ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: Pard on February 08, 2023, 04:24:44 AM
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Rebelle shuts off 30 miles into my ride. Started at 100% charge, bike died at 70%.
Cannot get the screen to power on, the Energica electric heartbeat LED and right rear turn signal will illuminate, weakly, for 2 seconds when pressing key on.
Towed home to garage. Bike will not power on when plugged in to charge. Heartbeat LED and right rear turn signal will illuminate for 2 seconds, then go dark.
Red immobilizer light flashing slowly every few seconds.
WTF !?
Dealer and Energica CA notified.
more than 24hrs later, still no recommendations from either.
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Rebelle shuts off 30 miles into my ride. Started at 100% charge, bike died at 70%.
Cannot get the screen to power on, the Energica electric heartbeat LED and right rear turn signal will illuminate, weakly, for 2 seconds when pressing key on.
Towed home to garage. Bike will not power on when plugged in to charge. Heartbeat LED and right rear turn signal will illuminate for 2 seconds, then go dark.
Red immobilizer light flashing slowly every few seconds.
WTF !?
Dealer and Energica CA notified.
more than 24hrs later, still no recommendations from either.
Hmmm, I wonder if you're having issues with the tiny 315ma fuse which Don had an argument with a while back..?? Worth checking I guess.
https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12287.0
Smithy.
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Hmmm, I wonder if you're having issues with the tiny 315ma fuse which Don had an argument with a while back..?? Worth checking I guess.
https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12287.0 (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12287.0)
Smithy.
Probably not, as my bike made no difference key on or off, nothing changed. Also would not charge. Was as dead as can be.
-Don- Borrego Springs, CA
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My theory is a faulty DC to DC converter. Not putting out enough voltage, but not completely dead.
Could also be a short somewhere.
Not confident this will be an easy or quick resolution.
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Video of the symptom:
https://youtu.be/-_I5rgKvQd4
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Here is some video of my ride taken shortly before the failure.
Since I was still new to the bike, I was not in an educated position to detect any abnormal sounds or operation.
Does it seem like everything is normal to you guys?
Did not capture the failure on video, unfortunately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPctsYJX2ko&t=5s
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Well, I could only hear the whine of the reduction gear. That appears to be perfectly normal.
One „incident“ I realized towards the end: There seemed to have been a bump in the ride, like you hit a pothole or similar. A small jump in the drivetrain sound - but again nothing to worry about; to be expected when riding less-than-perfect roads.
I did not notice anything unusual hinting to your observed failure. Well good luck with your dealer and pressing thumbs for a super fast repair!
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Thank you!
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Good news.
I have been contacted by Energica, that they have discussed what needs to be done, communicated with my dealer, and I should soon be contacted by my dealer for next steps.
Not sure exactly what that means, but it sounds positive!
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That almost sounds like how it behaves when you try to turn it on with the key fob out of range. it blips the screens lights for a second then shuts right back down.
Next steps is probably you bringing the bike back to the dealer, or depending how terrible it is, them sending someone to you.
Hopefully it's resolved quickly. Having infant mortality on a new bike just suxxx.
aaron
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That almost sounds like how it behaves when you try to turn it on with the key fob out of range. it blips the screens lights for a second then shuts right back down.
Next steps is probably you bringing the bike back to the dealer, or depending how terrible it is, them sending someone to you.
Hopefully it's resolved quickly. Having infant mortality on a new bike just suxxx.
aaron
Could it just be a weak FOB battery? Weak FOB batteries do weird things. For an example, my Harley cannot be started and will NOT let me put in my PIN number. The ONLY fix is to get the FOB out of range or remove the weak FOB battery (so I can enter the PIN). Or replace the battery with a new one!
And ALWAYS check NEW FOB batteries when they are installed. I have seen MANY weak NEW FOB as well as TPMS batteries. I own many vehicles with many TPMS, & FOBs and I probably find 15% of the replacement batteries to be weak when NEW. Shelf life is poor on small batteries, and it is rather random how long they will last with from same dates,
-Don- Borrego Springs, CA
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Not the FOB. Tried with the passive key (green) as well.
Dealer and Energica CA ruled out the key issue.
