ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: DonTom on February 18, 2023, 10:40:00 AM
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I confirmed it is true, the CCS fast chargers I use the most on my 2020 Esse Esse 9- which work perfectly with it, will NOT work at all on my 2023 Energica Experia.
What happens is it gets stuck on the initiation screen and never goes to charging.
I tried to charge here (https://www.plugshare.com/location/217070)with CCS, I ended up using the J-1772 and charged at 3KW. I really didn't need the charge, I had enough juice to get home after my 104 mile / 167km ride today. But I wanted to see for myself. I hear this is a ChargePoint issue, not so much Energica. I heard that CP's new FW is not meeting all the criteria requirements for CCS and it only effects very few vehicles, the Experia being one of them. I hope it gets fixed soon.
If all Experias will try to charge on such and leave a note on Plugshare that they couldn't charge, perhaps it will help with getting a fix faster.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I confirmed it is true, the CCS fast chargers I use the most on my 2020 Esse Esse 9- which work perfectly with it, will NOT work at all on my 2023 Energica Experia.
What happens is it gets stuck on the initiation screen and never goes to charging.
I tried to charge here (https://www.plugshare.com/location/217070)with CCS, I ended up using the J-1772 and charged at 3KW. I really didn't need the charge, I had enough juice to get home after my 104 mile / 167km ride today. But I wanted to see for myself. I hear this is a ChargePoint issue, not so much Energica. I heard that CP's new FW is not meeting all the criteria requirements for CCS and it only effects very few vehicles, the Experia being one of them. I hope it gets fixed soon.
If all Experias will try to charge on such and leave a note on Plugshare that they couldn't charge, perhaps it will help with getting a fix faster.
-Don- Auburn, CA
This will be a top priority. Mention this to the guy here on Twitter and he may post about it. He has a lot of influence with charging companies!
https://youtu.be/4UdwkDy0nKE
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Those chargers don't work for the 21.5 bikes either. Guess Energica changed something in the charging behavior between the older and newer bikes.
Anyone know why charging is so finicky on the Energicas in general? I've never had a problem with CCS on my Chevy unless the charger is broken.
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Setting up my charging apps, turns out they don't know what the Experia is, it's the Green Tourer.
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I left a note under the guy's YouTube about the CP incompatibility issue with the 2023 Energica Experia with CP's latest FW.
But I wonder why they work perfectly with my 2020 SS9-. What is the big difference between the two? Voltages are the same, aren't they? Why should it care about the size of the battery when it is larger than my 2020 SS9-?
BTW, today I did my first fast charge with EV-GO. No problems at all. On Plugshare right here. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/96118)
Photo of my bike and all.
BTW, I have been riding it all day again. I just love the way it feels on windy roads. And has good enough range to ride with ICE bikes, as I did today.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I’ve only used ChargePoint’s 240v AC chargers and those have been fine. I’ve only seen one ChargePoint CCS charger in the wild and that one was broken. I usually have issues getting older CCS chargers to work but while on my Labor Day weekend ride to Reno most of my charging stops had the newer Electrify America (or was it EVGo?) CCS chargers and those worked without issue.
IMHO if the CCS network keeps improving like the newer Electrify America units, Tesla’s Supercharger network advantage will disappear in a couple of years. I’m looking forward to trying a Supercharger once it’s opened up to CCS vehicles to see if I’ll be able to successfully charge my Ribelle.
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On my current trip I have had two CP CCS chargers work and two that didn't. Unfortunately many of the screens were so beaten up I couldn't access the machine to check the firmware to see if that is the problem. EA was my go-to on the ride down and I didnt have problems until I got to the LA area (two or three that would not connect or only charge at 8kw. EVgo has been more reliable in the last couple of days but less prevalent.
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I think part of all the incompatibility issues you are seeing is in part, also, due to insurance and liability.
In Fast charge, the charger kind of takes over some of the 'overhead' of the charging process. So with that, your car has a bad battery and goes woof, in today's sue happy society, that don't matter it's YOUR FAULT, because I don't want to pay for the new car, (even though the problem was me) so I'll get some sleazebag lawyer to sue sue sue !!
The companies have to protect themselves from the whiplash wangs wandering around out there so probably want to know a great detail about the vehicle being charged so they can display 'due diligence' to ward off one of these lawsuits. Granted most vehicles the vehicle itself will be the 'master' controller of the charge evolution, but just in case it comes across one that isn't and has to go into 'general baseline bluebook protocol' to charge it's battery... or one that the comms are not working perfectly etc. By knowing beforehand the exact specs of what it was told it is charging, it knows how to handle it.
Not to mention, this keeps programmers in a job because they have to constantly update the database every time a new model or change comes out. Job security you know ! :D
Aaron
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I’ve only used ChargePoint’s 240v AC chargers and those have been fine. I’ve only seen one ChargePoint CCS charger in the wild and that one was broken. I usually have issues getting older CCS chargers to work but while on my Labor Day weekend ride to Reno most of my charging stops had the newer Electrify America (or was it EVGo?) CCS chargers and those worked without issue.
IMHO if the CCS network keeps improving like the newer Electrify America units, Tesla’s Supercharger network advantage will disappear in a couple of years. I’m looking forward to trying a Supercharger once it’s opened up to CCS vehicles to see if I’ll be able to successfully charge my Ribelle.
Most of the CCS chargers on I-80 from Loomis to Reno are EV-Go. No EA's that I know of, and I am glad of that. I like to use the cards to activate the chargers and EA requires a Smartphone, they are the only ones that I know of that do not have a card (Tesla doesn't count as those Superchargers read your VIN). I do have to carry a lot of EV charge cards, but that is no issue to me. I also have the Smartphone with all the EV charge companies on it, but I normally have it off.
There are countless CCS chargers in the wild in this part of CA. I have a directory for them on my GPS for each electric bike. I keep adding them to it from Plugshare for the areas I will be riding in.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I thought I got this working a month ago but today, 1st time since, I tried for 20 mins on 2 different chargers. "DC fast charge Initialization" on the bike and "waiting for EV" So still very disappointing.
