ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

Makes And Models => Lightning => Topic started by: HoodRichOG on March 18, 2023, 11:51:39 PM

Title: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: HoodRichOG on March 18, 2023, 11:51:39 PM
Invest in Lightning at a $80M valuation!

https://netcapital.com/companies/lightningmotorcycle

 ;D
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: MVetter on March 19, 2023, 12:09:17 AM
According to the audit documentation, their lease with Corbin expires June 1, 2023.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: HoodRichOG on March 19, 2023, 02:12:58 AM
I saw that but the report is for 2021 not 2022... Wonder why.

It also says they have a measly 40k cash on hand and like 2.5M of inventory??

Make it make sense..
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: MVetter on March 19, 2023, 03:34:06 AM
Also in 2020 they sold $150k of motorcycles and $175k the following year.

That would come out to just under 4 LS-218s one year, or a little over 7 Strike Carbon Editions or some mix in between for 2020. The following year would be just over 5 LS-218s or just under 9 Strike Carbon Editions or a mix in between. If I'm reading this right.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: GS-A-Day on March 19, 2023, 11:09:07 PM
Website https://lightningmotorcycle.com says "Lightning is located in 2360 Technology Parkway, Hollister, CA 95023." This is the building of Corbin motorcycle seats: https://www.corbin.com/projects/contact_ca/

Are they in the same building? A Google Map search does not show "Lightning" on the building anywhere.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: MVetter on March 19, 2023, 11:21:46 PM
Website https://lightningmotorcycle.com says "Lightning is located in 2360 Technology Parkway, Hollister, CA 95023." This is the building of Corbin motorcycle seats: https://www.corbin.com/projects/contact_ca/

Are they in the same building? A Google Map search does not show "Lightning" on the building anywhere.


...

According to the audit documentation, their lease with Corbin expires June 1, 2023.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: ultrarnr on March 22, 2023, 04:34:40 AM
So today I got the second email in less than a week from Lightning hoping I will invest in them. Guess they decided to try their luck on mass emails in hopes that someone will decide to throw money at them. The netcapital web site claims Lightning has raised a whopping $16,600 out of the nearly 5 million they are hoping to raise by the end of April. I think Lightning will be lucky to raise enough money to move into a new building somewhere. Also saw that their web site claims that the basic Strike is sold out through 2023.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: HoodRichOG on March 22, 2023, 07:38:39 AM
Of course it's sold out lmao.

I wonder how many reservations they actually have, I didn't see anything in the investment prospectus regarding that.

Wild how they got 16k while lacking basic info... Even Damon has given some reservation numbers!
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: MVetter on March 22, 2023, 07:49:49 AM
Well. I can't know anything for sure but I will tell you the amount raised value hasn't changed since it was posted several days ago.

Also that exact amount can be seen in a static graphic that appears to be the basis for that page: https://netcapital.com/files/b3cbfff1-5ad6-4d1b-93e3-696e3de4d21a/offeringpage.jpg
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: ultrarnr on March 28, 2023, 04:17:10 AM
So Lightning has now raised $25,069.00. Considering it went from 16,600 to 17,600 to about 19,600 it looks like a few folks are willing to send a grand or two Lightnings way. Sure is a long way from the 5 million they are hoping to raise.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: HoodRichOG on March 28, 2023, 04:38:18 AM
I like how they project Strike sales at 60K units a year.

A number that truly makes sense...
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: ultrarnr on April 13, 2023, 01:30:13 PM
So another email this morning from Lightning bragging about how fast their bikes can charge and with a link to their netcapital page where it shows they have now raised $38,829.00. Here is the body of the email:

Even with charging stations widely available today, slow charging can still require over an hour and some vehicles still require hours to recharge.

Lightning has developed the Lightning-Fast Charge System which can charge a motorcycle to 80% in 10 mins, more than 5 times faster than our competitors.

Lightning's Fast Charging capability is a game-changing technology. Reducing charge time to the time it takes to refill your gas tank is one of the best ways to increase EV adoption worldwide.

Lightning is the first and the only motorcycle company offering true fast-charging capabilities!