Dealer is picking up the bike today and they will remote diagnose with CA by waking up the CAN BUS with a computer interface and see what they find.
Stay tuned!
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Talk about gremlins in the machine!
Getting the bike ready for pickup this AM. I pressed the start button, and the bike turned on!
Nothing showed up in the diagnostic screen.
Really weird behavior.
Sat for 3 days without being able to initialize, but today it did.
Thoughts????
Maybe some capacitor was malfunctioning and need 3 days to bleed voltage to get back to a stable state?
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Talk about gremlins in the machine!
Getting the bike ready for pickup this AM. I pressed the start button, and the bike turned on!
Nothing showed up in the diagnostic screen.
Really weird behavior.
Sat for 3 days without being able to initialize, but today it did.
Thoughts????
Maybe some capacitor was malfunctioning and need 3 days to bleed voltage to get back to a stable state?
I had sort the of the same issue. Bike died at 37%, showed 0% battery in one second. It wasn't detected by my wallbox, couldn't turn it on, immobilizer didn't even blink.
2 days later, i could turn on the bike, plugged it immediatly and charged it. Then drove to the dealer. We plugged the bike to a computer and the guys in italy took control of it.
The summary of my journey is here: https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12343.0
Bike is performing flawlessly since.
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Talk about gremlins in the machine!
Getting the bike ready for pickup this AM. I pressed the start button, and the bike turned on!
Nothing showed up in the diagnostic screen.
Really weird behavior.
Sat for 3 days without being able to initialize, but today it did.
Thoughts????
Maybe some capacitor was malfunctioning and need 3 days to bleed voltage to get back to a stable state?
I had sort the of the same issue. Bike died at 37%, showed 0% battery in one second. It wasn't detected by my wallbox, couldn't turn it on, immobilizer didn't even blink.
2 days later, i could turn on the bike, plugged it immediatly and charged it. Then drove to the dealer. We plugged the bike to a computer and the guys in italy took control of it.
The summary of my journey is here: https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12343.0
Bike is performing flawlessly since.
Appreciate this very much. Will read about your experience right now.
"Range estimate takes 5 charging cycles so it's normal that it's f... at the beginning.
On my side, i start to think that my problem wasn't FW related. I had the bike shut off, showing a % of 0 (was 37% 2 seconds before). Restarted the bike, made like 10 meter and the bike died again.Got "undefinited fault" on the screen, bike couldn't be restarted, screen still black and even the red led wasn't flashing.
Pushed it to my garage (i've done sports for 2023 and beyond i think), plugged it on the wall box, bike wasn't detected. Unplugged it and thought i ll get it towed this week (got some business trips before)
Yesterday i check the bike and saw the red immobilizer led flashing, turned the bike on. Battery percentage at 0%. I plug it and it start to charge. I planed a cell balancing but the bike couldn't charge past 57% and started balancing at 57% (...) I left it plugged for hours and still the bike doesn't charge above 57%. Didn't try to drive it, i think i ll get it towed instead.
All in all i think that my problem sounds more like a faulty battery pack instead of a FW issue. I ll have more info end of the week i think and will keep you posted."
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If they replace your battery pack, I'll be happy to dispose of the old one for you, Hell i'll even pay the shipping!
Aaron
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HaHa! Your on.
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Granted that the motorcycle dealership is closed Sunday and Monday, but one week has passed and I have been unable to receive the most basic update.
They had my bike last week to start the diagnosis.
I don't think they even looked at it yet. If they did, why not share that info? Can't get a response.
I am told "we are waiting on Italy."
Service could be better. Can't really be worse at this point.
I will absolutely reverse course and sing the praise of great service if/when I see it.
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This is becoming a pathetic rant, vent thread.
However, the math is interesting.
How does one coordinate real time diagnostic sessions between Italy, California and the East Coast.
The business hours window does not overlap.
That is what my dealer has indicated is the problem at the moment. Nothing has been looked at, bike sitting in the shop for more than a week.
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I can understand your frustration. Not sure about the mindset of your dealer; however your interface is your dealer and not Modena. If his tools (Modena) only work at night, then he simply has to organize his work accordingly. Let him not explain to you why it‘s not working for him - instead challenge him to come up with a plan how he will make it work.
Certainly it is not in his interest to create disappointment with his customers.