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I thought I got this working a month ago but today, 1st time since, I tried for 20 mins on 2 different chargers. "DC fast charge Initialization" on the bike and "waiting for EV" So still very disappointing.
I take it those are the new ChargePoint CCS stations with both plugs on the right side of the charger.
That was the exact same issue I had when I tried to charge up with a new ChargePoint CCS station. "Waiting for EV." I assume would wait for years, if I didn't disconnect.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I had the most amazing, unbelievable experience today Electrify America. Pulled up with no expectation of anything working. No one was anywhere near the 4 stations, the 1st one I picked showed working but my app said it wasnt. I moved over one, started the app, plugged in and in 30 mins I went from 38% to 85%. No issues at all. Maintained about 15kw the entire time. So, not sure what this means but I was extremely happy.
I know this isnt a Chargepoint but this is the 1st time I was able to charge without a phone call or giving up.
Joe
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I had the most amazing, unbelievable experience today Electrify America. Pulled up with no expectation of anything working. No one was anywhere near the 4 stations, the 1st one I picked showed working but my app said it wasnt. I moved over one, started the app, plugged in and in 30 mins I went from 38% to 85%. No issues at all. Maintained about 15kw the entire time. So, not sure what this means but I was extremely happy.
I know this isnt a Chargepoint but this is the 1st time I was able to charge without a phone call or giving up.
Joe
The newer Chargepoints, the ones that will not work with my Experia, work the best of all on my SS9-.
EA depends. Perhaps on their FW version also. Some work very well and some will not work on Energica bikes at all, no matter what is done. It is usually helpful to NOT read the instructions on the CCS charge station. That is where our bikes get in trouble. Never plug in first, and ESPEALLY on the machines that say they require such for the charger to work! With AE, best to first activate on their app wait a few seconds and then plug in to your bike. I think the bike times out too fast for the charger on the initiation screen.
But there is at least one exception.
I have seen a few chargers where we really must plug in first, but those few always seem to work. IIRC, those were EV-Connect, common here in NV.
So what you have to do at different charge stations to make them work with our bikes, it is not only different between charge station companies, but also with their models of charger and FW version. Sometimes I spend almost as much time trying to get a CCS machine to work as I do for the entire charge. A couple of times, I gave up and made it to the next charge station which worked on the first try.
FWIW, I have also seen CCS chargers that would work on my bike that would not work on a car.
You kinda have to remember what works best for each location and even that can change when they update the FW.
I also hear it is best to have the kickstand away from the charger as there is a better connection to the pins on top that are the most critical to get the charger to start. IOW, so the weight of the cable is not pushing down on the plug.
CCS is usually kind of flakey at best.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I had the most amazing, unbelievable experience today Electrify America. Pulled up with no expectation of anything working. No one was anywhere near the 4 stations, the 1st one I picked showed working but my app said it wasnt. I moved over one, started the app, plugged in and in 30 mins I went from 38% to 85%. No issues at all. Maintained about 15kw the entire time. So, not sure what this means but I was extremely happy.
I know this isnt a Chargepoint but this is the 1st time I was able to charge without a phone call or giving up.
Joe
yeah when a quick charger works on the first try with my energica it feels like i won the lottery. unfortunatly this is a rare occurance and it is very stressful getting a charger to work
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Hmm, so putting the kickstand on one side .vs. the other gives a gentle tug to the cable to make a better connection and the thing works.
firstly that's just terrible engineering there, but anyways.
maybe make some sort of spring attachment on the bike you can like bungee wrap around the cord at the plug head or something and, for lack of a better phrase.. wrap it, tension it, and pull to the left, to force the cable to engage in a 'better direction'. All of this contraption can easily coil up under the seat.
Some of ya'all are very creative, if this genuinely IS a problem of concern, this seems like it can be an easy fix.
Just my 2 watts worth.
Aaron
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Those chargers don't work for the 21.5 bikes either. Guess Energica changed something in the charging behavior between the older and newer bikes.
Anyone know why charging is so finicky on the Energicas in general? I've never had a problem with CCS on my Chevy unless the charger is broken.
Chevy Bolt? When I was in Borrego Desert State Park, an older Bolt tried to use the J-1772 at the library. It would NOT plug in. Look at the top of your charge port on your Bolt. See that metal thingy? That was preventing it from plugging in the J-1772. Do you know what that thingy is and why it would prevent some J-1772's from plugging in?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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On my Chevy Spark the silver metal thingy is the latch for the CCS handle when DC charging. It should have nothing to do with AC charging. Maybe it was stuck or something. I'm in Borrego Springs and have been using that charge station at the library on my Zero. The Spark has had a history of not working on EA BCC brand chargers. They got that fixed but now it doesn't work on EVgo. There are EVCS level 3 chargers in Oregon that won't work on the Spark either so sadly, Energica isn't the only EV with compatibility issues. I think Level 3 comunication is much more complicated than Level 2. You can spoof a level 2 station with just a small diode and resistor. Some people say just the resistor will do it. I can charge my standup scooter on a level two charger, lol.
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On my Chevy Spark the silver metal thingy is the latch for the CCS handle when DC charging. It should have nothing to do with AC charging. Maybe it was stuck or something. I'm in Borrego Springs and have been using that charge station at the library on my Zero. The Spark has had a history of not working on EA BCC brand chargers. They got that fixed but now it doesn't work on EVgo. There are EVCS level 3 chargers in Oregon that won't work on the Spark either so sadly, Energica isn't the only EV with compatibility issues. I think Level 3 comunication is much more complicated than Level 2. You can spoof a level 2 station with just a small diode and resistor. Some people say just the resistor will do it. I can charge my standup scooter on a level two charger, lol.
Yeah, I also wondered if that thingy was stuck. I just looked at my 2022 Chevy Bolt. It also has that thingy, but in a much different position than the Bolt at the library down there. That is my Zero DS in the photo there. Is the other photo of the elctric bikes show one of yours?