There is only a limited time remaining for our community to have the opportunity to own a piece of Lightning. With your investment, Lightning can truly change the world by bringing world-class Lightning motorcycles to the masses!
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Richard230 on April 13, 2023, 07:10:38 PM
What a joke!  If their batteries could really accept a charge that fast they should sell their patents to a major battery manufacturer and make a real fortune. Time to get out that toilet plunger and clear the drain before your big chance to invest in the company is gone.   :'(  I wonder what you get for your donation to Lightning? Lunch with the CEO, perhaps.  ::)
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: MVetter on April 14, 2023, 04:56:41 AM
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/lightning-crowdfunding
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: ultrarnr on April 14, 2023, 05:13:38 AM
Here is the link to the charging video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md9rPJ9GD2A
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Richard230 on April 14, 2023, 06:04:16 AM
I sure wouldn't give anyone any money based upon that lame video.  ::)
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Specter on April 14, 2023, 08:49:08 AM
Im calling QA  BULLSHIT,  but on that.
Yes there ARE batteries that can huff a charge that fast.   Ive played with LiPo Packs and RC cars / planes / helicopters etc in the past, not the cheap toys but some costing thousands of dollars.    With that said..

They do have lipo packs that can do bursts of like 300 C or such for a short while, AND recharge in as little as 15 minutes.  While this bike may not need that kind of power feed, the charge IS possible BUT...... it generates a gob ton of heat and the life on those batteries is not very much, a few hundred cycles maybe?    AND    they are EXTREMELY prone to going up in flames real quick.

Ive seen a pack just do the woof and puff, just sitting on the table 2 days AFTER the charge.  (Probably more dendrites than the Mammoth Caves).  I personally would NOT want that thing anywhere in my house, let alone under my ass crack at 80 MPH when it decided to let loose.  I wonder what color a Hydrogen - Methane flame would produce  :o  :o

Aaron

on a side note, im surprised Revzilla is linking that CF there,  they seem otherwise a pretty reputable place.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: motociclista on April 15, 2023, 07:41:03 PM
@Specter, did you read the RevZilla article?
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: ultrarnr on April 23, 2023, 02:54:15 PM
Another email from Lightning making note that there are only 5 days left in their fund raising campaign. So far they have only raised $44,563.00. Doubt that will go very far. The amount has increases have been a few thousand or a few hundred dollars at a time. Seems like other riders or individuals, no big sugar daddy out there wanting to throw large amounts of money at Lightning. The email includes a photo of a Strike charging at an EA station. Interesting to note the wear marks on the back tire. Doesn't look like the bike shown as even been ridden on the road.  Probably just a demo used only for photo ops.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: MVetter on April 23, 2023, 09:05:32 PM
Nah that picture actually started circulating about a month ago and they've used it several times. It's a new owner in San Diego named Gregory.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: DonTom on April 24, 2023, 01:51:24 AM
What a joke!  If their batteries could really accept a charge that fast they should sell their patents to a major battery manufacturer and make a real fortune. Time to get out that toilet plunger and clear the drain before your big chance to invest in the company is gone.   :'(  I wonder what you get for your donation to Lightning? Lunch with the CEO, perhaps.  ::)
Lightning has been the king of vaporware, IMO. I would like to hear some facts instead of BS. Such as their charge rate and useable KWH of the battery. Are they claiming they can charge faster than an Energica on CCS, which is around 25 KW?


-Don-  Tucson, AZ
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: ultrarnr on April 24, 2023, 04:13:53 AM
DonTom, The short answer is yes they are. Watch the video, I posted the link earlier in this thread. Its only 43 seconds long and recommend you pause and start it each second once the charging begins. As far as charging speed goes it hits a high on 104kw. But it constantly fluctuates up and down in power. At one point at 68% SOC it hit a low of 3kw but only for a second before going back up. It would be really hard to say what is the average speed of charging just because of the constant fluctuation in charging speed.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: DonTom on April 24, 2023, 10:46:21 AM
DonTom, The short answer is yes they are. Watch the video, I posted the link earlier in this thread. Its only 43 seconds long and recommend you pause and start it each second once the charging begins. As far as charging speed goes it hits a high on 104kw. But it constantly fluctuates up and down in power. At one point at 68% SOC it hit a low of 3kw but only for a second before going back up. It would be really hard to say what is the average speed of charging just because of the constant fluctuation in charging speed.
Yeah, I saw the 104/105 KW charge for a few seconds. That is the easy part. The more difficult part is getting the battery to not blow up while it is charging.