Counter-example: I had problems with my Ribelle in 2021. My dealer (Germany) also had issues in reaching out to specialists in Modena for a diagnostic session, but this was in the 2021 aggregated by a Corona wave. He loaded my bike in his truck and drove it down to get it sorted out - Modena is some 1200km(740mls) away, so not directly around the next corner. That helped & I had my bike back in no time after 2 weeks of no progress. And we‘re talking same time zone!! Anyway, I would call this proactive problem solving.
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Excellent points, @most.
My dealer, with whom I have years of positive experience and trust, is telling me he cannot deal with Italy directly, he has to go through CA, hence the limitation.
He seems to be as frustrated as I am, and if the system in place is indeed as I am understanding it, the system can be improved.
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Granted that the motorcycle dealership is closed Sunday and Monday, but one week has passed and I have been unable to receive the most basic update.
They had my bike last week to start the diagnosis.
I don't think they even looked at it yet. If they did, why not share that info? Can't get a response.
I am told "we are waiting on Italy."
Service could be better. Can't really be worse at this point.
I will absolutely reverse course and sing the praise of great service if/when I see it.
What part of the world are you in. Sadly that sounds like the clowns down here by me :(
Hopefully you hear something soon. Don't just wait on them, be a pest, call them daily. It's real easy to blame 'Italy' for a crappy shop not having adult supervision.
Good Luck !
Aaron
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Being too aggressive often makes people dig in and provide even worse service.
Read "how to win friends and influence people"
This is a good lesson for anyone reading this thread and on the fence about what EV bike to purchase.
In theory, LiveWire with a US based company and the Harley service experience may be a better choice for performance EVs.
Without effective support, when one of these machines goes down, you are helpless.
I was drawn in by Energica's awesome pre-sale communication, which seems to end at the point of sale.
Tuition paid.
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Being too aggressive often makes people dig in and provide even worse service.
Read "how to win friends and influence people"
This is a good lesson for anyone reading this thread and on the fence about what EV bike to purchase.
In theory, LiveWire with a US based company and the Harley service experience may be a better choice for performance EVs.
Without effective support, when one of these machines goes down, you are helpless.
I was drawn in by Energica's awesome pre-sale communication, which seems to end at the point of sale.
Tuition paid.
I have a friend who owns a 20-year old Buell. He gets no respect from his H-D dealer when he wants the bike serviced or repaired. They tell him that they only have one part-time employee who is willing to work on Buells. If he wants any work done he needs to make an appointment weeks in advance so that the guy can find the time to come to the shop to work on his bike. Some shops are just like that, even H-D shops. Although I will admit that have not heard anything regarding dedicated LiveWire shops and what their service is like.
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Received a call today notifying me that the bike is unable to be diagnosed at the dealer so it is going back across country to CA.
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Received a call today notifying me that the bike is unable to be diagnosed at the dealer so it is going back across country to CA.
To the shop in SSF on Spruce Ave? A mile from where I used to live. But back then, they were in Redwood City (20 miles south of SSF).
You can be sure it will get fixed correctly that way! Probably in less time than some dealer trying to figure it out. The travel time will probably be less than that!
-Don- Auburn, CA (135 miles east of SSF)
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......For an example, my Harley cannot be started and will NOT let me put in my PIN number. The ONLY fix is to get the FOB out of range or remove the weak FOB battery (so I can enter the PIN). Or replace the battery with a new one! ....
-Don- Borrego Springs, CA
Don, I also have "many" (bikes) Harley's , what I did was coded one fob for all my bikes. I was tired of changing batteries in all those fobs, now I only have 1 fob battery to keep an eye on. Has made my life much easier and also I'm happy that my Ribelle have an oldfashion key instead of that fob stuff, that is also more in line with the lack of tpms and indicators that do not cancel automatically :P
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Received a call today notifying me that the bike is unable to be diagnosed at the dealer so it is going back across country to CA.
To the shop in SSF on Spruce Ave? A mile from where I used to live. But back then, they were in Redwood City (20 miles south of SSF).
You can be sure it will get fixed correctly that way! Probably in less time than some dealer trying to figure it out. The travel time will probably be less than that!
