ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: BigPoppa on January 20, 2023, 04:24:43 AM
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https://www.teslarati.com/electric-motorcycle-energica-sales-2022/
One of the comments indicated the poster would buy an electric bike when he could do 200 miles @ 80mph. I don't think there's more than a dozen or so ICE models across all manufacturers that can do that and most of them are touring bikes that are physically larger and weigh more than any of the Energica line. Even my Triumph Trophy and BMW R1200RT would/will only get around 160 miles or so at a steady 80mph.
Sometimes I think the nay sayers set unrealistic benchmark just to be difficult.
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The one that gets me is all the crybabies, oh I towed a 10k load and my range cut in half.
Well gee, what did you expect moron?
You show me ONE ICE, where when you load the crap out of it, it gets the same mileage as it does empty? you show me one chevy, ford, dodge, that when you are towing a big trailer on it, the mileage does not drop down into the toilet. But we'll pretend that don't happen because we just want to bash electric vehicles.
I bet when the ICEs first came out, all the horse and buggy merchants were telling you that, oh ice farts are toxic unlike the organic exhaust fumes from a horse. Engines are terrible. Same twisted propaganda, just a century or so later down the road.
Id also like to see a regular vehicle that does not also suffer mileage loss when you are doing 80.
How many people broke their arms or lost teeth crank starting their ICE's back in the day? You can find pretty much any and everything to whine about with any technology if that's all you want to do about it, especially when the tech is still emerging.
Aaron
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https://www.teslarati.com/electric-motorcycle-energica-sales-2022/
One of the comments indicated the poster would buy an electric bike when he could do 200 miles @ 80mph. I don't think there's more than a dozen or so ICE models across all manufacturers that can do that and most of them are touring bikes that are physically larger and weigh more than any of the Energica line. Even my Triumph Trophy and BMW R1200RT would/will only get around 160 miles or so at a steady 80mph.
Sometimes I think the nay sayers set unrealistic benchmark just to be difficult.
I have a friend who rides a F800ST that says exactly the same thing. He says that when electric motorcycles will travel for 200 miles at 80 mph on a single charge then he will buy one.
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I have a friend who rides a F800ST that says exactly the same thing. He says that when electric motorcycles will travel for 200 miles at 80 mph on a single charge then he will buy one.
And it has to cost under $5k.
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The one that gets me is all the crybabies, oh I towed a 10k load and my range cut in half.
Well gee, what did you expect moron?
You show me ONE ICE, where when you load the crap out of it, it gets the same mileage as it does empty? you show me one chevy, ford, dodge, that when you are towing a big trailer on it, the mileage does not drop down into the toilet. But we'll pretend that don't happen because we just want to bash electric vehicles.
I bet when the ICEs first came out, all the horse and buggy merchants were telling you that, oh ice farts are toxic unlike the organic exhaust fumes from a horse. Engines are terrible. Same twisted propaganda, just a century or so later down the road.
Id also like to see a regular vehicle that does not also suffer mileage loss when you are doing 80.
How many people broke their arms or lost teeth crank starting their ICE's back in the day? You can find pretty much any and everything to whine about with any technology if that's all you want to do about it, especially when the tech is still emerging.
Aaron
And back in the day early motorcycles needed "light pedal assist" when going up hills. That "light pedal assist" caused more than one heart attack.
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I have a friend who rides a F800ST that says exactly the same thing. He says that when electric motorcycles will travel for 200 miles at 80 mph on a single charge then he will buy one.
And it has to cost under $5k.
Sorry, I forgot about that. ;)
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It's not a totally unrealistic expectation, although it is slightly hyperbolic. The issue of course is that EVs are perceived to need longer ranges than ICE equivalents because of the lengthy and unreliable charging requirements, where an ICE just pops in 4 gallons in and is on its way for another 160 miles in 10 minutes.
I think the sea change in attitude will be when EV bikes genuinely do reach parity with ICE in actual range - which means 160 miles at 80mph. Or, by my back-of-a-fag-packet calcs, about 30kWH in the battery. This is doable with today's tech and would make for bikes about the same weight as a Goldwing (where it would actually make reasonable sense).
Cas :)
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I'd love to see a range test withe Brutus V9 with the 33.7 kWh battery and see how close it can come to the 200 mile mark. http://brutusmotorcycle.com/brutusV9.html
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it would have to exist first
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My benchmark is also 200 miles so I could go on local group rides that typically last 130-180 miles. 200 miles really means 120 to 150 miles. The Mt. Hamilton loop is 180 miles. And I'm not going to ask 10 people to make a stop at a charger for an hour.
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You show me ONE ICE, where when you load the crap out of it, it gets the same mileage as it does empty? you show me one chevy, ford, dodge, that when you are towing a big trailer on it, the mileage does not drop down into the toilet. But we'll pretend that don't happen because we just want to bash electric vehicles.