IMO, that video was just more of Lighting's vaporware. It will never hit the market.



-Don-  Tucson, AZ
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Specter on April 24, 2023, 06:07:41 PM
What's the life of a battery you are charging at 5 to 10 C?
If the charge rate is bouncing like crazy, something is NOT working properly.  Many chargers would kick it out at that point.

I can see them ramp up to a high number as the charger is, lets call it 'flexing' to get a field /  range, then settling back down to what is being asked for and I can see doing a cyclical around that number of a few KW maybe, but surging like that NO NO !!  That shit will pop a lipo in short order

Aaron
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Richard230 on April 24, 2023, 07:26:46 PM
What's the life of a battery you are charging at 5 to 10 C?
If the charge rate is bouncing like crazy, something is NOT working properly.  Many chargers would kick it out at that point.

I can see them ramp up to a high number as the charger is, lets call it 'flexing' to get a field /  range, then settling back down to what is being asked for and I can see doing a cyclical around that number of a few KW maybe, but surging like that NO NO !!  That shit will pop a lipo in short order

Aaron

Maybe that is why the video is so short.   ;)
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Brammofan on April 26, 2023, 03:48:50 AM
https://www.rideapart.com/news/664124/lightning-motorcycle-equity-crowdfunding-campaign/
Rideapart has an article about it.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: HoodRichOG on April 26, 2023, 09:13:01 AM
The crowdfunding campaign doesn't seem to be going too well so far..

I find it amusing how Lightning values itself almost 3X more than Energicas parent company valuation.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Specter on April 27, 2023, 07:53:13 AM
IKR.  so you are worth tens of millions, yet begging for table scraps from the biker bums???

Something don't pass the beemer bike rider sniff test here.

Aaron
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: ultrarnr on April 28, 2023, 01:30:20 PM
Only 21 hours left! The pot is up to $61,269.00.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Richard230 on April 28, 2023, 07:05:39 PM
Only 21 hours left! The pot is up to $61,269.00.

I wonder how much of that money was donated by company officials or employees (if they actually have any)?  ::)
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Specter on April 29, 2023, 10:41:13 PM
Kind of like the dope dealer that is his own best customer, and then wonders why he don't have all the neat stuff the other dealers have.

Aaron
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: HoodRichOG on April 30, 2023, 10:59:26 AM
did they change the close date of the funding?
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: MVetter on April 30, 2023, 01:30:27 PM
Appear to have upped it for another month.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: HoodRichOG on April 30, 2023, 07:40:52 PM
The demand to participate in the funding was so high they extended it for another month! Amazing.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: ultrarnr on May 01, 2023, 02:46:33 PM
They raised just over $70,000 in one month and hoping to reach nearly $5,000,000.00. At this rate it will take them nearly 6 years to reach their goal provided there is a steady supply of people willing to throw a few hundred to a few thousand dollars at Lightning.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Specter on May 02, 2023, 01:51:24 AM
Think if they built 6 bikes with that, sold them, used the money to build 10 more, sold them, then 20 more sold them 50 more etc they'd be rich by the end of the year!!

Aaron
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: ultrarnr on May 02, 2023, 01:40:50 PM
If Lightning were to build a few bikes and loaned them to a few moto journalist for a week or two so they could write about them I'll bet they could sell a lot of bikes. But in all the years that Lightning has been around they have never noticed how other bike companies try to market their bikes.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: NEW2elec on May 02, 2023, 07:26:36 PM
They did that.  They took the 218 on Leno, some guy in a dual sport helmet did that old excelration video that was goofy but impressive.  Then came the Translogic video where the bike kept shutting down.
And down goes Lightning.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: DonTom on May 03, 2023, 06:42:36 AM
Do we want to see Lightning survive?  I cannot make up my mind if that would be good or not at this point.


I don't think the other electric bike companies, such as Zero and Energica need more competition.


BTW, I once asked a Salesman at Eurocycles why they do not try to be an Energica dealer. They do sell Zero, which is not European, so just by their name I would think they would want to sell European such as Energica.


I was told those into electric bikes are not that many and they do not want to be competing against themselves in such a small market.


But I hear Energica doesn't yet make enough bikes to supply many dealers anyway.