There is no true communication from J-1772 other than the pilot signal to tell the car how many watts/amps to reduce its charger to, if any. I use external chargers on my Zero that ignore the pilot signal and can simply charge to the max., even if it shuts down the J-1772 charge station. Yes, it only takes a resistor to activate J-1772. The diode doesn't do much, AFAIK. J-1772 is simply an AC source as is an AC outlet inside of a house. Nothing complicated about it.
OTOH, level 3 CCS has to be as complicated as hell, as it has to work with countless different batteries. J-1772 only feeds the charger inside the EV. The charger in the EV is matched to the battery. It doesn't have to work with any other batteries, unlike CCS.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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No, that's not me at the library. I have a blue SR/S. There is a pic of my bike at Don's Market in Santa Ysabel though.
I use an adapter I built to run external chargers on my Vectrix and on my previous Brammo Empulse and whatever. I have shut down a couple of charge stations also. There is always some level of anxiety when I use DCF chargers. I have had to resort to level 2 a couple of times and the Spark is only a 3000 watt OBC. Keep a book in the car, ha ha
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The metal thingy is a lock to keep the cable plugged in while charging I am betting. Safety feature. Yes they can get stuck, especially if someone interrupts a charge cycle and does not understand that the thing needs to be 'released' and tries to Neanderthal the locked in place cable out, bending it, before going. OOOOhhhh.. so THAT's how that works !! sometimes software can get buggy and not release it properly either, but yes it might be in the locked position and you are trying to plug the cable in with it essentially.. in the way.
Aaron
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The metal thingy is a lock to keep the cable plugged in while charging I am betting. Safety feature. Yes they can get stuck, especially if someone interrupts a charge cycle and does not understand that the thing needs to be 'released' and tries to Neanderthal the locked in place cable out, bending it, before going. OOOOhhhh.. so THAT's how that works !! sometimes software can get buggy and not release it properly either, but yes it might be in the locked position and you are trying to plug the cable in with it essentially.. in the way.
Aaron
Yeah, I am thinking the same, it was probably forced out when locked. And now because of how it is stuck, it prevents a J-plug from going back in.
-Don- Reno, NV
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If you removed it I am sure it would work fine BUT !!!!!
God help you if that plug is pulling some amps and you wiggle it loose and start drawing an arc across it, it will quickly spread and flash I would pretty much guarantee, at that point you got a huge mess.
I hit a DC arc at about 50 volt with maybe 180 amp on a genset I was playing with and it made a nice mess. I don't want to think of what a bike at 300 volts or worse a car at 850 volts will do when you pull apart contacts with that current flowing thru it.
Also, because of the way stuff works, I would be willing to bet, that the current cutoff won't be instantaneously either, it might take a second or so for something to realize, hey.. im not charging anymore, lets shut down, and that essentially lets you potentially be exposed to the high voltage. Brass and copper is not steel, you start arc welding and it's going to bloom and splatter quite nicely id imagine.
Aaron
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Thinking about this, I learned the dance for my SS9 on EVGO. I had to have the bike on for at least a minute or so, have the charging session activated for several seconds then to plug in. I had 5 tries to figure this out. I wouldn't make the handshake from not already having the bike on or after just starting the charging session. I hope this improves over time. This was with their 50kw charger version( https://www.plugshare.com/location/63491 ).
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Thinking about this, I learned the dance for my SS9 on EVGO. I had to have the bike on for at least a minute or so, have the charging session activated for several seconds then to plug in. I had 5 tries to figure this out. I wouldn't make the handshake from not already having the bike on or after just starting the charging session. I hope this improves over time. This was with their 50kw charger version( https://www.plugshare.com/location/63491 (https://www.plugshare.com/location/63491) ).
You must be Aaron.
Is your SS9 also a 2020 model? I never had a problem with EV-Go, and I never tried to charge with the bike on and I am wondering if that really made any difference. The wait before plugging in (and especially where it says to plug in first!) I find is necessary. But I still hope you're right about keeping the bike on makes a difference as that is something I can try with the new ChargePoint's that I never tried. I really want those new Chagepoints to work on my Experia as they are in my favorite locations to charge just about everywhere.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Nope, that is not me, im in Florida, that link is pulling up california for me.
They do have a few chargers around town here, I really should try some of the fast chargers just to see if they work.
Im flipping a coin back and forth about getting one for my garage, but jesus, 10 grand for a charger is a bit steep. I just want a 10k or 20k one. Feed it with a 100 amp feed off the 240 mains and were good. I can put up to 400 amp service in here, when they built the house, I had them pull the cable for it, but just have it hooked for 200 Amp now. the box is there, just connect to it. I already knew I was going to be doing the solar thing and knew Id be playing with power,just not that id be charging a bike :D
Aaron
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Nope, that is not me, im in Florida, that link is pulling up california for me.
They do have a few chargers around town here, I really should try some of the fast chargers just to see if they work.
Im flipping a coin back and forth about getting one for my garage, but jesus, 10 grand for a charger is a bit steep. I just want a 10k or 20k one. Feed it with a 100 amp feed off the 240 mains and were good. I can put up to 400 amp service in here, when they built the house, I had them pull the cable for it, but just have it hooked for 200 Amp now. the box is there, just connect to it. I already knew I was going to be doing the solar thing and knew Id be playing with power,just not that id be charging a bike :D
Aaron
Why are you in such a hurry for a home charge? I use a Tesla Wall connector, a little less than 12KW for my Tesla and then I use a Teslatap for J-1772 for my Chevy Bolt and any of my electric motorcycles. I find that is always fast enough for me when home. When on the road, at least 50 miles from home is where we normally want fast.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Aaron
Why are you in such a hurry for a home charge?
-Don- Reno, NV
Because the Energica charges 3kw to 3.5 MAX with an AC wall charger. Yes my converted level 1/2 charger will handle 40 amps BUT, the bike will only allow 13 to 14 max that I seen since on AC it's actually the bike's charger that is doing the work. I run to my friends house and thats 30 to 35 percent off the battery. We want to go riding, I don't want to diddle around for 2 hours waiting for it to get close to back up top, Id like to hit it for maybe 20 minutes and get there. My house intentionally runs hot, I can push 255 volts on my mains, that helps a little bit. Everywhere else, especially in older neighborhoods, it's pushing 220 to 230 volts on the main, less when you load it. times the 13 amp max, even more time to charge.