I agree, but to be fair to the crybabies the reduced range when pulling a load isn't as inconvenient with an ICE as it's only a quick stop to refuel.
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Reading this article I am asking myself wether Energica is not stretching themselves thin.
They supplied 88 bikes for the G20 summit in Bali last year and expanded their sales net while still being involved in the E-moto-GP.
Looking at currently ongoing topics (Experias delivered late, not answering e-mails, botched updates, disfunctionsal webshop) in this forum and elsewhere, I am afraid that they reduced their concern about people already owning their bikes. Zero has gone that way and I really hope I am wrong.
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Call the USA office of Energica in CA. I am able to reach the CEO, Stefano Benatti, easily by phone. He picks up the phone on the first ring when I call the office!
Very responsive by text as well to that same number.
Nothing like Zero. World apart in my experience so far.
ENERGICA SALES AND SERVICE CENTER
tel. +1 415 243-6355
170 S. Spruce, Unit D
South San Francisco, CA 94080
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https://www.teslarati.com/electric-motorcycle-energica-sales-2022/
One of the comments indicated the poster would buy an electric bike when he could do 200 miles @ 80mph. I don't think there's more than a dozen or so ICE models across all manufacturers that can do that and most of them are touring bikes that are physically larger and weigh more than any of the Energica line. Even my Triumph Trophy and BMW R1200RT would/will only get around 160 miles or so at a steady 80mph.
Sometimes I think the nay sayers set unrealistic benchmark just to be difficult.
Someone called :D ?
I've made similar comments in this forum many times and I stand by them.
Plenty of bikes do >200mi at 80mph, as long as they have a basic fairing and a 20L fuel tank; my current ICE bike, a Yamaha Tracer 900. does 360km / 224mi at 90 mph, on a a 18L tank. With panniers and a top case.
And it's hardly a heavyweight tourer, weighing in at 210kg / 463lbs wet. In fact, actual tourers usually have measly range because of gigantic curb weight (Goldwings are completely unfit-for-purpose, as many models of the past few decades can only legally carry ~40kg beyond two average US adults + basic safety gear).
The Yamaha TDM900 allrounder a friend had until recently did 400km+ on its tank at the same speed.
When I graduated from 400cc bikes to middleweights in the early 1990s, the rule-of-thumb was "for day- or multiday road trips, the minimum range is 200mi at motorway speeds (75-80mph)"
The stupid trend in the past 10 years to bad-aero naked bikes with 14L tanks isn't for actual riders.
The reason is simple:
To be able to join a group or club ride, the basic req is:
-- Ride ~100-125mi "administrative" motorway riding at 140 km/h, to get from the crowded, flat center of the country to the actual riding roads;
-- Ride ~150-200mi of sweepers/twisties in the mountains, at speeds ranging from 40mph to 70mph (mostly 50-60mph);
-- Ride ~100-125mi back home on the motorway, ditto at 140 km/h.
This is the case here, despite having a small country, and was no different when I lived in Boston in the early 1990s.
That's a total of up to 350-450mi / 500-650km of riding in a day.
Such trips typically include a long (1hr) lunch stop, during which one could DC-charge... If there were any DC charging stations along scenic roads, which there aren't hereabouts. None whatsoever.
Public AC L2 chargers are also rare-to-nonexistent in sparsely populated areas, where the good riding roads are (they're almost all in urban/suburban shopping malls here).
If an e-motorcycle could do 200mi at the required speed, I would be able to do a shortish day trips alone or with a couple of BEV-owning friends, charging twice at 12kW / 45min at public chargers en route (assuming the bike can maintain 12kW @230AC for the duration).
Any group ride with an ICE bike would still be out.
But, that's very far away, let alone at any reasonable weight (~220kg) and the e-motorcycle manufacturers don't even seem to be focusing on good aero at this point.
So, until BEV motorcycles can do 200mi at 80mph, they're only good for commuting or offroading if you can tow them to a legal ofroad area.
They're not an option for me or anyone I know for general use/touring/sport-touring/adventure-touring (noone here can afford to own 2 motorcycles), and the world sales numbers seem to bear that.
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I think many people here can afford to own 2 motorcycles, and in fact do.
If you got 20 to 30k for an e bike, you can throw a little extra chum in the water for a gas bike too if you must.
If you are one of these folks who buys the e bike and has to eat ramen noodles 4 times a week to be able to afford it, well, that's on you.
How many people here remember window 3.0? 3.1 3.11 WFW, etc. Probably less than 10 percent of you snot nosed kids do. Better yet, let's do an apple IIe running Dos 3.3, or Prodos?