-Don-  Yuma, AZ

Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: MVetter on May 03, 2023, 06:56:14 AM
There are 3 EuroCycles in Florida that are Energica dealers.

edit- the Netcapital page is gone.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: ultrarnr on May 03, 2023, 01:38:07 PM
My dealer sells both Zero and Energica. Was going to sell Alta before they went under. They had actually reached out to Lightning about being a dealer for them but never got a response back. I think the Strike had potential to sell and I think it would be good to see Lightning survive. But as we saw with Zero sometimes the leadership that brought the company to life and got it going is not the best ones to take the company to the next level. But Lightning is structured differently that Zero was and I don't think that the change that is needed can or will ever happen. I think Lightning will continue to flounder in obscurity and at some point die off. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Richard230 on May 03, 2023, 07:27:27 PM
It seems to me as if the guy that owns and runs Lightning is more into spreading hot air than building and selling electric motorcycles.   ::)
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: DonTom on May 04, 2023, 02:57:43 AM
It seems to me as if the guy that owns and runs Lightning is more into spreading hot air than building and selling electric motorcycles.   ::)
Yeah, I noticed that also. I recall the first time I saw an advertisement about Lightning, and I thought that was one hell of a bike. Since then, I discovered what they advertised probably does not even exist. I think it was more a concept than a real bike that we can actually buy.  And that was many years ago.


It was as if they were advertising what we all wanted to hear.


BTW, does this exist? (https://staging.lightningmotorcycle.com/strike-r/) Read the specs. 12-minute charge time to 80%, etc.  What is the life expectancy of such a battery?


-Don-  Yuma, AZ
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: MVetter on May 04, 2023, 03:23:32 AM
Well they posted a video where they claimed 0-80% in 10 minutes and then when you watched the video it showed 30-71% in 11 minutes. Actually you know what here you go:

https://youtu.be/SDMNGBL8rh0?t=35

Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Motoproponent on May 05, 2023, 10:41:43 PM
It seems like Lightning could turn it around with some transparency. They claim to hold all these records for production electric bikes but never demonstrate that they are production bikes. Like if a record is legit, just say how many bikes you have produced instead of Hatfield's smoke and mirrors and shell games about all the happy lightning owners that only post on the "real" owners forum. Posting pics of bikes with no plates pretending to be one of the many that are out in the wild at a charger. Sometimes posting certificates of origin and calling it a title. Moving production to the broom closet in the back of Corbin's shop doesn't help sell the idea that they are making more than 2 or 3, "temp spec" bikes a year. 

I mean even Nikola trucks is recovering from the "rolling the model down the hill" scandal by coming clean.

I would love to support a struggling disruptor as consumers always benefit from competition, but don't cash my check and lie about what you're (not) producing) with it. I have a lot of friends here in the bay area in startups in all kinds of sectors. Everyone recognizes when a CEO plays by Skully's play book. Lightning, Damon, even Verge a little bit, all look like they are vapor ware venture capital mills.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: MVetter on May 05, 2023, 10:49:40 PM
I suspect one of the major issues comes from Richard not understanding that the word, Production, has an actual meaning/definition. Here's a wiki page on it which lists the different rules for cars which is probably the same for bikes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Production_vehicle) The way Richard uses the word leads me to believe that as long as he or his employees are building a bike it is being produced or 'in production'. Building = producing = production. But that's not how it works. So, again, I suspect they use those words because they legit don't know any better.

But that's my theory.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: HoodRichOG on May 05, 2023, 11:05:15 PM
Yep I agree.

The only time I've ever seen a Lightning in real life was when they had that open house at their old San Jose facility. Never seen one outside of that.

As for Nikola, I saw one this week on Highway 17 and it was going uphill!
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Richard230 on May 06, 2023, 03:23:01 AM
The first time I saw a Lightning motorcycle was at the 2012 Plugin Day at a college parking lot in Santa Clara. Photo attached.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Richard230 on May 06, 2023, 03:25:40 AM
They returned to the show in 2013 with a larger display and a van with photo cells on the roof.
Title: Re: Flush your money down the toilet or...
Post by: Richard230 on May 06, 2023, 03:31:41 AM
And then they were back at the show in 2014 with what was claimed to be a less expensive street-legal model that they said that they would be manufacturing to sell to customers that just wanted something to commute on. I seem to recall that I was told that the price of the bike would be around $16,000, or so. Another Lightning model that went nowhere - to my knowledge.