I also plan on getting an electric truck too eventually when they settle out and the wait time is not a year on them, it'd be nice to home charge that at a decent rate too so i don't HAVE to pay 50 cent / kw hr at a charger or wait in line at a charger etc. I charge at home on my own time. I have solar and a nice big battery bank. This would work well for me.
Aaron
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Because the Energica charges 3kw to 3.5 MAX with an AC wall charger. Yes my converted level 1/2 charger will handle 40 amps BUT, the bike will only allow 13 to 14 max that I seen since on AC it's actually the bike's charger that is doing the work. I run to my friends house and thats 30 to 35 percent off the battery. We want to go riding, I don't want to diddle around for 2 hours waiting for it to get close to back up top, Id like to hit it for maybe 20 minutes and get there. My house intentionally runs hot, I can push 255 volts on my mains, that helps a little bit. Everywhere else, especially in older neighborhoods, it's pushing 220 to 230 volts on the main, less when you load it. times the 13 amp max, even more time to charge.
I also plan on getting an electric truck too eventually when they settle out and the wait time is not a year on them, it'd be nice to home charge that at a decent rate too so i don't HAVE to pay 50 cent / kw hr at a charger or wait in line at a charger etc. I charge at home on my own time. I have solar and a nice big battery bank. This would work well for me.
Aaron
OIC. Perhaps the best way to handle that is to ride irritatingly slow to you friend's house, if possible. Even a fast charger will not make up for the time differences lost from higher speeds.
-Don- Reno, NV
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my friend is getting an e bike too, we both will have a charger. Nothing wrong with charging with a decent speed unless of course only certain people are allowed to have the better toys?
I drive to his shop at least once a week to pick stuff up, until we both actually DO get a charger and only I have one, no problem at all dropping the charger off there on a friday afternoon, he takes it home, plugs it in, i come by charge in the morning and we head out for our romp around town.
At the end of the ride, I can charge at his place again if I want while we have a few beers and wind down and chat a bit more, his brother generally shows up about that time too and we just BS. If there is a fast charger there, then YES we CAN do our trip down to St Augustine and play around a bit, and I won't have to be worried about showing up at his place with 20 percent charge or so, instead of say 35 or so, so I can make it home. It will allow us to make our trip and not worry about being able to find a charging station that works. Unlike california, or nevada.. florida does not have a fast charger ever few miles.
We've discussed this AND planned our trips on mileage and being able to possibly trickle some juice in here or there. Since I just fiddle around mostly during the week, slow charging on AC is not an issue during the weekday. Again, eventually when I get my electric truck, this charger will work very well there too.
sorry it does not fit in with your plans but it works for me.
Aaron
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Nope, that is not me, im in Florida, that link is pulling up california for me.
They do have a few chargers around town here, I really should try some of the fast chargers just to see if they work.
Im flipping a coin back and forth about getting one for my garage, but jesus, 10 grand for a charger is a bit steep. I just want a 10k or 20k one. Feed it with a 100 amp feed off the 240 mains and were good. I can put up to 400 amp service in here, when they built the house, I had them pull the cable for it, but just have it hooked for 200 Amp now. the box is there, just connect to it. I already knew I was going to be doing the solar thing and knew Id be playing with power,just not that id be charging a bike :D
Aaron
Aaron, Aaron, nice to meet you!
Thinking about this, I learned the dance for my SS9 on EVGO. I had to have the bike on for at least a minute or so, have the charging session activated for several seconds then to plug in. I had 5 tries to figure this out. I wouldn't make the handshake from not already having the bike on or after just starting the charging session. I hope this improves over time. This was with their 50kw charger version( https://www.plugshare.com/location/63491 (https://www.plugshare.com/location/63491) ).
You must be Aaron.
Is your SS9 also a 2020 model? I never had a problem with EV-Go, and I never tried to charge with the bike on and I am wondering if that really made any difference. The wait before plugging in (and especially where it says to plug in first!) I find is necessary. But I still hope you're right about keeping the bike on makes a difference as that is something I can try with the new ChargePoint's that I never tried. I really want those new Chagepoints to work on my Experia as they are in my favorite locations to charge just about everywhere.
-Don- Reno, NV
Yep, it is a 2020. I had a charger timeout when I plugged it in with the bike not already on.
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Chevy Bolt? When I was in Borrego Desert State Park, an older Bolt tried to use the J-1772 at the library. It would NOT plug in. Look at the top of your charge port on your Bolt. See that metal thingy? That was preventing it from plugging in the J-1772. Do you know what that thingy is and why it would prevent some J-1772's from plugging in?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Ive got Bolt and this happened with my Bolt about a year ago. Turns out it was some kind of a programming error or something. Chevy did a recall or TSB and it was supposed to have resolved the issue. However, the way to fix it was to disconnect the 12V battery. I still have a 10mm wrench in my glovebox in case it were to happen again while I was on the road and had to charge. Considering that in 3 years I think I have only charged once away from home, I should probably put it back in my toolbox.
Writeup I did on Reddit about it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/vatf2u/metal_tab_blocking_j1772_charge_handle_plug_issue/
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Ive got Bolt and this happened with my Bolt about a year ago. Turns out it was some kind of a programming error or something. Chevy did a recall or TSB and it was supposed to have resolved the issue. However, the way to fix it was to disconnect the 12V battery. I still have a 10mm wrench in my glovebox in case it were to happen again while I was on the road and had to charge. Considering that in 3 years I think I have only charged once away from home, I should probably put it back in my toolbox.
Writeup I did on Reddit about it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/vatf2u/metal_tab_blocking_j1772_charge_handle_plug_issue/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/vatf2u/metal_tab_blocking_j1772_charge_handle_plug_issue/)
Too bad you were not there when I was. I had no idea what was going on then. Thanks for the info. in case I ever need it. I never noticed the 12V battery in my 2022 Bolt. I will look for it the next time I am in Auburn, CA at my other house. That will be as soon as the weather gets better over the summit.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I find it amusing that an all electric car, they shove a lead acid 12 volt battery under the hood to run 'the stuff' on it. you couldn't make a conversion pack to take that little power off the main battery? That's GM for you though, about as intuitive as playing baseball with an aluminum bat and a brick.