Remember all the problems they had with not being able to 'this and that', but you stuck with computers anyways, and guess what, in a few years
other systems came out, better OS' came out, updates were made that made it so it COULD do 'this and that' now.
Same way with bikes, they are getting better and better every year. No they may not be able to 'this and that' quite yet, but there are many things they CAN do and do well.
But GEE, it doesn't have a crappucino machine in the left pannier that lets me pour myself a double crappa cappa mocha pooftie mooker to go with my olive toast. (Im working on that !!! ) :o ::)
With all this yapping about E this and E that, it's going to be years anyways because the electrical infrastructure just is NOT ready, no matter which idiot currently in charge thinks. But THIS right here, is where the solar panels on your home and a battery bank will really shine! Store the electricity up by day and charge your bike up at night when you are at home, enjoying your double crappa cappa since you can't on your bike.
Life is too short to be constantly bitching about what you don't have, or can't have yet, enjoy what you Do have currently before it's too late to enjoy anything anymore.
Aaron
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In my one and only college computer class I had to learn how to program using punch cards on an IBM mainframe computer using a programing language. Was it FORTRAN? I can't quite recall. I was not very good at it as I always made at least one punch card mistake and I could never discover what I did wrong. :-[
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In my one and only college computer class I had to learn how to program using punch cards on an IBM mainframe computer using a programing language. Was it FORTRAN? I can't quite recall. I was not very good at it as I always made at least one punch card mistake and I could never discover what I did wrong. :-[
Fortran, Basic, Cobol, Pasqual were the main languages of the day. Ah yes the old IBM mainframe, which was their competition to the digital PDP 11 series'
Punch cards were SOOO fun, especially if you got them out of sequence. They guy next to you being a jerk? knock his stack of cards over :D
Aaron
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In my one and only college computer class I had to learn how to program using punch cards on an IBM mainframe computer using a programing language. Was it FORTRAN? I can't quite recall. I was not very good at it as I always made at least one punch card mistake and I could never discover what I did wrong. :-[
Fortran, Basic, Cobol, Pasqual were the main languages of the day. Ah yes the old IBM mainframe, which was their competition to the digital PDP 11 series'
Punch cards were SOOO fun, especially if you got them out of sequence. They guy next to you being a jerk? knock his stack of cards over :D
Aaron
Pascal, not "Pasqual" (named after the French mathematician).
And it was never a main language, but a language developed for teaching programming, and purposely limited because of that. All the commercial versions needed lots of additions to make it remotely useful. Virtually no commercial SW was ever written in it.
And DEC's PDP series were all minicomputers, not competition in any way, shape or form to IBM mainframe "big iron" (the S/360 and descendants).
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I think many people here can afford to own 2 motorcycles, and in fact do.
And did you stop and think why that is?
Virtually only in the US, where you primarily use motorcycles as toys, not transportation. And it's telling that virtually noone in the Forum owns an e-motorcycle without also a garageful of ICE bikes... When e-motorcycle repairs commonly take months, that's a necessity.
If you got 20 to 30k for an e bike, you can throw a little extra chum in the water for a gas bike too if you must.
If you are one of these folks who buys the e bike and has to eat ramen noodles 4 times a week to be able to afford it, well, that's on you.
Ah, yes, more entitled American exceptionalism.
Base price for an Experia is $38K here, in a country where average salaries are 30% lower than in the US and taxation far higher.
Same way with bikes, they are getting better and better every year. No they may not be able to 'this and that' quite yet, but there are many things they CAN do and do well.
What can they do except commuting, pray tell?
No e-motorcycle can do any kind of road trip yet, as I outlined. Not together with gas bikes. Otherwise, why of you think no large manufacturers have gotten into the act yet (the H-D is a sales joke because charging ability and price)? The largest e-motorcycle vendor, Zero, is still a startup selling in the low 4 digits per year, globally.
Those sales numbers are no accident
But GEE, it doesn't have a crappucino machine in the left pannier that lets me pour myself a double crappa cappa mocha pooftie mooker to go with my olive toast. (Im working on that !!! ) :o ::)
Right back at you, asshole.
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PLEASE GUYS! DON'T MAKE THIS FORUM TOXIC!
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Play nice please ladies..!! ;)
Smithy.
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I continued riding with my group in Germany after I bought an Energica. We are 2 Energicas in the group. Charging we plan carfully at coffee/lunch stops and riding highway we do alone. With the 13.4 battery it was just manageable. Consumption on twisties is quite ok, but long straights were painful.
Now with: 1. increased charging network and 2. the EMCE Ribelle with 21,5 battery, the leverage is double. Also more multiple (EnBW, Ionity, Fastned) CCS stations appear in Germany and if needs be, Autobahn stations can be approached via the back road.
In my group we never rode 650km collectively in one day, as some drivers barely made 300km twisties/hairpins without mistakes in the end of the day.