-Don- Auburn, CA (135 miles east of SSF)
Yes, I suppose if anyone can fix it, they can, but having a brand new bike become disabled in under 100 miles and to be without a bike for months is not a great situation.
Energica is trying to offer options to minimize the pain and demonstrate their good faith. I am impressed with that.
Energica needs to figure out a way for local dealerships to deal with all issues that may arise. Shipping a bike cross country for a fix is not a viable plan.
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Yes, I suppose if anyone can fix it, they can, but having a brand new bike become disabled in under 100 miles and to be without a bike for months is not a great situation.
Energica is trying to offer options to minimize the pain and demonstrate their good faith. I am impressed with that.
Energica needs to figure out a way for local dealerships to deal with all issues that may arise. Shipping a bike cross country for a fix is not a viable plan.
It only takes a few days to get a bike across the USA, less in most other countries. That's better than having it wait in a shop for weeks without anybody even looking at it, which is often the case with repair shops. At least you know the Energica service shop will give the best service for weird, uncommon issues.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Takes at least 2 weeks shipping each way under the current Energica outsourcing of transport. 3 weeks more likely.
Cost saving procedure I assume.
I estimate a minimum of 2 months before I see the bike again.
May just try and get a refund and order another bike. Will lose some dough but get a bike faster.
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Takes at least 2 weeks shipping each way under the current Energica outsourcing of transport. 3 weeks more likely.
Cost saving procedure I assume.
I estimate a minimum of 2 months before I see the bike again.
May just try and get a refund and order another bike. Will lose some dough but get a bike faster.
OIC, I guess for that distance they have to make arrangements & schedule with another company.
BTW, do lemon laws apply to motorcycles?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Takes at least 2 weeks shipping each way under the current Energica outsourcing of transport. 3 weeks more likely.
Cost saving procedure I assume.
I estimate a minimum of 2 months before I see the bike again.
May just try and get a refund and order another bike. Will lose some dough but get a bike faster.
OIC, I guess for that distance they have to make arrangements & schedule with another company.
BTW, do lemon laws apply to motorcycles?
-Don- Auburn, CA
Looking into the Lemon Law application in this case.
Good idea.
Not every state has motorcycle lemon laws, but there are federal laws in place.
https://www.forthepeople.com/breach-of-warranty-lawyers/motorcycle-lemon-law/
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Well, this is worrisome...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/energicaownersgroup/permalink/1325843271546441/
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Energica is swapping my bike for a new one. I am stunned by their commitment to customer satisfaction. WOW!
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WOW :o
I‘m aware of cases where they swapped the battery without any further discussion - but the complete bike…! Well… congrats!?! Is that the right response?!?
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Amazing response. Blown away. Right response from my perspective. Smart investment in brand loyalty and reputation.
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I am happy to hear that Energica is resolving your issue in this way. It really is in the interest of the manufacturer, especially one that is "new" and expanding. I believe Lemon Laws apply to motorcycles too, having had to research the topic for a Ducati I had that became an endless problem, which included catching fire. Lucky Ducati bought it back before I had to sue. It took firm, respectful pressure, research, and a helpful dealer supplying me with internal email addresses. The tide changed after I quoted the service rep's resume to the President at the time: "...maximizes manufacturer's profits when negotiating with dissatisfied owners..." Funny the things you can find on the internet...
Being without that motorcycle for almost a year was a tremendous disappointment, although I had others to ride. Being new to Energica and EV's has me concerned enough without having to worry about being stranded. Not regretting my purchase, but possibly the choice of keyless option haha. One thing I do have, that has saved me in the past, is towing on my full coverage insurance.
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Swap the whole bike? Yeah, WOW!
If Zero reacted that way when I got trouble with a faulty SR/F I would still own a Zero.
In a German moto forum I read about a Zero owner waiting more than 6 months for a new battery. Five years warranty on the battery is worth S**T when they are not willing to act on it!
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In a German moto forum I read about a Zero owner waiting more than 6 months for a new battery. Five years warranty on the battery is worth S**T when they are not willing to act on it!