Aaron
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I find it amusing that an all electric car, they shove a lead acid 12 volt battery under the hood to run 'the stuff' on it. you couldn't make a conversion pack to take that little power off the main battery? That's GM for you though, about as intuitive as playing baseball with an aluminum bat and a brick.
Aaron
Tesla also has a 12V battery. There are advantages and disadvantages to either method. Tesla charges the 12V battery with a DC2DCC. It will run with reduced features even if the 12V battery goes dead. But then it cannot get the OTA updates and such. AFAIK, all electric cars have a 12V battery. What gets me is I hear the Bolt doesn't use a DC2DCC to keep the battery charged. I think I heard it uses an alternator to keep the 12V battery charged. But even that has an advantage. No DC2DCC to drain the main battery when the vehicle sits for months. A Tesla needs to stay plugged in when parked for a long time. They keep the DC2DCC active. AFAIK, it doesn't get turned off ever. My 2022 Chevy Bolt can be left unplugged for months and won't lose any main battery power. I could ruin the Tesla main HV battery if I did that with it, it will drain all the way to zero SOC even though it will turn many features off when it gets below 20% SOC. The Bolt doesn't get OTA updates. In many ways, I think the Chevy Bolt is a better design than Tesla's. I think most of Tesla's updates is just to keep somebody's job at Tesla. Needs a new update about every two weeks or so. My Chevy Bolt never needed an update since the day I purchased it. It doesn't need any "improvements" IMO.
BTW, Tesla went to a lith 12V battery in their newer cars. I put in a Lith 12v battery in my 2018 Tesla. But that can be a hassle too when it gets very cold because the lith battery will then switch off in my Tesla. No 12V battery heater (which will draw even more current when the car sits in the cold) in mine. When it goes dead, I have to go through a ten-minute procedure to get rid of the "low 12V battery" message on the screen. Lead-Acid batteries work better in the cold.
It seems to me no matter what they do for the 12 volts in EVs there are advantages and disadvantages of either.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Now back on topic!
Yesterday, I CCS charged up in Nevada City on a ChargePoint. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/182275) It was model CPE 250, FW version 7.5.0.18. It worked on the first try with no issues.
Today, I went back to the ChargePoint in Colfax. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/217070) It is also a CPE 250 version 7.5.0.18. Same as above. But this one still will not charge my bike. Neither one of the two. But works fine here with other vehicles.
So what is going on? What is the difference between the two ChargePoint locations?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Yesterday I went to a free chargepoint location we have in the Denver area. I have had about a 30% success rate with any CCS charging but I tried something that I thought someone on here said to do and that was not to shut off the bike when I arrive. I pulled up, put the kickstand down, started the charger with my phone, immediately plugged in and it started charging within 20 seconds. In 20 mins I went from 48% to 85% at 18.9kw. Extremely happy.
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Yesterday I went to a free chargepoint location we have in the Denver area. I have had about a 30% success rate with any CCS charging but I tried something that I thought someone on here said to do and that was not to shut off the bike when I arrive. I pulled up, put the kickstand down, started the charger with my phone, immediately plugged in and it started charging within 20 seconds. In 20 mins I went from 48% to 85% at 18.9kw. Extremely happy.
I tried that with the ChargePoint in Colfax, CA. It made no difference, still wouldn't work. The charger will stay on the initiation screen forever.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Had no luck with the DCFC ChargePoint in Twentynine palms, California last night and the ChargePoint at Chiriaco Summit. I’m hooked to the L2. 88 miles
And a climb from the Colorado river before I get to an Electrify America stop. A little longer day than planned.
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Had no luck with the DCFC ChargePoint in Twentynine palms, California last night and the ChargePoint at Chiriaco Summit. I’m hooked to the L2. 88 miles
And a climb from the Colorado river before I get to an Electrify America stop. A little longer day than planned.
One thing nice about Chargepoint is they have a J-1772 at most of their CCS locations. I wish all fast charge locations would include a J-1772 or two. While slow, at least it works every time with every EV made. And I can charge my Zeros with them.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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FWIW - On 7 April I rode my bike to the dealer to see about the extended batter warranty and to get the software updated. I charged at a ChargePoint charger on the way. The software had not been updated since the bike was delivered a year ago. Two software updates were installed at the dealership. The bike is now running FW 0.42, BDY 8.0.1, and DSB 251. On the way home I tried charging on the exact same charger I had used earlier that day and could not initiate a charge after multiple attempts. Fortunately there were level 2 chargers at that site so I was able to make it to some EA charges about 30 miles away. The EA charger worked the first time. I hope that someone at Energica and ChargePoint is working on this incompatibility issue. Most of the CCS chargers in my area are ChargePoint.
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FWIW - On 7 April I rode my bike to the dealer to see about the extended batter warranty and to get the software updated. I charged at a ChargePoint charger on the way. The software had not been updated since the bike was delivered a year ago. Two software updates were installed at the dealership. The bike is now running FW 0.42, BDY 8.0.1, and DSB 251. On the way home I tried charging on the exact same charger I had used earlier that day and could not initiate a charge after multiple attempts. Fortunately there were level 2 chargers at that site so I was able to make it to some EA charges about 30 miles away. The EA charger worked the first time. I hope that someone at Energica and ChargePoint is working on this incompatibility issue. Most of the CCS chargers in my area are ChargePoint.
I recently discovered this issue is inconsistent with the exact same hardware and FW versions between ChargePoint CCS stations.
For an example, the CCS ChargePoint behind the Dash & Dine Restaurant in Colfax, CA will charge my 2020 Esse Esse 9 on the first try every time. But David (a rider from Stockton CA on his Ribelle) and me with my Experia tried to charge there yesterday and it stays stuck in the initiation and never starts the charge.
