lower chain guide (that one that sits on the swing arm in the triangle lower opening). He was disassembling it, reducing material thickness and the sound was gone. My Ribelle did no have that noise at all - we nether compared and nether identified differences.
Needless to say that the tension was checked and adjusted, even playing with upper/lower tolerances.
However that might be an indication that you might want to consider…
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@most & aaron
Thanks for your valuable input! In my case the noise comes mainly from the lower chain guard as well as a bit from the front sprocket. As both appear to be OK, I am pretty sure this is not life-threatening but a minor nuisance.
After a bit more than 16,000 km both sprockets show some washout (see attached pic) - I plan to exchange them together with the new chain and probably the noise will be reduced then as well.
For everone insterested here are some infos ('22 Ribelle RS):
Chain:
Manufacturer Regina
Pitch 525
Links 112 (might be different on your bike)
Front sprocket (appears to be same as for Aprilia Tuono V4):
Manufacturer PBR
Type 2078
Teeth 15 (RS - non-RS has 16 teeth)
Pitch 525
Alternative: 1. JT Sprockets JTF704 or 2. AFAM 61801-15
Rear sprocket:
Manufacturer AFAM
Type 92630
Teeth 44
Bolt circle: 100 mm
Nuts: 5x M10
Pitch 525
Alternative: Superlite 92630RX
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Interesting...The Experia has a totally different setup, it uses a 520 chain & sprockets, original gearing is 15/52 and runs a 120 link chain. I found the speedo to be a fair way out so I fitted a 16t front sprocket and this made it near perfect, within 1kmh of actual GPS.
Having difficulty finding a rear sprocket for it....Front sprocket is easy, just an Aprillia RSV or Tuono item. I bought a DID ZVMX 520 chain and will be fitting it when the time comes.
Smithy.
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Having difficulty finding a rear sprocket for it....Front sprocket is easy, just an Aprillia RSV or Tuono item. I bought a DID ZVMX 520 chain and will be fitting it when the time comes.
If besides the 520 pitch the specs of the Experia rear sprocket are similar to the other Energicas (100 mm bolt circle, 76 mm inner diameter) then you might find some match with older Suzukis (e.g. 1200 S BANDIT 2005), albeit made of aluminium not steel.
Found this (https://www.mykettenkit.de/kettenrad-mka1617-alu-18868) on a German website but I think it's more or less self-explaining.
Otherwise there is the possibility to get something custom-made, main body of the sprocket is aluminum and the teeth ring is made of steel (e.g. UK company supersprox.com). You even have the chance of getting a colored sprocket 8)
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Info for anyone wanting to change the front sprocket at home: You need a special tool for removal of the fixing nut with 4 grooves. It is a KM5 socket.
BTW I decided to let the workshop change sprockets and chain because I don't want to buy tools I need once a year or even less.
I will get a Regina HPE to see if this is really as low-maintenance as it is advertised.
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I don't even bother to measure chain and belt slack. I just make sure they feel right to me. I doubt if they are off by much by me doing it such a way. I have a good idea what too tight or too loose feels like without measuring.
-Don- Turlock, CA
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Wow you are such a stud, I want you to have my children....
Aaron
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Found this (https://www.mykettenkit.de/kettenrad-mka1617-alu-18868) on a German website but I think it's more or less self-explaining.
Thanks for the info....They don't ship to Australia unfortunately.
Smithy.
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Postage would be about 75 to 90 USD but if they ship to the US, I could snag it and relay mail it to you. I ship to Austrailia, and pretty much anywhere else around the world that the USPS does.
Aaron
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Postage would be about 75 to 90 USD but if they ship to the US, I could snag it and relay mail it to you. I ship to Austrailia, and pretty much anywhere else around the world that the USPS does.
Aaron
Actually found one on fleabay, from France .....but thankyou anyway.
Smithy.
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So, im looking for spools / sliders to put on the bike to do this with. it'd be easier to jack it up to clean the chain etc.
With that, is the Energica 6 or 8mm, and what spools have any of you used? I am seeing several out there and am also seeing that a few of them, they are saying that they are probably not strong enough given the Ribelle's weight, so curious what others are using.
Thanks
Aaron
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So, im looking for spools / sliders to put on the bike to do this with. it'd be easier to jack it up to clean the chain etc.
With that, is the Energica 6 or 8mm, and what spools have any of you used? I am seeing several out there and am also seeing that a few of them, they are saying that they are probably not strong enough given the Ribelle's weight, so curious what others are using.
Thanks
Aaron
I have these, work well. 8mm
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/woodcraft-swingarm-spool-sliders?sku_id=516539
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/woodcraft-spool-spacer?rrec=true
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7sClYwVXfY
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I like this setup... are the spacers 8mm or 10?
Nevermind, I see 8mm now....
Thanks!
Joe
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Since Energica's stands are sold out and it might... be june before they come in, im thinking of getting these stands.
Pretty sure they will work, the oxfords have a decent write up on them.
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/oxford-premium-rear-paddock-stand?sku_id=1095269
and the front one as well
aaron
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If you want the best, go for the PitBull
https://www.pit-bull.com/energica
Get a stand with the longest handle extension you can find. You need leverage to lift that weight.