So that said, on topic, nice news for Energica, good press, but they still urgently need to work on improving their software. This morning I accidentally flipped the kill switch and couldn't reactivate the bike while driving, because "Key not in range". I had to stop on the narrow shoulder lane. Just an example.
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So that said, on topic, nice news for Energica, good press, but they still urgently need to work on improving their software. This morning I accidentally flipped the kill switch and couldn't reactivate the bike while driving, because "Key not in range". I had to stop on the narrow shoulder lane. Just an example.
Hello fellow German, where are you located? NRW here 8)
Your problem with the kill switch I know too well, in my case it was clumislly reaching for the cruise control button with thick gloves. No restart possible without stopping first. Quite dangerous!
Or maybe this is why it's called kill switch ::)
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So that said, on topic, nice news for Energica, good press, but they still urgently need to work on improving their software. This morning I accidentally flipped the kill switch and couldn't reactivate the bike while driving, because "Key not in range". I had to stop on the narrow shoulder lane. Just an example.
Hello fellow German, where are you located? NRW here 8)
Your problem with the kill switch I know too well, in my case it was clumislly reaching for the cruise control button with thick gloves. No restart possible without stopping first. Quite dangerous!
Or maybe this is why it's called kill switch ::)
I'm from the Netherlands, Leiden area, but Germany and Luxemburg are favourite places to ride. Last year September it was NRW actually, charged in Lieschensruh, Bad Fredeburg and Finnentrop. Exactly the situation with the CC and winter gloves indeed.
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PLEASE GUYS! DON'T MAKE THIS FORUM TOXIC!
absolutely agree with this statement. No need to start personal attacks because someone dared disagree with ones opinion.
Aaron
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So that said, on topic, nice news for Energica, good press, but they still urgently need to work on improving their software. This morning I accidentally flipped the kill switch and couldn't reactivate the bike while driving, because "Key not in range". I had to stop on the narrow shoulder lane. Just an example.
THIS right here. What even IS Key in range to them? does it have to be an inch from the button, 6 inches, how far? I have had similar instances where I am doing something and that message comes up and im like, it's in my pocket, 6 inches from the stupid sensor FFS! If they want to be that anal about it, how about putting a fake key hole in the button or something so we can put it 'in range' ... at which point, whats the point of keyless anymore?
Aaron
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Yesterday I had just started up my BMW R1200RS with its keyless starting, locking and gas cap opening ::) system. As it was idling, I walked away from the bike and when I returned I noticed that a yellow warning light was on the dash. As I got closer, the light went off. So I assume that light indicated that the key fob was out of range. That key fob sensing distance on my BMW would appear to be about three feet.
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I didn't look that closely to see if any other warnings came up when the key is not around. Still very new with the bike and learning where all the goodies and stuffzz is at in the menu's etc.
This does sound like something I really should check out though, play around and see if I can figure out what is the range on fob sensing. Im pretty sure a lot of stuff can affect it's range too, but we'll see here soon nuff!
Aaron
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I have one other bike in my garage and it's done *maybe* 100 miles since I got my Ribelle a little over a year ago. I have in fact just agreed to sell it to a friend so I'll be 100% electric now.
I'm past range anxiety and into range confidence. I've gone out on rides with friends, toured around Europe, done alpine passes with a 100 litre bag strapped transverse on the seat, rode in the dead of winter and the height of summer, had screaming sessions at broken chargers in Germany, cursed my idiocy for scheduling a long autobahn haul, ... I could go on. Suffice to say after a hair under 10,000 miles my opinion is the range is "enough". Could be better, but it does the job, I'll take faster *more consistent* charging over more range.
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Hence my choice of SR/F with charge tank ;) Though if I could afford a Ribelle I'd buy one in a heartbeat...
Cas :)
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PLEASE GUYS! DON'T MAKE THIS FORUM TOXIC!
absolutely agree with this statement. No need to start personal attacks because someone dared disagree with ones opinion.
Aaron
Pretty disingenuous as you started the personal attacks.
{/end}
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Hopefully you get there one day. I only had mine for a very little time and I am falling in love with it. Still have a LOT to learn about riding it, riding in general but the whole electric concept, with the fact i got solar panels all over at my place, yah, it's cool.
Aaron,
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Hopefully you get there one day. I only had mine for a very little time and I am falling in love with it. Still have a LOT to learn about riding it, riding in general but the whole electric concept, with the fact i got solar panels all over at my place, yah, it's cool.
Aaron,
Let's close this unproductive side discussion by agreeing to disagree...
I do hope you enjoy riding your bike, and above all, I wish you safe riding (as the oldtimers used to call it, "Rubber side down")!
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wavelet i am, not even talking to you, I am talking to the other person who said they wish they could afford a ribelle.
please, stop
thank you
aaron