But the CCS ChargePoint in NV City works on the first try with my Experia. It is the EXACT same hardware and FW as the one in Colfax. I checked all that very carefully and I could find NO difference other than this one worked but the one in Colfax did not work with my Experia.
So I have no idea what the issue is.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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FWIW - On 7 April I rode my bike to the dealer to see about the extended batter warranty and to get the software updated. I charged at a ChargePoint charger on the way. The software had not been updated since the bike was delivered a year ago. Two software updates were installed at the dealership. The bike is now running FW 0.42, BDY 8.0.1, and DSB 251. On the way home I tried charging on the exact same charger I had used earlier that day and could not initiate a charge after multiple attempts. Fortunately there were level 2 chargers at that site so I was able to make it to some EA charges about 30 miles away. The EA charger worked the first time. I hope that someone at Energica and ChargePoint is working on this incompatibility issue. Most of the CCS chargers in my area are ChargePoint.
I recently discovered this issue is inconsistent with the exact same hardware and FW versions between ChargePoint CCS stations.
For an example, the CCS ChargePoint behind the Dash & Dine Restaurant in Colfax, CA will charge my 2020 Esse Esse 9 on the first try every time. But David (a rider from Stockton CA on his Ribelle) and me with my Experia tried to charge there yesterday and it stays stuck in the initiation and never starts the charge.
But the CCS ChargePoint in NV City works on the first try with my Experia. It is the EXACT same hardware and FW as the one in Colfax. I checked all that very carefully and I could find NO difference other than this one worked but the one in Colfax did not work with my Experia.
So I have no idea what the issue is.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I tried one of my local "Evie" CCS chargers on my Experia over the weekend, wouldn't work, like yours it just stayed in the "initializing" screen. There's a group of 4 charge points at this particular venue, two were occupied by Tesla cars, the other was occupied by a Nissan EV, all were happily charging away. I didn't take note of the hardware or software version of the charge point though. :-\
Smithy.
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I just thought about something. Perhaps the ChargePoint issue is something else. Try using a Chargepoint when your charge is above 75% SOC. Mine was when I was in NV City. Perhaps the CPs want to see a higher voltage than our batteries put out by the time they need a charge.
However, that still won't explain why they work on my SS9 but not my Experia.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I was at 76% and tried to use the Chargepoint DCFCs in Santa Maria, CA today (CPE250 software 7.5.0.18).
Failed as expected, so I called tech support and they did the reboot, remote start, switch to the other charger, reboot, remote start again. No luck. They claimed this will be reported to Chargepoint, the station owner, and Energica. I hope so.
I was only 2 miles from home but wanted to test it and make sure Chargepoint logs the problem. Anytime I have a charger problem I have decided to call the support line to be sure they know about the issue and I log the failure on Plugshare.
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I was at 76% and tried to use the Chargepoint DCFCs in Santa Maria, CA today (CPE250 software 7.5.0.18).
Failed as expected, so I called tech support and they did the reboot, remote start, switch to the other charger, reboot, remote start again. No luck. They claimed this will be reported to Chargepoint, the station owner, and Energica. I hope so.
I was only 2 miles from home but wanted to test it and make sure Chargepoint logs the problem. Anytime I have a charger problem I have decided to call the support line to be sure they know about the issue and I log the failure on Plugshare.
Thanks for the info. I see your Plugshare log-in here, (https://www.plugshare.com/location/320177) at the Winn Hyundai of Santa Maria.
BTW, did you see my message number 34 here (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12438.msg118480#msg118480)?
-Don- Gila Bend, AZ
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BTW, did you see my message number 34 here (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12438.msg118480#msg118480)?
-Don- Gila Bend, AZ
I did see that one. That is what encouraged me to keep trying other stations and to try at 76%.
One additional note from last evening, I saw an error light on my dash appear very quickly after I plugged the Charge Point into my Experia. The warning shuts off when I disconnect the charger. When I got home and plugged in an OBD2 reader, it showed the error code C1012. My Experia Manual shows that as a "SLAC PROCESS ERROR". Any Idas what that might indicate?
David - Santa Maria, CA
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Just spent about 20 minutes and 3 different chargers with evgo in Parker Co with no luck. Might try chargepoint on my way home.
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I did see that one. That is what encouraged me to keep trying other stations and to try at 76%.
One additional note from last evening, I saw an error light on my dash appear very quickly after I plugged the Charge Point into my Experia. The warning shuts off when I disconnect the charger. When I got home and plugged in an OBD2 reader, it showed the error code C1012. My Experia Manual shows that as a "SLAC PROCESS ERROR". Any Idas what that might indicate?
David - Santa Maria, CA
Sorry, I have no clue on what that could mean. But can a normal car type OBD2 reader be used on the Experia? BTW, where is the OBD port located? I am not near my Experia so I cannot look for it right now.
-Don- Tucson, AZ
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Sorry, I have no clue on what that could mean. But can a normal car type OBD2 reader be used on the Experia? BTW, where is the OBD port located? I am not near my Experia so I cannot look for it right now.
-Don- Tucson, AZ
Don,
OBD-II port on the Experia is behind the left side "flap", just lift it up as you would the other side to charge. Quite convenient actually. I have a few OBD-II readers and all of them will "talk" to the Experia in some fashion...not much can be done using their own software though. I was able to see the bike's software version and erase an "indicator" fault code using an old Autel 308 reader but it could do nothing else that I could find.
Smithy.
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Just spent about 20 minutes and 3 different chargers with evgo in Parker Co with no luck. Might try chargepoint on my way home.
I'm sorry to hear that. Traveling on the Experia from Santa Maria, CA to Phoenix, AZ and back, I used EVgo chargers at six locations and always got a fast 25kw from them. Only once (Victorville, CA) did I have to call the support number to get a remote start. I hope they didn't "fix" something.
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You know.
This reminds me back in the old modem days, the war between K-Flex and X2 .....and of course Hayes standard.
They really NEED to settle on a standard and ALL adhere to it. THAT would make e vehicles so much more attractive to new customers. They all hear how difficult it is to get a working charger, and that scares them. and it should !! Nobody wants to be stranded in Bugtussle, OK.