A few years ago, I had my battery replaced while in warranty on my 2017 Zero DS 6.5KWH. They replaced that battery with a 7.2 KWH at no cost to me. It was in the shop for perhaps three weeks. I would say that is reasonable. I had no complaints at all. That was at Eurocycles here in Reno. (https://inventory.rideeurocycle.com/--inventory?make=zero&pg=1)
-Don- Reno, NV
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That was a good experience you had with Zero.
I found Zero to be disinterested in my continued business.
Strange choice for any small company in an emerging and competitive industry to treat customers in an adversarial manner. I suppose, once a certain scale of business is achieved, the culture changes.
Energica seems to have extraordinary concern for my positive experience. Willing to risk money, time and energy with a company like that.
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Energica seems to have extraordinary concern for my positive experience. Willing to risk money, time and energy with a company like that.
It's more about the potential hazards that can result from a battery module that is out of spec and the tarnish to reputation for delivering a safe product. One of the cost cutting measures EV makers take to counteract material cost increase is reduced effort / concern for cell grading which mitigates the kind of issue that is likely at play with this defect. No proof of anything, just a guess based on industry trends strugling to make profit.
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Another way to look at it is.
Replacing your bike.
A. Really is the right thing to do, so they can get the old one back and do a full review to find out exactly where root point of failure is.
B. Keeps YOU and everyone else you talk to happy, saying WOW what awesome customer service. It's essentialy free advertising.
C. That thing catches on fire, and it hits the national lamestream news. ENERGICA MOTORCYCLE CATCHES FIRE !!!!!
how damaging is that to their rep and future sales. Especially when there are so many mouth breathers in today's society who'd see a headline like that and never ever consider Energica ever again.
They did the right thing for the right reasons.
Also, yah it sucks when you have something brand new and it dies. Sometimes components just fail, Energica got it bad, you can't tell with electronics, it ran for a few hours then died. Infant mortality while crappy, does happen. I had a brand new XRF I paid almost 40k for die after about 30 minutes of use. Solid state thingamajig went bad on the HV side. Typically these things take a day or two to calibrate, so it was being used for a bit before being sent to me. Sometimes this stuff just happens. The important thing is that THEY SEE THIS TOO, and are not playing games, are saying, here, take a new bike, get back on the street, and we'll figure this out on our time w/o hindering you.
I wish Bruker would learn this lesson.
Aaron
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In 2018, a few 2012 Zero's caught on fire while charging. Zero recalled the entire year's produiction of S and DS models and bought them back for cash. So you are right. No EV manufacturer want their vehicle to catch of fire for any reason.
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My new Rebelle arrived at dealer. Will pick it up this week. Hope I have better luck this time.
If it survives 500 miles, will be looking to put on OZ forged aluminum wheels and Ohlins suspension to compare.
Hearing rumors that Energica of New England is working on an alternate design for a suspension that outperforms and comes in at a lower price point to Ohlins.
That would be interesting indeed.
Also heard he was recruited by Energica to help work on the Rebelle Hooligan bike at Daytona. That is impressive cred.
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Enjoying the new bike. Despite the weight, the bike is easily maneuvered even on demanding twisty sections.
Some of my favorite terrain here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvATqCrA5WQ
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I just love the sound the bike makes!!!
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Once you got the bike going a bit it's pretty manageable. What sucks ASS is being in stop and go traffic for MILES. Of course it moves right at the speed that is right on the threshold of self balancing and wobbltee whoops. The other day i was stuck at a train crossing for 30 minutes (F you CSX, you bite donkey #^%# ). Eventually I just threw the kick stand down and sat. Harley rider was in front of me so I moved up and we started chatting. Cold day out, temp was like 34 degrees, I wanted to run in the cold see how it behaved capacity wise...anyways, after a while he's complaining his hands are cold, he didn't have gloves, so I told him, here, I got heated grips, just grab on and warm your hands. Another awesome thing about the bike I am seeing as time goes on and I use them more!
The sound of the bike is kind of neat and instead of engine revvs I am learning to tell the speed and what you are 'up to' by motor whine. Only diff is, it's easier on the E bike because you are not shifting gears, so you learn it once, it's ALWAYS the same, no. oh wait what gear you in stuff.
I find that when in twisty turns like that, I do best when I don't think about them, just do them! The bike will learn you where you need to be and she'll bring you right back up again, providing you ain't gittin stoopid with it :D
aaron