It just makes more business sense too, WHY would you turn away customers and alienate people? Oh that makes them want to buy MY product because it's all that is supported. umm no that makes them RESENT you because you did that and avoid your product out of anger.... (pay attention Elon).
I mean, it's NOT that hard, pick a protocol and standard and DO IT.
Ok, car and charger have to talk, THIS is the communication protocol..... x,1,3200,4. ADHERE TO IT.
the 'config' file which tells the charger what the car can take has a design, say 10 lines or blocks.
Block 1, port type
Block 2, battery capacity
Block 3, max charge rate
Block 4, top off rate
Block 5, ramp rate
Block 6, finishing charge
Block 7, min voltage
Block 8, max voltage
Block 9, temperature
Block 10, safety crap
Ok ok, you get the idea
The charger now, has a config file so the car knows what it is dealing with.
Block 1, min voltage
Block 2, max voltage
Block 3, max amps
Block 4, max kw
block 5, ramp rate
Block 6, max charge time....
etc ok bla bla you get the idea.
You build a charger you ADHERE to this protocol for your communications.
You build a car you ADHERE to this protocol to TALK to the chargers.
This way, no matter who you are, what you built, it charges properly and EVERYONE benefits.
.json how f hard is it???
Aaron
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How about designing charging stations that only need a regular credit card to activate and pay, without needing to join the charging company's program first and paying a monthly fee? Allow selling electric power at a charging station to be just like the way gas stations sell gas. If has worked for over a hundred years to refuel ICE vehicles, why can't the same payment system work to refuel EVs? I have no doubt that would help to make owing an EV to be much more comfortable for long-time ICE owners.
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That would be real nice but everyone is stuck on internet TARD mode where 'advertising dollars' is the only thing supporting their shitty product. You need to sign up so they can spam you, and pay for their charger if you use it or not, etc etc.
Im getting a 30 kw fast charger for my bike that runs of 240 vac single phase. A gas station could easily order something for THEM, that they can feed from their 480, and maybe do 100 kw or more, without all the 'MY PROGRAM' crap. since it is not having to deal with all the other bullshit of payment methods, club members, the ccs coms are pretty crude, and they tend to work on most everything.
Aaron
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How about designing charging stations that only need a regular credit card to activate and pay, without needing to join the charging company's program first and paying a monthly fee? Allow selling electric power at a charging station to be just like the way gas stations sell gas. If has worked for over a hundred years to refuel ICE vehicles, why can't the same payment system work to refuel EVs? I have no doubt that would help to make owing an EV to be much more comfortable for long-time ICE owners.
There is no monthly fee unless you join a deal, which is cheaper only for those who charge a lot. And it's only a couple of bucks per month. Handy for those who need a fast charge every couple of days or so, from the same type of charger.
On April 19, 2023, I paid direct by my credit card here. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/330185) First time I have ever done that. Many CCS and other charge stations CAN be started with a CC, but many of them do not work. I used my CC on the machine above because Electrify America Chargers do not have their own card and are designed to be used with a Smartphone. I don't even like to turn on my Smartphone unless I really need to.
I see I forgot to check in there, but it works, they charged my CC 48 cents for my CCS charge:
04/10/23 + 8336322778 ELECTRIFY A HUNT VALLEY MD $0.48
I don't know why it was extra cheap, as I charged up several KWHs. But the charge rate in KWs was extra slow, something like 12KW where I usually get above 20KW.
-Don- Tucson, AZ
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Just spent about 20 minutes and 3 different chargers with evgo in Parker Co with no luck. Might try chargepoint on my way home.
With some EV-GOs, do NOT follow the instructions. Activate the charger first and wait BEFORE plugging in. But you cannot wait too long as it will timeout. Wait as long as you can get away with before plugging in to the bike.
I never found a EVGO that didn't work for me. But what you have to do to get it to work varies and can take more than one or two tries.
-Don- Tucson, AZ
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Just spent about 20 minutes and 3 different chargers with evgo in Parker Co with no luck. Might try chargepoint on my way home.
With some EV-GOs, do NOT follow the instructions. Activate the charger first and wait BEFORE plugging in. But you cannot wait too long as it will timeout. Wait as long as you can get away with before plugging in to the bike.
I never found a EVGO that didn't work for me. But what you have to do to get it to work varies and can take more than one or two tries.
-Don- Tucson, AZ
How is the run-of-the-mill public that is just into electric vehicles supposed to deal with issues like that? Of course, around here almost everyone has a Model 3 Tesla, so it is likely they just use Tesla chargers when needed on a trip. My guess is that most of them work just fine.
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Richard, Sometimes I think the biggest enemy of EV adoption is the charging companies who don't seem to really care about installing chargers or whether or not they work. At least it seems that way in North Carolina. A few months ago EvGo removed a single 50 KW CCS charger in a gas station near the RDU airport and I-40 and was never replaced. Now it turns out that Tesla is installing 12-250 kw chargers at that same gas station. There are many more examples just like that in this state. One or two 50-62kw CCS chargers right next to 8 or more Tesla 250kw chargers. If you want to travel east of I-95 to the coast in an EV you will find very few CCS chargers but Tesla has a lot of locations. The example of how to get a charge going at an EvGo station sounds a lot like how to get a charge going at an EA station. Last time I took my Ribelle to the dealer I stopped at an EA station and there was a Porche there that had been trying for an hour to get a charge going. She was not very happy to put it mildly. And yes like you said, Tesla chargers just seem to work. It doesn't matter how fast or how slow you plug in or whatever technique you decide to use they just seem to start charging. In the 3 1/2 years I have had my M3 I have only had a charger not work twice. Simply moved to the one next to it and it worked. No question, there are some really nice EVs on the market now that use CCS. But there is no way I would consider one over a Tesla just based on the difference in charging networks.
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An article in my newspaper today titled "State hits ambitious goal for electric cars" (In California), written by Paul Rogers of the bay area news group, contained a statement that caught my attention. Currently there are 87,707 charging stations statewide, according to the California Energy Commission. However, 1.2 million more charging stations will be needed to meet the projected EV charging demand. Roughly 250,000 are expected to be built by 2026 with funding by the state and private companies. The article goes on to say that "the private sector really takes over the market and these charging providers start making money from charging."
What I wonder is what happens to the publicly-funded charging stations in the future? Will they be turned over to private companies so that they can start making money from charging?
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How is the run-of-the-mill public that is just into electric vehicles supposed to deal with issues like that? Of course, around here almost everyone has a Model 3 Tesla, so it is likely they just use Tesla chargers when needed on a trip. My guess is that most of them work just fine.
Yep, I have yet to even hear of a broken Tesla Supercharger. Also, they are the easiest to use of all (when you own a Tesla--not so much with their new Magic Dock "charge your non-Tesla"). The only button on the thing is the one that opens your Tesla charge door via wireless. All the rest, billing and all, is figured out by the charger itself. It reads the VIN number and charges your Tesla account automatically as it is charging your Tesla. Just plug in and walk away, cannot get any simpler than that. Perhaps that is what makes Tesla so popular.
But the Tesla Superchargers is my least used charger by far. It's my motorcycles that I more often need to charge on the road.
-Don- Tucson, AZ
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California... that's going to be a clown car show here very shortly.
They can't even keep the lights on and the AC running now for their people yet want to add gigawatts of load via electric cars.
Infrastructure takes decades to build up more robust, especially in that state with it's beaurocracy and the tree huggers trying to shut down anything that resembles progress.
good luck with 300 e car owners wanting to use the 10 stations in the area at an hour each, since they can 't charge at home because they been threatened with getting jacked for using electric during the 'crisis' times...
Get a bunch of solar, get a bunch of batteries, do your own stuff. The govt is NOT going to help you, support you, be there for you. If you can, stay off the grid as much as possible, it probably won't be available most of the times anyways come a year or two from now.
Aaron
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My daughter just got 16 roof-top solar panels, an Enphase 10 KWh backup battery, a new 200 amp service and a new solar-ready electrical panel at a cost of $50K USD. Not a price that most homeowners can afford and an improvement that you are never going to see an apartment owner make.
If the power goes out at my daughter's home the battery will only power appliances in the house for just a few hours, but not an electrical stove, dryer or furnace. Fortunately, they still have their laundry dryer and furnace powered by natural gas. I know California wants everyone to switch from gas to electric power, but the cost/benefit of doing so is rarely mentioned. I really feel sorry for all of the apartment dwellers in the state. Switching from ICE to EVs is really going to be tough on them when they find that they can not charge their vehicles overnight and have to go to a commercial charging station to "refuel" their cars, along with all of the other apartment dwellers in their neighborhood.
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Doesn't CA have the law that all new apartments must have so many EV charge stations? Or in CA, perhaps the problem is all the buildings are old, all the land was built on years ago in areas such as the SF Bay Area.
Even in Reno, NV all the newer apartments have J-1772 charge stations, and they work for all makes of EVs. Tesla needs a cheap adapter that used to come with the Teslas. Mine came with all types of adapters but I hear the newer ones don't.
The older apartments can be an issue with EVs.
-Don- Tucson, AZ
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You may be right about that, but any new apartment buildings being built now will only be a fraction of the number of old buildings that are currently the most (relatively) affordable places to live. And those apartment owners are not about to spend thousands of dollars installing charging stations for their residents, as well as reducing the number of parking spaces available for them, to be set aside for EV charging.
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From my apartment living days, NO the landlord is NOT going to throw thousands of dollars away to make YOU feel smug with an EV.
Parking always was at a premium too and I remember more than one kerfluffle over the years on who gets what parking space :P
What you might can do is make, or buy an extension cord with the same plug as say your dryer has on it, and just run it out the window to charge your car or something and hope you don't live in a high theft neighborhood. I know in my hood, you'll get shot real fast messing with someones car or stealing stuff, but commiefornia, not so sure.
What would be interesting is, an older building, all those cars charging, for hours on end, hmm not going to be nice on its wiring.
Aaron
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Which is why Alice's Restaurant does not allow EV charging from their old 100-amp service that powers both the restaurant and the adjacent gas station. They also are not about to pay for an L2 charging station or two as that would be too much of an expense, as well as taking away some of their parking spaces, which are solely needed during the summer.
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Which is why Alice's Restaurant does not allow EV charging from their old 100-amp service that powers both the restaurant and the adjacent gas station. They also are not about to pay for an L2 charging station or two as that would be too much of an expense, as well as taking away some of their parking spaces, which are solely needed during the summer.
I'm not sure how you deduce that. They could probably make money off a few L2 stations if they used Chargepoint since it's such a high traffic area.
100A to 200A service upgrade is going to be 6-7K, it's not that much in the grand scheme of things.
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Which is why Alice's Restaurant does not allow EV charging from their old 100-amp service that powers both the restaurant and the adjacent gas station. They also are not about to pay for an L2 charging station or two as that would be too much of an expense, as well as taking away some of their parking spaces, which are solely needed during the summer.
I'm not sure how you deduce that. They could probably make money off a few L2 stations if they used Chargepoint since it's such a high traffic area.
100A to 200A service upgrade is going to be 6-7K, it's not that much in the grand scheme of things.
The owner told me so when I asked him if they were going to install some L2 chargers a few years ago. Before that a group of Zero owners visited the restaurant, plugged into the 220V plug at the side of the gas station, shown in the attached photo, and blew out the restaurant's entire (and very old) electric system. It took several days and lots of money to repair the system. The owners were not happy. Then they put up a notice saying that EV charging is not permitted.
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100A to 200A service upgrade is going to be 6-7K, it's not that much in the grand scheme of things.
IF.. the feed to their panel is big enough. If it's say only like 4 ga wire, and not 1/0 - 4/0 or whatever CURRENT CODE... which is what they will INSIST they comply with for that upgrade says it needs to be, then it's a major deal. THe power company will probably want a piece of that as well, oh you need a bigger transformer, that's another 4500 dollars, plus labor. Then their power is out for the day, lost wages, food getting warm etc etc.
Aaron